|
On February 27 2012 13:09 Tektos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 12:34 Mr. Black wrote:On February 27 2012 12:31 MajorityofOne wrote:On February 27 2012 12:29 Mr. Black wrote:On February 27 2012 12:05 foxSC wrote:On February 27 2012 12:04 di3alot wrote:On February 27 2012 11:54 foxSC wrote:On February 27 2012 11:53 Astro-Penguin wrote:On February 27 2012 11:42 dsousa wrote:On February 27 2012 11:35 Kharnage wrote:
[quote]
Fuck off. That's like saying you shouldn't be angry if someone cheats at SC2 cause it's blizzards fault for not making the game secure enough.
They know it's the wrong thing to do and yet do it anyway, that is the definition of evil right there. Wrong is when you do tangible damage to tangible things. Not when your computer interprets bits sent to it via a url. I had a great MLG weekend, and I still have $20 in my pocket :D Probably some guy guy laid by 2 chicks while watching the stream for free...... do you hate him even more? The FACTS IS: You didn't have to pay to watch MLG! You did. You decided to.... don't be mad at the people smart enough to know that the pay wall would be made of paper . Never knew people were actually this ignorant In my eyes hes smarter than you. He got for free what you paid for. smarter rly? do you rly. think the only reason why i choose to pay for it its because im stupid. Yes, yes i do. why else pay for something you can get for free? also, dont feed me straight lines please haha How's this for a straight line, Fox? Your moral bankruptcy is founded on an inability to imagine the value of people besides yourself. Your friends and loved ones will leave you when you repeatedly demonstrate that your interest in them is solely due to what they do for you. You will die alone, long after you have been forgotten, having contributed nothing of value to anyone. On the plus side, you will have gotten a few things for free that other people paid for. The stealing/piracy/workaround itself is not nearly as distasteful as the inability to realize its wrongness, coupled with a belief that giving value to another person's efforts makes you "stupid." Its a perfect storm of shitty personality traits. Hopefully you are like 13 years old and just young and immature -- you can still change. If not, enjoy your lonely, parasitic existence. Dude seriously? Go take a walk or something, the internet is starting to get to you. Agreed. Was trying to be funny, but failed -- too mean. I deleted post. I disagree, I feel your comments were completely warranted. foxSC is either trolling you really hard or has no concept of how the world works. If everyone was of his opinion content like this just WOULD NOT EXIST because it would be impossible to earn money from it. And after all, it is a business.
Except tons of content DOES exist for free
|
On February 27 2012 13:07 groms wrote:
I don't understand why people are so upset that some people watched this event for free. Shouldn't you be upset at MLG & Twitch who totally botched the paywall?
I watched Assembly this weekend and it was great. I also watched the first set of the grand finals of MLG because I heard it was possible(via chrome etc.) After about 5 mins of lag and problems with twitch I decided to close the stream and wait for next week.
I did not see the full event but I have always had lag issues with twitch when there are significant amounts of people on the stream. I have a great computer and live in an urban center with good speeds. I can't fathom why I would ever want to pay for events in future when the stream provided is unavailable in consistent high quality.
It is mostly the entitlement and the need for tell people that they watch it for free that bothers me. If you want to bypass the pay wall, fine. It's scummy, but I guess I can deal with it. If you want to post about it in the forums with people who paid, you cannot be shocked if those people call you a freeloading scrub. It is really basic logic:
If you make a crappy pay wall; people will pirate your stuff
If you talk about pirating stuff people paid for and supported; they might voice their displeasure
|
On February 27 2012 13:11 esotericc wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 13:09 Tektos wrote:On February 27 2012 12:34 Mr. Black wrote:On February 27 2012 12:31 MajorityofOne wrote:On February 27 2012 12:29 Mr. Black wrote:On February 27 2012 12:05 foxSC wrote:On February 27 2012 12:04 di3alot wrote:On February 27 2012 11:54 foxSC wrote:On February 27 2012 11:53 Astro-Penguin wrote:On February 27 2012 11:42 dsousa wrote:
[quote]
Wrong is when you do tangible damage to tangible things. Not when your computer interprets bits sent to it via a url.
I had a great MLG weekend, and I still have $20 in my pocket :D
Probably some guy guy laid by 2 chicks while watching the stream for free...... do you hate him even more?
The FACTS IS: You didn't have to pay to watch MLG!
