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Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay. Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions. | ||
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Wrongspeedy
United States1655 Posts
On February 11 2012 16:01 tauon wrote: I strongly believe they should've changed the build time of a barracks by a random number between -5 and 5 seconds! Yes bunkers need a change. | ||
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Raambo11
United States828 Posts
On February 11 2012 15:55 ONEofUS wrote: people should use there brain and think about what they want to post here MMA won vs DRG on Shakuras without a ghost hmm terran win ratio was never under 50 % and maybe you watched some gsl it was called gom tvt ok now we have 3 terran 4 toss and 1 zerg in round of 8 we will see in some weeks what will happen and how terran is response to the nerf! MMA is by far the best TVZ player in the world, when you have an 81% TVZ winrate standard rules do not apply to you..Gonna say it again people draw the wrong conclusions from GSL without actually thinking about the results. | ||
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tomatriedes
New Zealand5356 Posts
On February 11 2012 16:25 R!! wrote: Except terran is the only race doing the reacting, terran doesn't have the potential to win because they've hidden their tech in the late game, now wonder what happens if a zerg manages to hide a tech switch to blords while the terran was expecting ultras because he scanned the cavern, I guess that's an autoloss( because marauders apparently can't shoot air!), the same goes for assuming blords, good luck using vikings vs ultras.So unless we can constantly throw scans everywhere, we need ghosts to counter every T3 unit, whilst building the 'proper' conter, any other answer simply doesn't cut it and it's not like ghosts are anywhere near exceptional at what they do. Zerg will have to react too. Once viking numbers get too high they need to switch out of BLs. Once marauder numbers are too high they need to switch out of ultras. Ghosts are not out of the game- they are still super-effective at EMPing and sniping infestors and without infestors both bls and ultras are pretty trash. | ||
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ChriseC
Germany440 Posts
On February 11 2012 16:25 R!! wrote: Except terran is the only race doing the reacting, terran doesn't have the potential to win because they've hidden their tech in the late game, now wonder what happens if a zerg manages to hide a tech switch to blords while the terran was expecting ultras because he scanned the cavern, I guess that's an autoloss( because marauders apparently can't shoot air!), the same goes for assuming blords, good luck using vikings vs ultras.So unless we can constantly throw scans everywhere, we need ghosts to counter every T3 unit, whilst building the 'proper' conter, any other answer simply doesn't cut it and it's not like ghosts are anywhere near exceptional at what they do. i think thats the main difference between korean terrans and foreign terrans and much more for the lowertier player. korean terrans are so aggressive that they are much more in "control" of the game and push it into a certain direction that its harder for zergs to go for 10broodlords and switch into 10 ultralisks immediatly after, unless they are far ahead. what i think has changed alot in tvz is the way how zergs get to their "dreamdeathball". ling/infestor/(roach) became very popular cuz it allows u to get to hive by 12-13min and even defend early pushes with great ling upgrades and EVEN have the perfect support for their broodlords/ultralisks already ready, infestors. | ||
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Xenos23
Germany20 Posts
Other than that, it is nice to see such an upgrade, since protoss doesn't have to build the Fleet Beacon without any advantages besides the Mothership :D | ||
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JL_GG
Canada249 Posts
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
On February 11 2012 15:24 ThaSlayer wrote: Massing ghosts isnt as easy as most people would think. Do watch MVP's game vs curious on daybreak this gsl. Furthermore, what other options will Terran have against T3 zergs? Die like they did before. Honestly I don't play Terran and don't even like Terran but this is too much and I don't think will make it to final cut. Unless they make it so infestor can't target air like in beta (HTF does fungal get in the sky anyway, whatever) Terrans will be utterly screwed once Zerg gets infestor/BL/Corruptor. Vikings should be able to handle it somewhat with skill, but fungal takes that option away. | ||
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kofman
Andorra698 Posts
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R!!
Brazil938 Posts
On February 11 2012 16:30 tomatriedes wrote: Zerg will have to react too. Once viking numbers get too high they need to switch out of BLs. Once marauder numbers are too high they need to switch out of ultras. Ghosts are not out of the game- they are still super-effective at EMPing and sniping infestors and without infestors both bls and ultras are pretty trash. Once either are too high and zerg switches the terran dies, especially when the switch is to ultras, since ghosts don't do anything against them.You aren't making much sense when you say that zergs will have to react, zergs don't have to do anything when they see too many marauders or too many vikings. | ||
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carloselcoco
United States2302 Posts
It's blizzard's fault that snipe is OP now. They made Ghosts cheaper in patch 1.3.3 specifically to encourage players to get them. Now they're making them useless because players got them and they turned out to be too good. Just admit your mistake and make them more expensive again instead of ruining the unit with yet another nerf. Here's what that David Kim had to say at the time: Ghost Cost changed from 150/150 to 200/100 This cost change was a strategic, high-level change. We wanted ghosts to have a place in as many of the existing unit compositions out there as possible. For example: we wanted at least a few ghosts to come into play with the standard armies we currently see in each matchup. We feel ghost EMP is a vital tool at the highest skill levels, and we didn’t like how players had to choose between ghosts or something else. Therefore, we decided to keep the total costs the same while decreasing the gas cost so that they can more easily be added to whichever army terran players are currently using. We realize having to manage so many units (including the ghost) can be difficult for many players, but at the same time we felt ghosts are only really vital at the highest skill levels because their counter-units are also micro-intensive. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/2776510 | ||
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
