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United States4796 Posts
Agreeing with TL once again.
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i completely agree, and i'm okay with this.
I'd still love if it was listed in upcoming events though, idk, it helps me work out what time it will be on in my timezone, which is way too much of a hassle otherwise, thats said i totally understand why it isnt listed there.
TY for explaining it all though , i was confused as to why it wasnt on there
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On February 23 2012 15:15 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 14:50 Xyl wrote:
So much unnecessary drama!
Between GSL 2012 Season 1 Solo and Team matches, MLG 2012 Season 1 matches, MLG Winter Arena matches, GSL's King of Kongs Tournament and December's AOL, I have watched so much Starcraft 2 these past 3 months and still have 1.5 months before both organizations have their 2012 season 2 events. With way more than enough games from only 2 organizations, I can go to the source to watch the events and don't require some calendar for easier access.
I feel it's comparable to folks who pirate movies - they want to watch as many movies as possible but don't want to pay for it and find a way to complain that each release in theaters or DVD/Bluray is too expensive. Meanwhile, those of us who care about quality chose what we watch and support our hobbies/passions with our income. We also understand that there's insufficient time to enjoy all the high quality releases even if we could afford 'em.
To summarize: MLG will do just fine, Hot Bid. The publicity of the main events will pull in new players much like it always has. And just like any PPV event, the hardcore/interested fans will support them and get an extra dose of awesome matches.
An aside: GOM's 2012 pricing (where even a Premium+ yearly ticket doesn't get you ever 2012 show) should be evidence that this tournament broadcasting is a business, and the best tournament organizers have to find more effective ways to monetize the business. MLG's pricing for 2012 ($20 PPV season tickets x 4 + $20 Gold membership = $100) is still much cheaper than GOM's. So I did some computations to see if this is true. According to my math: GSL will have ~3,350 games this year (counted number of sets per season, multipled by 3 games for simplicity which I will hold consistent for MLG as well, and 5 seasons). A yearly monthly ticket for GSL/GSTL will cost $239.88. That's ~14 games per dollar, without including Off the Record, AoL, and other special tournaments which are included in Monthly Premium +. MLG Arenas will have ~732 games (61 sets per tournament, 3 games per set like above, 4 seasons). The ticket for the whole year is $100 as you said. So that's 7.32 games per $1. Based on number of games, GSL has almost twice as many games per dollar (without counting special events) than MLG. Was bored at work so I was just curious about it :p
Are you just counting Arenas? Why aren't you counting the main events if you are?
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Sorry, I didn't read all the posts, but if MLG can not afford a featured entry like ASUS ROG, they can not be listed... especially they are only PPV.
TL is a huge hub for tournaments and TL brings viewers as you can see in every single tournament.
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very smart and responsible move by TL, always drawing my full respect ( sheth does a good job of this too =] )
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On February 23 2012 15:35 Spaceneil8 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 15:15 lichter wrote:On February 23 2012 14:50 Xyl wrote:
So much unnecessary drama!
Between GSL 2012 Season 1 Solo and Team matches, MLG 2012 Season 1 matches, MLG Winter Arena matches, GSL's King of Kongs Tournament and December's AOL, I have watched so much Starcraft 2 these past 3 months and still have 1.5 months before both organizations have their 2012 season 2 events. With way more than enough games from only 2 organizations, I can go to the source to watch the events and don't require some calendar for easier access.
I feel it's comparable to folks who pirate movies - they want to watch as many movies as possible but don't want to pay for it and find a way to complain that each release in theaters or DVD/Bluray is too expensive. Meanwhile, those of us who care about quality chose what we watch and support our hobbies/passions with our income. We also understand that there's insufficient time to enjoy all the high quality releases even if we could afford 'em.
To summarize: MLG will do just fine, Hot Bid. The publicity of the main events will pull in new players much like it always has. And just like any PPV event, the hardcore/interested fans will support them and get an extra dose of awesome matches.
An aside: GOM's 2012 pricing (where even a Premium+ yearly ticket doesn't get you ever 2012 show) should be evidence that this tournament broadcasting is a business, and the best tournament organizers have to find more effective ways to monetize the business. MLG's pricing for 2012 ($20 PPV season tickets x 4 + $20 Gold membership = $100) is still much cheaper than GOM's. So I did some computations to see if this is true. According to my math: GSL will have ~3,350 games this year (counted number of sets per season, multipled by 3 games for simplicity which I will hold consistent for MLG as well, and 5 seasons). A yearly monthly ticket for GSL/GSTL will cost $239.88. That's ~14 games per dollar, without including Off the Record, AoL, and other special tournaments which are included in Monthly Premium +. MLG Arenas will have ~732 games (61 sets per tournament, 3 games per set like above, 4 seasons). The ticket for the whole year is $100 as you said. So that's 7.32 games per $1. Based on number of games, GSL has almost twice as many games per dollar (without counting special events) than MLG. Was bored at work so I was just curious about it :p Are you just counting Arenas? Why aren't you counting the main events if you are?
