|
On February 24 2012 03:04 Marconos wrote:
So what TL is saying is they are no longer the resource to go to see what tournaments are going on.
TL is the site to go to if you want to see the free content, nothing more.
TL wake up, your arne't living in a no fee world. Things have to be paid for and businesses have to make a profit. Sites like TL really need to learn to grow up from a niche site and grow into "the site." Decisions and policies like these really show the shortsightedness and lack of business experience that it take to go to the next level. Hopefully real visionaries (maybe like MLG???) will come along and actually make the SC2 scene stable and ::gasp:: PROFITABLE so it can still be around 10 years from now.
Money out with no money in == fail in time.
MLG didn't wanted to give money for the calendar so what's the problem with tl not putting them on the calendar?
You want news? Go to the News section or the Tournaments forum. There you will have everything. The calendar is there to be actually useful for watching starcraft not just point to tournaments (for free mind you)
|
I get it. I really get it. Respect to TL. I totally get it.
|
Once again I am amazed at how well my opinion matches the perspective of the TL-admins.
|
On February 24 2012 03:04 Marconos wrote:
So what TL is saying is they are no longer the resource to go to see what tournaments are going on.
TL is the site to go to if you want to see the free content, nothing more.
TL wake up, your arne't living in a no fee world. Things have to be paid for and businesses have to make a profit. Sites like TL really need to learn to grow up from a niche site and grow into "the site." Decisions and policies like these really show the shortsightedness and lack of business experience that it take to go to the next level. Hopefully real visionaries (maybe like MLG???) will come along and actually make the SC2 scene stable and ::gasp:: PROFITABLE so it can still be around 10 years from now.
Money out with no money in == fail in time.
looooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
Yea, we need "real visionaries" like PPV MLG or starcraft and TL cannot last ten years.
loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
I feel like an ass, but you really ought to check how long BW and TL have been around without PPV tournaments or "real visionaries,"
|
On February 24 2012 03:04 Marconos wrote:
So what TL is saying is they are no longer the resource to go to see what tournaments are going on.
TL is the site to go to if you want to see the free content, nothing more.
TL wake up, your arne't living in a no fee world. Things have to be paid for and businesses have to make a profit. Sites like TL really need to learn to grow up from a niche site and grow into "the site." Decisions and policies like these really show the shortsightedness and lack of business experience that it take to go to the next level. Hopefully real visionaries (maybe like MLG???) will come along and actually make the SC2 scene stable and ::gasp:: PROFITABLE so it can still be around 10 years from now.
Money out with no money in == fail in time.
Say what? TL is "the site" for SC/SC2 and has been that way for a long time.
|
MLG goes pay-to-view SC2, TL goes pay-to-show MLG in calendar.
MLG wants it for free, oh the irony :D
|
i respect TLs decision, but what about hurting E-Sports thing i keep hearing about. If you want to get E-Sports out to the population, especially big name events, shouldnt it be TLs responsibility to put up a link on the calander even if there is no free stream link? Just having that, "the tournament is happening right now" thing in the calander, will get more people to watch (and subsequently pay for) and support/grow sustainable E-Sports. And isnt it this community that plays a large part in that support/sustainability?
I get the whole free advertising no no thing, and i hope that MLG will either change thier model to give a free stream, or notice that without the benifit of TL and its comunity, that they should pay for a link. But over all do we all think that the E-Sports scene is at a stable enough point where cooperation (even if its free) between events and communities is not needed, and we can have these "dissagreements" and not support each event?
|
Personally I'd be more disappointed in MLG and TL.net if I clicked on a stream in the calendar section and was bounced out because I had to pay to watch. (Just like I was when the ppv only AOL by GOM was on, except of course just disappointed with GOM and TL.net)
However if the link to the stream was in the LR thread, which like others have said will be bumped up and constantly present on the sidebar anyway as it gets updated with results, has a big warning that it is pay per view only it won't be a nasty surprise for people who didn't already know.
|
I just want to note something to everyone who is saying that they expected the TL calendar to have all major SC2 events. The calendar as it is was never meant to showcase all events, only events that fulfilled TLs rules. The TL calendar is not, and has never been a schedule for all things SC2.
The thing is, with everyone tournament and other stream free, people have been using it as the definite schedule for all things SC2, and TL to some degree has encouraged that by adding streams that are 'exceptions' due to their prominence through various justifications (e.g. Gom, which forces you to use their player but ok). This is fine, as it is at their discretion. In fact, I applaud them for upholding their policy.
What I do believe is that this policy is flawed. A calender, for a community, should be a listing of all major events, and information related to those events that are of relevance to the community, regardless if they are PPV or not.