On February 11 2012 15:33 ddrddrddrddr wrote: Corruptor infestor are pretty good against vikings... maybe you should snipe the infestors? Easier said than done with BL sieging from 9.5+ broodlings range. What's worse is ghost can't even effectively snipe overseers anymore which they HAD to do pre patch to even get close enough to pew pew pew the BLs. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
There's an entire thread about the ghost thing, as i mentioned there 35+15 would be reasonable or 30+20 . The Px change is absolutely stupid, phoenixes outrange, outdps and outrun mutas going spire vs 2-3 stargate px is a very bad idea, certainly doable, with camping with spores queens and corruptors and getting an eco and upgd advantage than overwhelming numbers of mutas, but c'mon does this occurred so often? And anyway, even if lategame counter to mutas becomes the PX, lategame protoss already deals with mutas super easily (storm and archon and blink, not to mention mship) | ||
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Moliere
51 Posts
On February 11 2012 16:49 carloselcoco wrote: Calling ghosts useless because they aren't the catch-all anti t3 zerg unit anymore is so beyond asinine that it really hurts my brain.I saw this comment in the comments section in the StarCraft 2 site and i thought it was well worth sharing! | ||
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Shebuha
Canada1335 Posts
Snipe change = we shall see Phoenix change = ummm okay? APM change = yay We complain about what Blizzard does and doesn't do a lot, which is certainly fine to do and we gotta acknowledge that they are doing a fine job. I feel good about this patch in general! Most of the issues and gripes I have with the game are more metagamey and 'people haven't figured the game out yet and do retarded shit' than balance now, so props to Blizz for balancing quite well. Also, I really hated the change of measurement of APM and I'm glad it's back. I thought it was really stupid to suddenly change what APM was for the sake of.... nothing. | ||
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Moosy
Canada396 Posts
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MalakhWing
United States16 Posts
On February 11 2012 16:47 kofman wrote: This is ridiculous. 45 damage to 25 damage? Thats a HUGE nerf, and it makes ghosts drastically less effective. A number like 30 would have been much more reasonable. I don't think blizzard is ever going to stop nerfing terran, terran has been nerfed in every single patch since the game came out. its not neccesary either, just look at the numbers of terrans compared to the other races on ladder, terrans are already a small minority, and will become even worse represented. Pardon if I am mistaken, but I have never seen numbers stating that terran were a minority, and if they are I can only assume it is by an insignificant amount statistically. That is also disregarding that the game is being balanced for the top tier of play which the ladder doesn't actually represent race wise in this sense. Regardless it does seem like a big nerf, but other than effectively killing off all chances of the new Idra and Artosis episode of Unbalanced: The Ghost Edition, I say we just have to wait it out with their internal testing. Chances are Blizzard really just wants a cheaper alternative to use against infestors besides emp for when there isn't enough mana instead of being a counter to the tier 3 zerg units. | ||
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ToastieNL
Netherlands845 Posts
What forces Zerg to choose between Ultra/Broodlord couples with Infestors? WHy not get Adrenal Glands and drop lings all over; Tanks are immobile as shit and Ghost suck vs Ling/Roach. Talking about that; why shouldn't the Infestor be nerfed! It counter pretty much anything Terran has except for Ghost and Tanks. However, with Ghost being pathetic as they will be, just circumventing the 4 Ghost that will be around allows you to live with impunity outside of Tank lines. Why do these unwritten rules apply to Terran but Zerg gets to ignore them? srsly?! | ||
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kofman
Andorra698 Posts
On February 11 2012 16:59 MalakhWing wrote: Pardon if I am mistaken, but I have never seen numbers stating that terran were a minority, and if they are I can only assume it is by an insignificant amount statistically. That is also disregarding that the game is being balanced for the top tier of play which the ladder doesn't actually represent race wise in this sense. Regardless it does seem like a big nerf, but other than effectively killing off all chances of the new Idra and Artosis episode of Unbalanced: The Ghost Edition, I say we just have to wait it out with their internal testing. Chances are Blizzard really just wants a cheaper alternative to use against infestors besides emp for when there isn't enough mana instead of being a counter to the tier 3 zerg units. http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all This shows the race distribution. Terran has the least players from gold-masters. | ||
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carloselcoco
United States2302 Posts
On February 11 2012 16:59 MalakhWing wrote: Pardon if I am mistaken, but I have never seen numbers stating that terran were a minority, and if they are I can only assume it is by an insignificant amount statistically. That is also disregarding that the game is being balanced for the top tier of play which the ladder doesn't actually represent race wise in this sense. Regardless it does seem like a big nerf, but other than effectively killing off all chances of the new Idra and Artosis episode of Unbalanced: The Ghost Edition, I say we just have to wait it out with their internal testing. Chances are Blizzard really just wants a cheaper alternative to use against infestors besides emp for when there isn't enough mana instead of being a counter to the tier 3 zerg units. Statistically they actually are the race that is played the least now days. | ||
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
On February 11 2012 16:56 Shebuha wrote: Mules change = yay Snipe change = we shall see Phoenix change = ummm okay? APM change = yay We complain about what Blizzard does and doesn't do a lot, which is certainly fine to do and we gotta acknowledge that they are doing a fine job. I feel good about this patch in general! Most of the issues and gripes I have with the game are more metagamey and 'people haven't figured the game out yet and do retarded shit' than balance now, so props to Blizz for balancing quite well. Also, I really hated the change of measurement of APM and I'm glad it's back. I thought it was really stupid to suddenly change what APM was for the sake of.... nothing. Like the infestor projectile nerf they proposed PTR this snipe nerf won't make it me thinks. Too much and too much bitching by community. You're right blizz patches are very very good though but they also PTR for a reason and drop stuff when they feel they made a mistake. | ||
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