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On February 24 2012 02:54 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 02:49 figq wrote:On February 24 2012 02:36 Xalorian wrote:On February 24 2012 02:20 figq wrote:
GOM AoL was listed?
It had no free stream (or VODs!) - MLG Arena at least has all VODs free in a week?
+ Each day of MLG Arena has 1 free hour, which would be nice to check from TL's Calendar, right?
...
What this accomplishes is making me go to MLG's website to check this event's schedule which - I get it, alright, I get it! - "the site sucks !!!", and that's so sad. Read the OP next time before commenting. AoL was NOT listed when it was PPV, it was listed after it... when it went free LQ. So yeah, your entire point is irrelevant and false. I edited my post, before seeing your comment, covering it. The way I remember it AoL was listed and had no free stream option. You remember it right, there's revisionist history at work in this thread. As Milkis and others have stated, the AOL tournament was listed on the right even before it was free. But don't worry, TL will cover their asses and everyone will insist that double standards are not at work......./rolls eyes Thank you.
I also don't get why MLG and now even TL try to claim that:
"MLG is doing something nobody has attempted before"
- that's not true! MLG are not that original, sorry! They actually just follow in the steps of GOM, this has been done before. Their main tournaments are still free, just like GOM's. This whole "pioneering" PPV thing was a weird claim from the start.
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On February 24 2012 02:54 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 02:49 figq wrote:On February 24 2012 02:36 Xalorian wrote:On February 24 2012 02:20 figq wrote:
GOM AoL was listed?
It had no free stream (or VODs!) - MLG Arena at least has all VODs free in a week?
+ Each day of MLG Arena has 1 free hour, which would be nice to check from TL's Calendar, right?
...
What this accomplishes is making me go to MLG's website to check this event's schedule which - I get it, alright, I get it! - "the site sucks !!!", and that's so sad. Read the OP next time before commenting. AoL was NOT listed when it was PPV, it was listed after it... when it went free LQ. So yeah, your entire point is irrelevant and false. I edited my post, before seeing your comment, covering it. The way I remember it AoL was listed and had no free stream option. You remember it right, there's revisionist history at work in this thread. As Milkis and others have stated, the AOL tournament was listed on the right even before it was free. But don't worry, TL will cover their asses and everyone will insist that double standards are not at work......./rolls eyes
Could be true and it's still irrelevant. You can't talk about double standard when it is now the same thing for every events. It's not double standard, it's a change, a new stance.
AoL was PPV, then became free. Even if it was listed during the time that AoL was PPV, the fact is that TL had not yet taken a real stance on PPV.
Now, TL took their stance. Future PPV will not be listed, except if the events is paying TL for advertisement, even future AoL or anything. And that seems really fair to me.
So, completly irrelevant.
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So what TL is saying is they are no longer the resource to go to see what tournaments are going on.
TL is the site to go to if you want to see the free content, nothing more.
TL wake up, your arne't living in a no fee world. Things have to be paid for and businesses have to make a profit. Sites like TL really need to learn to grow up from a niche site and grow into "the site." Decisions and policies like these really show the shortsightedness and lack of business experience that it take to go to the next level. Hopefully real visionaries (maybe like MLG???) will come along and actually make the SC2 scene stable and ::gasp:: PROFITABLE so it can still be around 10 years from now.
Money out with no money in == fail in time.
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The thought process makes perfect sense. I agree with MLG doing this as a PPV event, though I worry Sir Scoots may be right in thinking its "too soon."
However, the issue of the free "stream" MLG has announced [no gameplay] is not clearly addressed. Is TL saying they will evaluate the quality of that stream during this event and consider putting it on their calendar in the future? Or did MLG decline to make it available as a TL embedded stream?
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So, I just opened up LzGamer's stream (embedded on TL) and the ad that I got was for MLG winter arena. LOL
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On February 24 2012 03:02 Xalorian wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 02:54 farvacola wrote:On February 24 2012 02:49 figq wrote:On February 24 2012 02:36 Xalorian wrote:On February 24 2012 02:20 figq wrote:
GOM AoL was listed?
