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Ended up paying 10$ split with a friend only because some of my favorite players were there, would prob pay 10$ for upcoming events.
Still wouldn't pay 20$ for it.
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On February 27 2012 12:33 scaban84 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 12:29 nGBeast wrote:On February 27 2012 12:21 foxSC wrote:On February 27 2012 12:20 bovineblitz wrote:On February 27 2012 10:28 KalWarkov wrote:
so many ppl killing e-sport. wonder how much they spend on alcohol during that time - maybe more then 20 bucks?
either pay or dont watch, everything else is unacceptable. but mlg also has to do sth against that "privacy mode" free watching - i payed 20 bucks, it was a great event and worth every cent, and still i hate that i couldve watched it without paying anything just as well. We got alcohol at a fair price, not SC2 pro games at an inflated price. Truth right there. Everyone being high and mighty in this thread is just angry they got ripped off 20$ for what was, and should be, free. No, I'm glad I paid $20. I'm not a whiny teenager who think's all content should be free, nor do I think everyone is entitled to a free stream. If you guys want this to actually work, (esports) steps like this need to be taken. I for one commend Sundance for going through with this and not backing down to the pitchforks and sticking to their guns, nothing better then a bunch of angry teenagers crying because they actually have to PAY for content because MLG wanted to SEE if they could actually make a return on a investment. But god forbid you people would actually know MORE about MLG's finical ability amirite? I remember when I was that age. I thought I was such a rebel by downloading tons of warez and getting stuff for free. This track can end up making you a shallow/greedy sociopath that doesn't value other people's hard work. You take everything for granted.
Cool story, I'm 20 years old and pirate most software I have (OS, AntiVir, music, etc) but I have however found bands that I have ended up paying money for since I found their music to be to my liking, and infact I would have never found them if it weren't for torrents. I have paid for probably 10+ albums that I never would have if it wasn't for TPB.
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I just couldn't bring myself to pay $20 dollars. It seemed like too much. Sure, I have money to spare, but I hate when people overcharge for things. Maybe if it was 3-5 years down the line, the casters, community, etc was more established I might consider a price like that, but right now... now way.
So, I didn't pay or watch it.
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On February 27 2012 12:34 MasterKush wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 12:21 Forikorder wrote:On February 27 2012 12:17 MasterKush wrote:On February 27 2012 12:07 Forikorder wrote:On February 27 2012 12:02 MasterKush wrote:
Nobody is addressing the bigger issue in this thread... eSports isn't ready to be monetized in the form of PPV.
Instead we have a flame war with people who have disposable income versus those who don't. What is the point in discussing wether someone is a pirate or not? You could change the title of this thread to "How did you watch [Insert Film Name]?" and you'd get exactly the same debate going on. how do you know? wheres your data? where your experiments? wheres your evidence? wheres your PROOF? you have no proof, the only evidence we have is winter arena which was aparently a big hit, big enough of a hit that sundance thought "hmm with a bit of tweaking this could work" so obviously we ARE ready for some tournaments to be PPV, will the next tourny be 20$? probably not, will the paywall be so easily bypassed? certainly not First off, I said eSports and not just MLG. Perhaps MLG is ready to be monetized in this way, who knows? Nobody on this forum does, that's for sure... Sundance was never going to announce the thing was a failure immediately afterwards. Anyway, my point is that more than half of the people in this thread are claiming they watched it for free and had no intention of ever paying, and there's a significant percentage of people who voted the same way in the poll... that is not good, in any way shape or form. Please don't try and convince me that all of these people will suddenly start paying in the future (likelyhood is, they never will). Do you honestly see it changing for the better if the other big organisations decide to adopt this model? It'll just be more and more piracy. I don't have any facts, statistics, figures because I honestly don't care if you choose to ignore the angle that I'm approaching this from. you make no sense MLG is part of E-Sports and is one of the BIGGEST names in E-Sports if there ready to be monetized E-Sports is ready to be monetized and while Sundance wouldnt have popped up on stream and announcing it was a failure, him popping up wasnt in the schedule, if it was a complete failure they would have silently buried it, if it was a moderate success they would have made an announcement sometime in the future and only committed to one event Sundance came on stream during the final day and confirmed TWO more events, if it was anything short of a great success he would have maybe announced one more event How do I make no sense...? MLG does not equal eSports my friend. It's a big player, yes, but the decisions of MLG should not be replicated by every other company operating under the tag of eSports. I'm not sure you're aware of how Public Relations work, but I would lay money down on the fact that Sundance was always going to make an appearance and confirm future events. Do you honestly believe he was sitting in front of his analytics and once it reached an arbitrary figure that he decided "OK, 2 MORE EVENTS!". The other point you failed to mention, is whether he said the other two arena's would be using the same payment business model. I can't imagine it will be.
