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On February 24 2012 21:17 avcer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 21:09 BlackDove wrote:On February 24 2012 20:11 avcer wrote:On February 24 2012 08:56 MLG_Adam wrote:Hey everyone, was not going to post in this thread, but just wanted to clarify one piece of information (and wow 35 pages...well done  ). The price that was initially quoted was a lot of money. How much was originally offered will remain between MLG and TL, but I will say it was not an insignificant amount by any means and further negotiation did not happen because we were pretty far apart on what was proposed and what we were willing to spend. All that being said, we respect TL's position on this matter. MLG is gearing up to run an amazing show this weekend. Whether you think we're doing the right thing or not with this PPV effort, I hope those that tune in have a great experience. Have a great weekend! After the whole PR debacle surrounding the event, I am somewhat curious about the motivation to post this. I completely see the need to comment on TL's decision but why in this manner? What spoke against just a couple of formal lines, stating something to the effect of "We're sorry that no agreement could be reached, wish TL the best of luck and hope to continue our cooperation" and instead adopting a passive-aggressive tone? It just so fatally continues the terrible way with which PR issues were treated up to this point that it is truly baffling and I am genuinely interested in the motivation for the particular wording. This may just be my view, but I believe it was worded like that intentionally in order to portray TL as a money grubbing parasite, and not as an organization that thinks what MLG is trying to do being patently offensive towards what is the current standard. Bottom line, whether it's true or not isn't really important. What is important in my opinion, is that the MLG PPV model combusts in a sea of flames and dies as quick as it can. Well, that is obviously the subtext that was implied. But I still wonder what lead to that response - that is, what the intended upside of the wording was - that would make it more than yet another instance of terribly handled PR.
Consider that the OP may not be as "fair and balanced" to all parties as it seems to you and most of Team Liquid. Further consider that TL's open hostility toward MLG's current business model might put a small strain on that professional relationship.
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We witness some Unnecessary drama(tm). I know most of us love it.
I support TL's decision, to me it's an identical situation with MLG's PPV - if you think the price isn't worth the gain, don't buy it. And there are so many helpful threads here... if anyone wants to watch MLG, he will with or without calendar... probably. Get it?
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On February 24 2012 23:12 LordJerith wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 23:08 Full.tilt wrote:On February 24 2012 22:59 LordJerith wrote:
1)I have no reason to lie. I have zero motivation to lie or start a rumor.
2) I am not starting a "rumor." My source is reliable, and I would not make such a statement unless I knew it to come from a very reliable source.
3) MLG responded on twitter with "no comment." Having had Sundance on our podcast show 6 times, having MLG Clap, Adam, on twice, if it were false, I have a good felling they would have told me. Besides, if they have this "great" relationship with TL why not defend their "great partner?"
I stand by what I said 100%. If you chose to believe TL on this, that is your choice. In my 5 years of dealings with anyone in eSports my reputation and credibility is not something I feel I have to defend. I am not "starting a rumor." I am telling you that I have it on a solid, reliable source that TL asked MLG for $10K. Period.
Also, HB said that "MLG felt we should not charge." So, I am to believe that they told MLG they were going to charge but price never came up? This further casts doubt on their statement.
You can doubt my source. But let me make it clear I have no dog in this fight. I don't come on forums for attention. This does not nothing to help vVv Gaming. I put no links to the vVv site to drive traffic. Sorry, I don't know a better way to seem more sincere and transparent without violating the relationship I have with my source. I will not do that.
I firmly believe that TL asked MLG for $10K, and I wish both parties would come out with a joint statement saying that it is false, and then we all know for sure.
HB has said that TL put forward a price but it wasn't 10k and it wasn't negotiated, MLGAdam has said a price was mentioned but it wasn't acceptable to MLG and it wasn't negotiated. They are first hand statements which have far more weight than hearsay from you. That is not what was initially said. I recommend you go back and look through this thread. Finally, to be clear, hearsay is not the same as a trusted, reliable source. If you feel what I say is hearsay, that is your choice. What I stated was not.
That's awfully funny because I have no clue of who you are.
The only thing that matters is the fact they couldn't come to an agreement.
