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On February 27 2012 13:28 how2TL wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 13:21 Xpace wrote:On February 27 2012 13:20 how2TL wrote:
Lowering prices will not work. Look at all these people who think that paying a dime is a scam. If MLG thinks that's what their content should be valued that's their decision to make. If you really think you can increase their revenue, then maybe you're really smart and should get hired by them to do that.
I would be willing to bet that at $20 they had the most profitable MLG event yet. I'm seeing more comments claiming that they would pay if the price was lowered, than people saying they would never pay to watch SC2. Saying that is not the same as doing it. MLG obviously thought that they'd get the most value by having it at $20. Look at this poll. 20% paid $20. Assuming that's representative, that's amazing. 20% of people paying $20 is better than 100% of people paying $0. Do you think 40% of people would pay if it was $10? Maybe, but I wouldn't bet on it. Do you think 80% of people would pay if it was $5? Hell no. MLG had a very successful pilot run.
Wait, what? Almost half in the poll said they didn't watch it. From that we can infer that they didn't know about the broken paywall, and that they simply didn't watch the tournament. How is people not watching MLG making it successful for them? Look at this new thread. People not watching MLG means it's unsuccessful, and Sundance saying there's going to be an event in June doesn't necessarily mean this particular model of $20 PPV was a success. He could announce that MLG would go back to its original methods for all we know.
Assuming they fix the broken paywall, 20% viewership is terrible. Does nobody remember MLG announcing record-breaking viewership after Providence? More viewers means more exposure, more exposure means growth of esports, growth of esports means more people getting into watching and/or playing SC2. It's even worse when other tournaments like Assembly (that ran at roughly the same time) and the newly announced IPL4 is providing very similar, high-quality content for free.
So yes, it does matter when people say they would pay if the price is lower. It doesn't matter the individual isn't telling the truth, what matters is there's a LOT of these comments, so the general idea is definitely way more popular than maintaining this $20 PPV model.
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On February 27 2012 13:35 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 13:30 scaban84 wrote:On February 27 2012 12:43 Silidons wrote:On February 27 2012 12:33 scaban84 wrote:On February 27 2012 12:29 nGBeast wrote:On February 27 2012 12:21 foxSC wrote:On February 27 2012 12:20 bovineblitz wrote:On February 27 2012 10:28 KalWarkov wrote:
so many ppl killing e-sport. wonder how much they spend on alcohol during that time - maybe more then 20 bucks?
either pay or dont watch, everything else is unacceptable. but mlg also has to do sth against that "privacy mode" free watching - i payed 20 bucks, it was a great event and worth every cent, and still i hate that i couldve watched it without paying anything just as well. We got alcohol at a fair price, not SC2 pro games at an inflated price. Truth right there. Everyone being high and mighty in this thread is just angry they got ripped off 20$ for what was, and should be, free. No, I'm glad I paid $20. I'm not a whiny teenager who think's all content should be free, nor do I think everyone is entitled to a free stream. If you guys want this to actually work, (esports) steps like this need to be taken. I for one commend Sundance for going through with this and not backing down to the pitchforks and sticking to their guns, nothing better then a bunch of angry teenagers crying because they actually have to PAY for content because MLG wanted to SEE if they could actually make a return on a investment. But god forbid you people would actually know MORE about MLG's finical ability amirite? I remember when I was that age. I thought I was such a rebel by downloading tons of warez and getting stuff for free. This track can end up making you a shallow/greedy sociopath that doesn't value other people's hard work. You take everything for granted. Cool story, I'm 20 years old and pirate most software I have (OS, AntiVir, music, etc) but I have however found bands that I have ended up paying money for since I found their music to be to my liking, and infact I would have never found them if it weren't for torrents. I have paid for probably 10+ albums that I never would have if it wasn't for TPB. Criminal rationalization. Most people that justify torrents say that if they use the product for financial gain, they would buy the product. But it seems like you are justified in stealing everything because you bought 10 albums in your life. Wow. Don't be shocked by them, because there is nothing you can do. In internet is filled with the entitled and because of them we get bills like SOPA that we have to beat down. They have no money and feel that stealing stuff is fine because they can't really get caught. They don't shoplift because that would be risky.