i never said MLG = E-Sports but if MLg can be monetized then that does mean E-Sports can be monetized and other companies can follow suit
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Didn't pay, didn't watch. (Watched Assembly)
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I didn't pay and I didn't watch - I felt that if I didn't put up the money, I didn't deserve to watch it. People that said it was too expensive but watched it for free via restreams/other cheats have no sense of decency.
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I watched via....liquipedia.
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On February 27 2012 12:05 foxSC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 12:04 di3alot wrote:On February 27 2012 11:54 foxSC wrote:On February 27 2012 11:53 Astro-Penguin wrote:On February 27 2012 11:42 dsousa wrote:On February 27 2012 11:35 Kharnage wrote:On February 27 2012 11:25 windsupernova wrote:
Really people should not be angry at the people who watched MLG for free due to the cookie bug. It was MLGs own damn fault their system didn't work. It does suck for people like me who payed and I certainly hope MLG makes up for this somehow.
But its MLGs fault they didn't lock the door and people could "sneak in" and watch for free.Starcraft isn't some kind of basic necessity though so I don't know why some people act as if it was their right to be able to watch it for free though... especially since as many of you have said there is tons of free content so no need to try to cheat MLgs moronic system Fuck off. That's like saying you shouldn't be angry if someone cheats at SC2 cause it's blizzards fault for not making the game secure enough. They know it's the wrong thing to do and yet do it anyway, that is the definition of evil right there. Wrong is when you do tangible damage to tangible things. Not when your computer interprets bits sent to it via a url. I had a great MLG weekend, and I still have $20 in my pocket :D Probably some guy guy laid by 2 chicks while watching the stream for free...... do you hate him even more? The FACTS IS: You didn't have to pay to watch MLG! You did. You decided to.... don't be mad at the people smart enough to know that the pay wall would be made of paper . Never knew people were actually this ignorant In my eyes hes smarter than you. He got for free what you paid for. smarter rly? do you rly. think the only reason why i choose to pay for it its because im stupid. Yes, yes i do. why else pay for something you can get for free? also, dont feed me straight lines please haha
And if people wonder why we need to be connected to B.net all the time, folks like this clown are the main reason. Freeloading scrubs, the minority that ruins things for everyone else.
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On February 27 2012 12:29 Mr. Black wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 12:05 foxSC wrote:On February 27 2012 12:04 di3alot wrote:On February 27 2012 11:54 foxSC wrote:On February 27 2012 11:53 Astro-Penguin wrote:On February 27 2012 11:42 dsousa wrote:On February 27 2012 11:35 Kharnage wrote:On February 27 2012 11:25 windsupernova wrote:
Really people should not be angry at the people who watched MLG for free due to the cookie bug. It was MLGs own damn fault their system didn't work. It does suck for people like me who payed and I certainly hope MLG makes up for this somehow.
But its MLGs fault they didn't lock the door and people could "sneak in" and watch for free.Starcraft isn't some kind of basic necessity though so I don't know why some people act as if it was their right to be able to watch it for free though... especially since as many of you have said there is tons of free content so no need to try to cheat MLgs moronic system Fuck off. That's like saying you shouldn't be angry if someone cheats at SC2 cause it's blizzards fault for not making the game secure enough. They know it's the wrong thing to do and yet do it anyway, that is the definition of evil right there. Wrong is when you do tangible damage to tangible things. Not when your computer interprets bits sent to it via a url. I had a great MLG weekend, and I still have $20 in my pocket :D Probably some guy guy laid by 2 chicks while watching the stream for free...... do you hate him even more? The FACTS IS: You didn't have to pay to watch MLG! You did. You decided to.... don't be mad at the people smart enough to know that the pay wall would be made of paper . Never knew people were actually this ignorant In my eyes hes smarter than you. He got for free what you paid for. smarter rly? do you rly. think the only reason why i choose to pay for it its because im stupid. Yes, yes i do. why else pay for something you can get for free? also, dont feed me straight lines please haha Edit: Too mean.