The $20 only pay for the Arenas and not the main events. Is the main event still free? Not sure about that one actually. :D No point counting free stuff since GSL can also be watched for free.
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On February 23 2012 15:15 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 14:50 Xyl wrote:
So much unnecessary drama!
Between GSL 2012 Season 1 Solo and Team matches, MLG 2012 Season 1 matches, MLG Winter Arena matches, GSL's King of Kongs Tournament and December's AOL, I have watched so much Starcraft 2 these past 3 months and still have 1.5 months before both organizations have their 2012 season 2 events. With way more than enough games from only 2 organizations, I can go to the source to watch the events and don't require some calendar for easier access.
I feel it's comparable to folks who pirate movies - they want to watch as many movies as possible but don't want to pay for it and find a way to complain that each release in theaters or DVD/Bluray is too expensive. Meanwhile, those of us who care about quality chose what we watch and support our hobbies/passions with our income. We also understand that there's insufficient time to enjoy all the high quality releases even if we could afford 'em.
To summarize: MLG will do just fine, Hot Bid. The publicity of the main events will pull in new players much like it always has. And just like any PPV event, the hardcore/interested fans will support them and get an extra dose of awesome matches.
An aside: GOM's 2012 pricing (where even a Premium+ yearly ticket doesn't get you ever 2012 show) should be evidence that this tournament broadcasting is a business, and the best tournament organizers have to find more effective ways to monetize the business. MLG's pricing for 2012 ($20 PPV season tickets x 4 + $20 Gold membership = $100) is still much cheaper than GOM's. So I did some computations to see if this is true. According to my math: GSL will have ~3,350 games this year (counted number of sets per season, multipled by 3 games for simplicity which I will hold consistent for MLG as well, and 5 seasons). A yearly monthly ticket for GSL/GSTL will cost $239.88. That's ~14 games per dollar, without including Off the Record, AoL, and other special tournaments which are included in Monthly Premium +. MLG Arenas will have ~732 games (61 sets per tournament, 3 games per set like above, 4 seasons). The ticket for the whole year is $100 as you said. So that's 7.32 games per $1. Based on number of games, GSL has almost twice as many games per dollar (without counting special events) than MLG. Was bored at work so I was just curious about it :p
Bo3 average about 2.4 games per set. Otherwise your numbers look about right.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On February 23 2012 15:41 Primadog wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 15:15 lichter wrote:On February 23 2012 14:50 Xyl wrote:
So much unnecessary drama!
Between GSL 2012 Season 1 Solo and Team matches, MLG 2012 Season 1 matches, MLG Winter Arena matches, GSL's King of Kongs Tournament and December's AOL, I have watched so much Starcraft 2 these past 3 months and still have 1.5 months before both organizations have their 2012 season 2 events. With way more than enough games from only 2 organizations, I can go to the source to watch the events and don't require some calendar for easier access.
I feel it's comparable to folks who pirate movies - they want to watch as many movies as possible but don't want to pay for it and find a way to complain that each release in theaters or DVD/Bluray is too expensive. Meanwhile, those of us who care about quality chose what we watch and support our hobbies/passions with our income. We also understand that there's insufficient time to enjoy all the high quality releases even if we could afford 'em.
To summarize: MLG will do just fine, Hot Bid. The publicity of the main events will pull in new players much like it always has. And just like any PPV event, the hardcore/interested fans will support them and get an extra dose of awesome matches.
An aside: GOM's 2012 pricing (where even a Premium+ yearly ticket doesn't get you ever 2012 show) should be evidence that this tournament broadcasting is a business, and the best tournament organizers have to find more effective ways to monetize the business. MLG's pricing for 2012 ($20 PPV season tickets x 4 + $20 Gold membership = $100) is still much cheaper than GOM's. So I did some computations to see if this is true. According to my math: GSL will have ~3,350 games this year (counted number of sets per season, multipled by 3 games for simplicity which I will hold consistent for MLG as well, and 5 seasons). A yearly monthly ticket for GSL/GSTL will cost $239.88. That's ~14 games per dollar, without including Off the Record, AoL, and other special tournaments which are included in Monthly Premium +. MLG Arenas will have ~732 games (61 sets per tournament, 3 games per set like above, 4 seasons). The ticket for the whole year is $100 as you said. So that's 7.32 games per $1. Based on number of games, GSL has almost twice as many games per dollar (without counting special events) than MLG. Was bored at work so I was just curious about it :p Bo3 average about 2.4 games per set. Otherwise your numbers look about right.