So because somebody says I should pay X for something, I should? Entitlement? You're breathing, right? Well, you should have to pay the government for that, because, I mean, people have to pay for things. You cant just expect to get things for free. I mean, look at bottled water, how long is it going to be before we have to pay for unbottled water? Pretty fucking stupid logic, right? yeah.
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Judging from what I got from paying for this event, I will not want want to pay for another MLG Event. I want not satisfied with the service provided and the event might as well have been an online event if there was no crowd or anything. If the service continues like this, I highly doubt I will ever pay for another MLG event. The stream was laggy when it was live and there were many glitches that made it hard for me to watch the games even though I payed. I will only watch live free events from now on =(.
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Not sure I understand the argument that paying MLG $20 helps e-sports. To me, e-Sports needs to grow and for that to happen, it first needs to increase it's viewership beyond the hardcore. There will come a point where high priced PPV is viable and not damaging to the scene - but we're not there yet - we need inclusive events, not walled gardens. Freemium works. They would be advised to use it. Old media models of exclusive PPV won't have long term success in such a fledgeling industry.
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On February 27 2012 13:39 el_dawg wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 13:07 Forikorder wrote:On February 27 2012 13:04 el_dawg wrote:
I didn't watch the event, however for past MLG's I've usually tuned in for an hour or two each weekend. What I don't understand about the entire pay per view thing is, if you have an audience of mostly 20-30 year old males with enough disposable income to pay to watch other people play a computer game, why are these organizations not rolling in the advertising dough? This seems like the absolute best demographic possible. I don't think e-sports organizations have done enough to present useful adds to their viewers. Many of the adds I see are for things this demographic would never be interested in, there was even a while on GOM where all the ads I got were in Spanish (mostly for laundry detergent if i recall). most people use adblockers and even if everyone who watched didnt it still wouldnt generate enough revenue Hmm, so are the production costs (including flying, prizes and broadcasting) just too much for the current model? How important is the fact that the players are sitting in the same room to viewers? For events like home story cup, I feel that added a lot. However in most other events the players are locked in the booths and hard to see anyway, only coming out for the occasional awkward post game interview. Not to mention jet lag and fatigue from traveling negatively affecting players. I guess unless events are really planning to showcase the players (as opposed to just the games) maybe they should reconsider how much they spend on travel.
Any serious tournament has the players at least in the same studio. This comes simply down to making the competition fair. Whether MLG has to pay for their expenses or not is a different matter. If they don't, then maybe some of the top players don't come. Paying expenses ensures a quality lineup and a justifiable $20 pay model.
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On February 27 2012 13:41 Xpace wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 13:28 how2TL wrote:On February 27 2012 13:21 Xpace wrote:On February 27 2012 13:20 how2TL wrote:
Lowering prices will not work. Look at all these people who think that paying a dime is a scam. If MLG thinks that's what their content should be valued that's their decision to make. If you really think you can increase their revenue, then maybe you're really smart and should get hired by them to do that.
I would be willing to bet that at $20 they had the most profitable MLG event yet. I'm seeing more comments claiming that they would pay if the price was lowered, than people saying they would never pay to watch SC2. Saying that is not the same as doing it. MLG obviously thought that they'd get the most value by having it at $20. Look at this poll. 20% paid $20. Assuming that's representative, that's amazing. 20% of people paying $20 is better than 100% of people paying $0. Do you think 40% of people would pay if it was $10? Maybe, but I wouldn't bet on it. Do you think 80% of people would pay if it was $5? Hell no. MLG had a very successful pilot run. Wait, what? Almost half in the poll said they didn't watch it. From that we can infer that they didn't know about the broken paywall, and that they simply didn't watch the tournament. How is people not watching MLG making it successful for them? Look at this new thread. People not watching MLG means it's unsuccessful, and Sundance saying there's going to be an event in June doesn't necessarily mean this particular model of $20 PPV was a success. He could announce that MLG would go back to its original methods for all we know. Assuming they fix the broken paywall, 20% viewership is terrible. Does nobody remember MLG announcing record-breaking viewership after Providence? More viewers means more exposure, more exposure means growth of esports, growth of esports means more people getting into watching and/or playing SC2. It's even worse when other tournaments like Assembly (that ran at roughly the same time) and the newly announced IPL4 is providing very similar, high-quality content for free. So yes, it does matter when people say they would pay if the price is lower. It doesn't matter the individual isn't telling the truth, what matters is there's a LOT of these comments, so the general idea is definitely way more popular than maintaining this $20 PPV model.
