Complexity Gaming and Team Dignitas, in conjunction with Sound Blaster, are proud to announce a new live show hosted by Jason Lake and Michael O`Dell: The Executives: The Business of Gaming.
Each Wednesday at 1:00 PM EST your hosts will be joined by news anchor Patrick "Chobopeon" O`Neill to discuss the business side of recent events and interview a chosen individual who is impacting the business side of eSports or gaming in general.
The Executives' goal is to educate the next generation of business leaders and facilitate an open discussion about the opportunities and challenges facing the eSports business today.
The debut episode is this Wednesday at 18:00 GMT (+00:00). You can tune in at www.twitch.tv/compLexity.
Guest Lineup: (subject to change)
Episode 1: Sponsorships 101 - Ryan Schlieper, Product Marketing Manager, Creative SoundBlaster Episode 2: eSports Business 101 - Craig "Torbull" Levine of ESEA, ESS and previously of Team 3D Episode 3: Team Management - Victor "Nazgul" Goossens, co-Founder, Team Liquid Episode 4: The Business of Being TotalBiscuit - John "TotalBiscuit" Bain, CynicalBrit.com Episode 5: League Management - David Ting, Head of IGN eSports / IGN Proleague
Always feel free to share your news, show ideas and questions with our crew.
Contacts:
Jason "1" Lake, Founder & CEO, Complexity Gaming. @coL_Lake Michael "Odee" O`Dell, Founder & Managing Director, Team Dignitas. @dignitasODEE Patrick "Chobopeon" O`Neill, eSports journalist and news anchor. @chobopeon Simon "Sympatico" Abitbol, Stream Producer. @SympaticoTV
Jason Lake and Michael O`Dell are the best. I once met them in a bar in the outskirts of Kansas City, Kanasas. They were super cool and even bought my girlfriend a martini. We got talking about esports in general and came to the conclusion that it is good for the state of Kanasas.
Please use the [time ] BBCodes in your post! It might be meant for US citizens but using them don´t hurt! (the brackets without the space)
The debut episode is this Wednesday at 1 PM EST. The debut episode is this Wednesday at [time ]1 PM EST[/time ]time. The debut episode is this Wednesday at 18:00 GMT (+00:00)time.
The Executives' goal is to educate the next generation of business leaders and facilitate an open discussion about the opportunities and challenges facing the eSports business today.
I'm not sure how I feel about the show, but apparently people are interested. I'm not sure a show like this is the right way to reach out to 'next generation of business leaders'. Personally, I could care less with the business side of things because usually when it gets discussed its executives looking for sympathy or people acting nice to sell their stuff. Hopefully the show doesn't turn out to be something like, "look everyone, making a profit from e-sports is extremely hard so please buy HD passes, shirts, and tickets!".
Then again, that's just me being paranoid. The topics do look okay. Hopefully it's all positive stuff.
The Executives' goal is to educate the next generation of business leaders and facilitate an open discussion about the opportunities and challenges facing the eSports business today.
I'm not sure how I feel about the show, but apparently people are interested. I'm not sure a show like this is the right way to reach out to 'next generation of business leaders'. Personally, I could care less with the business side of things because usually when it gets discussed its executives looking for sympathy or people acting nice to sell their stuff. Hopefully the show doesn't turn out to be something like, "look everyone, making a profit from e-sports is extremely hard so please buy HD passes, shirts, and tickets!".
Then again, that's just me being paranoid. The topics do look okay. Hopefully it's all positive stuff.
This show definitely won't be for everyone. Many fans are happy to watch the games and don't really care about the business side, and that's totally fine.
Over the years I've had hundreds of questions sent to me about these things so I figured there may be some people who are interested.
On February 28 2012 07:01 SimDawg wrote: Please make sure this is on the calendar and put up VODs.
We'll definitely have VODs posted as quickly as possible. I know the time is odd for NA people who are in school or at work but thought the time would help us avoid other shows people enjoy and would give Euros a chance to watch a live show before 1 AM.
So unbelievably excited for this. Glad to see Jason finally doing something like this..and also excited to see Chobopeon back to doing something like this as well.
Sounds really cool. Jason Lake seems like a really down to earth and knowledgeable guy from interviews with him I've seen in the pasts o this should be good.
