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On February 13 2012 02:27 BBshakenbake wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 01:42 Deleuze wrote:
Hmm, I know that a topic like this is going to attract a major amount of skepticism...
All I can say is that this project is going to require an insane, and I mean INSANE, amount of work to pull off. While the grass roots ethos is of course very nice, if this is to be successful it will need to come topic down - you will need to approach the content providers themselves to see if they really need and are interested in this venture. Looking on the Live Stream bar to my right all of the featured streams are either big sponsored/ticketed tournaments or big team players; they all have sources of income that essentially are derived in the same way as Flattr - popularity equals payment.
I guess your target market will be the content providers of the middle range streamers &c that are unable to secure regular income.
At the other end, there are the consumers which you also need to attract, and no matter how you phrase it you will need to attract these away from TL or to have some kind of integration within the site - I think this is unlikely. Otherwise it will be a case of a user watching a stream from say twitch embedded into TL, then for the user to jump to your site to like it and make the 'microdonation' - which I doubt anyone will do. I am understanding this correctly, right?
Also, the phrase 'social microtransactions' makes me wanna be sick - whether this is the future of tinternet or not it just makes me shiver.
That you give your press release via a verbose post on the TL SC2 forum itself speaks volumes.... Hi Deleuze, thank you for some great feedback. We are definitely aware of the amount of work this kind of project will require, and yes, it scares us a bit. But at the same time we are really thrilled because if we succeed we will actually have helped the community. This is also the main reason for us not going full throttle in the development of this project - as we will need to hear what the community actually think about something like this. We will need to hear input from the consumers, the contributors, TL and basically every part of the community before we even think of proceeding with this. You are correct about middle range streamers and other community members doing a lot for the community but not getting any direct financial support for their work, being the target group for this project. We have also considered the fact that it is not optimal to have a third party site divided from the actual content. You are absolutely right, people would prefer to support the contributor right at the source and an integration with TL would be the best thing ever. We have some technical solutions, but they don't really matter right now. The thing that actually matters is getting a lot of attention from the community. If we get a lot of positive feedback from community here, we have something to show for the major content providers and sites like TL. If we can prove that this is something the community actually wants, we can start integration discussions with TL and other sites. Without the voice of the community backing us up, discussions with the top tier would probably be pointless. Note that integration with other sites is something that is possible with Flattr, hence the choice to make it the base of the platform. Please do consider this as the concept it is, and not a final product. This is just and idea we have which we put some work behind to be able to present it. It's something we do because we think it's fun and it has the potential of being really useful.
Well awesome is all I can say then. I'm glad you are really thinking about this rather than going ahead without any feedback from SC2 stakeholders.
Good luck, the microtransaction module is meant to be the future of money circulating the net - it's 'buzz word' status just has a tendency to make me gag on occasion... Hopefully the concept will work and SC2 will have found an answer to the money problems.
I'd STRONGLY suggested you speak to Total Biscuit in that case - for the Shout Craft Invitational they operated a 'tip jar' method of spectators paying small sums to the players (and I think the organisation); this was on top of any winnings that players did (and didn't get) in the tournament proper. From what I've seen on TL Total Biscuit is very receptive to community ideas/thread (with a tendency to get banned and flame). Of course I'm in no way a spokes person for TB though I do think he deserves a hell of a lot of respect from the community, so please take my words with a dash of salt. TB if you are reading this - sorry if I have opened the floodgates to your inbox!
Good luck in your future endeavors - will keep an eye out.
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This stands and falls with the website design. Make sure it's easy to use, accessible and userfriendly, because the idea sounds good
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On February 13 2012 03:30 Artimo wrote:
sounds ok at first. but the vibe im getting is that they just want a piece of the sc pie.
i dunno. i guess we'll have to wait and see.
Yeah. I don't see how the site is going to accomplish what TL already does organically. Good luck in your endeavors though, I'll check it out if you guys go through with it.
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On February 13 2012 03:30 Artimo wrote:
sounds ok at first. but the vibe im getting is that they just want a piece of the sc pie.
i dunno. i guess we'll have to wait and see.
What's wrong with that?
Overall I think it's a concept that can work. As one user pointed out, you will have to be spot on with your design, interaction, easy of use as much as you are with your functionality. Make sure it's straightforward and makes sense from a UX point of view.
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Kind of hard to give feedback without being able to use it.
It sounds nice, but that's all I can say.