Edit:
On February 27 2012 13:42 ColtSeavers wrote:
Not sure I understand the argument that paying MLG $20 helps e-sports. To me, e-Sports needs to grow and for that to happen, it first needs to increase it's viewership beyond the hardcore. There will come a point where high priced PPV is viable and not damaging to the scene - but we're not there yet - we need inclusive events, not walled gardens.
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On February 27 2012 13:07 groms wrote:
I don't understand why people are so upset that some people watched this event for free. Shouldn't you be upset at MLG & Twitch who totally botched the paywall?
I watched Assembly this weekend and it was great. I also watched the first set of the grand finals of MLG because I heard it was possible(via chrome etc.) After about 5 mins of lag and problems with twitch I decided to close the stream and wait for next week.
I did not see the full event but I have always had lag issues with twitch when there are significant amounts of people on the stream. I have a great computer and live in an urban center with good speeds. I can't fathom why I would ever want to pay for events in future when the stream provided is unavailable in consistent high quality.
Not all people are upset that some people watched this event for free. Some people are just upset with themselves or regret spending $20 on something they can possibly watch for free which is really depressing.
And I don't buy into this "well, at least I support esports" phrase, MLG is not a charity where people buy their products because of pity or they want to support their passion, it's a business and people want every cents they pay worth.
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On February 27 2012 13:42 allerion wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 13:35 Plansix wrote:On February 27 2012 13:30 scaban84 wrote:On February 27 2012 12:43 Silidons wrote:On February 27 2012 12:33 scaban84 wrote:On February 27 2012 12:29 nGBeast wrote:On February 27 2012 12:21 foxSC wrote:On February 27 2012 12:20 bovineblitz wrote:On February 27 2012 10:28 KalWarkov wrote:
so many ppl killing e-sport. wonder how much they spend on alcohol during that time - maybe more then 20 bucks?
either pay or dont watch, everything else is unacceptable. but mlg also has to do sth against that "privacy mode" free watching - i payed 20 bucks, it was a great event and worth every cent, and still i hate that i couldve watched it without paying anything just as well. We got alcohol at a fair price, not SC2 pro games at an inflated price. Truth right there. Everyone being high and mighty in this thread is just angry they got ripped off 20$ for what was, and should be, free. No, I'm glad I paid $20. I'm not a whiny teenager who think's all content should be free, nor do I think everyone is entitled to a free stream. If you guys want this to actually work, (esports) steps like this need to be taken. I for one commend Sundance for going through with this and not backing down to the pitchforks and sticking to their guns, nothing better then a bunch of angry teenagers crying because they actually have to PAY for content because MLG wanted to SEE if they could actually make a return on a investment. But god forbid you people would actually know MORE about MLG's finical ability amirite? I remember when I was that age. I thought I was such a rebel by downloading tons of warez and getting stuff for free. This track can end up making you a shallow/greedy sociopath that doesn't value other people's hard work. You take everything for granted. Cool story, I'm 20 years old and pirate most software I have (OS, AntiVir, music, etc) but I have however found bands that I have ended up paying money for since I found their music to be to my liking, and infact I would have never found them if it weren't for torrents. I have paid for probably 10+ albums that I never would have if it wasn't for TPB. Criminal rationalization. Most people that justify torrents say that if they use the product for financial gain, they would buy the product. But it seems like you are justified in stealing everything because you bought 10 albums in your life. Wow. Don't be shocked by them, because there is nothing you can do. In internet is filled with the entitled and because of them we get bills like SOPA that we have to beat down. They have no money and feel that stealing stuff is fine because they can't really get caught. They don't shoplift because that would be risky. So because somebody says I should pay X for something, I should? Entitlement? You're breathing, right? Well, you should have to pay the government for that, because, I mean, people have to pay for things. You cant just expect to get things for free. I mean, look at bottled water, how long is it going to be before we have to pay for unbottled water? Pretty fucking stupid logic, right? yeah.