Just because you CAN get something for free, doesn't mean someone's "smarter" for doing it. Maybe they want to inject money into esports. Maybe they want to support MLG for providing such a great product.
If nobody bought it, they wouldn't have been able to put it on. That's the end of the story.
He's hardly "dumb" for paying for it, and that viewpoint is incredibly close minded and a horrible way to go through life.
I realize most people here are high school / college kids, so you all have no cash to blow. When you get actual jobs, you will end up having more disposable income, and so paying for things like this won't be a huge deal. (I personally didn't buy it, mostly because i wasn't terribly interested in watching).
I just feel like it's an absurd point of view to be like, "well he didn't pay so nya nya nya, you're an idiot."
People value money differently, and get different benefits and joys out of all of it.
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Didn't watch it which sucks because aside from the GSL this is the only major sc2 tournament I get really excited for.
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Honestly, if the community wants e-sport to "move forward," steps like this need to be taken.
I don't know abou you guys, but in Australia you pay around $20 to see a football game that only lasts for an HOUR!
However, if you want to relate this to gaming (e-sports or whatever), people pay around $15 p/month to play an MMORPG game, such as WOW and RIFT.
Stop being so damn stingy, MLG provide a quality tournament and in todays world there is no such thing as a free lunch. Thats how it is. If you are 15 years old, go and get a job after school, or ask your mum and dad for money.
$20 really is nothing.
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On February 27 2012 12:48 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 12:05 foxSC wrote:On February 27 2012 12:04 di3alot wrote:On February 27 2012 11:54 foxSC wrote:On February 27 2012 11:53 Astro-Penguin wrote:On February 27 2012 11:42 dsousa wrote:On February 27 2012 11:35 Kharnage wrote:On February 27 2012 11:25 windsupernova wrote:
Really people should not be angry at the people who watched MLG for free due to the cookie bug. It was MLGs own damn fault their system didn't work. It does suck for people like me who payed and I certainly hope MLG makes up for this somehow.
But its MLGs fault they didn't lock the door and people could "sneak in" and watch for free.Starcraft isn't some kind of basic necessity though so I don't know why some people act as if it was their right to be able to watch it for free though... especially since as many of you have said there is tons of free content so no need to try to cheat MLgs moronic system Fuck off. That's like saying you shouldn't be angry if someone cheats at SC2 cause it's blizzards fault for not making the game secure enough. They know it's the wrong thing to do and yet do it anyway, that is the definition of evil right there. Wrong is when you do tangible damage to tangible things. Not when your computer interprets bits sent to it via a url. I had a great MLG weekend, and I still have $20 in my pocket :D Probably some guy guy laid by 2 chicks while watching the stream for free...... do you hate him even more? The FACTS IS: You didn't have to pay to watch MLG! You did. You decided to.... don't be mad at the people smart enough to know that the pay wall would be made of paper . Never knew people were actually this ignorant In my eyes hes smarter than you. He got for free what you paid for. smarter rly? do you rly. think the only reason why i choose to pay for it its because im stupid. Yes, yes i do. why else pay for something you can get for free? also, dont feed me straight lines please haha And if people wonder why we need to be connected to B.net all the time, folks like this clown are the main reason. Freeloading scrubs, the minority that ruins things for everyone else.
Sadly that comparison doesn't fare well on the matter :\
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On February 27 2012 12:38 Kharnage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 12:28 farside604 wrote:
From the poll, seems like most people watched MLG without paying but the thread is mostly people who paid for it. Also interesting is a sub poll where many people said they would indeed pay if the price was lower. So much unlike what this thread has turned into, I don't think its the principle of paying vs piracy at issue here but rather that MLG might have simply charged too much. I wonder how many of the people who are currently grand standing against piracy if the pricepoint was 50 or even 100 dollars. I didn't pay, I didn't watch. I knew with my real life commitments I wouldn't get to watch enough to make it worth $20 to me personally. That doesn't make me any less pissed off, no, fucking outraged that there are pricks on here proud of themselves for not paying. This is team fucking liquid forums guys. You are meant to be the hardcore of the SC2 e-sports community. The people who really care, and you don't give a fuck. Through some weird twist of logic you think you're entitled to shit you're not fucking entitled too and then you're proud that you could sneak in the back door. This is one of those moments where everyone should be able to look at a situation and say "hey, this is the right thing to do, and this is the wrong thing to do" and so many people here just failed miserably. Honestly, the comments on this thread are fucking depressing.
