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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST |
On March 12 2012 00:19 Esoterikk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 23:48 BeeNu wrote:On March 11 2012 19:23 Jinsho wrote:On March 11 2012 17:33 coloursheep wrote:
The OP lists a comment Alex made about Idra in Twitter, I cannot view twitter where I am could somebody please copy the post for so I can read it.
Thank you in advance Someone tweeted at Alex "do you scold Idra then for using "faggot" during his streams and games? Not sure why he gets special treatment and Orb doesnt" Alex replied "yes, i do. every time it happens, he hears from me. have you noticed it happening recently? if you have, let me know." He has not used faggot in the last 12 months btw. oh I see, when Idra calls people "nigger" and "faggot" he gets a talking to and is told to stop, when Orb calls people "nigger" he loses his job ggnore. rofl, Alex can't even try to deny he gives special treatment to certain people. Alex sounds like a greasy "banker-type" person who will say and do anything to twist things for his advantage with 0 moral persuasion, purely out for profit and keeping up a front. Of course Idra gets special treatment, this is the real world, not some fantasy world where everyone is treated fairly. Idra brings in big dollars because of how he acts, Orb was more or less a no name caster who pissed enough people off then got caught lying and the vocal minority kicked his legs out from under him. Sure it sucks for him but that's life.
So a person that consistently quits his job when he's pissed and throws hissy fits and insults people won't lose his job in the real world? LOL.
I'm sorry, Idra has done overall far more bad things than Orb has, and yet he gets a free pass. Same with players like Naniwa or HuK. The hypocrisy is the only thing I'm pointing out. If you're going to punish Orb for this and want to go the professional route, than you need to man up and do it to everyone, not just some small time player. Because that's how the REAL world works, even in sports like the NFL, NBA, etc. If you fuck up, you get burned. Period. No matter who you are.
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On March 11 2012 19:23 Jinsho wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 17:33 coloursheep wrote:
The OP lists a comment Alex made about Idra in Twitter, I cannot view twitter where I am could somebody please copy the post for so I can read it.
Thank you in advance Someone tweeted at Alex "do you scold Idra then for using "faggot" during his streams and games? Not sure why he gets special treatment and Orb doesnt" Alex replied "yes, i do. every time it happens, he hears from me. have you noticed it happening recently? if you have, let me know." He has not used faggot in the last 12 months btw.
Yep.. he switched to the insult 'retard', which is even worse. But well.. the mentally disabled just don't have such a strong US lobby compared to the colored and the homosexual.
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On March 12 2012 00:32 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 00:19 Esoterikk wrote:On March 11 2012 23:48 BeeNu wrote:On March 11 2012 19:23 Jinsho wrote:On March 11 2012 17:33 coloursheep wrote:
The OP lists a comment Alex made about Idra in Twitter, I cannot view twitter where I am could somebody please copy the post for so I can read it.
Thank you in advance Someone tweeted at Alex "do you scold Idra then for using "faggot" during his streams and games? Not sure why he gets special treatment and Orb doesnt" Alex replied "yes, i do. every time it happens, he hears from me. have you noticed it happening recently? if you have, let me know." He has not used faggot in the last 12 months btw. oh I see, when Idra calls people "nigger" and "faggot" he gets a talking to and is told to stop, when Orb calls people "nigger" he loses his job ggnore. rofl, Alex can't even try to deny he gives special treatment to certain people. Alex sounds like a greasy "banker-type" person who will say and do anything to twist things for his advantage with 0 moral persuasion, purely out for profit and keeping up a front. Of course Idra gets special treatment, this is the real world, not some fantasy world where everyone is treated fairly. Idra brings in big dollars because of how he acts, Orb was more or less a no name caster who pissed enough people off then got caught lying and the vocal minority kicked his legs out from under him. Sure it sucks for him but that's life. So a person that consistently quits his job when he's pissed and throws hissy fits and insults people won't lose his job in the real world? LOL. I'm sorry, Idra has done overall far more bad things than Orb has, and yet he gets a free pass. Same with players like Naniwa or HuK. The hypocrisy is the only thing I'm pointing out. If you're going to punish Orb for this and want to go the professional route, than you need to man up and do it to everyone, not just some small time player. Because that's how the REAL world works, even in sports like the NFL, NBA, etc. If you fuck up, you get burned. Period. No matter who you are.