On another note: a lot of you really tend to over analyze things up the wazoo.
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Braavos36399 Posts
On February 24 2012 22:59 LordJerith wrote:
1)I have no reason to lie. I have zero motivation to lie or start a rumor.
2) I am not starting a "rumor." My source is reliable, and I would not make such a statement unless I knew it to come from a very reliable source.
3) MLG responded on twitter with "no comment." Having had Sundance on our podcast show 6 times, having MLG Clap, Adam, on twice, if it were false, I have a good felling they would have told me. Besides, if they have this "great" relationship with TL why not defend their "great partner?"
I stand by what I said 100%. If you chose to believe TL on this, that is your choice. In my 5 years of dealings with anyone in eSports my reputation and credibility is not something I feel I have to defend. I am not "starting a rumor." I am telling you that I have it on a solid, reliable source that TL asked MLG for $10K. Period.
Also, HB said that "MLG felt we should not charge." So, I am to believe that they told MLG they were going to charge but price never came up? This further casts doubt on their statement.
You can doubt my source. But let me make it clear I have no dog in this fight. I don't come on forums for attention. This does not nothing to help vVv Gaming. I put no links to the vVv site to drive traffic. Sorry, I don't know a better way to seem more sincere and transparent without violating the relationship I have with my source. I will not do that.
I firmly believe that TL asked MLG for $10K, and I wish both parties would come out with a joint statement saying that it is false, and then we all know for sure.
You "have no dog in this fight"? Your twitter reeks of pure hate toward TL. Here are some quotes:
"Do we really not have an alternative to @TeamLiquidnet ???? anyone?"
"They must really wanna upgrade that shitty website."
"I have heard so many bad stories about Team Liquid, but if this is confirmed by @mlg this just may take the cake."
"HOLY FUCKING SHIT! Team Liquid wanted $10K according to a TL source! Holy shit!"
You even started a thread that put forth the "PPV idea" while simultaneously knowing that it was something MLG was about to announce and something that you personally would participate in by trying to get referrals.
Note how you said "TL source" which is just blatantly untrue. I can guarantee everyone here that your source was not from TL, and that if your non-TL source said 10k, that source lied to you. Repeat: your source, assuming it even exists, lied to you.
This is the last time we're addressing this, it's pointless for us to waste time refuting stuff that has no basis in reality.
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edit: nvm, just seen HB post.
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On February 24 2012 23:25 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 22:59 LordJerith wrote:
1)I have no reason to lie. I have zero motivation to lie or start a rumor.
2) I am not starting a "rumor." My source is reliable, and I would not make such a statement unless I knew it to come from a very reliable source.
3) MLG responded on twitter with "no comment." Having had Sundance on our podcast show 6 times, having MLG Clap, Adam, on twice, if it were false, I have a good felling they would have told me. Besides, if they have this "great" relationship with TL why not defend their "great partner?"
I stand by what I said 100%. If you chose to believe TL on this, that is your choice. In my 5 years of dealings with anyone in eSports my reputation and credibility is not something I feel I have to defend. I am not "starting a rumor." I am telling you that I have it on a solid, reliable source that TL asked MLG for $10K. Period.
Also, HB said that "MLG felt we should not charge." So, I am to believe that they told MLG they were going to charge but price never came up? This further casts doubt on their statement.
You can doubt my source. But let me make it clear I have no dog in this fight. I don't come on forums for attention. This does not nothing to help vVv Gaming. I put no links to the vVv site to drive traffic. Sorry, I don't know a better way to seem more sincere and transparent without violating the relationship I have with my source. I will not do that.
I firmly believe that TL asked MLG for $10K, and I wish both parties would come out with a joint statement saying that it is false, and then we all know for sure. You "have no dog in this fight"? Your twitter reeks of pure hate toward TL. Here are some quotes: "Do we really not have an alternative to @TeamLiquidnet ???? anyone?" "They must really wanna upgrade that shitty website." "I have heard so many bad stories about Team Liquid, but if this is confirmed by @mlg this just may take the cake." "HOLY FUCKING SHIT! Team Liquid wanted $10K according to a TL source! Holy shit!" You even started a thread that put forth the "PPV idea" while simultaneously knowing that it was something MLG was about to announce and something that you personally would participate in by trying to get referrals. Note how you said "TL source" which is just blatantly untrue. I can guarantee everyone here that your source was not from TL, and that if your non-TL source said 10k, that source lied to you. Repeat: your source, assuming it even exists, lied to you. This is the last time we're addressing this, it's pointless for us to waste time refuting stuff that has no basis in reality.
