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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST |
On March 09 2012 13:37 vOdToasT wrote:The sad thing is that I have a screenshot of Rotterdam calling me a faggot when I beat him with roach hydra, but no one cares about that, because it's ok to hate gays, but it's not ok to hate black people. 
This is not the same discussion, and here https://twitter.com/#!/ottersareneat/status/177964162113224705
It's in the banner...
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I'm pretty dissapointed that this happened. People deserve 2nd chances especially when the unfortunately poor comments they made were far in the past and they have since then proven themselves professional. I love idrA but if you hold Orb to these high standards you must hold all of your team members to these standards and terminate all with past transgressions. Anything less would be hypocritical.
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On March 09 2012 13:39 matiK23 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 13:33 oBlade wrote:On March 09 2012 13:31 matiK23 wrote:On March 09 2012 13:27 13_Doomblaze_37 wrote:On March 09 2012 13:15 EcksperT wrote:
I don't know what exactly caused the outrage... but I do not think it had anything to do with the community's "core values." Look no further than Destiny defending the fact that he says "nigger" and those who championed him for that or no one caring when HuK said it on twitter to his tens of thousands of followers. This is not a proud day. There was no comcomitance of morals amongst Starcraft Players. I believe this incident was nothing more than people creating drama for the sake of drama. This is an insightful post. Do you guys remember the SotG where Destiny and InControl spent 2 hours talking about how the term "nigger" became a generic insult? That was met with some controversy, but the fact is that nigger doesn't mean what it used to. Stop treating it like it does It's what people say when they rage, not when they want to insult a black guy. Same with faggot. Treating orb this way this just reinforces the stigma associated with the words, when it shouldn't even exist anymore. Orb lied. that should be the reason why you fired him, not because hes been calling people niggers and faggots since the beta. You lost a passionate caster today EG, and while you gained some fans, you lost quite a few as well. I'm not mad a EG, I understand that they needed to do this from a business standpoint to appease the masses. I find it hard to believe that nobody from EG had ever tuned into one of orbs streams before where he swears, because its rather frequent. Rather, I think that nobody from EG cared. I'm mad at the starcraft and reddit community. Nobody gives a fuck if orb calls someone a nigger on the stream. If they do, then why does destiny have free reign to do it whenever he wants to? Nobody gives a fuck if orb calls someone a faggot on his stream. If they do, then why does Idra have free reign to do it whenever he wants to? You guys helped ruin someone's life today, I hope you're happy with it. So then without the protection of your computer monitor, tomorrow, go say nigger in the real world, instead of your delusional, sheltered world. Set an example, start a revolution. I don't understand your point. Are you surprised that the real world is more conservative than the free internet, or do you think nobody ever says "nigger" outside of the internet - in which case we'd have a hard time explaining why the word exists if nobody uses it. What part don't you understand? The poster said "nigger isn't what it used to meant" which implies that it could be freely used in everyday conversation. So I'm telling him to start using it. Lead by example, if that is how he truly feels. And why would I be surprised that the real world is more conservative, I don't understand what YOUR point is.
You know you were being condescending. For all you know, he already says it in the real world, because to many of us these things aren't a big deal - that is, words aren't something to be afraid of.
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How are the people in this thread comparing Idra's profanity to Orb's? How are the two situations even remotely the same? The word "nigger" is an automatic career-ender for a public figure in almost all situations of use. The word "faggot" is not.
And is there any good reasons for that ? No. That's pure double standard, this whole drama is just artificial, i dont see anything remotely choking here, orb was mad, he spouted insult, it happen all the time.
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On March 09 2012 13:07 unit wrote:
i agree with the decision but i just have one question
has idra seriously never made any similar comments over the years?
I have watched Idra over many years and I have never seen him say anything in this context. What orb said is not professional. I don't think he was being out wordly racist, but his words do tarnish everything he represents as a whole. It's a stigma he will carry omongist the commity for the rest of his life.
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I wonder if the Cade avatar approves?
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On March 09 2012 13:28 Mafs wrote:
No one in our culture used "faggot" or "nigger" they way they are meant to be used. "Nigger" no longer refers to black people. It's just an insult that is meant to represent someone who is a obnoxious asshole who thinks he isn't. "Faggot" represents someone who is just as annoying as a "Nigger" but doesn't care if he is or isn't an asshole.