Its not EG giving him a pass its the community. If people hadn't have flipped and wrote the sponsors Orb would still be working there. Idra slides because people aren't writing the sponsors saying hes a homophobic bigot. If enough people did Idra would be dropped. I promise you that if enough people wrote into say intel and intel went to EG and said drop him or we drop our sponsorship. Idras gone that day. Its the community thats hypocrits not EG. Eg only did what the community forced them to do. Nobody in EG, not Idra, not Huk, not Incontrol, not scoots, is more important than the sponsors. Any of them will be dropped before EG loses a large sponsor. Because EG cannot afford to bleed their sponsors and still exist as a team. I do not understand what is so fucking hard for people to understand about this.
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On March 12 2012 00:32 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 00:19 Esoterikk wrote:On March 11 2012 23:48 BeeNu wrote:On March 11 2012 19:23 Jinsho wrote:On March 11 2012 17:33 coloursheep wrote:
The OP lists a comment Alex made about Idra in Twitter, I cannot view twitter where I am could somebody please copy the post for so I can read it.
Thank you in advance Someone tweeted at Alex "do you scold Idra then for using "faggot" during his streams and games? Not sure why he gets special treatment and Orb doesnt" Alex replied "yes, i do. every time it happens, he hears from me. have you noticed it happening recently? if you have, let me know." He has not used faggot in the last 12 months btw. oh I see, when Idra calls people "nigger" and "faggot" he gets a talking to and is told to stop, when Orb calls people "nigger" he loses his job ggnore. rofl, Alex can't even try to deny he gives special treatment to certain people. Alex sounds like a greasy "banker-type" person who will say and do anything to twist things for his advantage with 0 moral persuasion, purely out for profit and keeping up a front. Of course Idra gets special treatment, this is the real world, not some fantasy world where everyone is treated fairly. Idra brings in big dollars because of how he acts, Orb was more or less a no name caster who pissed enough people off then got caught lying and the vocal minority kicked his legs out from under him. Sure it sucks for him but that's life. So a person that consistently quits his job when he's pissed and throws hissy fits and insults people won't lose his job in the real world? LOL. I'm sorry, Idra has done overall far more bad things than Orb has, and yet he gets a free pass. Same with players like Naniwa or HuK. The hypocrisy is the only thing I'm pointing out. If you're going to punish Orb for this and want to go the professional route, than you need to man up and do it to everyone, not just some small time player. Because that's how the REAL world works, even in sports like the NFL, NBA, etc. If you fuck up, you get burned. Period. No matter who you are.
The underlying problem with your argument is the two people you're comparing. Idra, like it or not, has a huge following and does something only a small amount of people in the world can do. Orb, on the other hand, is someone who just recently came into the spotlight with his casting ability. Before his casting he was just another decent master/gm player with a reputation for horrendous manners.
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On March 12 2012 00:35 Thrombozyt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 19:23 Jinsho wrote:On March 11 2012 17:33 coloursheep wrote:
The OP lists a comment Alex made about Idra in Twitter, I cannot view twitter where I am could somebody please copy the post for so I can read it.
Thank you in advance Someone tweeted at Alex "do you scold Idra then for using "faggot" during his streams and games? Not sure why he gets special treatment and Orb doesnt" Alex replied "yes, i do. every time it happens, he hears from me. have you noticed it happening recently? if you have, let me know." He has not used faggot in the last 12 months btw. Yep.. he switched to the insult 'retard', which is even worse. But well.. the mentally disabled just don't have such a strong US lobby compared to the colored and the homosexual.
This.
The witchhunt on people that use(d) certain words in the US seems to be out of bounds... .
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Why is this thread still up?
I've seen personal attacks and still no bans.
Step the mod game up TL.
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On March 12 2012 00:32 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 00:19 Esoterikk wrote:On March 11 2012 23:48 BeeNu wrote:On March 11 2012 19:23 Jinsho wrote:On March 11 2012 17:33 coloursheep wrote:
The OP lists a comment Alex made about Idra in Twitter, I cannot view twitter where I am could somebody please copy the post for so I can read it.