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On February 13 2012 03:16 TBone- wrote:
Why should I use this service over team liquid's calendar and stream links?
You won't go to our site to see what streams are live and watch them, you go to it to support the streamer through various donation systems of your choice.
On February 13 2012 03:19 ceaRshaf wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 13 2012 02:32 BBshakenbake wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 01:53 smwatkin wrote:
sounds like a good project. What's the ETA? Thank you! There is no current ETA as everything is depending on the feedback we get from the community. But no matter what this is a huge project and will require a lot of developing and testing. If this is something that seems like a good idea to the community, we will try to publish a beta as soon as possible (x months). But as I said, this all comes down to how the community embraces the concept and how much constructive feedback/help we get  Usually the community is negative until you show them something. So pitching the idea to the community might not be the best thing.
This project is too big to be able to just begin developing and show of a part of. If we built any more than we have done so far we would most likely have to rebuild a lot after hearing what the community had to say. The blog and GitHub will have to suffice for now. And by the looks of it, a lot or people are getting the concept. We will be posting more wireframes and updates on the fly.
On February 13 2012 03:31 ETisME wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I quite like the idea, I could see myself using it quite often to check some guides that is written by a specific person and see how he evolves his strategies. I would say SC2 is big enough for more than TL and reddit, especially since TL is the only site that really get it right along with strategy discussion etc.
But it will take a lot of content to attract people to use it. I could see that even without the donations, it could be ideal for not well-known SC2 content providers to start up an account here but progamers, big names like husky are the ones that will make the site big.
It will need good layout, points to separate itself from TL and reddit, something that keeps the fans coming back.
Anyway, GL to it. Will try out the beta if it ever comes out
It seems like you get our vision! Yes, the layout and interaction design will be of most importance and we will put a lot of energy on it.
On February 13 2012 03:41 skipgamer wrote:+ Show Spoiler +It's a good idea. I hope you don't make things too sc2-centric though, all types of content producers for all types of games really need an easy way to be followed. For example I like watching everything from lets-play's for Minecraft and WoW machinima through to pro-gamer streams and tournaments for all types of games from Quake to Trackmania (though that's kind of dying) and what I've always wanted is one "portal" by which to access all my content.
TL has been great for SC2, it really has, I don't think the SC2 scene would be anywhere near what it is without TL. So many great content producers were saying that this is THE community for SC, and so the fans came. If you could develop a place where content producers could say fans should go that covers not only one game, but all games, and in turn a place where people new to watching game-based media in general could go to watch content, and learn about gaming though all different types of content, it would be incredible, and a boon to the gaming community at large far beyond the starcraft community.
Anyway, I don't know if this is within your scope as you say your main goal is to increase direct monetization opportunities for content producers in the Starcraft community, so I'm assuming you will be more focused on the financial side of things. I just think it would be great personally to increase the scope of the project, if not at first, at least in time
We have definitely thought of taking the platform to all gaming communities out there, but that lies waaaay further in time. We picked to try the idea on the Starcraft community first because it's the only one we know thoroughly, really love and by our standars; the most dedicated and serious one.
If this site is utilized to the fullest extent byt the SC community, we will probably make a sister site for another community and so on. But for now; just Starcraft.
On February 13 2012 04:34 lastkarrde wrote:
Why NodeJS? It doesn't make sense to use an event platform for a relatively straight forward CRUD website..
I don't know the main reason for picking Node.js as I am not one of the developers, but what I can recall is that the developers thought it would be fun to try making it in Node and sees a lot of potential in it. I'll ask a developer to answer more thoroughly tomorrow!
On February 13 2012 04:57 Deleuze wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 13 2012 02:27 BBshakenbake wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 01:42 Deleuze wrote:
Hmm, I know that a topic like this is going to attract a major amount of skepticism...
All I can say is that this project is going to require an insane, and I mean INSANE, amount of work to pull off. While the grass roots ethos is of course very nice, if this is to be successful it will need to come topic down - you will need to approach the content providers themselves to see if they really need and are interested in this venture. Looking on the Live Stream bar to my right all of the featured streams are either big sponsored/ticketed tournaments or big team players; they all have sources of income that essentially are derived in the same way as Flattr - popularity equals payment.
I guess your target market will be the content providers of the middle range streamers &c that are unable to secure regular income.