It had no free stream (or VODs!) - MLG Arena at least has all VODs free in a week?
+ Each day of MLG Arena has 1 free hour, which would be nice to check from TL's Calendar, right?
...
What this accomplishes is making me go to MLG's website to check this event's schedule which - I get it, alright, I get it! - "the site sucks !!!", and that's so sad. Read the OP next time before commenting. AoL was NOT listed when it was PPV, it was listed after it... when it went free LQ. So yeah, your entire point is irrelevant and false. I edited my post, before seeing your comment, covering it. The way I remember it AoL was listed and had no free stream option. You remember it right, there's revisionist history at work in this thread. As Milkis and others have stated, the AOL tournament was listed on the right even before it was free. But don't worry, TL will cover their asses and everyone will insist that double standards are not at work......./rolls eyes Could be true and it's still irrelevant. AoL was PPV, then became free. Even if it was listed during the time that AoL was PPV, the fact is that TL had not yet taken a real stance on PPV. Now, TL took their stance. Future PPV will not be listed, except if the events is paying TL for advertisement, even future AoL or anything. And that seems really fair to me. So, completly irrelevant.
Believe it or not, repeatedly stating that you believe something to be irrelevant does not make it more so. In fact, even those who support TL's decision ought to see the inherent relevance in TL choosing MLG's Winter Arena to make their stand on PPV Sc2 content. The fact that TL has let previous organizations (GOM) list paid content and are now choosing a fragile, new, and possibly groundbreaking tournament with which to take a hardline stance makes it pretty clear that TL and MLG are not peas in a pod. And this worries me immensely.
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On February 24 2012 03:04 Marconos wrote:
So what TL is saying is they are no longer the resource to go to see what tournaments are going on.
TL is the site to go to if you want to see the free content, nothing more.
TL wake up, your arne't living in a no fee world. Things have to be paid for and businesses have to make a profit. Sites like TL really need to learn to grow up from a niche site and grow into "the site." Decisions and policies like these really show the shortsightedness and lack of business experience that it take to go to the next level. Hopefully real visionaries (maybe like MLG???) will come along and actually make the SC2 scene stable and ::gasp:: PROFITABLE so it can still be around 10 years from now.
Money out with no money in == fail in time.
No, that is not what they are saying at all. They are saying that TL is the site to go to if you wish you find starcraft streams which they believe fulfill their vision of growing esports. If you don't agree with it feel free to produce your own website which I'm sure no one will visit. Goodluck!
Everyone wants esports to be profitable, but people also want to pay a reasonable price for the viewing experience. Not to mention it's pretty damn hard to get your friends into watching Sc2 when they have to pay to do it. Whatever though, this horse has been beaten far too much and you clearly don't want to entertain any opinions other then your own.
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I like this move, well played TL.
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I thought the point of the calender was to put major Starcraft 2 events that were coming up. I feel it is more a of a disservice to the community than anything just because the majority of us come to TL to see which major events are going on, and the calender is a huge part of it. I would like to know when certain tournaments are approaching, even if it is only PPV just because it is relevant to the Starcraft scene as a whole. Either way it is TL's site and they can run it how they see fit.
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Does this also mean there won't be a write up by the TL writers for this MLG?
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On February 24 2012 03:11 SpinmovE wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 03:04 Marconos wrote:
So what TL is saying is they are no longer the resource to go to see what tournaments are going on.
TL is the site to go to if you want to see the free content, nothing more.
TL wake up, your arne't living in a no fee world. Things have to be paid for and businesses have to make a profit. Sites like TL really need to learn to grow up from a niche site and grow into "the site." Decisions and policies like these really show the shortsightedness and lack of business experience that it take to go to the next level. Hopefully real visionaries (maybe like MLG???) will come along and actually make the SC2 scene stable and ::gasp:: PROFITABLE so it can still be around 10 years from now.
Money out with no money in == fail in time. No, that is not what they are saying at all. They are saying that TL is the site to go to if you wish you find starcraft streams which they believe fulfill their vision of growing esports. If you don't agree with it feel free to produce your own website which I'm sure no one will visit. Goodluck! Everyone wants esports to be profitable, but people also want to pay a reasonable price for the viewing experience. Not to mention it's pretty damn hard to get your friends into watching Sc2 when they have to pay to do it. Whatever though, this horse has been beaten far too much and you clearly don't want to entertain any opinions other then your own.