Thank you in advance Someone tweeted at Alex "do you scold Idra then for using "faggot" during his streams and games? Not sure why he gets special treatment and Orb doesnt" Alex replied "yes, i do. every time it happens, he hears from me. have you noticed it happening recently? if you have, let me know." He has not used faggot in the last 12 months btw. oh I see, when Idra calls people "nigger" and "faggot" he gets a talking to and is told to stop, when Orb calls people "nigger" he loses his job ggnore. rofl, Alex can't even try to deny he gives special treatment to certain people. Alex sounds like a greasy "banker-type" person who will say and do anything to twist things for his advantage with 0 moral persuasion, purely out for profit and keeping up a front. Of course Idra gets special treatment, this is the real world, not some fantasy world where everyone is treated fairly. Idra brings in big dollars because of how he acts, Orb was more or less a no name caster who pissed enough people off then got caught lying and the vocal minority kicked his legs out from under him. Sure it sucks for him but that's life. So a person that consistently quits his job when he's pissed and throws hissy fits and insults people won't lose his job in the real world? LOL.I'm sorry, Idra has done overall far more bad things than Orb has, and yet he gets a free pass. Same with players like Naniwa or HuK. The hypocrisy is the only thing I'm pointing out. If you're going to punish Orb for this and want to go the professional route, than you need to man up and do it to everyone, not just some small time player. Because that's how the REAL world works, even in sports like the NFL, NBA, etc. If you fuck up, you get burned. Period. No matter who you are.
Are you seriously trying to compare quitting a job with leaving a game early? IdrA quitting his job = him leaving EG. IdrA is one of EG's most popular players so of course they will give him more chances than a not very famous caster. I don't think Orb should've been fired at all though but that's not the point of this post.
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On March 12 2012 01:01 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 00:35 Thrombozyt wrote:On March 11 2012 19:23 Jinsho wrote:On March 11 2012 17:33 coloursheep wrote:
The OP lists a comment Alex made about Idra in Twitter, I cannot view twitter where I am could somebody please copy the post for so I can read it.
Thank you in advance Someone tweeted at Alex "do you scold Idra then for using "faggot" during his streams and games? Not sure why he gets special treatment and Orb doesnt" Alex replied "yes, i do. every time it happens, he hears from me. have you noticed it happening recently? if you have, let me know." He has not used faggot in the last 12 months btw. Yep.. he switched to the insult 'retard', which is even worse. But well.. the mentally disabled just don't have such a strong US lobby compared to the colored and the homosexual. This. The witchhunt on people that use(d) certain words in the US seems to be out of bounds... .
South Park provided an excellent social commentary on this matter 
Also, I don't know if this has been mentioned in the thread already, but why is the use of Nigger just thought of as offensive to those of African descent, while the use of Faggot is somehow considered homophobic? Why the distinction? This is not a reflection of my views, just a curious observation.
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On March 12 2012 01:01 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 00:35 Thrombozyt wrote:On March 11 2012 19:23 Jinsho wrote:On March 11 2012 17:33 coloursheep wrote:
The OP lists a comment Alex made about Idra in Twitter, I cannot view twitter where I am could somebody please copy the post for so I can read it.
Thank you in advance Someone tweeted at Alex "do you scold Idra then for using "faggot" during his streams and games? Not sure why he gets special treatment and Orb doesnt" Alex replied "yes, i do. every time it happens, he hears from me. have you noticed it happening recently? if you have, let me know." He has not used faggot in the last 12 months btw. Yep.. he switched to the insult 'retard', which is even worse. But well.. the mentally disabled just don't have such a strong US lobby compared to the colored and the homosexual. This. The witchhunt on people that use(d) certain words in the US seems to be out of bounds... .
This? Here's that
The NBA has fined New York Knicks guard J.R. Smith $25,000 for posting a photo of a scantily clad woman on his Twitter account.
This guy didn't get fired but he did far less in the gray area that Orb has. It makes me think back to Incontrol's post about e-sports future. You either find a way to stow that BM/Rage or face the consequences.