At the other end, there are the consumers which you also need to attract, and no matter how you phrase it you will need to attract these away from TL or to have some kind of integration within the site - I think this is unlikely. Otherwise it will be a case of a user watching a stream from say twitch embedded into TL, then for the user to jump to your site to like it and make the 'microdonation' - which I doubt anyone will do. I am understanding this correctly, right?
Also, the phrase 'social microtransactions' makes me wanna be sick - whether this is the future of tinternet or not it just makes me shiver.
That you give your press release via a verbose post on the TL SC2 forum itself speaks volumes.... Hi Deleuze, thank you for some great feedback. We are definitely aware of the amount of work this kind of project will require, and yes, it scares us a bit. But at the same time we are really thrilled because if we succeed we will actually have helped the community. This is also the main reason for us not going full throttle in the development of this project - as we will need to hear what the community actually think about something like this. We will need to hear input from the consumers, the contributors, TL and basically every part of the community before we even think of proceeding with this. You are correct about middle range streamers and other community members doing a lot for the community but not getting any direct financial support for their work, being the target group for this project. We have also considered the fact that it is not optimal to have a third party site divided from the actual content. You are absolutely right, people would prefer to support the contributor right at the source and an integration with TL would be the best thing ever. We have some technical solutions, but they don't really matter right now. The thing that actually matters is getting a lot of attention from the community. If we get a lot of positive feedback from community here, we have something to show for the major content providers and sites like TL. If we can prove that this is something the community actually wants, we can start integration discussions with TL and other sites. Without the voice of the community backing us up, discussions with the top tier would probably be pointless. Note that integration with other sites is something that is possible with Flattr, hence the choice to make it the base of the platform. Please do consider this as the concept it is, and not a final product. This is just and idea we have which we put some work behind to be able to present it. It's something we do because we think it's fun and it has the potential of being really useful. Well awesome is all I can say then. I'm glad you are really thinking about this rather than going ahead without any feedback from SC2 stakeholders. Good luck, the microtransaction module is meant to be the future of money circulating the net - it's 'buzz word' status just has a tendency to make me gag on occasion... Hopefully the concept will work and SC2 will have found an answer to the money problems. I'd STRONGLY suggested you speak to Total Biscuit in that case - for the Shout Craft Invitational they operated a 'tip jar' method of spectators paying small sums to the players (and I think the organisation); this was on top of any winnings that players did (and didn't get) in the tournament proper. From what I've seen on TL Total Biscuit is very receptive to community ideas/thread (with a tendency to get banned and flame). Of course I'm in no way a spokes person for TB though I do think he deserves a hell of a lot of respect from the community, so please take my words with a dash of salt. TB if you are reading this - sorry if I have opened the floodgates to your inbox! Good luck in your future endeavors - will keep an eye out.
Thanks! We will definitely try to get in contact with TB and other members who are on a professional level community wise. We'd love to get as much feedback from every tier of the community, hight and low, but I feel TB would bless us with great insight on this specific matter.
On February 13 2012 04:59 Split. wrote:
This stands and falls with the website design. Make sure it's easy to use, accessible and userfriendly, because the idea sounds good
Correct! We will be putting a lot of thought on this matter. As we all work professionally with the web one way or another, we do know a think our two about interaction design
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Northern Ireland25018 Posts
This is actually a pretty good idea, will check developments with interest.
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On February 13 2012 00:34 Zumeh wrote:
The Web Developer is an inverted Destiny?
So Destiny is a Developer Web?
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Canada5155 Posts
Edit: Misinterpreted the intent and scope of this. Re-opened.
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Canada5155 Posts
This is a great idea, but to move it from idea to reality, you might want to start with something a bit more narrow in scope that you can implement and build upon. Good luck
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On February 14 2012 05:43 HawaiianPig wrote:
This is a great idea, but to move it from idea to reality, you might want to start with something a bit more narrow in scope that you can implement and build upon. Good luck
Thank you so much for reopening the thread and thanks for the advice, HawaiianPig!
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Why flattr? That system has no uptake and is simply not viable. Look at their cost structure:
When you add or withdraw money you only pay a fee to the payment provider you choose. This fee is displayed when you add or withdraw money (you can see it on your payment history as well). We take 10% of your incoming revenue as a fee to keep the Flattr systems afloat, hope that's ok?
http://flattr.com/support/faq
Minusing the transaction and flattr tithe, you're looking at 15% or more of the contribution going somewhere not eSports related. In comparison, Chipin is free. Why not build over chipin instead?
