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XRaDiiX
Canada1730 Posts
You can doubt my source. But let me make it clearI have no dog in this fight. I don't come on forums for attention. This does not nothing to help vVv Gaming. FTFY Obviously he did have underlying motives that was rather funny you put two and two together. | ||
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AysiktiriX
358 Posts
Is it? Really? Time for me to stop? Are you telling me to stop? And if I chose not to. . . please inform me of the consequences, so I can make the right choice. Such a post after a warning and people call this "questionable"? To me, this post seems like a 100% provocation. | ||
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Hondelul
1999 Posts
I appreciate TL´s stance in this matter, it´s sad that MLG is the first casualty and with this it may look as TL wanted to do something bad to MLG. But they had to make a post regarding this issue and since it´s a MLG weekend their name was in the title. Could be another title if it was another weekend TL made this post. Really hope both MLG goes well and no bad blood is between them and TL as noone gets anything positive from this. But (!) I really hope the staff can find a middle way, to add the event to the calender without stream or so. Many people (me included) really only take their informations regarding events from the calender. Even if I´m not able to watch it (too expensive and bad time for me) I would really appreciate to be always remembered that it´s on. And 3rd point: I want to thank TL for the time I could spend on this site/ on my hobby. I know it´s the wrong place, but since I write here I can say it here as well. GL in the future to both TL and MLG | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On February 25 2012 00:34 Brockbfball1563 wrote: There's a difference between being critical of someone and dumping on them. Jerry also never really liked MLG way back in the day. He did nothing but "dump on them" day and night and people hated him for it. MLG finally reached out to him after he wrote an open letter to them and listened to what he had to say. MLG's in a much better place now after taking a lot of his advice. He's just doing to TL what he did to MLG, calling them out when they do something that either doesn't benefit eSports or is going against expanding eSports. Some people see him being critical of an organization and see him as being an asshole for it. Fair enough. But let's face it, he's been right too many times in the past to just dismiss something he says. I'm guessing he wants TL to be a better organization, and if calling them out when they do something he doesn't agree with is something he thinks is worth going out of his way to do, then it may be in our best interest to at least listen to him. 1) Posting an open letter explaining clearly what you think is wrong and how you think it could be made better, and then discuss the pros and cons of the suggestions. 2) Posting a rumour with a secret source about a number, and then start an argument with two admins about exactly what was and was not said in posts that everyone can read. Yes, there is a difference.... | ||
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Full.tilt
United Kingdom1709 Posts
On February 25 2012 00:38 SugarBear wrote: The fact that LordJerith was banned for asking what the exact figure TL started with pretty much tells me it was $9950 or something effectively equivalent to $10k You must be right. I'm not sure what any of us were thinking after reading first hand posts from MLGAdam and HotBid that directly referenced this specific subject, we should instead listen to a ranting poster who repeatedly stated his hearsay as fact. I accept that there may be details of each organisation and every private conversation that representatives of these organisations have had that we may not be privy to and have not been detailed extensively in this thread but that's how it is. Continually trying to push out a rumour even after one of the main people involved has responded directly is just bad form, even real journalists know that, people should go dig somewhere else if they want to turn it into a crusade or just report on what they already have. | ||
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CDR
Poland84 Posts
On February 25 2012 00:29 Brockbfball1563 wrote: And wow, you just banned one of the most strraightforward, honest people in eSports who has supported players for over 5 years. Even if his source was wrong, and we don't even know if it was, he deserves respect. TL you just crossed a horrible line that makes me question your credibility. Do you really think that TL cares? They have such a strong position in SC2 that they can do whatever they want and no one can do anything about it. You don't agree with us or post something we don't like? We are just gonna ban you and our fans will keep supporting us no matter what we do. And if they start to doubt in us, TLO is gonna tell them it's still ok. TL has no competition in SC2 world and monopoly is never a good thing. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On February 25 2012 00:29 Brockbfball1563 wrote: And wow, you just banned one of the most strraightforward, honest people in eSports who has supported players for over 5 years. Even if his source was wrong, and we don't even know if it was, he deserves respect. TL you just crossed a horrible line that makes me question your credibility. The guy is a hypocrite. Says he wants to drop it yet he keeps pestering. I don't know him, but I wouldn't want to share a drink with him either from the message he sent. Guy deserves no respect. Don't know him. Don't care who he knows or is connected to because by in large he sounds like a little shit disturber. In other words, it wouldn't matter who you know when you come off as a complete tool. | ||
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Muggs
United States148 Posts
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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gds
Iceland1391 Posts
All these beautiful things Hot_Bid is saying in the OP about TL policies on protecting its users doesnt apply to anyone who give some money to TL, it seems. That's what bother me, you drape yourself in virtue, integrity and then state that money allow you by-pass these values. There's something wrong here. My opinion is that the TL calendar should be neutral and announce all the major tournaments. Monetizing it isn't a good thing to do, especially for the main community site. TL users should be able to access to all informations about sc2, refuse to publish and inform because the source didnt pay is terrible and in a way is a kind of censure. | ||
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Magnious
United States68 Posts