Where is this mysterious entitlement and pride? I took what was there to be taken. I'm not proud, just indifferent, had I not watched MLG for free I'd have watched the literally endless amount of free SC2 content still to be watched. There is literally so much free everything available that a person could go a lifetime without paying for entertainment...I suppose that's "entitlement" if you like. But at the same time, do you actually think it's a sound business model to charge people for what they can already have for free? Is it intelligent of us to support that kind of logic? Get a grip
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On February 27 2012 12:35 esotericc wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 12:32 Mr. Black wrote:On February 27 2012 12:20 esotericc wrote:On February 27 2012 12:19 Pandain wrote:On February 27 2012 12:14 esotericc wrote:On February 27 2012 12:11 PhsX wrote:
Paid the $15 because I could watch every minute (hooray post exam weekends). I'm a college student with no job... That's two drinks, one nice meal out, or two fast food meals. Easy to make the sacrifice and watch. High production quality, but I can't justify spending more than $10 on the same thing again -- need a studio audience IMO. I think a lot of people can afford it, I just spent 20$ on a pizza, I just didn't feel MLG deserved 20$ from me and I didn't support their pay model and that is my opinion. I wasn't planning on watching until MLG gave it to me for free anyway *shrug* You don't value MLG more than a pizza? Lol? In my personal opinion I'm saddened at the poll revealing the amount of people who watched restreams. If your not gonna pay for it, then you should accept the fact you shouldn't watch it. Just cheating MLG out of their money, its just, its just.... hurting esports wrong. I would have paid the 20$ gladly if they offered a 360p free stream. They didn't so I didn't pay out of principle. If you had principles, you would not have watched. You didn't pay out of greed/entitlement, and now you are rationalizing. I don't think you know the definition of principles or you don't understand the context of words, either way you sound stupid. They gave away the content and I watched it, get over it.
No. "Principle -- A fundamental truth or proposition that serves as the foundation for a system of belief or behavior or for a chain of reasoning." Your chain of reasoning is:
1. MLG charges $20 for Winter Arena.
2. Winter Arena is not worth $20.
3. Don't pay.
4. Find (admittedly stupidly massive) flaw in MLG security.
5. Watch MLG.
The way you do something out of principle is that you make a decision (the principle) and follow through with the logically consistent consequences of the principle. If $20 is too much to pay, you don't pay, and you don't watch. Whatever you based your decision not to pay but to watch anyway on, it was not principle, but greed, convenience, etc. Just not principle.
The only principled approaches are to pay and watch or to not pay and not watch. You cannot watch but not pay "on principle." If I'm wrong, please lay out the chain of reasoning that lets you get from "$20 bucks is too much, so I didn't pay" to "but I watched anyway."
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work on weekends, so didnt even think of paying for MLG, i think i watched more of assembly on friday anyways. given how much of the live tournament i would miss, i would not pay more than $5 for an event like this.
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On February 27 2012 12:29 nGBeast wrote:
No, I'm glad I paid $20. I'm not a whiny teenager who think's all content should be free, nor do I think everyone is entitled to a free stream. If you guys want this to actually work, (esports) steps like this need to be taken. I for one commend Sundance for going through with this and not backing down to the pitchforks and sticking to their guns, nothing better then a bunch of angry teenagers crying because they actually have to PAY for content because MLG wanted to SEE if they could actually make a return on a investment.
But god forbid you people would actually know MORE about MLG's finical ability amirite?
People who didn't pay aren't de facto whiny teenagers, and especially are not people who think all content should be free. Pretty terrible statements and arguments to try and make a point.
Free enterprise is a good thing, because it allows companies to do things like this and see whether there is a market for it. It doesn't mean that people are whiny or ungrateful or whatever negative comment you want to make; if someone makes something good, at a price consumers are willing to purchase it at, then they will succeed. If the price is too high, or the quality is not deemed acceptable, then they will fail. Some people don't recognize that piracy exists to balance the market, because things were somewhat out of control in terms of what people were being charged for some items.