You really are poor victim aren't you? Sorry, I don't "hate." I rant, critique. And let me make it clear that if my source lied to me, you or MLG are more than welcome to explain what defines "A lot of money."
Again, I stand by source 100%, and no matter what, you certainly have changed your tune from "we never discussed price" to now "It was not $10K"
Nice try.
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Braavos36399 Posts
We never claimed to have never discussed price, I do not know where you're getting that from, but OK.
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On February 24 2012 23:15 SugarBear wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 21:17 avcer wrote:On February 24 2012 21:09 BlackDove wrote:On February 24 2012 20:11 avcer wrote:On February 24 2012 08:56 MLG_Adam wrote:Hey everyone, was not going to post in this thread, but just wanted to clarify one piece of information (and wow 35 pages...well done ). The price that was initially quoted was a lot of money. How much was originally offered will remain between MLG and TL, but I will say it was not an insignificant amount by any means and further negotiation did not happen because we were pretty far apart on what was proposed and what we were willing to spend. All that being said, we respect TL's position on this matter. MLG is gearing up to run an amazing show this weekend. Whether you think we're doing the right thing or not with this PPV effort, I hope those that tune in have a great experience. Have a great weekend! After the whole PR debacle surrounding the event, I am somewhat curious about the motivation to post this. I completely see the need to comment on TL's decision but why in this manner? What spoke against just a couple of formal lines, stating something to the effect of "We're sorry that no agreement could be reached, wish TL the best of luck and hope to continue our cooperation" and instead adopting a passive-aggressive tone? It just so fatally continues the terrible way with which PR issues were treated up to this point that it is truly baffling and I am genuinely interested in the motivation for the particular wording. This may just be my view, but I believe it was worded like that intentionally in order to portray TL as a money grubbing parasite, and not as an organization that thinks what MLG is trying to do being patently offensive towards what is the current standard. Bottom line, whether it's true or not isn't really important. What is important in my opinion, is that the MLG PPV model combusts in a sea of flames and dies as quick as it can. Well, that is obviously the subtext that was implied. But I still wonder what lead to that response - that is, what the intended upside of the wording was - that would make it more than yet another instance of terribly handled PR. Consider that the OP may not be as "fair and balanced" to all parties as it seems to you and most of Team Liquid. Further consider that TL's open hostility toward MLG's current business model might put a small strain on that professional relationship.
Indeed!
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On February 24 2012 23:29 LordJerith wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 23:25 Hot_Bid wrote:On February 24 2012 22:59 LordJerith wrote:
1)I have no reason to lie. I have zero motivation to lie or start a rumor.
2) I am not starting a "rumor." My source is reliable, and I would not make such a statement unless I knew it to come from a very reliable source.
3) MLG responded on twitter with "no comment." Having had Sundance on our podcast show 6 times, having MLG Clap, Adam, on twice, if it were false, I have a good felling they would have told me. Besides, if they have this "great" relationship with TL why not defend their "great partner?"
I stand by what I said 100%. If you chose to believe TL on this, that is your choice. In my 5 years of dealings with anyone in eSports my reputation and credibility is not something I feel I have to defend. I am not "starting a rumor." I am telling you that I have it on a solid, reliable source that TL asked MLG for $10K. Period.
Also, HB said that "MLG felt we should not charge." So, I am to believe that they told MLG they were going to charge but price never came up? This further casts doubt on their statement.
You can doubt my source. But let me make it clear I have no dog in this fight. I don't come on forums for attention. This does not nothing to help vVv Gaming. I put no links to the vVv site to drive traffic. Sorry, I don't know a better way to seem more sincere and transparent without violating the relationship I have with my source. I will not do that.