On February 25 2012 01:05 gds wrote: So it's all about the money... All these beautiful things Hot_Bid is saying in the OP about TL policies on protecting its users doesnt apply to anyone who give some money to TL, it seems. That's what bother me, you drape yourself in virtue, integrity and then state that money allow you by-pass these values. There's something wrong here. My opinion is that the TL calendar should be neutral and announce all the major tournaments. Monetizing it isn't a good thing to do, especially for the main community site. TL users should be able to access to all informations about sc2, refuse to publish and inform because the source didnt pay is terrible and in a way is a kind of censure. I agree, but again...it is their rules. There is only 1 day left for them to change their mind...and that isn't going to happen. If there are more PPV events in the future, welcome to the future of TL (unless the events lay down some cash of course). | ||
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Hundisilm
Estonia99 Posts
On February 25 2012 01:05 gds wrote: So it's all about the money... All these beautiful things Hot_Bid is saying in the OP about TL policies on protecting its users doesnt apply to anyone who give some money to TL, it seems. That's what bother me, you drape yourself in virtue, integrity and then state that money allow you by-pass these values. There's something wrong here. My opinion is that the TL calendar should be neutral and announce all the major tournaments. Monetizing it isn't a good thing to do, especially for the main community site. TL users should be able to access to all informations about sc2, refuse to publish and inform because the source didnt pay is terrible and in a way is a kind of censure. That's not really fair. Hot_bid quite directly wrote that the utility vs advertisement balance was off with PPV's (which means the value TL gets is lower with PPV's and they'd like to be compensated for that). The draping of virtue and integrity is for some bizarre reason done by the forum users in my opinion. From what I've understood thus far, they stated a price and MLG thought it was too expensive and didn't feel like it was a worthy investment (the non-negotiating part seems a bit lazy though). It's really pretty much the same thing as the MLG and the 20$ thing - one should either be angry at both or neither (the latter is the smart choice). They most probably both overpriced their product so MLG won't pay to them and people won't pay for the Winter Arena. | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
TL runs on free content. One of TL's principle interests is free SC 2 programming and a lot of it. People come to TL because it is a browsing service for free SC 2 streams, and TL takes advantage of this by embedding those streams, from which they gain traffic, which is their unit of currency in this business. Any tournament that doesn't offer free streams hurts TL in a fashion, because PPV business models make TL's service less useful: 1. The number of people willing to pay to watch SC 2 <<< the number of people willing to watch SC 2 for free. For the PPV provider this is a balanced trade-off - less people watch, but more profit is gained per person. For a site like TL, however, it is a lopsided trade-off - what they care about is how many people watch, and if PPV services take over then the number of people who'll watch is much smaller. 2. PPV content providers do not like embedded streams. Organizations like MLG want to have control over how their content is accessed - ie as 4-5 split screen streams. They don't want to give TL embedded streams. 3. In a world of PPV, TL's stream listings service is a lot less attractive because if I spent money on an event I wouldn't need to browse for what's on, I'd know when and where to go for it. This is especially true if there's a few huge PPV stream providers as opposed to a myriad of free stream providers - in that case I wouldn't have much need for a listings site to inform me what's on, I'd just go to the content providers themselves since I can afford to with only a few providers. For these reasons, and others, TL has a stake in supporting free SC 2 programming. For them to support PPV programming, the PPV providers would need to provide a better incentive. | ||
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
On February 25 2012 00:29 Brockbfball1563 wrote: And wow, you just banned one of the most strraightforward, honest people in eSports who has supported players for over 5 years. Even if his source was wrong, and we don't even know if it was, he deserves respect. TL you just crossed a horrible line that makes me question your credibility. lol come on, look at this post, he was basically martyring and asking to get banned. He was asking for the consequences and he got them. | ||
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vVvSpike
40 Posts
And wow, you just banned one of the most strraightforward, honest people in eSports who has supported players for over 5 years. Even if his source was wrong, and we don't even know if it was, he deserves respect. TL you just crossed a horrible line that makes me question your credibility. ^This User was warned for this post | ||
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Serejai
6007 Posts
I can't think of any reason why you'd do that other than being brainwashed or something. You guys aren't WeRRa 2.0 by chance, are you?  | ||
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SugarBear
United States842 Posts
On February 25 2012 01:47 Serejai wrote: Is vVv like a cult or something? It's rather astounding to see that your Dear Leader was banned for martyring and being a tool and a dozen of you flock here to blindly defend him by making equally shit posts to his. I can't think of any reason why you'd do that other than being brainwashed or something. You guys aren't WeRRa 2.0 by chance, are you? I could say the same about TL members... this whole thread is a great example. | ||
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Swampsteel
United States94 Posts
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farvacola
United States18835 Posts
On February 25 2012 01:47 Serejai wrote: Is TL like a cult or something? It's rather astounding to see that your beloved site makes questionable decisions and a dozen of you flock here to blindly defend him by making equally shit posts to his. I can't think of any reason why you'd do that other than being brainwashed or something. You guys aren't WeRRa 2.0 by chance, are you? Fixed User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Magnious
United States68 Posts
On February 25 2012 01:54 Swampsteel wrote: Looking at the posts the ban seemed to be for not observing forum etiquette from TL commandments. Don't think it was what he said but maybe how he said it. Also, Team Liquid didn't cross a horrible line, they respect people they ban. (lol that sounds funny and will be taken weirdly) As much as I don't agree with the whole situation with them deciding to not have MLG on their calendar...this is true. Look at how many times Idra has been banned. | ||
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