No, but if someone asks you to pay X for something, you don't and take it anyways, that's kind of a dick move. That's entitlement.
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I only watched today, didn't pay for it, but I would have if I got paid weekly instead of bi-weekly D:. I only get about $100 every 2 weeks, 60$ of which goes into gas. I worked a little bit more these past couple weeks, but I didn't realize that Winter Arena was coming up so soon, so I didn't get my check in time ;;.
I didn't know before today that all I needed to do on the mlg site was to change the resolution a few times for the payment page to not pop up :O.
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first major event of sc2 since beta I haven't watched, hopefully they change their business model
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On February 27 2012 13:46 BoxingKangaroo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 13:42 allerion wrote:On February 27 2012 13:35 Plansix wrote:On February 27 2012 13:30 scaban84 wrote:On February 27 2012 12:43 Silidons wrote:On February 27 2012 12:33 scaban84 wrote:On February 27 2012 12:29 nGBeast wrote:On February 27 2012 12:21 foxSC wrote:On February 27 2012 12:20 bovineblitz wrote:On February 27 2012 10:28 KalWarkov wrote:
so many ppl killing e-sport. wonder how much they spend on alcohol during that time - maybe more then 20 bucks?
either pay or dont watch, everything else is unacceptable. but mlg also has to do sth against that "privacy mode" free watching - i payed 20 bucks, it was a great event and worth every cent, and still i hate that i couldve watched it without paying anything just as well. We got alcohol at a fair price, not SC2 pro games at an inflated price. Truth right there. Everyone being high and mighty in this thread is just angry they got ripped off 20$ for what was, and should be, free. No, I'm glad I paid $20. I'm not a whiny teenager who think's all content should be free, nor do I think everyone is entitled to a free stream. If you guys want this to actually work, (esports) steps like this need to be taken. I for one commend Sundance for going through with this and not backing down to the pitchforks and sticking to their guns, nothing better then a bunch of angry teenagers crying because they actually have to PAY for content because MLG wanted to SEE if they could actually make a return on a investment. But god forbid you people would actually know MORE about MLG's finical ability amirite? I remember when I was that age. I thought I was such a rebel by downloading tons of warez and getting stuff for free. This track can end up making you a shallow/greedy sociopath that doesn't value other people's hard work. You take everything for granted. Cool story, I'm 20 years old and pirate most software I have (OS, AntiVir, music, etc) but I have however found bands that I have ended up paying money for since I found their music to be to my liking, and infact I would have never found them if it weren't for torrents. I have paid for probably 10+ albums that I never would have if it wasn't for TPB. Criminal rationalization. Most people that justify torrents say that if they use the product for financial gain, they would buy the product. But it seems like you are justified in stealing everything because you bought 10 albums in your life. Wow. Don't be shocked by them, because there is nothing you can do. In internet is filled with the entitled and because of them we get bills like SOPA that we have to beat down. They have no money and feel that stealing stuff is fine because they can't really get caught. They don't shoplift because that would be risky. So because somebody says I should pay X for something, I should? Entitlement? You're breathing, right? Well, you should have to pay the government for that, because, I mean, people have to pay for things. You cant just expect to get things for free. I mean, look at bottled water, how long is it going to be before we have to pay for unbottled water? Pretty fucking stupid logic, right? yeah. No, but if someone asks you to pay X for something, you don't and take it anyways, that's kind of a dick move. That's entitlement.
If I barter with them and give them what we both can agree it is worth, its not.
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On February 27 2012 13:45 Ampster wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 13:07 groms wrote:
I don't understand why people are so upset that some people watched this event for free. Shouldn't you be upset at MLG & Twitch who totally botched the paywall?
I watched Assembly this weekend and it was great. I also watched the first set of the grand finals of MLG because I heard it was possible(via chrome etc.) After about 5 mins of lag and problems with twitch I decided to close the stream and wait for next week.
I did not see the full event but I have always had lag issues with twitch when there are significant amounts of people on the stream. I have a great computer and live in an urban center with good speeds. I can't fathom why I would ever want to pay for events in future when the stream provided is unavailable in consistent high quality.