People who keep trying to bring racism back to words that used to used as slurs against groups, when in the context used it doesn't even mention anyone who is gay or black. The only people are are truly racists are those that use those words in they way racists used them 50 years ago. Language changes, and if you can't accept that then you are a idiot. Because then faggot isn't a slur for black people, its a bundle of sticks
How about you just don't use the N word in general, you can avoid all trouble if you do. Also I noticed you're from Canada, we have specific laws prohibiting discrimination on race, and I'm pretty sure if someone in the media was to use the N word and then try to defend it with "language changes" or by trying to say that the context of use wasn't meant in any form of harm, that person would still be held liable and most likely dismissed from his/her job. I feel that the word has a history behind it that can't be changed, I think you should just be smart and don't use it.
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On March 09 2012 13:40 RJGooner wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 13:34 Chill wrote:
Ugh. My head is just empty. What a dumb situation. Could you elaborate a bit more Chill? I'd be interested to hear your views on the situation.
I just realized the same thing, WHY THE EFF AM I HERE... It also helped that my GF asked what I was doing and I realized I was arguing on the internet... and tried to explain that to her and realized how dumb this is.... peace!
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On March 09 2012 13:38 Redmark wrote:
I don't know how people can say things like "obviously just a PR move". Fucking duh? It's Evil Geniuses, for god's sake. The team with IdrA and Incontrol on it, ever since SC2 started. The team involved in the Puma drama and the Huk drama and all that. The team with the most marketing of all the teams.
Of course it's a PR move. If you didn't want PR, maybe you should have been following Incredible Miracle or the KSL or other such drama-free organizations.
Though I find it funny that this happened after the whole fighting game Cross Assault drama. It's a small world, huh.
IIRC nobody lost a job over Cross Assault drama, despite it being even worse than this. That makes their community worse because it is more accepting of disrespecting people.
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This whole situation seems blown out of proportion. Some redditors find evidence of orb being extra BM, and then everyone wants to see him punished basically for saying some bad words while laddering? I'm sure everyone has said something they regret, or normally wouldn't say in person when they are angry and behind the safety of a computer screen. Sure, orb may be a more aggressive case of this, but to fire him over these past actions? If anything, he should have just been told to knock it off or something. So now is it fair to look into everyone's past and if they behaved inappropriately fire them? If anyone is legitimately offended by orb's behavior, does him being fired actually make you feel any better?
Seems like everyone just wanted to hop on the hate orb bandwagon, as if proving that he did say these words would change the world or something. People just want drama and to feel like they are doing something with the community. If you actually were offended by orb's comments, you would be better off contacting him and letting him know, not watching his stream or supporting him, and basically just not supporting his career as a caster. I feel bad for the guy, it really did become a witch hunt all over a simple little reddit post. If anything, this should just be a lesson to other people interested in making a name for themselves in the scene that if you have a bad past you better keep it covered up or it could come back to negatively affect you. Anyway, just my .02.
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Calgary25996 Posts
Don't worry everyone, in 2 days everyone will forget about this and move on to the next stupid drama. Jesus.
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Wow, just made a topic about orb getting fired and huK not when huK says the n word all the time on his stream. Sad hypocrites eg is.
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On March 09 2012 13:38 pugowar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 13:34 Gamegene wrote:
"@ottersareneat do you scold Idra then for using "faggot" during his streams and games? Not sure why he gets special treatment and Orb doesnt"
"@beesinyoface yes, i do. every time it happens, he hears from me. have you noticed it happening recently? if you have, let me know."
i doubt idra gives whiny excuses. he admits he is foul mouthed. Again - so as long as you "man up" as your initial reaction you can say anything you want to?
Admitting your mistakes gets you out of a lot of bad places. People, especially people who are your superiors want honesty.
And this is pure speculation on my part but I think IdrA makes a conscious effort to restrain himself whenever he gets mad.
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The funny thing about the word "nigger" is that it seems to offend white people more than black people. To all the people in support of Alex's view point (and to Alex himself), what are your opinions on black rappers/comedians/people using the word freely and without consequence?
Call a black guy "nigger" IRL and be prepared for an assbeating. That's all there is to say about that. They find it very offensive.