I firmly believe that TL asked MLG for $10K, and I wish both parties would come out with a joint statement saying that it is false, and then we all know for sure. You "have no dog in this fight"? Your twitter reeks of pure hate toward TL. Here are some quotes: "Do we really not have an alternative to @TeamLiquidnet ???? anyone?" "They must really wanna upgrade that shitty website." "I have heard so many bad stories about Team Liquid, but if this is confirmed by @mlg this just may take the cake." "HOLY FUCKING SHIT! Team Liquid wanted $10K according to a TL source! Holy shit!" You even started a thread that put forth the "PPV idea" while simultaneously knowing that it was something MLG was about to announce and something that you personally would participate in by trying to get referrals. Note how you said "TL source" which is just blatantly untrue. I can guarantee everyone here that your source was not from TL, and that if your non-TL source said 10k, that source lied to you. Repeat: your source, assuming it even exists, lied to you. This is the last time we're addressing this, it's pointless for us to waste time refuting stuff that has no basis in reality. You really are poor victim aren't you? Sorry, I don't "hate." I rant, critique.
I didn't think I'd comment on the matter, but, with all due respect, I'd like to point out many people have some really skewed perception of the definition of hatred and ranting, and you are one of those people sir. Also, while you can play on the minds of uninformed masses, asking for ten thousand dollars for a Starcraft II tournament's advertisement, at this point, is beyond retarded and it's hard for me to believe such group as Team Liquid could go for it just like that.
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On February 24 2012 23:29 LordJerith wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 23:25 Hot_Bid wrote:On February 24 2012 22:59 LordJerith wrote:
1)I have no reason to lie. I have zero motivation to lie or start a rumor.
2) I am not starting a "rumor." My source is reliable, and I would not make such a statement unless I knew it to come from a very reliable source.
3) MLG responded on twitter with "no comment." Having had Sundance on our podcast show 6 times, having MLG Clap, Adam, on twice, if it were false, I have a good felling they would have told me. Besides, if they have this "great" relationship with TL why not defend their "great partner?"
I stand by what I said 100%. If you chose to believe TL on this, that is your choice. In my 5 years of dealings with anyone in eSports my reputation and credibility is not something I feel I have to defend. I am not "starting a rumor." I am telling you that I have it on a solid, reliable source that TL asked MLG for $10K. Period.
Also, HB said that "MLG felt we should not charge." So, I am to believe that they told MLG they were going to charge but price never came up? This further casts doubt on their statement.
You can doubt my source. But let me make it clear I have no dog in this fight. I don't come on forums for attention. This does not nothing to help vVv Gaming. I put no links to the vVv site to drive traffic. Sorry, I don't know a better way to seem more sincere and transparent without violating the relationship I have with my source. I will not do that.
I firmly believe that TL asked MLG for $10K, and I wish both parties would come out with a joint statement saying that it is false, and then we all know for sure. You "have no dog in this fight"? Your twitter reeks of pure hate toward TL. Here are some quotes: "Do we really not have an alternative to @TeamLiquidnet ???? anyone?" "They must really wanna upgrade that shitty website." "I have heard so many bad stories about Team Liquid, but if this is confirmed by @mlg this just may take the cake." "HOLY FUCKING SHIT! Team Liquid wanted $10K according to a TL source! Holy shit!" You even started a thread that put forth the "PPV idea" while simultaneously knowing that it was something MLG was about to announce and something that you personally would participate in by trying to get referrals. Note how you said "TL source" which is just blatantly untrue. I can guarantee everyone here that your source was not from TL, and that if your non-TL source said 10k, that source lied to you. Repeat: your source, assuming it even exists, lied to you. This is the last time we're addressing this, it's pointless for us to waste time refuting stuff that has no basis in reality. You really are poor victim aren't you? Sorry, I don't "hate." I rant, critique. And let me make it clear that if my source lied to me, you or MLG are more than welcome to explain what defines "A lot of money." Again, I stand by source 100%, and no matter what, you certainly have changed your tune from "we never discussed price" to now "It was not $10K" Nice try.
TL said that they said how much they wanted and MLG rejected it, so there was no discussion of a price, since it was only said one value, there was no discussion of a value.