Not all people are upset that some people watched this event for free. Some people are just upset with themselves or regret spending $20 on something they can possibly watch for free which is really depressing. And I don't buy into this "well, at least I support esports" phrase, MLG is not a charity where people buy their products because of pity or they want to support their passion, it's a business and people want every cents they pay worth.
Here's my position. Piracy is wrong. But I don't really care if someone somewhere pirates the latest Hollywood movie. It's wrong and I know that, but it doesn't affect me personally.
However someone pirating MLG streams I see as giving the big middle finger to an organisation that I feel some affinity for, has given me hours and hours of quality entertainment and that I want to see succeed.
The other aspect for me is how immaturely the community has reacted to the PPV model. I like Starcraft, I count it as a hobby, but the community is starting to sour the whole game for me. Yeah that makes me angry.
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On February 27 2012 13:48 allerion wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 13:46 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On February 27 2012 13:42 allerion wrote:On February 27 2012 13:35 Plansix wrote:On February 27 2012 13:30 scaban84 wrote:On February 27 2012 12:43 Silidons wrote:On February 27 2012 12:33 scaban84 wrote:On February 27 2012 12:29 nGBeast wrote:On February 27 2012 12:21 foxSC wrote:On February 27 2012 12:20 bovineblitz wrote:
[quote]
We got alcohol at a fair price, not SC2 pro games at an inflated price. Truth right there. Everyone being high and mighty in this thread is just angry they got ripped off 20$ for what was, and should be, free. No, I'm glad I paid $20. I'm not a whiny teenager who think's all content should be free, nor do I think everyone is entitled to a free stream. If you guys want this to actually work, (esports) steps like this need to be taken. I for one commend Sundance for going through with this and not backing down to the pitchforks and sticking to their guns, nothing better then a bunch of angry teenagers crying because they actually have to PAY for content because MLG wanted to SEE if they could actually make a return on a investment. But god forbid you people would actually know MORE about MLG's finical ability amirite? I remember when I was that age. I thought I was such a rebel by downloading tons of warez and getting stuff for free. This track can end up making you a shallow/greedy sociopath that doesn't value other people's hard work. You take everything for granted. Cool story, I'm 20 years old and pirate most software I have (OS, AntiVir, music, etc) but I have however found bands that I have ended up paying money for since I found their music to be to my liking, and infact I would have never found them if it weren't for torrents. I have paid for probably 10+ albums that I never would have if it wasn't for TPB. Criminal rationalization. Most people that justify torrents say that if they use the product for financial gain, they would buy the product. But it seems like you are justified in stealing everything because you bought 10 albums in your life. Wow. Don't be shocked by them, because there is nothing you can do. In internet is filled with the entitled and because of them we get bills like SOPA that we have to beat down. They have no money and feel that stealing stuff is fine because they can't really get caught. They don't shoplift because that would be risky. So because somebody says I should pay X for something, I should? Entitlement? You're breathing, right? Well, you should have to pay the government for that, because, I mean, people have to pay for things. You cant just expect to get things for free. I mean, look at bottled water, how long is it going to be before we have to pay for unbottled water? Pretty fucking stupid logic, right? yeah. No, but if someone asks you to pay X for something, you don't and take it anyways, that's kind of a dick move. That's entitlement. If I barter with them and give them what we both can agree it is worth, its not.
Well sure. Did you try? I'll bet MLG would have come back with, '$20, take it or leave it'. At which point if you take it without paying - entitlement.
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Didn't pay or watch, but honestly if I had known about whatever workaround was with the 'cookie/privacy mode', I think I would have done that, if only for 1-2 games.
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On February 27 2012 13:10 Xpace wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 13:09 Tektos wrote:On February 27 2012 12:34 Mr. Black wrote:On February 27 2012 12:31 MajorityofOne wrote:On February 27 2012 12:29 Mr. Black wrote:On February 27 2012 12:05 foxSC wrote:On February 27 2012 12:04 di3alot wrote:On February 27 2012 11:54 foxSC wrote:On February 27 2012 11:53 Astro-Penguin wrote:On February 27 2012 11:42 dsousa wrote:
[quote]
Wrong is when you do tangible damage to tangible things. Not when your computer interprets bits sent to it via a url.