Live streaming lists, on the other hand, should not necessarily show live streams that are PPV, unless they are clearly marked as such, and I have no problems with TL charging for listing the live stream as such. The problem is with conflating the two. They are not one and the same, although perhaps because of the current system, TL treats them as such.
I personally think the TL calendar should be a reference for all major events, and relevant information, including if the event is PPV or not. Enthusiasts in just about any community track things they are interested in, regardless of if they want to pay or not. This, however, has never been TL's policy. TL has always very clearly stated that their calendar and stream lists are limited to very specific purposes, where they reserve the right to make exceptions. TL in the case of MLG would make an exception if it was paid to do so. TL's calendar is not a listing of all major tournaments. It never has been; to make it so would be a change in a policy, not a contradiction of their current one.
|
Get the 20$ and pay an AD in TL ^_^...But ... WP TL WP.
|
On February 24 2012 04:12 Gerend wrote:
Will you be showing that its going on without providing a link?
Will you be providing a link to the free stream?
I assume that there will be a LR-thread in the forum?
There is no free stream provided for MLG Winter Arena, therefore they can't provide a link.
I think the reasoning and decision by Team Liquid is just and fair to all parties involved, not least to those who do provide a free stream.
|
On February 24 2012 03:35 bOneSeven wrote:
everyone who is against this think of this. User opens teamliquid.net and then clicks on MLG streeam...oh well he won't be able to see anything from it because it is PPV only.
So? If a user opens TL and sees GSL is on, they can't watch that without downloading GOM player and being on a Windows PC and having installation permissions.
Also why does TL have to be a list of free events? An event is an event, if it's PPV it should be up to the user to decide what they are going to do about it, but at least they know it's on which is the whole point of a calendar.
|
|
|
The hordes of Europeans in this thread who do nothing to hide their desire to see MLG fail are hurting esports. The us vs them mentality is starting to take root, and doom may be upon us.
|
I wonder if the MLG PPV is actually going to be worth it for them.
Thanks for the info TL<3 100% agree with your PoV.
|
Perfectly reasonable by tl. gg wp.
|
On February 24 2012 04:24 farvacola wrote:
The hordes of Europeans in this thread who do nothing to hide their desire to see MLG fail are hurting esports. The us vs them mentality is starting to take root, and doom may be upon us.
This is not a us vs them debate... MLG did not want to pay for TL to be put on the Calander for thier ppv event. expecting it to be free like all gold members thought the winter arena would be to them
|
On February 24 2012 03:35 bOneSeven wrote:
everyone who is against this think of this. User opens teamliquid.net and then clicks on MLG streeam...oh well he won't be able to see anything from it because it is PPV only.
I don't understand what point you are reaching for. Most people who use TL will know about the Arena and the fact that it's PPV. I can't imagine the number of people who use TL, who are so causal that they would click the MLG link thinking they will be watching this event for free is very large at all. Those who didn't pay for it wouldn't click and those who did would.
|
On February 24 2012 04:24 farvacola wrote:
The hordes of Europeans in this thread who do nothing to hide their desire to see MLG fail are hurting esports. The us vs them mentality is starting to take root, and doom may be upon us.
Someone who sees xenophobia where there is none may be a xenophobe himself.
|
On February 23 2012 13:02 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 12:56 Ghanburighan wrote:
I understand the viewpoint, but I do not agree with the final decision nor the way it was conducted now.
TL as always tries to be transparent but there are questions here that need to be answered. If MLG offered referral program participation and TL refused and TL offered advertising space and MLG refused, then it seems to me that it's a question of money rather than principle. Didn't MLG offer enough money through the referral program and TL wanted more for advertising? Unless we know those numbers, it's hard to take this announcement at face value.
Secondly, it seems an impossible task for MLG (or anyone) to " find a revenue model that allows them to keep running successful events." if PPV will immediately cause costs to increase and reduce their community advertising. We know that TL is the hub for all things to SC2 and not being showcased here will damage their event.
Although, I don't think TL is the cause of these problems. I can imagine that MLG did not talk to TL quite as much as they could have, nor has MLG gone to great lengths to actually pay for these services (which, to be honest, are taken for granted by many). On the other hand, the Winter Arena must be one of the most frequently mentioned topics on TL at the moment, so perhaps removing the calendar option is mostly a demonstration of attitude than an actually painful lesson being taught to MLG. Neither of these conversations (the referral program or the calendar spot) reached the point where we were negotiating prices at all. We declined to be a part of the referral program for the reasons we stated, and they did not feel we should charge anything for the calendar entry.
Really?! MLG never once asked, "How much would this cost?"
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