And the rumor that you spread on the value that it was asked, not that money was asked. TL asking money was said by TL even, so that wasn't the rumor. The rumor was TL asking for 10000 USD. So far, MLG said that the rumored number was too high and TL said that they didn't asked for 10000USD. However you are still standing by your source.
I sugest you start looking for better sources, since not only your source lied to you about the price, but also about belonging to TL (HB already refuted that).
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They don't have to. They don't owe you or anyone else anything.
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On February 24 2012 23:37 Hot_Bid wrote:
We never claimed to have never discussed price, I do not know where you're getting that from, but OK.
"Neither of these conversations (the referral program or the calendar spot) reached the point where we were negotiating prices at all. We declined to be a part of the referral program for the reasons we stated, and they did not feel we should charge anything for the calendar entry."
That seemed to suggest that price was not discussed. And you certainly did nothing to correct that misperception held by many of your users who said "TL denied discussing price."
Again, We can all agree that you asked for "a lot of money" and MLG refused to pay for it. if that is where we have to leave it, so be it. Unless both you and MLG tell us the exact price you initially asked for, what can we do?
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Braavos36399 Posts
On February 24 2012 23:43 LordJerith wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 23:37 Hot_Bid wrote:
We never claimed to have never discussed price, I do not know where you're getting that from, but OK. "Neither of these conversations (the referral program or the calendar spot) reached the point where we were negotiating prices at all. We declined to be a part of the referral program for the reasons we stated, and they did not feel we should charge anything for the calendar entry." That seemed to suggest that price was not discussed. And you certainly did nothing to correct that misperception held by many of your users who said "TL denied discussing price." Again, We can all agree that you asked for "a lot of money" and MLG refused to pay for it. if that is where we have to leave it, so be it. Unless both you and MLG tell us the exact price you initially asked for, what can we do?
On February 24 2012 07:28 Hot_Bid wrote:
TL and MLG had a difference of opinion about whether we should charge for PPV streams on calendar. Did we give them a price? Yes, but it never progressed to negotiating the pricing details. They said it was too high, we asked what was an affordable amount for them to pay, and they responded that we shouldn't be treating free and PPV streams differently.
I don't think we owe anyone a detailed explanation of the numbers or our finances, but this 10k rumor is just completely inaccurate and untrue, both in the amounts and that a "TL source" leaked. I would just urge people not to listen to rumors from unverified sources.
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On February 24 2012 23:15 SugarBear wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 21:17 avcer wrote:On February 24 2012 21:09 BlackDove wrote:On February 24 2012 20:11 avcer wrote:On February 24 2012 08:56 MLG_Adam wrote:Hey everyone, was not going to post in this thread, but just wanted to clarify one piece of information (and wow 35 pages...well done ). The price that was initially quoted was a lot of money. How much was originally offered will remain between MLG and TL, but I will say it was not an insignificant amount by any means and further negotiation did not happen because we were pretty far apart on what was proposed and what we were willing to spend. All that being said, we respect TL's position on this matter. MLG is gearing up to run an amazing show this weekend. Whether you think we're doing the right thing or not with this PPV effort, I hope those that tune in have a great experience. Have a great weekend! After the whole PR debacle surrounding the event, I am somewhat curious about the motivation to post this. I completely see the need to comment on TL's decision but why in this manner? What spoke against just a couple of formal lines, stating something to the effect of "We're sorry that no agreement could be reached, wish TL the best of luck and hope to continue our cooperation" and instead adopting a passive-aggressive tone? It just so fatally continues the terrible way with which PR issues were treated up to this point that it is truly baffling and I am genuinely interested in the motivation for the particular wording. This may just be my view, but I believe it was worded like that intentionally in order to portray TL as a money grubbing parasite, and not as an organization that thinks what MLG is trying to do being patently offensive towards what is the current standard. Bottom line, whether it's true or not isn't really important. What is important in my opinion, is that the MLG PPV model combusts in a sea of flames and dies as quick as it can. Well, that is obviously the subtext that was implied. But I still wonder what lead to that response - that is, what the intended upside of the wording was - that would make it more than yet another instance of terribly handled PR. Consider that the OP may not be as "fair and balanced" to all parties as it seems to you and most of Team Liquid. Further consider that TL's open hostility toward MLG's current business model might put a small strain on that professional relationship.