On February 28 2012 08:00 Soloturtle wrote: Really interesting show. Maybe invite FXOBoss to this, his perspective of business in ESports Is really wise.
I second this... FXOBoss would be an excellent person to invite onto the show.
should try to get FXOBoss on the show to do like a monthly or even based 5-10 minute segment with his opinion. Would be friggen awesome. Kind of like when ESPN brings the attorney's on when something big is going down... Just a short segement with a brilliant minds opinion. (well maybe ESPN isn't the best example for the brilliant mind part).
a completely new format? could be really interesting. best of luck from me, hopefully this show will last. chances are that they will give hints on wages, sponsor and price money. definitely interesting! everyone tune in
Pretty neat idea for a show. I think it will be good for people to hear more about the behind the scenes business of esports. Hopefully people will slow down the witch-hunting, and get a better idea of the investment, and risk, teams and organizations are making when they venture monetarily into the world of gaming.
This will be very interesting to the people who care about this kind of thing, I'm interested to hear the views and opinions of these guys, could be very eye-opening. Obviously a lot of people aren't going to care because they will think that its just these guys promoting themselves and their product, which is a shame.
On February 28 2012 08:39 Fuego wrote: This will be very interesting to the people who care about this kind of thing, I'm interested to hear the views and opinions of these guys, could be very eye-opening. Obviously a lot of people aren't going to care because they will think that its just these guys promoting themselves and their product, which is a shame.
Look forward to it.
Well, I think it'll be these guys promoting themselves and their brands (I really rather doubt they're doing this as a free community service without a single 'second thought' behind it), but I also think it will be very interesting. I'll likely catch the VODs when I have some free time, but I will be watching with a somewhat sceptical eye.
I can't help but feel the recent MLG stuff had something to do with this. But aside from that, I think it's a really good idea for a show anyway, and I will absolutely be tuning in to the VODs. Good luck, and I hope it all goes well!
On February 28 2012 08:33 [N3O]r3d33m3r wrote: i can see this show's purpose in trying to show people that PPV models need to be introduced or esports is not viable. a bit of propaganda tbh^^
Actually the show was under development before the MLG PPV was announced. I wish we had launched earlier to discuss the PPV before the event but we weren't ready.
I love this idea! I can't wait to see how this show turns out, and I hope to learn a lot. I hope to make my career in ESPORTS through bringing real business practices and professionalism to forefront. I want this community to have a real, viable future! So glad to see the people already in working in the biz taking steps in this direction.
Hmmm. I got excited at first then thought, I've always hated the news and don't like the thought of it reproduced into a starcraft version. Hope you prove me wrong though.
As a manager who is trying to constantly develop and improve my team as much as possible I can say this will be a great asset. I will definitely tune in and hopefully pick something up from watching Thanks for doing this, truly unique content.
Jason Lake and everyone else who is doing this... you are a GOD SEND!
I can't even tell you how amazing it is to see this. I will be personally watching every episode (probably multiple times) thank you so much for doing this. It really just blows my mind that you guys would consider doing a show like this for the minority of people that it would pertain to (or the people that are just interested) and it really shows how much you guys truly care about eSports in imho.
Hmm...interesting idea for a show. I hope it just doesn't turn to some sort of ad campaign for each guest. I doubt it though, it seems like there's some sort of plan for it.
Is there any way you can do a "restream" at around 7 or 8 pm EST for everyone who is interested in getting into the esports world, but still has to work a day job right now? Would be REALLY awesome!!
LOVE this idea though! I'll be watching the vods for sure! :D
I love the idea of this. With all of the recent events in the community it'll be great to get some actual transparent opinions from some experienced people. Can't wait :D
Please ask David Ting how much money (if any, but I think most people around here know they must have) IPL has lost since season 1. I'd be really interested to hear even a ballpark figure because I think IGN artificially pricing their products so incredibly low is not good for the sustainability of the scene at all (unless they think this investment will pay off in the medium to long term which I can't see happening, at least in the case of sc2). They are effectively killing off leagues who need to charge higher premiums to survive.
So what will the format of this show BE? Will Patrick be simply a moderator? Will the guest be thrown into the fire for the ENTIRE episode or simply interviewed? Excited to see what THE EXECUTORS has to bring!
