Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources.
This is a video game, and sure there's a professional scene to it, but at the end of the day, a majority of people playing and watching these games are anywhere from 13 years old to 25. Younger people have been so used to use that word, that they don't even think when they say it. They even call people that word who they know are obviously not homosexual in any way, not to mention it's probably just habit.
So in other words...............................I'm pretty sure:
(1) Nobody who follows starcraft 2, TRULY REALLY, DEEP DOWN, ......under it all............even CARES when it's used.
and
(2) About 95% of the time, it's not even used for it's meaning, so what's the big deal.......... because I can only think of one
------->
which is basically: offending someone who actually falls under the actual description of the word, who might be watching a game and/or stream, that ALSO falls in that 5%!!!, causing them to feel less likely to want to watch again because they THINK it's being directed at them.
Therefore, making companies and anything in the professional scene for E-sports to shrink, rather than grow because of less viewers and/or participants.
and at the end of the day......................the magic word is:
On March 15 2012 09:56 hunts wrote:And what context are we supposed to think it's being used in when it's being used as an insult?
Think of someone that does not live up to social and ethical norms, behold:
Patti Smith - Rock'n'Roll nigger
Baby was a black sheep. Baby was a whore. You know she got big. Well, she's gonna get bigger. Baby got a hand; got a finger on the trigger. Baby, baby, baby is a rock-and-roll nigger.
Outside of society, that's where I want to be. Outside of society, they're waitin' for me.
(those who have suffered, understand suffering, and thereby extend their hand the storm that brings harm also makes fertile blessed is the grass and herb and the true thorn and light)
I was lost in a valley of pleasure. I was lost in the infinite sea. I was lost, and measure for measure, love spewed from the heart of me. I was lost, and the cost, and the cost didn't matter to me. I was lost, and the cost was to be outside society.
Jimi Hendrix was a nigger. Jesus Christ and Grandma, too. Jackson Pollock was a nigger. Nigger, nigger, nigger, nigger, nigger, nigger, nigger.
Now tell me, is Patti Smith a racist? Well, she's white and it seems she kinda likes the n-word.
I guess the argument would be that she was using the word artistically/poetically rather than as an insult. It would be interesting to know what the NAACP think of it though.
Well, I guess this is what having double standard is all about, isn't it? Idra calling people faggots is part of his artistic performance and not an insult, while Orb calling someone on the ladder is just racism.
I gave a clear definition of the alternate meaning to the word nigger: "someone that does not live up to social and ethical norms" with an actual use case from 1978.
This exact meaning matches the Orb incident. IIRC he was cannon rushed and the unwritten law of SC2 says "thou shall not cheese". Well, I guess he might have written: "I'm sorry, but it seems you do not follow the ethical norms of the SC2 society, which values macro games over any kind of cheesy strats".
This is what the "nigger" insult meant in that context. And this is what it means in the song.
But a lot of people just don't get it. They will focus on one, most disgusting, vile, repulsive meaning / association of virtually anything and they will insist that is the only meaning that matters. Unless it costs them money, like in the Idra's case. In a similar fashion, observe attempts to ban Santa Clause from saying "ho ho ho". It is disrespectful of women:
On March 15 2012 17:47 Keyz1 wrote: I'm sorry but this is ridiculous!!!!
This is a video game, and sure there's a professional scene to it, but at the end of the day, a majority of people playing and watching these games are anywhere from 13 years old to 25. Younger people have been so used to use that word, that they don't even think when they say it. They even call people that word who they know are obviously not homosexual in any way, not to mention it's probably just habit.
So in other words...............................I'm pretty sure:
(1) Nobody who follows starcraft 2, TRULY REALLY, DEEP DOWN, ......under it all............even CARES when it's used.
...
What a dumb post. Have you even read any of this thread? It's full of people who do care when the word is used, including the OP, Alex, who explains his opinion in great detail.
For what it's worth, I have never used that word in my life. I have never called anyone a n***er, f*g, c**nk, or anything like that. If you're raised properly and teach yourself to respect the differences of others, you won't use those words either.
