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The decision that's been made seems to have been made with some thought.
I think it's a bit weird, though, that it won't be on the calendar at all. Maybe just without front page listing?
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I applaud this, great initiative imo
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and now when Sheth, HayprO and Ret arrives to MLG Arena the MLG staff will approach them and guide them to the cheapest crappiest hotel ever and give them an Win 95 PC to play on ;D
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On February 23 2012 16:13 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 16:00 Spaceneil8 wrote:On February 23 2012 15:40 lichter wrote:On February 23 2012 15:35 Spaceneil8 wrote:On February 23 2012 15:15 lichter wrote:On February 23 2012 14:50 Xyl wrote:
So much unnecessary drama!
Between GSL 2012 Season 1 Solo and Team matches, MLG 2012 Season 1 matches, MLG Winter Arena matches, GSL's King of Kongs Tournament and December's AOL, I have watched so much Starcraft 2 these past 3 months and still have 1.5 months before both organizations have their 2012 season 2 events. With way more than enough games from only 2 organizations, I can go to the source to watch the events and don't require some calendar for easier access.
I feel it's comparable to folks who pirate movies - they want to watch as many movies as possible but don't want to pay for it and find a way to complain that each release in theaters or DVD/Bluray is too expensive. Meanwhile, those of us who care about quality chose what we watch and support our hobbies/passions with our income. We also understand that there's insufficient time to enjoy all the high quality releases even if we could afford 'em.
To summarize: MLG will do just fine, Hot Bid. The publicity of the main events will pull in new players much like it always has. And just like any PPV event, the hardcore/interested fans will support them and get an extra dose of awesome matches.
An aside: GOM's 2012 pricing (where even a Premium+ yearly ticket doesn't get you ever 2012 show) should be evidence that this tournament broadcasting is a business, and the best tournament organizers have to find more effective ways to monetize the business. MLG's pricing for 2012 ($20 PPV season tickets x 4 + $20 Gold membership = $100) is still much cheaper than GOM's. So I did some computations to see if this is true. According to my math: GSL will have ~3,350 games this year (counted number of sets per season, multipled by 3 games for simplicity which I will hold consistent for MLG as well, and 5 seasons). A yearly monthly ticket for GSL/GSTL will cost $239.88. That's ~14 games per dollar, without including Off the Record, AoL, and other special tournaments which are included in Monthly Premium +. MLG Arenas will have ~732 games (61 sets per tournament, 3 games per set like above, 4 seasons). The ticket for the whole year is $100 as you said. So that's 7.32 games per $1. Based on number of games, GSL has almost twice as many games per dollar (without counting special events) than MLG. Was bored at work so I was just curious about it :p Are you just counting Arenas? Why aren't you counting the main events if you are? The $20 only pay for the Arenas and not the main events. Is the main event still free? Not sure about that one actually. :D No point counting free stuff since GSL can also be watched for free. Well Arenas might not be 20$, and some are apparently free too. The Main events are free. You are counting free GSL seasons too. Idk, it's just tough to base it on numbers. All the Arenas, at least right now, are planned to cost $20 unless MLG see that they could earn more at a different price point. So $20 is a fair number since there is no other number to use. The main events are free, yes, so I didn't include them in the numbers. There are no free GSL seasons. I counted GSL and GSTL only, since we don't know about AoL yet, but it is included in the ticket. GSL and GSTL cost $19.99 per month, for the Premium+ subscription. I'm not saying one or the other is better, just wanted to show which has more games per paid dollar. Anyway if you have any idea how many games from the open bracket get casted (I'm assuming a minority) I can add up to MLG's totals. Edit: Assuming every round of 3 game from the Open bracket gets shown, as well as every Championship bracket game, around 2172 games will be shown by MLG this year (Arenas + main events). That's 21.72 games per dollar. Though I find it silly to add the main event games in the total, since they are free. If I counted GSL games you could watch for free it would be 3350 games for 0 dollars, though I admit they'd only be in SQ.
Ummm every season of GSL and GSTL is free. Even the AOL's have a free stream now.
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♥TL♥
Standing up to the man!
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On February 23 2012 16:25 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 16:13 lichter wrote:On February 23 2012 16:00 Spaceneil8 wrote:On February 23 2012 15:40 lichter wrote:On February 23 2012 15:35 Spaceneil8 wrote:On February 23 2012 15:15 lichter wrote:On February 23 2012 14:50 Xyl wrote:
So much unnecessary drama!
Between GSL 2012 Season 1 Solo and Team matches, MLG 2012 Season 1 matches, MLG Winter Arena matches, GSL's King of Kongs Tournament and December's AOL, I have watched so much Starcraft 2 these past 3 months and still have 1.5 months before both organizations have their 2012 season 2 events. With way more than enough games from only 2 organizations, I can go to the source to watch the events and don't require some calendar for easier access.