Yeah, but there are Bo5s and Bo7s as well so I rounded up to 3, though it should probably be a bit more than that. And I wasn't THAT bored to look up averages for each set type. :p I also used 7 games for GSTL, forgot to mention. I am pretty sure someone more bored than I can go and count the number of games this season :D
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United States13896 Posts
On February 23 2012 15:20 hatespam wrote:
i wonder how much they wanted to charge for advertising in the calendar
On February 23 2012 13:02 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 12:56 Ghanburighan wrote:
I understand the viewpoint, but I do not agree with the final decision nor the way it was conducted now.
TL as always tries to be transparent but there are questions here that need to be answered. If MLG offered referral program participation and TL refused and TL offered advertising space and MLG refused, then it seems to me that it's a question of money rather than principle. Didn't MLG offer enough money through the referral program and TL wanted more for advertising? Unless we know those numbers, it's hard to take this announcement at face value.
Secondly, it seems an impossible task for MLG (or anyone) to " find a revenue model that allows them to keep running successful events." if PPV will immediately cause costs to increase and reduce their community advertising. We know that TL is the hub for all things to SC2 and not being showcased here will damage their event.
Although, I don't think TL is the cause of these problems. I can imagine that MLG did not talk to TL quite as much as they could have, nor has MLG gone to great lengths to actually pay for these services (which, to be honest, are taken for granted by many). On the other hand, the Winter Arena must be one of the most frequently mentioned topics on TL at the moment, so perhaps removing the calendar option is mostly a demonstration of attitude than an actually painful lesson being taught to MLG. Neither of these conversations (the referral program or the calendar spot) reached the point where we were negotiating prices at all. We declined to be a part of the referral program for the reasons we stated, and they did not feel we should charge anything for the calendar entry.
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TL making hard decisions like this is exactly why it's the number one Starcraft forum by far
You guys are badasses <3
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sounds like a good decision
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On February 23 2012 15:40 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 15:35 Spaceneil8 wrote:On February 23 2012 15:15 lichter wrote:On February 23 2012 14:50 Xyl wrote:
So much unnecessary drama!
Between GSL 2012 Season 1 Solo and Team matches, MLG 2012 Season 1 matches, MLG Winter Arena matches, GSL's King of Kongs Tournament and December's AOL, I have watched so much Starcraft 2 these past 3 months and still have 1.5 months before both organizations have their 2012 season 2 events. With way more than enough games from only 2 organizations, I can go to the source to watch the events and don't require some calendar for easier access.
I feel it's comparable to folks who pirate movies - they want to watch as many movies as possible but don't want to pay for it and find a way to complain that each release in theaters or DVD/Bluray is too expensive. Meanwhile, those of us who care about quality chose what we watch and support our hobbies/passions with our income. We also understand that there's insufficient time to enjoy all the high quality releases even if we could afford 'em.
To summarize: MLG will do just fine, Hot Bid. The publicity of the main events will pull in new players much like it always has. And just like any PPV event, the hardcore/interested fans will support them and get an extra dose of awesome matches.
An aside: GOM's 2012 pricing (where even a Premium+ yearly ticket doesn't get you ever 2012 show) should be evidence that this tournament broadcasting is a business, and the best tournament organizers have to find more effective ways to monetize the business. MLG's pricing for 2012 ($20 PPV season tickets x 4 + $20 Gold membership = $100) is still much cheaper than GOM's. So I did some computations to see if this is true. According to my math: GSL will have ~3,350 games this year (counted number of sets per season, multipled by 3 games for simplicity which I will hold consistent for MLG as well, and 5 seasons). A yearly monthly ticket for GSL/GSTL will cost $239.88. That's ~14 games per dollar, without including Off the Record, AoL, and other special tournaments which are included in Monthly Premium +. MLG Arenas will have ~732 games (61 sets per tournament, 3 games per set like above, 4 seasons). The ticket for the whole year is $100 as you said. So that's 7.32 games per $1. Based on number of games, GSL has almost twice as many games per dollar (without counting special events) than MLG. Was bored at work so I was just curious about it :p Are you just counting Arenas? Why aren't you counting the main events if you are? The $20 only pay for the Arenas and not the main events. Is the main event still free? Not sure about that one actually. :D No point counting free stuff since GSL can also be watched for free.
Well Arenas might not be 20$, and some are apparently free too. The Main events are free. You are counting free GSL seasons too. Idk, it's just tough to base it on numbers.
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On February 23 2012 13:44 iAmiAnC wrote:
I hope the MLG event will get the coverage it deserves in other parts of TL. There are much worse tournament organisers than MLG and it would be a shame if things went wrong for them in SC2.