All of that might be true, even though I doubt that you would have a lot of users agreeing on calling the way in which TL treats MLG as "open hostility". But that is really beside the point. What I wonder about is why Adam chose to comment on the issue the way he did and what he hoped might be gained by it. Mind you, that does not mean that business relations might not be strained but why not keep it behind the scenes? Why have such an accusatory subtext and not take five minutes longer to come up with a statement that might not do further damage? To me, this just reads as yet another instance of MLG handling an issue in a rather suboptimal fashion that might have been handled better quite easily.
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On February 24 2012 23:43 LordJerith wrote:
Again, We can all agree that you asked for "a lot of money" and MLG refused to pay for it. if that is where we have to leave it, so be it. Unless both you and MLG tell us the exact price you initially asked for, what can we do?
You seem to forget that "a lot of money" is a relative term.
For instance, to part of the community what MLG is asking for MLG Arena pass is a lot of money, to another part of the community is a fair or low price.
What TL though it was fair, seemed to be a lot of money for MLG. Maybe TL though the same thing that MLG did for getting to the $20 pass, it's better to start from a high point and then going down.
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I am not saying it was not clarified. Come on now. .. lol. . . you went to law school, let's not play games.
You asked MLG for a lot of money. They said no. We can debate the $10K, or you and MLG can tell us what it really was. Simple. At least, we all agree that you initially asked MLG for what they perceived to be "a lot of money."
The more important question here is why not support the MLG PPV and then, if the model works, ask for $$$, as I think you would then have more support.
In the end, I do think we should move forward. Will you be in Columbus? If so, we can maybe share a drink, and I can assure that you that I don't hate anyone. Just ask Sundance the heat I used to give him and Adam about not having chairs at his events. :-)
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On February 24 2012 23:48 avcer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 23:15 SugarBear wrote:On February 24 2012 21:17 avcer wrote:On February 24 2012 21:09 BlackDove wrote:On February 24 2012 20:11 avcer wrote:On February 24 2012 08:56 MLG_Adam wrote:Hey everyone, was not going to post in this thread, but just wanted to clarify one piece of information (and wow 35 pages...well done ). The price that was initially quoted was a lot of money. How much was originally offered will remain between MLG and TL, but I will say it was not an insignificant amount by any means and further negotiation did not happen because we were pretty far apart on what was proposed and what we were willing to spend. All that being said, we respect TL's position on this matter. MLG is gearing up to run an amazing show this weekend. Whether you think we're doing the right thing or not with this PPV effort, I hope those that tune in have a great experience. Have a great weekend! After the whole PR debacle surrounding the event, I am somewhat curious about the motivation to post this. I completely see the need to comment on TL's decision but why in this manner? What spoke against just a couple of formal lines, stating something to the effect of "We're sorry that no agreement could be reached, wish TL the best of luck and hope to continue our cooperation" and instead adopting a passive-aggressive tone? It just so fatally continues the terrible way with which PR issues were treated up to this point that it is truly baffling and I am genuinely interested in the motivation for the particular wording. Bottom line, whether it's true or not isn't really important. What is important in my opinion, is that the MLG PPV model combusts in a sea of flames and dies as quick as it can. Well, that is obviously the subtext that was implied. But I still wonder what lead to that response - that is, what the intended upside of the wording was - that would make it more than yet another instance of terribly handled PR. Consider that the OP may not be as "fair and balanced" to all parties as it seems to you and most of Team Liquid. Further consider that TL's open hostility toward MLG's current business model might put a small strain on that professional relationship. All of that might be true, even though I doubt that you would have a lot of users agreeing on calling the way in which TL treats MLG as "open hostility". But that is really beside the point. What I wonder about is why Adam chose to comment on the issue the way he did and what he hoped might be gained by it. Mind you, that does not mean that business relations might not be strained but why not keep it behind the scenes? Why have such an accusatory subtext and not take five minutes longer to come up with a statement that might not do further damage? To me, this just reads as yet another instance of MLG handling an issue in a rather suboptimal fashion that might have been handled better quite easily.