The same is true in this instance. If this was a success, then great, they'll be able to keep going with this model; but if it wasn't, then they will have to re-tool or find another method to make things viable.
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$20 is way too much for me. Maybe it made monetary sense to them but let's think about it. Cable is like $50/month. You're talking about 3 days of a single program. This makes gsl look free. Sure there's 80 hours of vods or whatever but few people are going to go back and watch those hours after they already know who wins.
I would do it for $5, maybe $10 if I knew there was high production and no dropouts. Since there was a drop during the finals apparently (I have enough honor not to steal from esports and watch for free) I doubt I would pay $10 next time.
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Paid for the event. Was so worth it, and would do it again.
I don't get everyone who demand these events to be free. They have to support their venture (counting players and teams) and still make a profit somehow. Good work MLG!
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Did not pay, did not watch (partly because I felt it wouldn't be quite right, partly because I didn't really care). Watched a few games from Assembly though, which were quite nice.
On a side note, wow @ the replies around here! So many personal attacks, a guy that wants people to thank him for the fact that we still have games to play and music to listen to, and on top of all that: all of us who did not pay, are hurting eSports (those who did not pay, but watched, are probably killing eSports, right?).
PS: Can you stop comparing UFC with this, please? For starters, that thing is a lot older, and most importantly: the target audience differs so very much.
@Mr. Black: the fact that you edited your post (the "too mean" one) gives me hope. Thank you.
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On February 27 2012 12:54 Mr. Black wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 12:35 esotericc wrote:On February 27 2012 12:32 Mr. Black wrote:On February 27 2012 12:20 esotericc wrote:On February 27 2012 12:19 Pandain wrote:On February 27 2012 12:14 esotericc wrote:On February 27 2012 12:11 PhsX wrote:
Paid the $15 because I could watch every minute (hooray post exam weekends). I'm a college student with no job... That's two drinks, one nice meal out, or two fast food meals. Easy to make the sacrifice and watch. High production quality, but I can't justify spending more than $10 on the same thing again -- need a studio audience IMO. I think a lot of people can afford it, I just spent 20$ on a pizza, I just didn't feel MLG deserved 20$ from me and I didn't support their pay model and that is my opinion. I wasn't planning on watching until MLG gave it to me for free anyway *shrug* You don't value MLG more than a pizza? Lol? In my personal opinion I'm saddened at the poll revealing the amount of people who watched restreams. If your not gonna pay for it, then you should accept the fact you shouldn't watch it. Just cheating MLG out of their money, its just, its just.... hurting esports wrong. I would have paid the 20$ gladly if they offered a 360p free stream. They didn't so I didn't pay out of principle. If you had principles, you would not have watched. You didn't pay out of greed/entitlement, and now you are rationalizing. I don't think you know the definition of principles or you don't understand the context of words, either way you sound stupid. They gave away the content and I watched it, get over it. No. "Principle -- A fundamental truth or proposition that serves as the foundation for a system of belief or behavior or for a chain of reasoning." Your chain of reasoning is: 1. MLG charges $20 for Winter Arena. 2. Winter Arena is not worth $20. 3. Don't pay. 4. Find (admittedly stupidly massive) flaw in MLG security. 5. Watch MLG. The way you do something out of principle is that you make a decision (the principle) and follow through with the logically consistent consequences of the principle. If $20 is too much to pay, you don't pay, and you don't watch. Whatever you based your decision not to pay but to watch anyway on, it was not principle, but greed, convenience, etc. Just not principle. The only principled approaches are to pay and watch or to not pay and not watch. You cannot watch but not pay "on principle." If I'm wrong, please lay out the chain of reasoning that lets you get from "$20 bucks is too much, so I didn't pay" to "but I watched anyway."
I didn't pay because I didn't want to give MLG 20$ at no point did I not want to watch the games, I stuck to my principles by not paying MLG any money, I watched for free because MLG screwed up and GAVE it to me (note: I did not use private mode it simply always worked for me) I still stuck to my principle of not supporting MLG's PPV experiment, watching the games did not violate that because I felt the games were still worth watching and would have paid 20$ had MLG offered a 360p free stream.
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EPT
