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UI still sub-par 2 years later. Why don't we care? - Page 64

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XXXSmOke
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
United States1333 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-22 00:27:37
February 22 2012 00:23 GMT
#1261
Watching the WC3 comparisons make me a bit sad, such a fucking amazing game. I didnt play a single other game, not one til 5 years later I finally went to WoW. Thats a fucking video game.


Anyone else remember playing more than you intended to all the time, because you wanted the next level? Especially the Old AMM. I didnt really have any other real life friends playing it either, yet I was in two very succesful clans and made tons of friends, that I stayed connected with over the 5 years. I was never alone, and I was always playing despite my 50% win ratio. I actually had a great time one year by setting a goal to get to 55% win ratio, and I loved every second of it watching my increases of percentage by .1 slowly but surely I made my goal.
Emperor? Boxer disapproves. He's building bunkers at your mom's house even as you're reading this.
Gwypaas
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden41 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-22 04:28:47
February 22 2012 04:23 GMT
#1262
Just thought of it, we should update the Wikipedia for battle.net page to contain criticism against battle.net 0.2 since right now it's just saying how awesome it is and how many "features" they added. (LOL)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle.net

Edit:
Much of it is also false.

(Bolded the false parts.)
StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty is the first game to natively support the new revamped Battle.net online interface. Battle.net allows players to engage in online play on both work and home computers without the need to transfer files by signing onto one unified account.(True but the promised transfer of campaigns, replays and saved games doesn't exist as far as I know.) The new Battle.net also allows for several online competitions to be held simultaneously which Blizzard will use to host competition leagues, each with their own level of play. The new Battle.net features a marketplace for Starcraft II which allows players to download both free and paid maps, which can be searched for online and rated by players. The new interface also includes a chat service which is similar to that of Instant Messengers which allows players to interact across different games as well as showcase their own achievements. The game also supports VoIP for players.[3][4]


This just screams written by Blizzard PR representatives.
dacimvrl
Profile Joined December 2011
Vatican City State582 Posts
February 22 2012 06:22 GMT
#1263
unfortunately, i do agree, and the /w function should definitely be there, this feels way to dumbed down..

imo, blizz should hire people who have used or helped create the original b.net to work on the new one..
Shockk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany2269 Posts
February 22 2012 11:54 GMT
#1264
On February 22 2012 13:23 Gwypaas wrote:
Just thought of it, we should update the Wikipedia for battle.net page to contain criticism against battle.net 0.2 since right now it's just saying how awesome it is and how many "features" they added. (LOL)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle.net

Edit:
Much of it is also false.

(Bolded the false parts.)
Show nested quote +
StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty is the first game to natively support the new revamped Battle.net online interface. Battle.net allows players to engage in online play on both work and home computers without the need to transfer files by signing onto one unified account.(True but the promised transfer of campaigns, replays and saved games doesn't exist as far as I know.) The new Battle.net also allows for several online competitions to be held simultaneously which Blizzard will use to host competition leagues, each with their own level of play. The new Battle.net features a marketplace for Starcraft II which allows players to download both free and paid maps, which can be searched for online and rated by players. The new interface also includes a chat service which is similar to that of Instant Messengers which allows players to interact across different games as well as showcase their own achievements. The game also supports VoIP for players.[3][4]


This just screams written by Blizzard PR representatives.


I think we have more pressing concerns than a single paragraph most likely copied from some PR text on a Wikipedia article. Feel free to attempt an edit, but remember that Wikipedia is neutral. I see someone's already vandalized the article by referring to "B.Net 0.2" ... such things just take away from or cause.
Gwypaas
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden41 Posts
February 22 2012 13:58 GMT
#1265
On February 22 2012 20:54 Shockk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 22 2012 13:23 Gwypaas wrote:
Just thought of it, we should update the Wikipedia for battle.net page to contain criticism against battle.net 0.2 since right now it's just saying how awesome it is and how many "features" they added. (LOL)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle.net

Edit:
Much of it is also false.

(Bolded the false parts.)
StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty is the first game to natively support the new revamped Battle.net online interface. Battle.net allows players to engage in online play on both work and home computers without the need to transfer files by signing onto one unified account.(True but the promised transfer of campaigns, replays and saved games doesn't exist as far as I know.) The new Battle.net also allows for several online competitions to be held simultaneously which Blizzard will use to host competition leagues, each with their own level of play. The new Battle.net features a marketplace for Starcraft II which allows players to download both free and paid maps, which can be searched for online and rated by players. The new interface also includes a chat service which is similar to that of Instant Messengers which allows players to interact across different games as well as showcase their own achievements. The game also supports VoIP for players.[3][4]


This just screams written by Blizzard PR representatives.


