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Thorantham
United States221 Posts
On February 25 2012 03:29 Pr0wler wrote: And that difference is exactly why MLG must pay for it. Simple as that  I support TL in their decision. It's reasonable. You may want to read the OP again, that distinction is not implied by TL. | ||
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FirstGear
Australia185 Posts
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Thorantham
United States221 Posts
On February 25 2012 03:34 Rassy wrote: Mlg should just suck it up and pay tl for the thread/calendar Am suprised mlg refused to pay annything,as an american company i expected them to be pragmatic maybe they wanted to pay but tl wanted more, i dont know. If Mlg is going to fully monetise they should expect that they will have to pay for services p[rovided by others as well. It is a somewhat cheap timing of TL to jump on the occassion now and charge mlg but they have every right to do so and their product definatly has a huge value. Mlg should just pay, them refusing to pay others who help make their tournament a succes, while they are trying to monetise starcraft for themselves makes them look bad. How can you say they "should just pay" when you don't even know what the cost is? MLG isnt' refusing to pay. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On February 25 2012 03:25 Thorantham wrote: Public service? You're out of your mind. Everyone wants to get listed on TL so they can make money from their stream ads. Every event stream gets paid. The only difference is MLG's requires the viewer to pay and not companies that run ads. As in anyone can watch it with an internet connection. -_- | ||
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Thorantham
United States221 Posts
On February 25 2012 03:31 Akta wrote: That people can click the links and watch without paying someone is a pretty big difference as well. Yes, but my point was specifically in how they get monetized. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On February 25 2012 03:36 FirstGear wrote: I feel like TL is a site for the fans. Providing a link might benefit MLG, but it benefits me as a viewer and TL member too. I feel like this decision screws both parties. It doesn't benefit you unless you pay for it. For those who have purchased it or going to a barcraft they should already know the where and when. There is plenty of coverage on it already. | ||
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Danzo
2820 Posts
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Rassy
Netherlands2308 Posts
Ya you are right, i cant realy judge it as we dont have anny details. Am just saying that i find it more then reasonable though slightly opportunistic that TL charges MLG and i also think that mlg should be willing to pay a fee, how much this fee should be is another question. I would be suprised if mlg refused to pay annything at all, wich is the impression i got a bit. If they are willing to pay then i guess its just a discussion about how much, well i dont have annything sensible to say about how much would be reasonable, i guess both partys made their decission and now just have to live with that. It would definatly be alot better for both partys though if the event was listed, so maybe tl should ask a bit less and mlg should be willing to pay a little more ? lol | ||
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UrielSC
Canada143 Posts
On February 25 2012 03:43 Danzo wrote: I respect TL for sticking to their rules but I don't necessarily agree. I also have mix feelings about MLG ppv but I still paid for the 20$ and I can't wait to see excellent game play. I agree. I paid the 20$ as well.. but that was only to watch Axslav vs Violet :D | ||
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Akta
447 Posts
On February 25 2012 03:33 Idgaf wrote: 1)I don't think TL officially stated they are against all forms of ppv. I would guess that it would be listed as "sponsored event" or something like that.So let me get this all straight, some vVv guy came in with concerns about some stuff that went down between TL and MLG. Which bacally boils down to,TL posts a poll asking how their comunity feels about the new PPV system as a whole. The vast majority of the sample said they would not pay and they were against PPV. If this information was polled to find where their public standpoint should be or if it would be benefitial to do the referal thing to make money from TL site area pass buyers is all speculation but something to consider. Then after this fact if I'm understanding corectly TL publicly said they do not support the PPV system and it goes against what the sport is (paraphrased not quoted). After taking a public stand point against PPV, they tried to make a deal with MLG to make profit for advertiseing off the system they desided to publicly oppose, in which a "not unsubstatial amount of money" was requested by TL then rejected by MLG. The things I don't understand and would like answered are pretty straight foward. 1. Why did you oppose a system like PPV publicly then try to make a cut off advertisement of that system? 2. How much money was it in question that TL asked for, to have MLG Ads on TL? (I feel because no deal was made there is no harm in revealing this amount and it would shed some light on the situation). 3. For your dealings between TL and MLG to be leaked on a forum is one thing but, then the aspects of your dealings were openly talked about by a member who was part of the behind closed doors stuff. Was there no NDA on your business dealings? (In almost all serious business I've ever had dealings with the responces would have been considered very unprofessional. Im not saying that the other vVv guy was being any better but TL has a standard to live up to and I feel it kind of became a pissing contest to a point.) 4. Also (I hope I don't get banned or warned for this because I'm not meaning to be agressive towards anyone I'm just trying to find out what all really went down) I was looking at a few of the posts at the beginning of this thread and I noticed some of them had been edited by HB after some of these "Rumors" surfaced. Which leads me to think there is more we are not being told :X. What was changed and why did you feel the need to edit it? Thanks TL GOOOOO ESPORTS :D!!! P.S. If you didn't get a chance to see DRG vs Gumiho simifinals of GSL, it has some of the best ZvT games I have ever seen in my life! 2)While that would be interesting it's kind of like asking how much they get from any ads or sponsors. No one in the scene seem to be very open about that stuff. 3)If you meant hotbid's OP I assume the post is meant to be an official TL explanation about the stream event calendar. | ||
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SnoLys
149 Posts
MLG is part of vVv's partners: http://vvv-gaming.com/partners It's the same thing as a team defending their sponsors. | ||