On February 28 2012 11:43 Trowa127 wrote: Please ask David Ting how much money (if any, but I think most people around here know they must have) IPL has lost since season 1. I'd be really interested to hear even a ballpark figure because I think IGN artificially pricing their products so incredibly low is not good for the sustainability of the scene at all (unless they think this investment will pay off in the medium to long term which I can't see happening, at least in the case of sc2). They are effectively killing off leagues who need to charge higher premiums to survive.
Will tune in.
I would not say that IPL is starting any price wars or undercutting any competition. Sure MLG had its PPV Arena, but its main event in Columbus is still going to be free. Besides, competition is good for the scene, as it forces the tournaments to constantly improve their products. Finally, one can argue that the scene right now is oversaturated, with too many tournaments all competing for the same viewers at the same time, and by having a fewer, stronger tournaments would be better than many small tournaments.
IPL has lost a significant amount of money, I believe David Ting once said in an interview more than 6 figures. However, with IGN fielding the overhead costs, they are basically treating that as an advertising expense, as IGN has bought a lot of goodwill from the SC2 and LoL communities. Mr Ting also mentioned that his goal was to make IPL break even for the next year.
On February 28 2012 08:11 purecarnagge wrote: should try to get FXOBoss on the show to do like a monthly or even based 5-10 minute segment with his opinion. Would be friggen awesome. Kind of like when ESPN brings the attorney's on when something big is going down... Just a short segement with a brilliant minds opinion. (well maybe ESPN isn't the best example for the brilliant mind part).
considering waking up at 5 am to watch this, being a senior year business and economics student at high school. This could be a tailor made show for me
Can't wait, I love shows like this. It's a very strange phenomenon when a 17 year old gamer is more interested in the business of eSports than the eSports itself; even stranger considering I have no interest in business.
Any plans to make the VODs available as a podcast on iTunes? American shows are usually on while I'm at uni so it'd be badass to have a system like that. I believe Blip.tv can automatically do that but I've heard it has quite a few problems.
Or just have the mp3 available on iTunes like SOTG does.
Wow, this seems pretty slick. Definitely a show to look out for. I dont think it will stick around for more than 10 shows or so, but it def seems interesting.
A stupid question, but will this be up on the TL calendar? I am pretty forgetful so I always just check there if there's anything interesting to watch later that night...
love shows/book about business. I am a boring accounting major who will specialize in corp tax law but still a lot concepts and the people who make them are very interesting to me. Ca't wait to see some of the kings in thier field.
great idea, really looking forward to the TB episode in particular. He always seems to be finding a way to give money away as charity, prizes or sponsorship so it will be interesting to hear how the income is generated.
Looking forward to this show. For E-sport to be able to grow the businesses that are involved in it have to make a profit from it. Hopefully a show like this can educate the community and make people understand what is needed for a business involved in e-sport to be successfull.
General idea is great. However, inviting someone like Nazgul for Team Management (Liquid only has SC2 members and has not been around for long - granted there are still Lake and O'Dell on the call, this might not be too big an issue) and David Ting for League Management (he's never really managed a league since IPL has only had one major event so far, has no real esports background, there are far more insightful choices) don't really resonate too well with me.
I'd love to see this make it's way onto a podcast (if possible). Sometimes on the train or just in free time I like to have items like this cue'ed up and ready to rock!!
@ FlyingDJ: I cannot see any argument why Nazgul shouldn`t be a qualified guest as he doesn`t only manage a big team but also runs the biggest esport-site, a huge online tourney plus he has a good grip about the Korean scene. Plus I would say that with the possibility of online streaming and the emergence of new marketing tools running a team is nowadays vastly different from running a WC3 team in 2006. So being only in the buisiness for 2 years is not a handicap.
Excellent idea! I think it is a pretty fitting subject to talk about at any time, but now more so because of MLG and their PPV decision. It would be great to hear about experiences and thinking behind some of the pioneers in this relatively new space. I'll be watching for sure as I'm more attuned to the business side rather than the actual playing.
Just wanted to also mention my support for this. I feel like in an industry like esports with newly emerging business models, the fans and public are more of a part of the business side of things than in more established industries, so it makes sense to have something like this to get information and perspective out there. One thing I would second from the thread abov is the suggestion to invite one or more players on to talk about the player side of things; I guess that might not be possible, however, since a lot of the things they could talk about would probably be covered by confidentiality agreements.