Now, blacks do call their friends "nigga" sometimes but that word is different. My black friends will say to me "what up my nigga?" and I'll say it to them if I know they're cool with it. But I wouldn't say "my nigga" to a black guy I didn't know.
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Wow we never change it's always about comparing with others ex : -orb- this and idra that.
The neighbors grass is greener then mine...
We can't just focus on what happened and why. We have to involve others.
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very well written, tho i disagree with the whole "NEVER would use or type it for any reason", context is everything and by giving it a mystical taboo, your just giving it more power.
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what a joke, i guess you guys don't pay attention to what your actual players say on stream, or even in god damn tournaments.
everyone is making an example out of orb when 99.9% of the community has said equal to far worse things to each other.
you guys basically ruined a kid who grew up in the internet cultures career over some silly ladder rage, a team with incontrol, and idra on the banner.
jesus imagine if we all spent hours a day going through old vods and forum posts of those two over the last years like people did with orb.
joke city, fake pr bullshit.
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On March 09 2012 13:39 matiK23 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 13:33 oBlade wrote:On March 09 2012 13:31 matiK23 wrote:On March 09 2012 13:27 13_Doomblaze_37 wrote:On March 09 2012 13:15 EcksperT wrote:
I don't know what exactly caused the outrage... but I do not think it had anything to do with the community's "core values." Look no further than Destiny defending the fact that he says "nigger" and those who championed him for that or no one caring when HuK said it on twitter to his tens of thousands of followers. This is not a proud day. There was no comcomitance of morals amongst Starcraft Players. I believe this incident was nothing more than people creating drama for the sake of drama. This is an insightful post. Do you guys remember the SotG where Destiny and InControl spent 2 hours talking about how the term "nigger" became a generic insult? That was met with some controversy, but the fact is that nigger doesn't mean what it used to. Stop treating it like it does It's what people say when they rage, not when they want to insult a black guy. Same with faggot. Treating orb this way this just reinforces the stigma associated with the words, when it shouldn't even exist anymore. Orb lied. that should be the reason why you fired him, not because hes been calling people niggers and faggots since the beta. You lost a passionate caster today EG, and while you gained some fans, you lost quite a few as well. I'm not mad a EG, I understand that they needed to do this from a business standpoint to appease the masses. I find it hard to believe that nobody from EG had ever tuned into one of orbs streams before where he swears, because its rather frequent. Rather, I think that nobody from EG cared. I'm mad at the starcraft and reddit community. Nobody gives a fuck if orb calls someone a nigger on the stream. If they do, then why does destiny have free reign to do it whenever he wants to? Nobody gives a fuck if orb calls someone a faggot on his stream. If they do, then why does Idra have free reign to do it whenever he wants to? You guys helped ruin someone's life today, I hope you're happy with it. So then without the protection of your computer monitor, tomorrow, go say nigger in the real world, instead of your delusional, sheltered world. Set an example, start a revolution. I don't understand your point. Are you surprised that the real world is more conservative than the free internet, or do you think nobody ever says "nigger" outside of the internet - in which case we'd have a hard time explaining why the word exists if nobody uses it. What part don't you understand? The poster said "nigger isn't what it used to meant" which implies that it could be freely used in everyday conversation. So I'm telling him to start using it. Lead by example, if that is how he truly feels. And why would I be surprised that the real world is more conservative, I don't understand what YOUR point is.
I'd make a case for faggot not meaning what it used to, but nigger still very much does. Either way I concede that faggot perpetuates homophobia, and therefore shouldn't be used. But I've still used it. It's bad that I used it for that reason, not that I personally hate gay people.
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I found this statement unusually insightful. I agree that racism as a political and philosophical belief is pretty much dead in mainstream society, but that racial-based denigration and stereotyping still continues to an alarming extent. Furthermore, I agree that the Starcraft community should not tolerate racist language from professional broadcasts, period, just as it should not tolerate obscenity and sexual harassment as is far too often found on the Internet. In the time I've been on TL, I've seen, thanks to the mods, much improvement in the community in this regard, and I hope, as the community grows, it will continue to mature as well.
Godspeed, gentlemen!
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that same "amazing" community was the one who caused this shitstorm, was the one who contacted the sponsors, and was the one who made orb go stupid about lying to his employer and get himself fired
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EPT