You did. You decided to.... don't be mad at the people smart enough to know that the pay wall would be made of paper . Never knew people were actually this ignorant In my eyes hes smarter than you. He got for free what you paid for. smarter rly? do you rly. think the only reason why i choose to pay for it its because im stupid. Yes, yes i do. why else pay for something you can get for free? also, dont feed me straight lines please haha How's this for a straight line, Fox? Your moral bankruptcy is founded on an inability to imagine the value of people besides yourself. Your friends and loved ones will leave you when you repeatedly demonstrate that your interest in them is solely due to what they do for you. You will die alone, long after you have been forgotten, having contributed nothing of value to anyone. On the plus side, you will have gotten a few things for free that other people paid for. The stealing/piracy/workaround itself is not nearly as distasteful as the inability to realize its wrongness, coupled with a belief that giving value to another person's efforts makes you "stupid." Its a perfect storm of shitty personality traits. Hopefully you are like 13 years old and just young and immature -- you can still change. If not, enjoy your lonely, parasitic existence. Dude seriously? Go take a walk or something, the internet is starting to get to you. Agreed. Was trying to be funny, but failed -- too mean. I deleted post. I disagree, I feel your comments were completely warranted. foxSC is either trolling you really hard or has no concept of how the world works. If everyone was of his opinion content like this just WOULD NOT EXIST because it would be impossible to earn money from it. And after all, it is a business. Except tons of content DOES exist for free
ya this is the first tounry... ever taht is PPV except i think one from gom but for koreans they could jsut walk over so this is the only 100% PPV (aside from teh bugs and workarounds) and its not like MLG is going to have everything PPV
|
On February 27 2012 13:12 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 13:07 groms wrote:
I don't understand why people are so upset that some people watched this event for free. Shouldn't you be upset at MLG & Twitch who totally botched the paywall?
I watched Assembly this weekend and it was great. I also watched the first set of the grand finals of MLG because I heard it was possible(via chrome etc.) After about 5 mins of lag and problems with twitch I decided to close the stream and wait for next week.
I did not see the full event but I have always had lag issues with twitch when there are significant amounts of people on the stream. I have a great computer and live in an urban center with good speeds. I can't fathom why I would ever want to pay for events in future when the stream provided is unavailable in consistent high quality.
It is mostly the entitlement and the need for tell people that they watch it for free that bothers me. If you want to bypass the pay wall, fine. It's scummy, but I guess I can deal with it. If you want to post about it in the forums with people who paid, you cannot be shocked if those people call you a freeloading scrub. It is really basic logic: If you make a crappy pay wall; people will pirate your stuff If you talk about pirating stuff people paid for and supported; they might voice their displeasure
The thread specifically asked people how they watched it....
|
Here's what I think MLG should do:
1) Drop the PPV from $20 to $5. Lots of streamers offer subscriptions, which are basically nothing but a token of support to the streamer, and people seem willing to pay this amount. So, many people people who wouldn't pay $20 would be willing to cough up $5.
2) Adjust the costs of the event accordingly. Prize pools reduced. Perhaps production quality. Less $ spent on casters. Probably will need to cut out the expense of paying for people to travel to the event to play, so many top Koreans won't participate.
3) The level of play is reduced drastically. The production quality is reduced drastically. The casting quality is reduced. Hell, maybe it will drop low enough that I might even be offered the job.
4) We get what we pay for and everybody's happy.
|
On February 27 2012 13:13 Kaitlin wrote:
Here's what I think MLG should do:
1) Drop the PPV from $20 to $5. Lots of streamers offer subscriptions, which are basically nothing but a token of support to the streamer, and people seem willing to pay this amount. So, many people people who wouldn't pay $20 would be willing to cough up $5.
2) Adjust the costs of the event accordingly. Prize pools reduced. Perhaps production quality. Less $ spent on casters. Probably will need to cut out the expense of paying for people to travel to the event to play, so many top Koreans won't participate.
3) The level of play is reduced drastically. The production quality is reduced drastically. The casting quality is reduced. Hell, maybe it will drop low enough that I might even be offered the job.
4) We get what we pay for and everybody's happy.
the palyers arent happy becuase they cant attend
the viewers arent happy becuase there arent good players
the employees arent happy becuase they dont get paid
|
I didn't do any fancy or even easy attempts at a workaround. Just clicked the link to the stream and it worked without a PPV pass. It was a very poor first effort on this revenue model for MLG.
|
MLG to PPV for like $1-$5.
millions will pay for support MLG and ESPORTS. cha-ching
|
On February 27 2012 13:15 NovaTheFeared wrote:
I didn't do any fancy or even easy attempts at a workaround. Just clicked the link to the stream and it worked without a PPV pass. It was a very poor first effort on this revenue model for MLG.
