EPTOrb Dismissed from Evil Geniuses Broadcasts - Page 24
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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038 Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST | ||
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casualman
United States1198 Posts
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oogieogie
United States3657 Posts
On March 09 2012 13:29 ExoTau wrote: I agree with the decision and the statement. My question is what happens if reddit starts digging the NUMEROUS f----t I saw on Idra's stream? | ||
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Roky
United States2 Posts
Edit: I don't fully support the decision to fire Orb, except for the fact he blatantly lied about it. I just think it's ridiculous how stereotypical for a company his response is and how in awe of it everyone is acting. As well as saying he feels the same way about the word faggot as he does the word nigger, but doesn't enforce the same punishment for people using a word he views as comparable. The only reason that's the case is because of money and the fact people didn't email his sponsors about that other word (which he apparently feels just as strongly about). | ||
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Rocor
United States55 Posts
It seems from the OP that EG's CEO has a much deeper aversion to the N word compared to the other lightning words. I agree with this view and find the N word to be much more offensive and shortsighted (when used to condescend) than many of the other offensive words. This is the real world, if you say or do something that deeply offends your boss, you will get fired. | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On March 09 2012 13:24 wats0n wrote: I would implore you Mr. Garfield to reevaluate your approach to the issue of racism because I believe it's fundamentally the wrong philosophy that we as a society need to achieve the ultimate ideal: total eradication of racism. Focusing on the context and the message that people are communicating and not the words themselves is the proper ideology. I would implore you that you are missing Garfield's point. He doesn't want the word to be dis-empowered, and he finds the cavalier and casual use of the word by nerds to be a slap in the face to all the people that have persecuted with it. For it to enter the lexicon of everyday language is ignoring everyone that it offends, and only deepens and widens the racial divide. Pretending that words don't matter, or only matters 'in-context,' just ignores racial issues, and doesn't 'eradicate' anything. | ||
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Utinni
Canada1196 Posts
On March 09 2012 13:27 13_Doomblaze_37 wrote: This is an insightful post. Do you guys remember the SotG where Destiny and InControl spent 2 hours talking about how the term "nigger" became a generic insult? That was met with some controversy, but the fact is that nigger doesn't mean what it used to. Stop treating it like it does It's what people say when they rage, not when they want to insult a black guy. Same with faggot. Treating orb this way this just reinforces the stigma associated with the words, when it shouldn't even exist anymore. Orb lied. that should be the reason why you fired him, not because hes been calling people niggers and faggots since the beta. You lost a passionate caster today EG, and while you gained some fans, you lost quite a few as well. I'm not mad a EG, I understand that they needed to do this from a business standpoint to appease the masses. I find it hard to believe that nobody from EG had ever tuned into one of orbs streams before where he swears, because its rather frequent. Rather, I think that nobody from EG cared. I'm mad at the starcraft and reddit community. Nobody gives a fuck if orb calls someone a nigger on the stream. If they do, they why does destiny have free reign to do it whenever he wants to? Nobody gives a fuck if orb calls someone a faggot on his stream. If they do, then why does Idra have free reign to do it whenever he wants to? You guys helped ruin someone's life today, I hope you're happy with it. Name any professional sporting event where it is allowed for a sports caster or reporter to say such hateful terms or anything similar. Idra does not have free reign to do what he wants, Alex hhas openingly been against idra's choice of words and apparently has it under control. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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vectorix108
United States4633 Posts
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LittleAtari
Jordan1090 Posts
On March 09 2012 13:11 SgtCoDFish wrote: I think at the end of the day, if Orb had immediately said "that was the old me, I'm truly deeply sorry, I didn't mean it literally and I'm not racist. I have trouble with my emotions sometimes and I let it out, but I'm honestly trying to change and specifically remove my use of words like that." in a big post on TL and reddit, this wouldn't have happened. His first mistake was obviously using the n word in the first place. He didn't learn from his mistake (and he knew it really was him that said it, obv) and tried to shift the blame away from him. It was not learning from his mistake that got him fired, imo. I really can't believe that EG would've fired him, or there would've been such a witch-hunt, if he'd apologised honestly and promised to never do it again. Honestly, had Orb not denied it, came out and apologized as soon as this started getting heat, without anyone asking him to, the situation may have ended differently. Like if he had come out and said, "Hey, I did this a while back and it was dumb and childish. It was when I wasn't as big of a deal in the SC2 community. I think I need to better represent SC2 and my employer EG. I hope you guys can give me a second chance. I grew up and around people who didn't see these slurs as a big deal. I actually have a great amount of respect for the Black and African community. (Insert personal anecdote involving Black and/or African). Once again, I am truly sorry for my childish behavior. You wont see it again from me." instead of this: EG: Did you do it? Orb: No, my friends on my account did it! EG: If we find out otherwise, there will be consequences. Orb: .... You don't lie to your employer, especially with stuff like that. | ||
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CatNzHat
United States1599 Posts
On March 09 2012 12:46 Pokebunny wrote:  My reaction exactly, orb is a really nice guy, good caster and I believe that people can change, and learn from their mistakes EG's reaction is justified, but i believe that with a bit of effort they could have kept him on. | ||