I think the combination of HB's OP and the leak kinda forced his hand. Just my impression.
This may just be my view, but I believe it was worded like that intentionally in order to portray TL as a money grubbing parasite, and not as an organization that thinks what MLG is trying to do being patently offensive towards what is the current standard.
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I am Lord Jerith, sworn liege of King Ansandi. For too long you have stood in our way, the esports throne will be ours Team Liquid
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On February 24 2012 23:43 LordJerith wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 23:37 Hot_Bid wrote:
We never claimed to have never discussed price, I do not know where you're getting that from, but OK. "Neither of these conversations (the referral program or the calendar spot) reached the point where we were negotiating prices at all. We declined to be a part of the referral program for the reasons we stated, and they did not feel we should charge anything for the calendar entry." That seemed to suggest that price was not discussed. And you certainly did nothing to correct that misperception held by many of your users who said "TL denied discussing price." Again, We can all agree that you asked for "a lot of money" and MLG refused to pay for it. if that is where we have to leave it, so be it. Unless both you and MLG tell us the exact price you initially asked for, what can we do?
I don't get it, so what if they did? Is there this new revolutionary concept of charity advertisment, or what is the issue here?
I think the OP conveyed the message that doing a calendar-entry was not feasible for them from neither a moral pov nor from an economical one (discussion about sponsored threads, price, etc), so that's why things are how they are.
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On February 24 2012 23:53 LordJerith wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 23:48 avcer wrote:On February 24 2012 23:15 SugarBear wrote:On February 24 2012 21:17 avcer wrote:On February 24 2012 21:09 BlackDove wrote:On February 24 2012 20:11 avcer wrote:On February 24 2012 08:56 MLG_Adam wrote:Hey everyone, was not going to post in this thread, but just wanted to clarify one piece of information (and wow 35 pages...well done ). The price that was initially quoted was a lot of money. How much was originally offered will remain between MLG and TL, but I will say it was not an insignificant amount by any means and further negotiation did not happen because we were pretty far apart on what was proposed and what we were willing to spend. All that being said, we respect TL's position on this matter. MLG is gearing up to run an amazing show this weekend. Whether you think we're doing the right thing or not with this PPV effort, I hope those that tune in have a great experience. Have a great weekend! After the whole PR debacle surrounding the event, I am somewhat curious about the motivation to post this. I completely see the need to comment on TL's decision but why in this manner? What spoke against just a couple of formal lines, stating something to the effect of "We're sorry that no agreement could be reached, wish TL the best of luck and hope to continue our cooperation" and instead adopting a passive-aggressive tone? It just so fatally continues the terrible way with which PR issues were treated up to this point that it is truly baffling and I am genuinely interested in the motivation for the particular wording. Bottom line, whether it's true or not isn't really important. What is important in my opinion, is that the MLG PPV model combusts in a sea of flames and dies as quick as it can. Well, that is obviously the subtext that was implied. But I still wonder what lead to that response - that is, what the intended upside of the wording was - that would make it more than yet another instance of terribly handled PR. Consider that the OP may not be as "fair and balanced" to all parties as it seems to you and most of Team Liquid. Further consider that TL's open hostility toward MLG's current business model might put a small strain on that professional relationship. All of that might be true, even though I doubt that you would have a lot of users agreeing on calling the way in which TL treats MLG as "open hostility". But that is really beside the point. What I wonder about is why Adam chose to comment on the issue the way he did and what he hoped might be gained by it. Mind you, that does not mean that business relations might not be strained but why not keep it behind the scenes? Why have such an accusatory subtext and not take five minutes longer to come up with a statement that might not do further damage? To me, this just reads as yet another instance of MLG handling an issue in a rather suboptimal fashion that might have been handled better quite easily. I think the combination of HB's OP and the leak kinda forced his hand. Just my impression. This may just be my view, but I believe it was worded like that intentionally in order to portray TL as a money grubbing parasite, and not as an organization that thinks what MLG is trying to do being patently offensive towards what is the current standard.
Right. Which is an incredibly strange stance to take, especially after the fiasco that preceded the whole thing.
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EPT