For what it's worth, I have never used that word in my life. I have never called anyone a n***er, f*g, c**nk, or anything like that. If you're raised properly and teach yourself to respect the differences of others, you won't use those words either.
You just used those words though, so it's not worth anything. Don't you get that? Saying "n**ger" is the same as saying "nigger". Plain and simple. Adding two or three stars may hide the actual spelling of the word, but it conveys the exact same information. In my head, I picture the word you communicate without fully typing. Maybe you've never called somebody a "nigger", which is great, but you've definitely used those words in describing their use and talking about whether or not it's okay.
So don't be a pussy about typing out "nigger" when it's in a reasonable context, such as discussion on its use or its meaning, or its history, etc. Typing out "n**ger" is just a way to communicate the word without taking responsibility.
On March 15 2012 17:47 Keyz1 wrote: which is basically: offending someone who actually falls under the actual description of the word, who might be watching a game and/or stream, that ALSO falls in that 5%!!!, causing them to feel less likely to want to watch again because they THINK it's being directed at them.
haha. So your point is: it's okay to bash minorities, because... they're minorities! rofl, just rofl.
For what it's worth, I have never used that word in my life. I have never called anyone a n***er, f*g, c**nk, or anything like that. If you're raised properly and teach yourself to respect the differences of others, you won't use those words either.
You just used those words though, so it's not worth anything. Don't you get that? Saying "n**ger" is the same as saying "nigger". Plain and simple. Adding two or three stars may hide the actual spelling of the word, but it conveys the exact same information. In my head, I picture the word you communicate without fully typing. Maybe you've never called somebody a "nigger", which is great, but you've definitely used those words in describing their use and talking about whether or not it's okay.
So don't be a pussy about typing out "nigger" when it's in a reasonable context, such as discussion on its use or its meaning, or its history, etc. Typing out "n**ger" is just a way to communicate the word without taking responsibility.
What is your point exactly? It's only courtesy to blank the words out for those who might be offended. I've certainly spoken all of those words before, but only in the context of discussing the word itself. This is a large public forum, I'd prefer to censor myself to be respectful.
The person I was responding to claimed that everybody on these forums has called people those names in rage, just like orb. Or that we were all raised to think those words are acceptable. That's simply untrue.
On March 15 2012 17:47 Keyz1 wrote: I'm sorry but this is ridiculous!!!!
This is a video game, and sure there's a professional scene to it, but at the end of the day, a majority of people playing and watching these games are anywhere from 13 years old to 25. Younger people have been so used to use that word, that they don't even think when they say it. They even call people that word who they know are obviously not homosexual in any way, not to mention it's probably just habit.
So in other words...............................I'm pretty sure:
(1) Nobody who follows starcraft 2, TRULY REALLY, DEEP DOWN, ......under it all............even CARES when it's used.
...
What a dumb post. Have you even read any of this thread? It's full of people who do care when the word is used, including the OP, Alex, who explains his opinion in great detail.
For what it's worth, I have never used that word in my life. I have never called anyone a n***er, f*g, c**nk, or anything like that. If you're raised properly and teach yourself to respect the differences of others, you won't use those words either.
I care about when people care about the word being used. Where's my thread.
For what it's worth, I have never used that word in my life. I have never called anyone a n***er, f*g, c**nk, or anything like that. If you're raised properly and teach yourself to respect the differences of others, you won't use those words either.
You just used those words though, so it's not worth anything. Don't you get that? Saying "n**ger" is the same as saying "nigger". Plain and simple. Adding two or three stars may hide the actual spelling of the word, but it conveys the exact same information. In my head, I picture the word you communicate without fully typing. Maybe you've never called somebody a "nigger", which is great, but you've definitely used those words in describing their use and talking about whether or not it's okay.
So don't be a pussy about typing out "nigger" when it's in a reasonable context, such as discussion on its use or its meaning, or its history, etc. Typing out "n**ger" is just a way to communicate the word without taking responsibility.