I had a great MLG weekend, and I still have $20 in my pocket :D
Probably some guy guy laid by 2 chicks while watching the stream for free...... do you hate him even more?
The FACTS IS: You didn't have to pay to watch MLG!
You did. You decided to.... don't be mad at the people smart enough to know that the pay wall would be made of paper . Never knew people were actually this ignorant In my eyes hes smarter than you. He got for free what you paid for. smarter rly? do you rly. think the only reason why i choose to pay for it its because im stupid. Yes, yes i do. why else pay for something you can get for free? also, dont feed me straight lines please haha How's this for a straight line, Fox? Your moral bankruptcy is founded on an inability to imagine the value of people besides yourself. Your friends and loved ones will leave you when you repeatedly demonstrate that your interest in them is solely due to what they do for you. You will die alone, long after you have been forgotten, having contributed nothing of value to anyone. On the plus side, you will have gotten a few things for free that other people paid for. The stealing/piracy/workaround itself is not nearly as distasteful as the inability to realize its wrongness, coupled with a belief that giving value to another person's efforts makes you "stupid." Its a perfect storm of shitty personality traits. Hopefully you are like 13 years old and just young and immature -- you can still change. If not, enjoy your lonely, parasitic existence. Dude seriously? Go take a walk or something, the internet is starting to get to you. Agreed. Was trying to be funny, but failed -- too mean. I deleted post. I disagree, I feel your comments were completely warranted. foxSC is either trolling you really hard or has no concept of how the world works. If everyone was of his opinion content like this just WOULD NOT EXIST because it would be impossible to earn money from it. And after all, it is a business. There are no major tournaments out there that offer free streams. Oh, wait...
Yes but they also have paid services - if everyone shared his point of view nobody would take up the paid services and they would adblock anything they could and the tournaments just wouldn't make any money.
On February 27 2012 13:11 esotericc wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 13:09 Tektos wrote:On February 27 2012 12:34 Mr. Black wrote:On February 27 2012 12:31 MajorityofOne wrote:On February 27 2012 12:29 Mr. Black wrote:On February 27 2012 12:05 foxSC wrote:On February 27 2012 12:04 di3alot wrote:On February 27 2012 11:54 foxSC wrote:On February 27 2012 11:53 Astro-Penguin wrote:On February 27 2012 11:42 dsousa wrote:
[quote]
Wrong is when you do tangible damage to tangible things. Not when your computer interprets bits sent to it via a url.
I had a great MLG weekend, and I still have $20 in my pocket :D
Probably some guy guy laid by 2 chicks while watching the stream for free...... do you hate him even more?
The FACTS IS: You didn't have to pay to watch MLG!
You did. You decided to.... don't be mad at the people smart enough to know that the pay wall would be made of paper . Never knew people were actually this ignorant In my eyes hes smarter than you. He got for free what you paid for. smarter rly? do you rly. think the only reason why i choose to pay for it its because im stupid. Yes, yes i do. why else pay for something you can get for free? also, dont feed me straight lines please haha How's this for a straight line, Fox? Your moral bankruptcy is founded on an inability to imagine the value of people besides yourself. Your friends and loved ones will leave you when you repeatedly demonstrate that your interest in them is solely due to what they do for you. You will die alone, long after you have been forgotten, having contributed nothing of value to anyone. On the plus side, you will have gotten a few things for free that other people paid for. The stealing/piracy/workaround itself is not nearly as distasteful as the inability to realize its wrongness, coupled with a belief that giving value to another person's efforts makes you "stupid." Its a perfect storm of shitty personality traits. Hopefully you are like 13 years old and just young and immature -- you can still change. If not, enjoy your lonely, parasitic existence. Dude seriously? Go take a walk or something, the internet is starting to get to you. Agreed. Was trying to be funny, but failed -- too mean. I deleted post. I disagree, I feel your comments were completely warranted. foxSC is either trolling you really hard or has no concept of how the world works. If everyone was of his opinion content like this just WOULD NOT EXIST because it would be impossible to earn money from it. And after all, it is a business. Except tons of content DOES exist for free
It isn't the free content that keeps these businesses up and running.