I feel it's comparable to folks who pirate movies - they want to watch as many movies as possible but don't want to pay for it and find a way to complain that each release in theaters or DVD/Bluray is too expensive. Meanwhile, those of us who care about quality chose what we watch and support our hobbies/passions with our income. We also understand that there's insufficient time to enjoy all the high quality releases even if we could afford 'em.
To summarize: MLG will do just fine, Hot Bid. The publicity of the main events will pull in new players much like it always has. And just like any PPV event, the hardcore/interested fans will support them and get an extra dose of awesome matches.
An aside: GOM's 2012 pricing (where even a Premium+ yearly ticket doesn't get you ever 2012 show) should be evidence that this tournament broadcasting is a business, and the best tournament organizers have to find more effective ways to monetize the business. MLG's pricing for 2012 ($20 PPV season tickets x 4 + $20 Gold membership = $100) is still much cheaper than GOM's. So I did some computations to see if this is true. According to my math: GSL will have ~3,350 games this year (counted number of sets per season, multipled by 3 games for simplicity which I will hold consistent for MLG as well, and 5 seasons). A yearly monthly ticket for GSL/GSTL will cost $239.88. That's ~14 games per dollar, without including Off the Record, AoL, and other special tournaments which are included in Monthly Premium +. MLG Arenas will have ~732 games (61 sets per tournament, 3 games per set like above, 4 seasons). The ticket for the whole year is $100 as you said. So that's 7.32 games per $1. Based on number of games, GSL has almost twice as many games per dollar (without counting special events) than MLG. Was bored at work so I was just curious about it :p Are you just counting Arenas? Why aren't you counting the main events if you are? The $20 only pay for the Arenas and not the main events. Is the main event still free? Not sure about that one actually. :D No point counting free stuff since GSL can also be watched for free. Well Arenas might not be 20$, and some are apparently free too. The Main events are free. You are counting free GSL seasons too. Idk, it's just tough to base it on numbers. All the Arenas, at least right now, are planned to cost $20 unless MLG see that they could earn more at a different price point. So $20 is a fair number since there is no other number to use. The main events are free, yes, so I didn't include them in the numbers. There are no free GSL seasons. I counted GSL and GSTL only, since we don't know about AoL yet, but it is included in the ticket. GSL and GSTL cost $19.99 per month, for the Premium+ subscription. I'm not saying one or the other is better, just wanted to show which has more games per paid dollar. Anyway if you have any idea how many games from the open bracket get casted (I'm assuming a minority) I can add up to MLG's totals. Edit: Assuming every round of 3 game from the Open bracket gets shown, as well as every Championship bracket game, around 2172 games will be shown by MLG this year (Arenas + main events). That's 21.72 games per dollar. Though I find it silly to add the main event games in the total, since they are free. If I counted GSL games you could watch for free it would be 3350 games for 0 dollars, though I admit they'd only be in SQ. Ummm every season of GSL and GSTL is free. Even the AOL's have a free stream now.
Yes yes but like I said there'd be no point for computations if I just counted the free streams (see edit). There'd be no way to compare supposed 'bang for buck' for each tournament. That's why I didn't count the ability to watch GSL free, nor the main tournament of MLG, only paid premium GSL vs MLG Arenas. =/
Anyway I'm off work now so no more boredom for me :D
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This is huge for MLG. Like many others the TL calendar is the main (heck, ONLY) way I keep track of tournament times. Even though I have already bought my pass to the Arena, I can see TL's (perfectly reasoned) decision preventing a lot of more casual sc2 fans from hearing about or remembering that MLG Arena is on this weekend.
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On February 23 2012 16:23 elKaDor wrote:
and now when Sheth, HayprO and Ret arrives to MLG Arena the MLG staff will approach them and guide them to the cheapest crappiest hotel ever and give them an Win 95 PC to play on ;D
What stops them to refuse to play the tournament so that paid viewers rage because they don't get what they paid for? ;D
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On February 23 2012 16:13 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 16:00 Spaceneil8 wrote:On February 23 2012 15:40 lichter wrote:On February 23 2012 15:35 Spaceneil8 wrote:On February 23 2012 15:15 lichter wrote:On February 23 2012 14:50 Xyl wrote:
So much unnecessary drama!
Between GSL 2012 Season 1 Solo and Team matches, MLG 2012 Season 1 matches, MLG Winter Arena matches, GSL's King of Kongs Tournament and December's AOL, I have watched so much Starcraft 2 these past 3 months and still have 1.5 months before both organizations have their 2012 season 2 events. With way more than enough games from only 2 organizations, I can go to the source to watch the events and don't require some calendar for easier access.
I feel it's comparable to folks who pirate movies - they want to watch as many movies as possible but don't want to pay for it and find a way to complain that each release in theaters or DVD/Bluray is too expensive. Meanwhile, those of us who care about quality chose what we watch and support our hobbies/passions with our income. We also understand that there's insufficient time to enjoy all the high quality releases even if we could afford 'em.
To summarize: MLG will do just fine, Hot Bid. The publicity of the main events will pull in new players much like it always has. And just like any PPV event, the hardcore/interested fans will support them and get an extra dose of awesome matches.