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On March 12 2012 01:16 Valikyr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 00:32 superstartran wrote:On March 12 2012 00:19 Esoterikk wrote:On March 11 2012 23:48 BeeNu wrote:On March 11 2012 19:23 Jinsho wrote:On March 11 2012 17:33 coloursheep wrote:
The OP lists a comment Alex made about Idra in Twitter, I cannot view twitter where I am could somebody please copy the post for so I can read it.
Thank you in advance Someone tweeted at Alex "do you scold Idra then for using "faggot" during his streams and games? Not sure why he gets special treatment and Orb doesnt" Alex replied "yes, i do. every time it happens, he hears from me. have you noticed it happening recently? if you have, let me know." He has not used faggot in the last 12 months btw. oh I see, when Idra calls people "nigger" and "faggot" he gets a talking to and is told to stop, when Orb calls people "nigger" he loses his job ggnore. rofl, Alex can't even try to deny he gives special treatment to certain people. Alex sounds like a greasy "banker-type" person who will say and do anything to twist things for his advantage with 0 moral persuasion, purely out for profit and keeping up a front. Of course Idra gets special treatment, this is the real world, not some fantasy world where everyone is treated fairly. Idra brings in big dollars because of how he acts, Orb was more or less a no name caster who pissed enough people off then got caught lying and the vocal minority kicked his legs out from under him. Sure it sucks for him but that's life. So a person that consistently quits his job when he's pissed and throws hissy fits and insults people won't lose his job in the real world? LOL.I'm sorry, Idra has done overall far more bad things than Orb has, and yet he gets a free pass. Same with players like Naniwa or HuK. The hypocrisy is the only thing I'm pointing out. If you're going to punish Orb for this and want to go the professional route, than you need to man up and do it to everyone, not just some small time player. Because that's how the REAL world works, even in sports like the NFL, NBA, etc. If you fuck up, you get burned. Period. No matter who you are. Are you seriously trying to compare quitting a job with leaving a game early? IdrA quitting his job = him leaving EG. IdrA is one of EG's most popular players so of course they will give him more chances than a not very famous caster. I don't think Orb should've been fired at all though but that's not the point of this post.
Idra quitting a game = him quitting. Period. He quit doing his job. His job is to represent EG properly. He has not done this on multiple occasions, and yet he gets free passes to do whatever the fuck he wants without any repercussions.
And what someone said above is correct. The Starcraft community is full of hypocrites, criticizing other communities for not being professional when leaving players like Idra free room to do whatever the flying fuck they want as long as they deem it "funny and proper." If you want a REAL professional world, you either deal with ALL forms of badmanner, not just one guy because Reddit decided to go on a witchhunt.
It's pretty sad to see the community has really come to this. Just shows you that the Starcraft community is no better than any other gaming community out there. To go on a rabid witchhunt only proves that the Starcraft community is immature, not that it has matured.
Seriously, you know how much shit I would get if I started a witchhunt on Idra just for shits and giggles just as an attempt to get him fired, along with going after the sponsors of EG? LOL. But it's ok if it's Orb, because no one knows who this guy is. Yes, what he did was wrong. However, I think EVERYONE here can say that at some point and time they've lost it when playing a game of Starcraft. Some of us handle rage better than others. This is no worse than some asshole at work getting you fired just because he wanted to. Technically what he did was legal, but it's an asshole move and you know it.
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For all of you people saying you can use the word "nigger" and it mean nothing bad are just delusional. I mean really, I hear almost everyone defending Orb because the person on the other end "probably" wasn't black then clearly he is not a racist.Since using the word "nigger" should only be offensive when you call a black person that and you yourself hate blacks. To strengthen this argument people akin to how friends call each other faggots but don't really mean faggot, after all, they have gay friends!
Guess what? Words have meanings and just because YOU don't want to accept it doesn't mean it's not there. The ENTIRE PURPOSE OF SAYING "NIGGER" is to be offensive and disparaging. Please look this up in a dictionary. Orb was using the word in a contemptuous and hostile way. Using the phrase "DUMB nigger" over and over again really drives home the racist aspect. He could have just called him an idiot and been done with it.