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On February 27 2012 13:42 allerion wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 13:35 Plansix wrote:On February 27 2012 13:30 scaban84 wrote:On February 27 2012 12:43 Silidons wrote:On February 27 2012 12:33 scaban84 wrote:On February 27 2012 12:29 nGBeast wrote:On February 27 2012 12:21 foxSC wrote:On February 27 2012 12:20 bovineblitz wrote:On February 27 2012 10:28 KalWarkov wrote:
so many ppl killing e-sport. wonder how much they spend on alcohol during that time - maybe more then 20 bucks?
either pay or dont watch, everything else is unacceptable. but mlg also has to do sth against that "privacy mode" free watching - i payed 20 bucks, it was a great event and worth every cent, and still i hate that i couldve watched it without paying anything just as well. We got alcohol at a fair price, not SC2 pro games at an inflated price. Truth right there. Everyone being high and mighty in this thread is just angry they got ripped off 20$ for what was, and should be, free. No, I'm glad I paid $20. I'm not a whiny teenager who think's all content should be free, nor do I think everyone is entitled to a free stream. If you guys want this to actually work, (esports) steps like this need to be taken. I for one commend Sundance for going through with this and not backing down to the pitchforks and sticking to their guns, nothing better then a bunch of angry teenagers crying because they actually have to PAY for content because MLG wanted to SEE if they could actually make a return on a investment. But god forbid you people would actually know MORE about MLG's finical ability amirite? I remember when I was that age. I thought I was such a rebel by downloading tons of warez and getting stuff for free. This track can end up making you a shallow/greedy sociopath that doesn't value other people's hard work. You take everything for granted. Cool story, I'm 20 years old and pirate most software I have (OS, AntiVir, music, etc) but I have however found bands that I have ended up paying money for since I found their music to be to my liking, and infact I would have never found them if it weren't for torrents. I have paid for probably 10+ albums that I never would have if it wasn't for TPB. Criminal rationalization. Most people that justify torrents say that if they use the product for financial gain, they would buy the product. But it seems like you are justified in stealing everything because you bought 10 albums in your life. Wow. Don't be shocked by them, because there is nothing you can do. In internet is filled with the entitled and because of them we get bills like SOPA that we have to beat down. They have no money and feel that stealing stuff is fine because they can't really get caught. They don't shoplift because that would be risky. So because somebody says I should pay X for something, I should? Entitlement? You're breathing, right? Well, you should have to pay the government for that, because, I mean, people have to pay for things. You cant just expect to get things for free. I mean, look at bottled water, how long is it going to be before we have to pay for unbottled water? Pretty fucking stupid logic, right? yeah.
Did you seriously compare watching a Starcrat tourney or downloading stuff from the web to breathing?
Yeah there is some pretty stupid logic here....
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On February 27 2012 13:41 Xpace wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 13:28 how2TL wrote:On February 27 2012 13:21 Xpace wrote:On February 27 2012 13:20 how2TL wrote:
Lowering prices will not work. Look at all these people who think that paying a dime is a scam. If MLG thinks that's what their content should be valued that's their decision to make. If you really think you can increase their revenue, then maybe you're really smart and should get hired by them to do that.
I would be willing to bet that at $20 they had the most profitable MLG event yet. I'm seeing more comments claiming that they would pay if the price was lowered, than people saying they would never pay to watch SC2. Saying that is not the same as doing it. MLG obviously thought that they'd get the most value by having it at $20. Look at this poll. 20% paid $20. Assuming that's representative, that's amazing. 20% of people paying $20 is better than 100% of people paying $0. Do you think 40% of people would pay if it was $10? Maybe, but I wouldn't bet on it. Do you think 80% of people would pay if it was $5? Hell no. MLG had a very successful pilot run. Wait, what? Almost half in the poll said they didn't watch it. From that we can infer that they didn't know about the broken paywall, and that they simply didn't watch the tournament. How is people not watching MLG making it successful for them? Look at this new thread. People not watching MLG means it's unsuccessful, and Sundance saying there's going to be an event in June doesn't necessarily mean this particular model of $20 PPV was a success. He could announce that MLG would go back to its original methods for all we know. Assuming they fix the broken paywall, 20% viewership is terrible. Does nobody remember MLG announcing record-breaking viewership after Providence? More viewers means more exposure, more exposure means growth of esports, growth of esports means more people getting into watching and/or playing SC2. It's even worse when other tournaments like Assembly (that ran at roughly the same time) and the newly announced IPL4 is providing very similar, high-quality content for free. So yes, it does matter when people say they would pay if the price is lower. It doesn't matter the individual isn't telling the truth, what matters is there's a LOT of these comments, so the general idea is definitely way more popular than maintaining this $20 PPV model.