On February 28 2012 11:43 Trowa127 wrote: Please ask David Ting how much money (if any, but I think most people around here know they must have) IPL has lost since season 1. I'd be really interested to hear even a ballpark figure because I think IGN artificially pricing their products so incredibly low is not good for the sustainability of the scene at all (unless they think this investment will pay off in the medium to long term which I can't see happening, at least in the case of sc2). They are effectively killing off leagues who need to charge higher premiums to survive.
Will tune in.
I would not say that IPL is starting any price wars or undercutting any competition. Sure MLG had its PPV Arena, but its main event in Columbus is still going to be free. Besides, competition is good for the scene, as it forces the tournaments to constantly improve their products. Finally, one can argue that the scene right now is oversaturated, with too many tournaments all competing for the same viewers at the same time, and by having a fewer, stronger tournaments would be better than many small tournaments.
IPL has lost a significant amount of money, I believe David Ting once said in an interview more than 6 figures. However, with IGN fielding the overhead costs, they are basically treating that as an advertising expense, as IGN has bought a lot of goodwill from the SC2 and LoL communities. Mr Ting also mentioned that his goal was to make IPL break even for the next year.
That is exactly my point. They are artificially pricing their product at very low levels as Newscorp probably see 'esports' as a growth market and are willing to fork out some cash for exposure in a potentially lucrative sector. You saw the MLG PPV thread, there were a lot of people commenting on how you can get a month of IPL content for $5 so they wouldn't be paying for MLG (not defending MLG's pricing here, just illustrating a point); think about the message this sends out to leagues without the backing of multi-billion dollar corporations willing to drop six or seven figures in a year for no real return.
What I'm trying to say, is that if other leagues start folding because they can't make money, and IGN eventually decides IPL isn't paying off and shut the whole thing down, we go from over saturation to very few leagues at all. Its just not sustainable.
For the record this isn't me slating IPL at all. Its a great quality product and is obviously good value (how can it not be when they lose six figures on IPL3 alone?). I just don't see many people worrying about the future of broadcast sc2.
Great lineup, great cast. Really excited and will definitely be tuning in to this different style of podcast. I really appreciate seeing a new tack on SC2 podcasts beyond casters/players!!
Awesome that you will have VODs! Will you also go for making just MP3 as well? Would help me alot to have the time to really check it out due high amount of work!
On February 29 2012 00:54 Trowa127 wrote: That is exactly my point. They are artificially pricing their product at very low levels as Newscorp probably see 'esports' as a growth market and are willing to fork out some cash for exposure in a potentially lucrative sector. You saw the MLG PPV thread, there were a lot of people commenting on how you can get a month of IPL content for $5 so they wouldn't be paying for MLG (not defending MLG's pricing here, just illustrating a point); think about the message this sends out to leagues without the backing of multi-billion dollar corporations willing to drop six or seven figures in a year for no real return.
What I'm trying to say, is that if other leagues start folding because they can't make money, and IGN eventually decides IPL isn't paying off and shut the whole thing down, we go from over saturation to very few leagues at all. Its just not sustainable.
For the record this isn't me slating IPL at all. Its a great quality product and is obviously good value (how can it not be when they lose six figures on IPL3 alone?). I just don't see many people worrying about the future of broadcast sc2.
It really depends on what IGN's real goal is. They may not be looking at a strictly monetary return for their IPL project. For years, WCG has been backed as a marketing arm for Samsung (and whichever other companies tag on for the year by buying some booth space). Either way, IGN/IPL could be looked at in the same light, unless they have some other overarching plan that hasn't been fully seen just yet.
On February 29 2012 00:54 Trowa127 wrote: That is exactly my point. They are artificially pricing their product at very low levels as Newscorp probably see 'esports' as a growth market and are willing to fork out some cash for exposure in a potentially lucrative sector. You saw the MLG PPV thread, there were a lot of people commenting on how you can get a month of IPL content for $5 so they wouldn't be paying for MLG (not defending MLG's pricing here, just illustrating a point); think about the message this sends out to leagues without the backing of multi-billion dollar corporations willing to drop six or seven figures in a year for no real return.
What I'm trying to say, is that if other leagues start folding because they can't make money, and IGN eventually decides IPL isn't paying off and shut the whole thing down, we go from over saturation to very few leagues at all. Its just not sustainable.