Everyone should take a lesson from Dave Chapelle. Yeah, he thought saying stuff like that and buying into stereotypes was hilarious. Until he realized that such behavior is damaging and separating all of us. No amount of money in the world was going to convince him that he should go back and make more comedy skits on racism and stereotypes because at the end of the day, someone is being hurt and exploited. If you really believe that using the word "nigger" and "faggot" with your friends means nothing, please try to expand your mind and consider the implications of these words.
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The thing is, people seem to think its OK for Idra to say retarded, when in reality it is a very offensive term.
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Well now that i know what he wrote i have no idea how some people can defend him. That's such a stupid thing to write when you want to become a proffessional... I mean everyone can get angry over a loss but not everyong use that kind of words... But the worst part is that he lied and said it wasnt him playing. so childish, i totally lost respect for you orb. gl in your commentating. --
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As a black man, I think the whole situation is a bit of an over reaction. Inspires little sympathy.. but still and over reaction. While EG did need to distance themselves from a ton of bad publicity the damage to Orb's career is way out of proportion to the statements he made before he was even employed by EG. No matter how offensive. Now a simple google search by a potential employer will give him a huge hurdle to overcome. Hate the word as much as you please, but when you look at the context it was used I don't think it even comes close to the career damage that he's taken.
Don't know what EG and their sponsers could have done differently, but the end result is entirely too harsh.
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On March 12 2012 02:36 DarJir wrote:
As a black man, I think the whole situation is a bit of an over reaction. Inspires little sympathy.. but still and over reaction. While EG did need to distance themselves from a ton of bad publicity the damage to Orb's career is way out of proportion to the statements he made before he was even employed by EG. No matter how offensive. Now a simple google search by a potential employer will give him a huge hurdle to overcome. Hate the word as much as you please, but when you look at the context it was used I don't think it even comes close to the career damage that he's taken.
Don't know what EG and their sponsers could have done differently, but the end result is entirely too harsh.
Ah wise words. People that overreact to this word might be the most racist desperately trying to say "hey look at me being angry at this word! I'm not racist!"
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On one hand, i feel bad for orb for being dismissed from EG just because of his "hater community." On the other hand, he had it coming. Ugh...
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On March 12 2012 02:36 DarJir wrote:
As a black man, I think the whole situation is a bit of an over reaction. Inspires little sympathy.. but still and over reaction. While EG did need to distance themselves from a ton of bad publicity the damage to Orb's career is way out of proportion to the statements he made before he was even employed by EG. No matter how offensive. Now a simple google search by a potential employer will give him a huge hurdle to overcome. Hate the word as much as you please, but when you look at the context it was used I don't think it even comes close to the career damage that he's taken.
Don't know what EG and their sponsers could have done differently, but the end result is entirely too harsh.
Ya, I agree that's pretty crazy that any potential employer only needs to google his name to get a nice big picture of him to find out that he's a "nigger guy" (south park).
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Still on this drama? That's strange!
Normally you guys move on pretty fast. Did you not find a new victim already?
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Seriously, the more time that passes since this went down, the more respect i lose for alex garfield. I am so completely dissapointed with his handling of this situation. I am so completely saddened by his desire to hang orb out to dry rather than make a simple business decision. Just because a person has a 'black studies' degree does not means he has the right to lecture an entire community on racism. He is just another white guy plagued by guilt. His ethnocentric views on racism pretty much have no place in the international starcraft community and some of his pompous holier than thou statments makes him more racist than orb IMHO. Where are the minority employees and players for team EG? I havnt seen any since black panther went inactive. You would think a guy so concerned with the african american community that he went out to get a degree studying them would be making a conscious effort to diversify his company but its pretty clear that is not happening. Instead he sets his (formerly) all white sc2 team up in a mini-manion in ARIZONA of all places and most of the players dont evern deserve the sponsorship they are getting. The EG sc2 team(save for puma, maybe jyp) is a farce, and nothing more than an image(a mostly white one). He is doing nothing to grow NA esports and players, only his own brand. Seriously Alex, as a long time support, you have lost my support. This was the final straw. At least complexity is still around to demonstrate how real profesionals run a team.
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On March 11 2012 17:18 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 16:51 RajaF wrote:On March 11 2012 16:25 jnsjr wrote:On March 11 2012 16:12 RajaF wrote:On March 11 2012 14:57 MaestroSC wrote:
this thread just shows how many people are not full fledge members of the workforce.