You and me bro, pirating the high seas on our unmoral sail boat.
|
On February 27 2012 13:06 TheSir wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 12:51 fiveohfive wrote:
Honestly, if the community wants e-sport to "move forward," steps like this need to be taken.
I don't know abou you guys, but in Australia you pay around $20 to see a football game that only lasts for an HOUR!
However, if you want to relate this to gaming (e-sports or whatever), people pay around $15 p/month to play an MMORPG game, such as WOW and RIFT.
Stop being so damn stingy, MLG provide a quality tournament and in todays world there is no such thing as a free lunch. Thats how it is. If you are 15 years old, go and get a job after school, or ask your mum and dad for money.
$20 really is nothing. Last time i will explain cause people dont seem to get it. Yeah watching a football game easily cost $20 dollars or more and thats ok if you are a big time fan, but if you can see the same players for free guess what, no one is going to pay a game thats $20 dollars to watch. And $20 dollars is nothing indeed but if you want to grow esport you have to attract a audience thats watch/enjoy other things as well. Like me i like watching SC2 but i also pay for other stuff i like to watch. For example, i already pay 250 dollars a year for watching home games in the stadium from my football club and i pay 20 dollars a month to see the away matches on tv. Im a big football fan so i want to see other leagues from other country's as well so another 15 dollars a month, but i also love watching tv shows so netflix it is and i also love NBA/UFC so i have to see that to. I dont mind paying for content at all (offcourse i also download a lot of stuff) but another $20 dollars for something that i like to watch is to much and i have to choose then and since SC2 is not at the top of my lists i just simple don't watch it if i cant see if for free or for a price that makes sense to me. For me it's not just $20 dollars it's +$20 dollars and thats a big difference.
Well I guess it depends on every individuals situation then doesn't it. I don't go to see my footy team live at their home stadium just because I feel watching it at home is much better.
The only PPV I pay for is UFC and thats it. Because I ENJOY it. I payed for MLG PPV, because I ENJOY it.
Everyone has different priorities.
At the end of the day, people will always whine and bitch when they know there is a snowballs chance they can get it for free. To those I say (puts shades on) DEAL WITH IT!
For the rest of us, lets watch e-sports prosper.
|
On February 27 2012 13:11 esotericc wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 13:09 Tektos wrote:On February 27 2012 12:34 Mr. Black wrote:On February 27 2012 12:31 MajorityofOne wrote:On February 27 2012 12:29 Mr. Black wrote:On February 27 2012 12:05 foxSC wrote:On February 27 2012 12:04 di3alot wrote:On February 27 2012 11:54 foxSC wrote:On February 27 2012 11:53 Astro-Penguin wrote:On February 27 2012 11:42 dsousa wrote:
[quote]
Wrong is when you do tangible damage to tangible things. Not when your computer interprets bits sent to it via a url.
I had a great MLG weekend, and I still have $20 in my pocket :D
Probably some guy guy laid by 2 chicks while watching the stream for free...... do you hate him even more?
The FACTS IS: You didn't have to pay to watch MLG!
You did. You decided to.... don't be mad at the people smart enough to know that the pay wall would be made of paper . Never knew people were actually this ignorant In my eyes hes smarter than you. He got for free what you paid for. smarter rly? do you rly. think the only reason why i choose to pay for it its because im stupid. Yes, yes i do. why else pay for something you can get for free? also, dont feed me straight lines please haha How's this for a straight line, Fox? Your moral bankruptcy is founded on an inability to imagine the value of people besides yourself. Your friends and loved ones will leave you when you repeatedly demonstrate that your interest in them is solely due to what they do for you. You will die alone, long after you have been forgotten, having contributed nothing of value to anyone. On the plus side, you will have gotten a few things for free that other people paid for. The stealing/piracy/workaround itself is not nearly as distasteful as the inability to realize its wrongness, coupled with a belief that giving value to another person's efforts makes you "stupid." Its a perfect storm of shitty personality traits. Hopefully you are like 13 years old and just young and immature -- you can still change. If not, enjoy your lonely, parasitic existence. Dude seriously? Go take a walk or something, the internet is starting to get to you. Agreed. Was trying to be funny, but failed -- too mean. I deleted post. I disagree, I feel your comments were completely warranted. foxSC is either trolling you really hard or has no concept of how the world works. If everyone was of his opinion content like this just WOULD NOT EXIST because it would be impossible to earn money from it. And after all, it is a business. Except tons of content DOES exist for free
For now. But I think everyone has said over and over that they do not make enough money off of adds. Many people said, like Artosis and DJWheat, that the PPV model was coming. Every part of SC2 can't be free forever. There has to be some content that people are willing to pay directly for.
|
I paid, but I won't do it again. Every 'last battle' lagged like crazy, and I cannot fathom why they would use Lag.t… err.. Twitch.tv.
|
On February 27 2012 13:14 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 13:13 Kaitlin wrote:
Here's what I think MLG should do:
1) Drop the PPV from $20 to $5. Lots of streamers offer subscriptions, which are basically nothing but a token of support to the streamer, and people seem willing to pay this amount. So, many people people who wouldn't pay $20 would be willing to cough up $5.