There's a difference between using a word and referring to a word. Your point would make more sense if he said "shut up, you n***er!". In that case, yeah, why star out part of the word? But obviously he's saying he doesn't think those are good words to use, so why is it necessary to spell them out, when he can refer to them without invoking the full force of them?
I find the term "Card wielding Neo-Nazi" a little bothersome given the orignal post's stance on racism and stereotypes. I can't really comment on the rest as I did not see the situation in which Orb used said word(s). I just know that much of society accepts these words often in social circumstances when people don't understand their true meaning or don't mean to belittle eachother, even though it shouldn't be accepted. It's hard when they called themselves the same word and if you are close to them and get used to using it, could get in trouble. Even saying "them" is racist and I am certainly not. If it was used in a deaming manner, this is perfectly fair.. if just socially that may be another argument because as a society people have come to accept the word used casually maybe this will change that. I hope this does not severely hurt Orb but the precedent is appreciated none the less. Also people that went directly to the sponsors, that's quite immature and a low blow. You are uneducated about proper business employee dealings and due process.
Edit: I WONDER if we dug through every person who has a name on the circuits or streams / teams etc, how many of those people would have similar words used, similar arguments, etc... I bet almost all of them. We hide behind the internet and false identity and the real freedom of speech and with that comes raging and trolling especially if someone is targetting us - that we probably don't even believe in the words, connotations, or uses and aren't that person in real life. Every person on this board has probably done some offensive writing during online gaming at one point yet you dig through a public figures stuff to give him the boot for something he didn't even do recently? Gah. It's not right no, but our society accepts that interaction on the internet. Also his response about IDRA is quite concerning... Orb didn't use the word while with EG yet Idra sad "fag" or whatever.. meaning that using it recently shouldn't matter. It's that he ever used that word AT ALL.
On March 16 2012 06:29 MaverickSC2 wrote: I find the term "Card wielding Neo-Nazi" a little bothersome given the orignal post's stance on racism and stereotypes. I can't really comment on the rest as I did not see the situation in which Orb used said word(s). I just know that much of society accepts these words often in social circumstances when people don't understand their true meaning or don't mean to belittle eachother, even though it shouldn't be accepted. It's hard when they called themselves the same word and if you are close to them and get used to using it, could get in trouble. Even saying "them" is racist and I am certainly not. If it was used in a deaming manner, this is perfectly fair.. if just socially that may be another argument because as a society people have come to accept the word used casually maybe this will change that. I hope this does not severely hurt Orb but the precedent is appreciated none the less. Also people that went directly to the sponsors, that's quite immature and a low blow. You are uneducated about proper business employee dealings and due process.
Using the CS story to illustrate racism of something close is ridiculous. Team unexpected can be accused of false identity but not racism. At the opposite, they exposed clans being racists. This just shows that you overreacts, you feel more offended than the people that might be offended.
There are still lots of racists people out there nowadays, and we should not forget what happened in the past, but overreacting will only make things worse.
And Mr Garfield, if someone on your team say the word "f.g", he should be treated the same way obviously. Unless he makes you earn a lot of money maybe... sigh
How is this different from EGIncontrol making watermelon jokes? I tweeted him that about it, and instead of a bs apology he proceeded to make fun of OTHER races.
Reading otters failed attempt at proposing that racial slurs are "different" than homophobic slurs was pretty interesting. This is your standard political tactic. As long as you say something is true, it doesn't matter if there is logical backing. People will forget and eventually stop asking the question. Did he follow up on the Demon quotes?
An honest approach would have been more respectable. orb was new, and thus subject to stricter punishment. idra is a popular veteran, and subject to more leniency. Understandable, but fairly hypocritical.
I want orb back !. Most of the bleeding hearts who qqed are just hypocritical nerd rages who just wanted to tear someone down from the spotlight. I am sure he would behave if they let him come back. STOP THE EMBARGO
EPT