For the record this isn't me slating IPL at all. Its a great quality product and is obviously good value (how can it not be when they lose six figures on IPL3 alone?). I just don't see many people worrying about the future of broadcast sc2.
It really depends on what IGN's real goal is. They may not be looking at a strictly monetary return for their IPL project. For years, WCG has been backed as a marketing arm for Samsung (and whichever other companies tag on for the year by buying some booth space). Either way, IGN/IPL could be looked at in the same light, unless they have some other overarching plan that hasn't been fully seen just yet.
I agree with you here. As far as I can see, IPL seems to be about exposure of the IGN brand. A problem arises if other big name sponsors don't also start investing in the scene; who here really wants IPL to be the only big sc2 league?
Anyway, I've gone a bit off topic here. As I stated before I'm really looking forward to this show.
On February 28 2012 06:46 Smancer wrote: Jason Lake and Michael O`Dell are the best. I once met them in a bar in the outskirts of Kansas City, Kanasas. They were super cool and even bought my girlfriend a martini. We got talking about esports in general and came to the conclusion that it is good for the state of Kanasas.
Really cool guys.
I can actually distill your comment into a generic format for all future generations to use:
Growth business X, which brings imports Revenue to the state Y, is good.
I just find your conclusion that specifically esports is good for kansas is facile. It's good for any state. IF the state of north korea got involved in E-sports and tried to do in E-sports what the russians tried to do in the Olympics during the cold war, It'd be good for the state of north korea as it would start getting a lot of revenue from global positions and thus increase it's own wealth and its money/power quotient on the world scale.
I'll definitely be watching in a few hours! Just a question for the next "episodes": will you be providing some VODs and where would we be able to find it?
Anyway thanks a lot for giving us the opportunity to learn more about this market!
Really enjoying the show, i study business and marketing so its awesome to hear some of this, especially the guy from creative.
One thing i will say is you could usefully define who is your "host", like Mr Lake is kinda taking charge in terms of questions and such, whereas Jason comes across as the guy who is more the "host", so maybe he should be asking them?
Also get ODEE more involved, hes very quiet and shy!
Im just nitpicking though, really enjoying the show
On March 01 2012 04:17 StarStruck wrote: I was about to say. Jason did a great job planning all the questions, but chobo & ODEE have no room to step into the conversation.
It's like having a gun on the stage and the performers never use it. Why is it there?
There's ODEE. =)
And now chobo's asking questions. Good.
Feedback: try to engage everyone into the conversation. Note: I only captured the last thirty minutes of the show.
Pleasure to hear what Ryan had to say.
I really agree with this. I'm sure they'll get better chemistry as the series continues, but there were a lot of false starts and attempted interruptions that didn't go anywhere. The subject matter was great; I felt that I really learned something about the side of Esports that we mostly just wildly conjecture about.
On February 28 2012 06:46 Smancer wrote: Jason Lake and Michael O`Dell are the best. I once met them in a bar in the outskirts of Kansas City, Kanasas. They were super cool and even bought my girlfriend a martini. We got talking about esports in general and came to the conclusion that it is good for the state of Kanasas.
Really cool guys.
I figure it was a typo, but please double check your spelling as it is Kansas and not "Kanasas". (I'm a Kansan if you couldn't tell )
On topic: Awesome. Will be checking this out when I get a chance
I'm sure you noticed but you did engage into some rants that seemed too long, when col_lake was talking about the FGC and sexist remarks I personally didn't get it. I don't follow the FGC and don't know much about it. But I do know I did not understand the story/history of this problem, and going on for an extended rant of at least 10min certainly didn't help at all. I understand that he was probably very tired/drank lots of coffee but this is the first episode and feedback/criticism is necessary.
At this point it was almost 50min in, I was going to literally post more negative criticism then you see now. Despite being excited to learn about the "sponsorship" side of things, the first part (50min) of the show gave me very little insight about the topic you were going to discuss, it was a huge turn off, it felt like another version of Live on Three giving news on what recently happened and so on. It took the feeling of "okay finally I will learn what people do behind the curtain" out of me. I remember col_lake saying this is the last "topic" of the show, this was such a huge disappointment on what to expect, but giving you the benefit of the doubt I stayed and listened for another few minutes. Col_lake then proceeded to say this is the end of "part one we'll be back in a few." --- which personally gave me a relief.