I think we have more pressing concerns than a single paragraph most likely copied from some PR text on a Wikipedia article. Feel free to attempt an edit, but remember that Wikipedia is neutral. I see someone's already vandalized the article by referring to "B.Net 0.2" ... such things just take away from or cause.

True, just thought of doing it. Yeah just saw that too, the point would be to legitimately edit it with references to make it stay there and even though it is neutral make Blizzard look bad based on neutral facts.
JackDT
Profile Joined January 2012
724 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-22 20:07:29
February 22 2012 20:05 GMT
#1266
Relevant reddit/starcraft comic: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/q0zcq/how_i_feel_as_a_custom_mapper/

Currently #1 on the reddit too -- people DO care about the broken custom system. As a mapmake it removes incentive to make a map. As a player you end up playing the same popular maps over and over and becoming part of the problem, even though you'd vastly prefer trying new maps .

Blizzard, just add a 'Now Playing' or 'Waiting for Players' Tab. Custom titles would be cool but even without them it would be vastly superior to the way it is now. If you don't like the same map being repeated in the list then just group them on this screen, it would still be a huge improvement.
Erik.TheRed
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1655 Posts
February 23 2012 02:20 GMT
#1267
This might have been touched on in the last 64 pages, but I was thinking--

Why are players who are ignoring me allowed to message me? Doesn't that defeat the whole point of a conversation?
"See you space cowboy"
HeavenResign
Profile Joined April 2011
United States702 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-23 02:52:47
February 23 2012 02:46 GMT
#1268
I remember all the great friends I made in BW and all the wonderful time I spent when I wasn't even playing Brood War/WC3.

I love SC2 and am not the type to constantly bash it in favor of Brood War, but these criticisms are all valid.

I do often feel very alone when playing SC2, unless I am on skype with my personal friends while playing. The chat channels do not feel at all like the "home base" I felt when being in a clan chatroom.

At this moment I don't feel much of an incentive to join a clan without (at the least) being in master's. It's not very intuitive and if we're not looking to be at least a little competitive it seems largely pointless. But there didn't need to be a point of you weren't that good at Brood War. You had that "home base", of always being there. Of having people to play with and easily group together, or go make friends with other clans on their pages. Getting so nostalgic just typing this .
Shockk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany2269 Posts
February 23 2012 09:56 GMT
#1269
Let's hope Blizzard doesn't take too close a look at what other companies seem to get away with.

I've read a couple of discussions on the Mass Effect 3 DLC controversy and it's really, really sad how people react. For those who don't know, a certain ME3 character with potentially massive story impact will only be available for Collector's Edition owners or people who buy a 10$ DLC. Totalbiscuit has made a very good video on the topic:

Warning, ME3 spoiler warning, view at own risk:

+ Show Spoiler +


And why is this sad? Because in those discussions, some people will defend the move, will even praise it, exclaim how glad they are that they have more money to shell out. This just shows that the industry can do a lot more milking before all customers are fed up.
Karawasa
Profile Joined July 2011
United States58 Posts
February 23 2012 22:18 GMT
#1270
On February 23 2012 05:05 JackDT wrote:
Blizzard, just add a 'Now Playing' or 'Waiting for Players' Tab. Custom titles would be cool but even without them it would be vastly superior to the way it is now. If you don't like the same map being repeated in the list then just group them on this screen, it would still be a huge improvement.


Exactly! Make sure it is the DEFAULT screen though.
JackDT
Profile Joined January 2012
724 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-24 21:12:15
February 24 2012 04:56 GMT
#1271
Woah TotalBiscuit got a TON of traction out of the video. 500k views! You better believe someone at Bioware is on damage control.

Has he done a video on the Battle.Net problems? He's got enough clout that it might actually get through to someone at Blizzard. I know TB is working on a custom map himself so this subject should be important to him too.

The key point is that the problem is NOT that the popular map list never changes. People repeat this all the time -- and it does suck -- but it's just a symptom.

The problem is that you can only play popular maps at all unless you spam chat channels looking for players. So everyone just sticks to the popular maps even when they'd prefer to play others. Adding a 'Waiting for Players' listing would ALSO make the popular list a lot more dynamic but the important thing is that it makes it POSSIBLE to play other maps. Fun or Not was a failed attempt to do what a simple listing could do so well.