2) Adjust the costs of the event accordingly. Prize pools reduced. Perhaps production quality. Less $ spent on casters. Probably will need to cut out the expense of paying for people to travel to the event to play, so many top Koreans won't participate.
3) The level of play is reduced drastically. The production quality is reduced drastically. The casting quality is reduced. Hell, maybe it will drop low enough that I might even be offered the job.
4) We get what we pay for and everybody's happy. the palyers arent happy becuase they cant attend the viewers arent happy becuase there arent good players the employees arent happy becuase they dont get paid
exactly
|
On February 27 2012 12:52 MajorityofOne wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 12:38 Kharnage wrote:On February 27 2012 12:28 farside604 wrote:
From the poll, seems like most people watched MLG without paying but the thread is mostly people who paid for it. Also interesting is a sub poll where many people said they would indeed pay if the price was lower. So much unlike what this thread has turned into, I don't think its the principle of paying vs piracy at issue here but rather that MLG might have simply charged too much. I wonder how many of the people who are currently grand standing against piracy if the pricepoint was 50 or even 100 dollars. I didn't pay, I didn't watch. I knew with my real life commitments I wouldn't get to watch enough to make it worth $20 to me personally. That doesn't make me any less pissed off, no, fucking outraged that there are pricks on here proud of themselves for not paying. This is team fucking liquid forums guys. You are meant to be the hardcore of the SC2 e-sports community. The people who really care, and you don't give a fuck. Through some weird twist of logic you think you're entitled to shit you're not fucking entitled too and then you're proud that you could sneak in the back door. This is one of those moments where everyone should be able to look at a situation and say "hey, this is the right thing to do, and this is the wrong thing to do" and so many people here just failed miserably. Honestly, the comments on this thread are fucking depressing. Where is this mysterious entitlement and pride? I took what was there to be taken. I'm not proud, just indifferent, had I not watched MLG for free I'd have watched the literally endless amount of free SC2 content still to be watched. There is literally so much free everything available that a person could go a lifetime without paying for entertainment...I suppose that's "entitlement" if you like. But at the same time, do you actually think it's a sound business model to charge people for what they can already have for free? Is it intelligent of us to support that kind of logic? Get a grip
You can go to any boxing gym and watch two nobodies box for free. People pay big money to watch big prize fights. It's not ridiculous to think that PPV could work. You watched MLG because it was the best show on (or you would have just watched the IPL TAC or Assembly like I did). Oh, and by watching MLG you denied the free alternatives ad revenue.
The annoying sense of entitlement comes from the idea that MLG can spend a ton of money to fly the top players across the world to have a tournament in a fucking New York skyscraper, and people think they have a right to see it for free. You don't get that for free. For free you get Destiny playing LoL and CatsPajamas and DOA and Gretorp trying not spoil replays that happened weeks ago.
There are two passionate groups of people that understand ethics and have vastly different ideas about how SC2 tournaments should be produced and consumed. The good people that believe in a freemium model watched Assembly and saw a great tournament and watched the stream hit 65k plus viewers. The good people that believe in a PPV model paid $20 to watch a unique tournament stacked with the most star-studded international lineup ever.
Then we find out that there is this MASSIVE group of people that watched the $20 stream for free. They didn't put ad revenue into any e-sports (Winter Arena was commercial free, right? Please tell me it was.). THEN they start making fun of the "suckers" that paid to support an amazing tournament.
The soundness of the MLG business decisions is irrelevant. There were two ethical choices you could make this weekend, both of which supported e-sports. Pay and watch PPV or don't pay and watch ads.
The fact that there were so many AMAZING free alternatives just underlines how shitty it is to watch the PPV stream for free.
|
On February 27 2012 13:12 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 13:07 groms wrote:
I don't understand why people are so upset that some people watched this event for free. Shouldn't you be upset at MLG & Twitch who totally botched the paywall?
I watched Assembly this weekend and it was great. I also watched the first set of the grand finals of MLG because I heard it was possible(via chrome etc.) After about 5 mins of lag and problems with twitch I decided to close the stream and wait for next week.