If things 'go wrong' for them.. they only need look in the mirror as to why 
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was it necessary to say your thoughts, officially, of the PPV model? i feel like its an imposing opinion, not from a person, but from a website, and gives the wrong message of what TL is.
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absolutely makes sense.
its a tough business - its fine that MLG tries to earn ppv money, but its ofc fine to not advertise for it.
(but im obviously biased, cuz i dont like the prize tag MLG went for^^)
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to be honest, I completly forgot MLG was on, I use TL for pretty much all event info, as I am sure many thousands of others.
I simply cannot afford $20 to watch a weekend of SC2. Especially when there are many other events out there qith players just as good as ones attending MLG.
I think this MLG is going to have far worse viewership than they expect.
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On February 23 2012 14:17 Golgotha wrote:
hmm this really hurts mlg. and imo TL should just let winter arena be on the schedule because if MLG fails, it will hurt the whole scene. however, i do understand that rules are rules.
Amazing how this 'mantra' has gotten spread. In fact.. if MLG fails.. it could help esports. Organizations will see this as a wake up call to be more structured and sustainable and we will all benefit in the long run!
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On February 23 2012 16:00 Spaceneil8 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 15:40 lichter wrote:On February 23 2012 15:35 Spaceneil8 wrote:On February 23 2012 15:15 lichter wrote:On February 23 2012 14:50 Xyl wrote:
So much unnecessary drama!
Between GSL 2012 Season 1 Solo and Team matches, MLG 2012 Season 1 matches, MLG Winter Arena matches, GSL's King of Kongs Tournament and December's AOL, I have watched so much Starcraft 2 these past 3 months and still have 1.5 months before both organizations have their 2012 season 2 events. With way more than enough games from only 2 organizations, I can go to the source to watch the events and don't require some calendar for easier access.
I feel it's comparable to folks who pirate movies - they want to watch as many movies as possible but don't want to pay for it and find a way to complain that each release in theaters or DVD/Bluray is too expensive. Meanwhile, those of us who care about quality chose what we watch and support our hobbies/passions with our income. We also understand that there's insufficient time to enjoy all the high quality releases even if we could afford 'em.
To summarize: MLG will do just fine, Hot Bid. The publicity of the main events will pull in new players much like it always has. And just like any PPV event, the hardcore/interested fans will support them and get an extra dose of awesome matches.
An aside: GOM's 2012 pricing (where even a Premium+ yearly ticket doesn't get you ever 2012 show) should be evidence that this tournament broadcasting is a business, and the best tournament organizers have to find more effective ways to monetize the business. MLG's pricing for 2012 ($20 PPV season tickets x 4 + $20 Gold membership = $100) is still much cheaper than GOM's. So I did some computations to see if this is true. According to my math: GSL will have ~3,350 games this year (counted number of sets per season, multipled by 3 games for simplicity which I will hold consistent for MLG as well, and 5 seasons). A yearly monthly ticket for GSL/GSTL will cost $239.88. That's ~14 games per dollar, without including Off the Record, AoL, and other special tournaments which are included in Monthly Premium +. MLG Arenas will have ~732 games (61 sets per tournament, 3 games per set like above, 4 seasons). The ticket for the whole year is $100 as you said. So that's 7.32 games per $1. Based on number of games, GSL has almost twice as many games per dollar (without counting special events) than MLG. Was bored at work so I was just curious about it :p Are you just counting Arenas? Why aren't you counting the main events if you are? The $20 only pay for the Arenas and not the main events. Is the main event still free? Not sure about that one actually. :D No point counting free stuff since GSL can also be watched for free. Well Arenas might not be 20$, and some are apparently free too. The Main events are free. You are counting free GSL seasons too. Idk, it's just tough to base it on numbers.
All the Arenas, at least right now, are planned to cost $20 unless MLG see that they could earn more at a different price point. So $20 is a fair number since there is no other number to use.
The main events are free, yes, so I didn't include them in the numbers.
There are no free GSL seasons. I counted GSL and GSTL only, since we don't know about AoL yet, but it is included in the ticket. GSL and GSTL cost $19.99 per month, for the Premium+ subscription.
I'm not saying one or the other is better, just wanted to show which has more games per paid dollar.
Anyway if you have any idea how many games from the open bracket get casted (I'm assuming a minority) I can add up to MLG's totals.
Edit: Assuming every round of 3 game from the Open bracket gets shown, as well as every Championship bracket game, around 2172 games will be shown by MLG this year (Arenas + main events). That's 21.72 games per dollar. Though I find it silly to add the main event games in the total, since they are free. If I counted GSL games you could watch for free it would be 3350 games for 0 dollars, though I admit they'd only be in SQ.
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EPT