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This really is a fantastic idea! Being able to support your favorite player or just an "upcoming star" and at the same time directing users to solid community sites like TL.net is truly a win-win concept.
Keep up the good work. I will definitely think about ways to help you get more ideas for this project.
-Winna
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There's waaay too much fluff talk in the proposal. Give me a brief overview of what makes your idea interesting and a FAQ.
I read that whole post and cannot figure out what would be new or innovative about the idea except that it'd be an aggregation of profile information... with flattr integrated? Am I missing something?
How do you filter the good content from the shit?
What would be the pull for me as an average user to use a site like this if Reddit already filters out the good content from the shit? Why don't I just visit Reddit for interesting content?
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On February 13 2012 04:34 lastkarrde wrote:
Why NodeJS? It doesn't make sense to use an event platform for a relatively straight forward CRUD website..
Well, one of the first reasons we choose node was to make it fun to develop. To make it easier to keep the interest up!
Also, building it on top of Node.js, MongoDB and Redis will allow us to make really interesting and fun real-time stuff later on! Like pushing out new "crafts", as we call them, as they get created. Reorder the trending list in real-time (might get annoying though..) etc etc Plus it scales quite well so hosting will be pretty cheap. Building on top of a more traditional CMS like Drupal would increase server costs alot since it's more heavy weight.
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It's really cool and all, but what the hell is it actually supposed to be? You never mentioned once the actual content you'd include in your site
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On February 14 2012 18:45 gnatinator wrote:
There's waaay too much fluff talk in the proposal. Give me a brief overview of what makes your idea interesting and a FAQ.
I read that whole post and cannot figure out what would be new or innovative about the idea except that it'd be an aggregation of profile information... with flattr integrated? Am I missing something?
How do you filter the good content from the shit?
What would be the pull for me as an average user to use a site like this if Reddit already filters out the good content from the shit? Why don't I just visit Reddit for interesting content?
Hi gnatinator,
The main purpose of the site will not be to present interesting information, that we leave to Reddit and TL. We do not want to steer away visitors form these sites by any means.
What we wanna do is to create a simple support platform for the community. If you find a good piece of content, let's say a piece of fan art. Then if the creator has a profile on our site you will be able to show him you support for that specific piece of art, but also see other creations from that user in his profile.
The main focus is to give the community an easy way to support each other. The second one is to give people a good way to aggregate their stuff for their own sake and for the conusmers, as a lot of content is spread out all over TL, Reddit, Twitch, Youtube, blogs etc. Please do note that we won't host any content on our own site, we will merely be a library consisting of supportable links to other sites.
To answer your question, there will be no need to filter out the good content from the bad, as you will already have found the good content prior to visiting our site.
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On February 14 2012 19:21 Stropheum wrote:
It's really cool and all, but what the hell is it actually supposed to be? You never mentioned once the actual content you'd include in your site
Hi, I expalained the concept in the post above to gnatinator and I hope that answer will answer you question aswell?
Bottom line: the site will be a tool for the community to use to make it easier to support their favorite contributors of the community.
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It would be cool if you did your website, but also contacted teamliquid.net and added this service as part of liquipedia. The only reason I say this is because I like the idea of content provider profiles, donation buttons, and content compilations, but I know I won't ever leave teamliquid.net for anything Starcraft related. I don't know why... I just know I won't haha.
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On February 14 2012 19:36 Beef Noodles wrote:
It would be cool if you did your website, but also contacted teamliquid.net and added this service as part of liquipedia. The only reason I say this is because I like the idea of content provider profiles, donation buttons, and content compilations, but I know I won't ever leave teamliquid.net for anything Starcraft related. I don't know why... I just know I won't haha.
Yes, integration with TL would be great. Imagine being able to support and author directly after reading his guide through a button. However we are far away from being able to do that, not techonolgy wise, but project wise. We need a way more solid base before we even contact TL about something like that. Our proccess looks like this right now:
1. Collect feedback from the community
2. Analyze the feedback
3. Continue building the platform with the feedback in mind
4. Release alpha-version
5. Collect feedback on the alpha and analyze
6. Continue developing based on the feedback from the alpha
7. Release beta, get feedback ->analyze -> develop
8. Final release, get feedback ->analyze -> develop -> repeat ∞
We will contact TL and other SC-realated sites after the alpha as we need something to actually present before we continue discussions with them. We will aslo need a lot of feedback from the community. If we can show TL that this is something that the community actually wants, we figure the chances of a collaboration increases drastically.
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EPT