I did not see the full event but I have always had lag issues with twitch when there are significant amounts of people on the stream. I have a great computer and live in an urban center with good speeds. I can't fathom why I would ever want to pay for events in future when the stream provided is unavailable in consistent high quality.
It is mostly the entitlement and the need for tell people that they watch it for free that bothers me. If you want to bypass the pay wall, fine. It's scummy, but I guess I can deal with it. If you want to post about it in the forums with people who paid, you cannot be shocked if those people call you a freeloading scrub. It is really basic logic: If you make a crappy pay wall; people will pirate your stuff If you talk about pirating stuff people paid for and supported; they might voice their displeasure
The title of thread states "how did you watch MLG?", includes a poll option "Watched it and bypassed the paywall", followed by a comment by the OP "be 100% honest".
It's not that they're feeling the need to rub it in your face. And I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be posting crap like "I'm entitled to free shit" if people who did pay would stop calling them "freeloading scrubs".
|
On February 27 2012 13:13 esotericc wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 13:12 Plansix wrote:On February 27 2012 13:07 groms wrote:
I don't understand why people are so upset that some people watched this event for free. Shouldn't you be upset at MLG & Twitch who totally botched the paywall?
I watched Assembly this weekend and it was great. I also watched the first set of the grand finals of MLG because I heard it was possible(via chrome etc.) After about 5 mins of lag and problems with twitch I decided to close the stream and wait for next week.
I did not see the full event but I have always had lag issues with twitch when there are significant amounts of people on the stream. I have a great computer and live in an urban center with good speeds. I can't fathom why I would ever want to pay for events in future when the stream provided is unavailable in consistent high quality.
It is mostly the entitlement and the need for tell people that they watch it for free that bothers me. If you want to bypass the pay wall, fine. It's scummy, but I guess I can deal with it. If you want to post about it in the forums with people who paid, you cannot be shocked if those people call you a freeloading scrub. It is really basic logic: If you make a crappy pay wall; people will pirate your stuff If you talk about pirating stuff people paid for and supported; they might voice their displeasure The thread specifically asked people how they watched it....
Obviously it was a trap, so these meanies could hurt our pirate feelings :D
|
Lowering prices will not work. Look at all these people who think that paying a dime is a scam. If MLG thinks that's what their content should be valued that's their decision to make. If you really think you can increase their revenue, then maybe you're really smart and should get hired by them to do that.
I would be willing to bet that at $20 they had the most profitable MLG event yet.
|
I said this before, but if Arenas kept the free low quality stream option I would be more than happy to spend the $20. The PPV, to me, just communicates that MLG doesn't trust the community to support them (financially) if the community can choose to get the product for free. Maybe they are right, but I would definitely support them, while I did not support them this time due to the lack of free stream. Not to mention that those who want a free stream will just get it anyway, whether or not MLG provides a legal way to do it.
|
On February 27 2012 13:13 esotericc wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 13:12 Plansix wrote:On February 27 2012 13:07 groms wrote:
I don't understand why people are so upset that some people watched this event for free. Shouldn't you be upset at MLG & Twitch who totally botched the paywall?
I watched Assembly this weekend and it was great. I also watched the first set of the grand finals of MLG because I heard it was possible(via chrome etc.) After about 5 mins of lag and problems with twitch I decided to close the stream and wait for next week.
I did not see the full event but I have always had lag issues with twitch when there are significant amounts of people on the stream. I have a great computer and live in an urban center with good speeds. I can't fathom why I would ever want to pay for events in future when the stream provided is unavailable in consistent high quality.
It is mostly the entitlement and the need for tell people that they watch it for free that bothers me. If you want to bypass the pay wall, fine. It's scummy, but I guess I can deal with it. If you want to post about it in the forums with people who paid, you cannot be shocked if those people call you a freeloading scrub. It is really basic logic: If you make a crappy pay wall; people will pirate your stuff If you talk about pirating stuff people paid for and supported; they might voice their displeasure The thread specifically asked people how they watched it....
Ok, so you are required to respond? Are you required to stay you are entitled to the stream because you could easily bypass the paywall? Are you really shocked at the response from people who paid for the stream and wanted to support MLG? Do you really believe that you can justify it to them?
|
On February 27 2012 13:20 how2TL wrote:
Lowering prices will not work. Look at all these people who think that paying a dime is a scam. If MLG thinks that's what their content should be valued that's their decision to make. If you really think you can increase their revenue, then maybe you're really smart and should get hired by them to do that.
I would be willing to bet that at $20 they had the most profitable MLG event yet.
I'm seeing more comments claiming that they would pay if the price was lowered, than people saying they would never pay to watch SC2.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