Actually what they are saying that they likely would have been fine adding the event into the calendar if MLG had paid for promotion, which is a very reasonable stance to take
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On February 24 2012 03:10 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 03:02 Xalorian wrote:On February 24 2012 02:54 farvacola wrote:On February 24 2012 02:49 figq wrote:On February 24 2012 02:36 Xalorian wrote:On February 24 2012 02:20 figq wrote:
GOM AoL was listed?
It had no free stream (or VODs!) - MLG Arena at least has all VODs free in a week?
+ Each day of MLG Arena has 1 free hour, which would be nice to check from TL's Calendar, right?
...
What this accomplishes is making me go to MLG's website to check this event's schedule which - I get it, alright, I get it! - "the site sucks !!!", and that's so sad. Read the OP next time before commenting. AoL was NOT listed when it was PPV, it was listed after it... when it went free LQ. So yeah, your entire point is irrelevant and false. I edited my post, before seeing your comment, covering it. The way I remember it AoL was listed and had no free stream option. You remember it right, there's revisionist history at work in this thread. As Milkis and others have stated, the AOL tournament was listed on the right even before it was free. But don't worry, TL will cover their asses and everyone will insist that double standards are not at work......./rolls eyes Could be true and it's still irrelevant. AoL was PPV, then became free. Even if it was listed during the time that AoL was PPV, the fact is that TL had not yet taken a real stance on PPV. Now, TL took their stance. Future PPV will not be listed, except if the events is paying TL for advertisement, even future AoL or anything. And that seems really fair to me. So, completly irrelevant. Believe it or not, repeatedly stating that you believe something to be irrelevant does not make it more so. In fact, even those who support TL's decision ought to see the inherent relevance in TL choosing MLG's Winter Arena to make their stand on PPV Sc2 content. The fact that TL has let previous organizations (GOM) list paid content and are now choosing a fragile, new, and possibly groundbreaking tournament with which to take a hardline stance makes it pretty clear that TL and MLG are not peas in a pod. And this worries me immensely.
Fair point indeed. But the distinction is that TL is not against paid content (GOM and MLG have membership options). It's just when there is no free service.
Of course, the whole situation with AoL could show that TL has changed its stance. But what's so wrong about a change of stance? TL has maintained one important consistency: Doing what they think is right in order to foster the growth of the SC scene (and esports in general). That has been true and I'm sure will be true. If the TL admins came to a different conclusion this time around, then why can't they do that? For example, just last year, I would have never considered applying for Computer Science classes. But now, I'm biting my words as I'm doing fairly well in this course. Yes, my stance has changed. But there's nothing inherently wrong with that.
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big father TL spoke
totaly respect TL for this
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Makes sense, thanks for the post Hotbid.
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On February 24 2012 03:15 TheDougler wrote:
Does this also mean there won't be a write up by the TL writers for this MLG?
This has doesn't affect that. However, no press is allowed at the event so an article should depend on how willing the TL writers are to pay the required $20.
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MLG who? Never heard of them... ;-)
Thank you TL for making such a strong statement regarding advertising PPV.
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I really don't like this move by TL. I use the calendar to see what streams and tournaments are on, regardless of payment requirements. If TL simply starts excluding events from the calendar then they no longer provide the comprehensive list that I come here for and I will go elsewhere to a site that does provide such information instead. This is hurtful to the community and to the site.
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everyone who is against this think of this. User opens teamliquid.net and then clicks on MLG streeam...oh well he won't be able to see anything from it because it is PPV only.
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Hmm, this arises an idea for possible future TL UI improvement - personalizing the TL calendar. Editing out events you don't need there, and adding in events you wish there, that aren't listed. Could be cool, just a thought.
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its murky in the these grey areas ._.
but if every time something like this happen and you make a thread about it, you would be advertising for them by posting a thread anyway?
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EPT