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L3gendary
Canada1470 Posts
It's also funny how when one vVv member posts they all come out of the woodwork replying "this" to every one of their posts, not just on TL but they did this on MLG's site. | ||
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Spectralx
United States198 Posts
"Nothing personal against you but there are two core reasons: 1. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=17883#cmd06 6. THOU SHALL RESPECT FORUM VETERANS All other things being equal, we will give preferential treatment to site members who have been with us longer (as reflected in their post count + length of time with us as a registered member). It's a simple recognition of the quality of these people. Longevity and contribution are prized commodities around here. In a similar vein, "known" pro/semi-pro players will also be treated with deference (yes, quite a few hang out here). Don't complain - these guys have earned it. 2. When Artosis puts up a video it's usually something completely different from what he's done previously. In addition to that, his threads are massively popular (tens of thousands of views and thousands of replies in a very short timespan) and content would easily get lost if he had a single thread. Original Message From Spectralx: i saw tyhat artossis posted a video called im ballenced..... dose he not have a thread? i feel discriminated against dude.,.. just because hes the 41 most watched PERSON not caster but all of u tube. he should not be posting in genral because he gets money from adds . so it a no brainer to abuse the grenral fourms. no with that being said, i have a very abnormal video i wanna advetz. so can i make a new thread? i achived gold league." - Excalibur_Z so this part from the first post is a conditioning.. "This is advertising but it's also fine, it is relevant and useful to a lot of people who view TL. But if a user or organization makes a post about their YouTube or Twitter, the balance is skewed far in favor of advertising for the organization over the utility gained by TeamLiquid users. " Hot_Bid .... so TL is a monopoly and they are trying to keep it that way protecting special interests. it sucks TL kisses whoever's ass kisses theirs. | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On February 25 2012 03:52 Spectralx wrote: Well People Like Artosis are allowed to brake the rules? this is my PM convo "Nothing personal against you but there are two core reasons: 1. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=17883#cmd06 6. THOU SHALL RESPECT FORUM VETERANS All other things being equal, we will give preferential treatment to site members who have been with us longer (as reflected in their post count + length of time with us as a registered member). It's a simple recognition of the quality of these people. Longevity and contribution are prized commodities around here. In a similar vein, "known" pro/semi-pro players will also be treated with deference (yes, quite a few hang out here). Don't complain - these guys have earned it. 2. When Artosis puts up a video it's usually something completely different from what he's done previously. In addition to that, his threads are massively popular (tens of thousands of views and thousands of replies in a very short timespan) and content would easily get lost if he had a single thread. Original Message From Spectralx: i saw tyhat artossis posted a video called im ballenced..... dose he not have a thread? i feel discriminated against dude.,.. just because hes the 41 most watched PERSON not caster but all of u tube. he should not be posting in genral because he gets money from adds . so it a no brainer to abuse the grenral fourms. no with that being said, i have a very abnormal video i wanna advetz. so can i make a new thread? i achived gold league." - Excalibur_Z so this part from the first post is a conditioning.. "This is advertising but it's also fine, it is relevant and useful to a lot of people who view TL. But if a user or organization makes a post about their YouTube or Twitter, the balance is skewed far in favor of advertising for the organization over the utility gained by TeamLiquid users. " Hot_Bid .... so TL is a monopoly and they are trying to keep it that way protecting special interests. it sucks TL kisses whoever's ass kisses theirs. Do you have any idea of what you are talking about? TL is a monopoly by consequence of what they do. Keeping it is also a consequence by putting their community first. Of course TL kisses those who contribute and don't utilize TL's community base for their own interest. I find this all ironic coming from you. | ||
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SugarBear
United States842 Posts
On February 25 2012 03:48 SnoLys wrote: How does vVv doesn't gain anything? MLG is part of vVv's partners: http://vvv-gaming.com/partners It's the same thing as a team defending their sponsors. Not sure how else to say "we only make money if people buy PPV subscriptions using our code" so I'll stick with that. | ||
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darmousseh
United States3437 Posts
1. It breaks away from the goal for teamliquid to be the ESPN of sc2. ESPN covers a lot of events which are PPV like pro boxing matches. ESPN covers it because it is relevant to the content that it's user want to see, not because they are going to profit from it. 2. It is unfair to MLG specifically especially when GOM also has events which cannot be embedded in a teamliquid page. I know GOM has a low quality stream as well, but it's so low that it's practically impossible to watch (for me). 3. It's not helpful to the purpose of the teamliquid calendar. I personally like the calendar because it contains a very fast way to find out about the biggest sc2 events out there. If TL decides to stop putting the best events up there, then I see it becoming a less useful tool for me and many others. That's all for my opinion, please do the right thing for the visitors on this website. | ||
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Spectralx
United States198 Posts
Do you have any idea of what you are talking about? TL is a monopoly by consequence of what they do. Keeping it is also a consequence by putting their community first. Of course TL kisses those who contribute and don't utilize TL's community base for their own interest. I find this all ironic coming from you. hmm well no, artosis, Tasteless, said TL,TL,TL all day since BW. TL is amazing, but they are not Innocent from using their weight because if your not seen here people cant find you. i have more i would love to say, but im a quadriplegic and this is a wait of my time, i just wanted my 2 cents. | ||
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Barbiero
Brazil5259 Posts
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Idra4Lyfe
United States10 Posts
-Idra FAN FOR LIFE | ||
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