Casting was a job for Orb.
Walk into your job and start swearing/using racial slurs, see how long you are employed. Especially in a position where you will be representing your entire company. Good luck keeping your job.
I dont want to get into a debate about the psychology of words and their connotative and denotative meanings, but I just think it's one of those things, where if you want to be a representative or voice of an organization you have to remember that in all of your actions, because people will look for moments of weakness or reasons to remove you from your position.
IDK I think it sucks for Orb cause it happened before he had the position, but at the same time Evil Geniuses revolves around maintaining their sponsorships and keeping their sponsors happy, and they cant afford negative attention that might cost them their livelihood.
Agreed with post above mine. +1 But that is the thing that most people like you do not get. Orb did not walk into the job and start using racial slurs. He used one on his private stream, way before he was ever affiliated with EG. Frankly he should be looking into hiring himself a lawyer and suing EG for breach of contract and wrongful dismissal. And the thing that people like you do not get is in these types of employment cases, it will not matter. Your past actions previous to employment, if they are made public and can be substantiated, can absolutely lead to dismissal from your current job. There is no breach of contract and no wrongful dismissal. Wrongful dismissal/termination is a specific legal concept (not going to explain), and frankly, I don't see what legal right is being violated or why the dismissal is wrongful. I'm not sure why people think otherwise. You think EG's employment lawyers or consultants didn't ok this before it went through? Don't worry, you don't need to explain the term. Any employed person should be at least familiar with it and what it entails. Orb was fired for breaking some sort of internal rule about making comments of the sort. That is really the only legal reason that EG would of had. Maybe they can say that he was harming business interests since a lot of people emailed their sponsors (lol) but I doubt they would argue this with any success. So considering the reason for dissmissal, all a decent lawyer has to do is find a clip of Idra calling ppl faggots on the internet while under contract with EG and suddenly it is a very strong case in some US courts because either they enforce that rule for everyone (Idra) or they do not. tl dr: The legal right that is being violated is the right to work (in some US states) and the dissmissal is wrongful because of Idra breaking the same rules in the past yet is still employed there. On March 11 2012 16:44 BlazeFury01 wrote:On March 11 2012 16:35 g0rthaur wrote:
I add this only to give my own thoughts. Obviously, there seem to be strong emotions surrounding this issue. so: I think Orb is a great caster and his dismissal is a huge overreaction. I dislike the current preoccupation in America (and maybe elsewhere?) with words, not actions. I don't care what word people use. My initial reaction was to boycott EG events, but I realized I would cave eventually : ) Bottom line: I wish everyone would just relax on these sorts of issues. I realize this is not likely. Of course you think the dismissal is a huge overreaction you even said yourself "I don't care what word people use". The situation isn't about "you" or what "you" think. It's about a racist word which Orb used and was fired because of it. He could have avoided using that word and there are a million other words Orb could have used in it's place but he chose that specific word especially when the sentence didn't even make sense. Orb: "you ain't your nigger tactics". Really? And did you seriously just say "boycott" EG events? Seriously lmao stop being so damn dramatic. What EG is doing is trying to help the growth of SC2 by hosting "PROFESSIONAL" events with a "PROFESSIONAL" staff. If you don't fit the bill then your out. "PROFESSIONAL"... lol... are you not the guy that posted a video of a drug den with violence and racism galore in there? yeah, thought so. Just like somebody who doesn't know what the hell they're talking about to throw in something that has to do with absolutely nothing with what we're discussing now. And yes, I'm the guy who posted the video. First off, the video was a visual example of how the word we're discussing is "offensive" and of the reaction that took place because of it's use. I said EG was trying to help the growth of SC by being professional. Also, if the place in the video was "racist" they wouldn't allowed him in the building to begin with; have you not seen remember the titans? Anyway, stick to the topic.
Yes, the video is a great example of people who think like you. I'm guessing you're the ugly fat guy in the white shirt I'd imagine. Fact is, there are many many things you can say to someone that is offensive. Thing is, most people are civilized and behaved enough to not give in into violence over some bad words, unlike you apparently and your silly gang of scumbags.
User was temp banned for this post.
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EPT