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esla_sol
United States756 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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ZessiM
United Kingdom232 Posts
On March 09 2012 13:27 13_Doomblaze_37 wrote: This is an insightful post. Do you guys remember the SotG where Destiny and InControl spent 2 hours talking about how the term "nigger" became a generic insult? That was met with some controversy, but the fact is that nigger doesn't mean what it used to. Stop treating it like it does It's what people say when they rage, not when they want to insult a black guy. Same with faggot. Treating orb this way this just reinforces the stigma associated with the words, when it shouldn't even exist anymore. Orb lied. that should be the reason why you fired him, not because hes been calling people niggers and faggots since the beta. You lost a passionate caster today EG, and while you gained some fans, you lost quite a few as well. I'm not mad a EG, I understand that they needed to do this from a business standpoint to appease the masses. I find it hard to believe that nobody from EG had ever tuned into one of orbs streams before where he swears, because its rather frequent. Rather, I think that nobody from EG cared. I'm mad at the starcraft and reddit community. Nobody gives a fuck if orb calls someone a nigger on the stream. If they do, then why does destiny have free reign to do it whenever he wants to? Nobody gives a fuck if orb calls someone a faggot on his stream. If they do, then why does Idra have free reign to do it whenever he wants to? You guys helped ruin someone's life today, I hope you're happy with it. Words don't just change meanings. The word may have gained a new usage, and therefore perhaps a new meaning, but that doesn't mean it isn't still a very offensive word to a large majority of people. Until now, being in the public eye you wouldn't need to have consideration of this stuff. Orb has been made an example of. A precedent has been set. | ||
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quickclickz
United States81 Posts
"While Orb's inexcusable comments occurred before he was contracted by EG, and they (of course) did not occur on an EG-affiliated broadcast, neither of these points accounted for our delay in dismissing him." "... forgiving Orb, if he apologizes sufficiently. While no amount of penance will land him back at the EG broadcast desk, he's a very talented caster," From what I gathered with those two lines, you're saying this: "It doesn't matter when Orb used the word 'nigger,' if he used it in the past and it's able to be "documented" we wouldn't have been hired. This is a load of bullshit and if anyone believes this they are naive or just lying to themselves. Secondly, you're also telling us from the second quote that even if Orb had apologized for his actions way back then, he would've still been fired? This seems awfully pretentious and is a huge PR-move. We don't see Idra getting fired for saying "The Game is worse because of Fags like you." Why? Because people don't write to sponsors and the team saying they'll boycott because of him. Honestly is Teamliquid the only place that doesn't try to be PC and be mob-controlled? They censor but they play but their own rules and that's at least respectable (read: having the guts to ban Idra for what he did in the past). And to clarify, if Alex/ceo of EG really finds that much hatred in the word, nigger, that any use of that word from his employees means an automatic eject, but the word "fag" is fine, then maybe LGBT needs to send him an email. This was handled poorly by both Orb and EG and definitely badly by the starcraft community. | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
On March 09 2012 13:31 Gamegene wrote: I don't watch him frequently, but for the 2 months, whenever i watched him on own3d he seems quite tame o: He might've learned to control himself once he got picked up by Quantic. | ||
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TCVeritas
United States15 Posts
On March 09 2012 13:29 binkman wrote: As has been said many times already this thread, its not JUST about the language orb used, it is about his reaction after the fact. We all make mistakes, best to wear the the consequences and move on - not lie about them and try to cover them up. Particularly not when that involves lying to your new employer. I like orbs casting and his stream, and I dont think hes a racist, but he handled this badly and is paying the price. Hopefully this isn't the end of his casting 'career' and he can take this in his stride and continue doing what he loves. As for comparisons to Idra/Huk/other eg players who have said racist/homophobic things, what we don't see is these people lying about their actions. Nothing of Orb's reaction to the situation was mentioned by Alex. If thats part of the reason he was fired (and I'm sure it is), he should have mentioned it in the letter. But going by what was written, Alex put the reason behind the decision completely on the fact that Orb used the words which he did, so if other people use the same words then they should face similar punishment by EG. | ||
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Balgrog
United States1221 Posts
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MafiaCheese
United States87 Posts
In conclusion, I would just like to see more professionalism and maturity from us all, so we might be taken seriously by sponsors and fans alike, and continue to grow. | ||
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iloveAthene
186 Posts
On March 09 2012 13:29 ninjamyst wrote: people say nigger all the time. no big deal. drama queens everywhere. Do you understand that EG has major sponsors and simply can't allow this when said sponsors are being bombarded with complaints? | ||
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Minzy
Australia387 Posts
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Spaceboy
United Kingdom220 Posts
I also find it pretty hilarious that there are still plenty of posts that say that Orb got "fired for raging in a ladder game" ... seriously, how can people miss the point by that much? That said I do think using faggot as an insult is also pretty reprehensible (although admittedly less surprising given mainstream culture's attitudes to homophobia relative to racism) and would certainly hope not to hear it used by any EG players in future.. and lets face it, if it is used.. people are now going to notice. | ||
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