Actually, for PPV 20% is a really good result. Go listen to the latest state of the game and educate yourself.
That said, I would expect the next event to be $15 and the numbers compared. There will be a sweet spot where you get the max number of viewers who are interested in watching it while making the most profit. I could see future events dropping to $15, then $10, then back up to $15 as MLG work it out.
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So fast to crucify in this thread. If someone wasnt going to pay, they werent going to pay, i dont really care if they used a workaround. I can all but guarantee the work around people werent going to pay anyways, so it didnt hurt the passes sold, that is my opinion on the matter.
And on topic, I did not pay because I couldn't justify it being worth it to me personally. I am sure it was great, but that $20 is better spent on some gas in my situation. I watched ASUS ROG and checked updates on new tl homepage (awesome btw)
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On February 27 2012 13:48 allerion wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 13:46 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On February 27 2012 13:42 allerion wrote:On February 27 2012 13:35 Plansix wrote:On February 27 2012 13:30 scaban84 wrote:On February 27 2012 12:43 Silidons wrote:On February 27 2012 12:33 scaban84 wrote:On February 27 2012 12:29 nGBeast wrote:On February 27 2012 12:21 foxSC wrote:On February 27 2012 12:20 bovineblitz wrote:
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We got alcohol at a fair price, not SC2 pro games at an inflated price. Truth right there. Everyone being high and mighty in this thread is just angry they got ripped off 20$ for what was, and should be, free. No, I'm glad I paid $20. I'm not a whiny teenager who think's all content should be free, nor do I think everyone is entitled to a free stream. If you guys want this to actually work, (esports) steps like this need to be taken. I for one commend Sundance for going through with this and not backing down to the pitchforks and sticking to their guns, nothing better then a bunch of angry teenagers crying because they actually have to PAY for content because MLG wanted to SEE if they could actually make a return on a investment. But god forbid you people would actually know MORE about MLG's finical ability amirite? I remember when I was that age. I thought I was such a rebel by downloading tons of warez and getting stuff for free. This track can end up making you a shallow/greedy sociopath that doesn't value other people's hard work. You take everything for granted. Cool story, I'm 20 years old and pirate most software I have (OS, AntiVir, music, etc) but I have however found bands that I have ended up paying money for since I found their music to be to my liking, and infact I would have never found them if it weren't for torrents. I have paid for probably 10+ albums that I never would have if it wasn't for TPB. Criminal rationalization. Most people that justify torrents say that if they use the product for financial gain, they would buy the product. But it seems like you are justified in stealing everything because you bought 10 albums in your life. Wow. Don't be shocked by them, because there is nothing you can do. In internet is filled with the entitled and because of them we get bills like SOPA that we have to beat down. They have no money and feel that stealing stuff is fine because they can't really get caught. They don't shoplift because that would be risky. So because somebody says I should pay X for something, I should? Entitlement? You're breathing, right? Well, you should have to pay the government for that, because, I mean, people have to pay for things. You cant just expect to get things for free. I mean, look at bottled water, how long is it going to be before we have to pay for unbottled water? Pretty fucking stupid logic, right? yeah. No, but if someone asks you to pay X for something, you don't and take it anyways, that's kind of a dick move. That's entitlement. If I barter with them and give them what we both can agree it is worth, its not.
That is the opposite of what he said. You pay for it at that point, so entitlement isn't an issue
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Watched for free, only because I started watching late saturday evening. It wasn't worth 20$, but I think I would pay 10$ next time.
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EPT