An aside: GOM's 2012 pricing (where even a Premium+ yearly ticket doesn't get you ever 2012 show) should be evidence that this tournament broadcasting is a business, and the best tournament organizers have to find more effective ways to monetize the business. MLG's pricing for 2012 ($20 PPV season tickets x 4 + $20 Gold membership = $100) is still much cheaper than GOM's. So I did some computations to see if this is true. According to my math: GSL will have ~3,350 games this year (counted number of sets per season, multipled by 3 games for simplicity which I will hold consistent for MLG as well, and 5 seasons). A yearly monthly ticket for GSL/GSTL will cost $239.88. That's ~14 games per dollar, without including Off the Record, AoL, and other special tournaments which are included in Monthly Premium +. MLG Arenas will have ~732 games (61 sets per tournament, 3 games per set like above, 4 seasons). The ticket for the whole year is $100 as you said. So that's 7.32 games per $1. Based on number of games, GSL has almost twice as many games per dollar (without counting special events) than MLG. Was bored at work so I was just curious about it :p Are you just counting Arenas? Why aren't you counting the main events if you are? The $20 only pay for the Arenas and not the main events. Is the main event still free? Not sure about that one actually. :D No point counting free stuff since GSL can also be watched for free. Well Arenas might not be 20$, and some are apparently free too. The Main events are free. You are counting free GSL seasons too. Idk, it's just tough to base it on numbers. All the Arenas, at least right now, are planned to cost $20 unless MLG see that they could earn more at a different price point. So $20 is a fair number since there is no other number to use. The main events are free, yes, so I didn't include them in the numbers. There are no free GSL seasons. I counted GSL and GSTL only, since we don't know about AoL yet, but it is included in the ticket. GSL and GSTL cost $19.99 per month, for the Premium+ subscription. I'm not saying one or the other is better, just wanted to show which has more games per paid dollar. Anyway if you have any idea how many games from the open bracket get casted (I'm assuming a minority) I can add up to MLG's totals. Edit: Assuming every round of 3 game from the Open bracket gets shown, as well as every Championship bracket game, around 2172 games will be shown by MLG this year (Arenas + main events). That's 21.72 games per dollar. Though I find it silly to add the main event games in the total, since they are free. If I counted GSL games you could watch for free it would be 3350 games for 0 dollars, though I admit they'd only be in SQ.
Well I'd assume you'd count in Gold which is $30. Because you are watching in HQ the whole time. Main events are $30 for all of them. And I believe sundance said after winter there is 2 arenas per season. And one is free.
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thanks a ton, you guys are fucking awesome. keep up the good work tl!
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illsick
United States1770 Posts
I understand why TL would do this....
but seems to be more harm than good? The starcraft scene is centered mostly around TL (in the foreigner scene) and helping big leagues like MLG that supports their players to play in seems like an "exception" worth doing. The leagues support TL with content to be covered, their pro players to play in, and exposure (eg. husky casting and mentioning TL, showing their players games). Should be supporting each other because a healthy MLG (or IEM, GSL, DH) = a healthy TL community.
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when you think about it, this thread is free advertising 
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Well played Teamliquid, love being a part of this community
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Makes sense. +1 thumbs up! Nice to see TL got their stuff worked out for the community.
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illsick
United States1770 Posts
"We want our users to be able to go and watch in one click. We want users to stay on TL, not be constantly redirected off site. This is good for us and good for the convenience of our users. "
does GSL not follow this guideline?
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This is a bad decision and the calendar rules should be changed so that the informative aspect of it does not suffer. It is a calendar and as such the informative aspect of it is more important. There is a separate live stream list, which obviously focuses on utility.
Even if I'm not interested in paying for the event, I'm interested in knowing that a major tournament is taking place, so that I can then follow the results via a live thread. I do not think it is a reasonable position to claim that including these rare high profile events that do not offer a free stream is detrimental to the utility aspect of the calendar. Obviously if the event is very minor you can then argue that the informative value of including it does not outweigh the loss in utility and thus not list the event.
It is fine if TL wants to take a stance against MLG's model and not list it based on that, but I do not find the alternative explanation reasonable. A starcraft esports site not including one of the biggest events of the year on their event calendar seems laughable to me.
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On February 23 2012 17:02 illsick wrote:
"We want our users to be able to go and watch in one click. We want users to stay on TL, not be constantly redirected off site. This is good for us and good for the convenience of our users. "
does GSL not follow this guideline?
On February 23 2012 12:51 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 12:49 GGQ wrote:
I respect the decision, but you guys do link to unembedded streams sometimes, yeah? We make exceptions sometimes, but very rarely. For instance we do for GOM, and I don't think it'd be fair to them since their entire company is named after GOM player to force them not to use that player and embed on TL.
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Seems perfectly clear to me, I don't see how anyone can have much of a problem with this. I probably wouldn't have even noticed until it was mentioned here though haha
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Imo the right thing to do.
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EPT