Now the positive aspects -I really did like col_lake constantly trying to get the video stream back up, watching a face and listening is much easier to comprehend then trying to just listen. -If the video feed stopped working or had horrible fps, a picture of the person instantly replaced the video, it was spot on, every time. Much better comparing to State of the Game. -Regardless of the bumpy part one, I enjoyed the second part SOOOOOO MUUCHHHHHH, the questions asked were perfect and Ryan gave amazing answers, I felt like I learned a lot when he talked just because his opinion just made so much sense and shaded areas became clear. Col_lake truly did a good job in maintaining a certain perspective of the average TL reader, not many people know what it's like to be on the giving and receiving ends of the business side of esports.
To be honest this will actually be the first time I've saved a podcast lol, I just think what I learned here is very valuable and can only promote esports. Btw Odee should talk more.
There is some truth to the parallels to Lo3, but it's more complicated. Naturally you'll going to have overlap since it's two shows involving key industry figures, addressing major aspects of the scene and its business. And I don't find discussing general news out of place per se, since they sometimes can- and MLG PPV and the FGC incident certainly did have substantial impact.
I agree on the criticism of length of focus, though you'll surely get my benefit of the doubt for hosting a completely new show. It is unavoidable to predict upcoming news and their significance. Trying to keep their airtime at some certain length is always a good thing. I know we're all jealous of the trio infernale that is Marcus, Scott and Rod to yell at certain MLG CEO's and things in general.. But in this particular case of the FGC incident, I found it appropriate especially on this show, given the light of business.
On a lighter note, thank you to everyone involved for an interesting first episode.
As previously mentioned -- aside from the false starts, its looking really really good right now. It could be the VOD as I was watching it (or it could be all the other stuff I was trying to do at the same time) -- but I was noticing a syncing problem with the video and the audio. I don't know if I am an outlier though so take that as you will.
I am definitely enjoying the content of the show though (in a way I found it more enjoyable than many of the streams and other talk shows). Will definitely put it on my regular watch-list
I would have to agree with most of the comments previously mentioned and I think it's a very interesting show.
One thing that I would enjoy seeing, if there will be more than 5 episodes, would be an interview with a twitch.tv/justin.tv executive. I would like to hear more about the business side of streaming from both twitch and the teams/players along with things like the viewer numbers and what they exactly mean.
Just finished watching the first episode and I have to congratulate you. This show's a winner. I read so many un-/misinformed opinions around here on TL, it's sickening. This should be required reading viewing for everyone from now on. I agree with the people here that the first part was a bit too long. Would have loved to give the guest more time to elaborate on some things, e.g. ROI, how they calculate/estimate it and so on. But overall a great pilot for the series and the stream production was top notch for sure. I don't know why this only has a couple hundred views on Twitch/Youtube (it certainly deserves more) but please keep this going. Definitely looking forward to ep's 3-5 like many others here.
So now after watching the whole thing: The first part of the show was a little bit drawn out, the second part was super awesome. I really liked the interview with Ryan and his answers. And please, if you discuss a topic like the incident within the FGC or any other recent event, please give us a short rundown of what happened. Just one or two sentences so we actually know what the 5 minute rant that follows is about. Other than that, great job, very educational. Will definitely watch the next episodes as well.
The most interesting part to me was that JLake caught an apparent GSL/MLG breakup.
That would explain the announcement of the Code A matches so late, after they went on their flights, what if GSL was going that on purpose to give MLG a hard time.
And why did MLG make a press release about that when all they did was just handle it like they should, they could have easily let it go on in the background? Positive PR for MLG, sure, but it's also a type of negative PR and hitting back against GSL for it's late notification.
I think the league competition in esports is really going to hit a new level this year. There's an over-saturation of leagues at the moment and not everyone can survive this year. Going to be interesting.
Just finished listening to this episode and damn was it interesting (once more!). A pity there were these huge audio issues but yeh, that crap tends to happen sometimes :/
Either way, I hope more and more people tune into / listen to this show, it's fantastic!
I am loving this show so far. I already have like a thousand questions after watching the first 2 episodes in one session. But I figured I'd watch the remaining episodes first :D
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.complexitygaming.com/uploads/depository/exec_b.png)
!!!!! 
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