As as mentioned, custom titles would be nice but simply having the active game list would get us 80% of the way there and might have a chance of salvaging the UMS community. As a player I want to have a chance to try maps and I'm frustrated that I end up only selecting from the popular ones -- I'd be delighted to be pick from a list of open games instead. As a mapmaker when I realized there's no way for anyone to join my game without spamming chat, I just gave up.
Shockk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany2269 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-24 09:48:47
February 24 2012 09:44 GMT
#1272
I've just read through the latest iteration of our thread on the US boards. While well within their rights and the forum rules, it's frustrating to see the mods swiftly ban people for slight offenses (as seen when the fourth thread was started several times), but let forum trollls like theFat disrupt discussions as if he were a productive member of the community.
HeavenResign
Profile Joined April 2011
United States702 Posts
February 24 2012 15:33 GMT
#1273
On February 24 2012 18:44 Shockk wrote:
I've just read through the latest iteration of our thread on the US boards. While well within their rights and the forum rules, it's frustrating to see the mods swiftly ban people for slight offenses (as seen when the fourth thread was started several times), but let forum trollls like theFat disrupt discussions as if he were a productive member of the community.


To be fair, I posted in that fourth thread and a lot of the well intentioned people were just spamming bumps. That one dude arguing is clueless (and judging from how little SC2 he plays, not in a position to make the statements he's making), but he's not just saying +1! in a post to get it bumped haha. Though maybe you're referring to things I didn't see.
Thylacine
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden882 Posts
February 24 2012 17:00 GMT
#1274
On February 25 2012 00:33 DrowSwordsman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 24 2012 18:44 Shockk wrote:
I've just read through the latest iteration of our thread on the US boards. While well within their rights and the forum rules, it's frustrating to see the mods swiftly ban people for slight offenses (as seen when the fourth thread was started several times), but let forum trollls like theFat disrupt discussions as if he were a productive member of the community.


To be fair, I posted in that fourth thread and a lot of the well intentioned people were just spamming bumps. That one dude arguing is clueless (and judging from how little SC2 he plays, not in a position to make the statements he's making), but he's not just saying +1! in a post to get it bumped haha. Though maybe you're referring to things I didn't see.


Sometimes people are to lazy to type 5-6 lines that has been repeated so many times just to bump the thread. Luckily you can't get banned on the Sc2 forums for typing stuff like ''bump'', so atleast the threads will stay active, and hopefully this one will aswell.
What you're looking at could be the end of a particularly terrifying nightmare. It isn't. It's the beginning. Introducing Mr. John Valentine, air traveler. His destination: the Twilight Zone...
mataxp
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
Chile538 Posts
February 24 2012 17:07 GMT
#1275
I just hope we're not going back to "not caring mode"

As we all know, this NEEDS to be adressed
Liquid.Hero Startale.Bomber MVP.Dongraegu
wunsun
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada622 Posts
February 24 2012 18:42 GMT
#1276
Yea. It seems like we're a sine curve, from caring, then not caring, and back to caring. T.T
CraZyWayne
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany357 Posts
February 24 2012 18:54 GMT
#1277
It's more like a damped sine going to the "no one plays this game anymore"-axis...
"tahts halo. dont worry"
Yosho
Profile Joined June 2010
585 Posts
February 24 2012 20:33 GMT
#1278
Some of these changes look incredible! I really hope blizzard puts these in.
For master league random race videos and replays go to www.youtube.com/sc2yosho
Rizell
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden237 Posts
February 24 2012 20:36 GMT
#1279
Yeah actually getting TotalBiscuit to do a video about the lacking UI of battle net might draw some attention from blizzard since this yet havent gotten us a response. He could do a simple comparison between Wc3 and Sc2 battlenet, and some of the flaws of the custom game system. Anyone here able to get in touch with him and ask?
So poor, cant' even pay attention.
Qwyn
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2779 Posts
February 24 2012 22:07 GMT
#1280
I support most if not all of the changes listed in the OP. Battle.Net, while fine for the purposes of most, has also let down a lot of players active in the Blizzard community that were hoping for SCII to be a platform allowing for an active social experience as well as a wonderful game. Several of the changes listed in the OP are necessary to create a gaming environment that will continue to thrive throuhgout the remainder of this generation, and I struggle to reason out why Blizzard is so adamant on refusing to implement them.

Moving beyond LAN (which is an issue that can be isolated, and is for the most part - dead), here are the issues that I can contribute to:

1.A regionally based, single ladder system.

+ Show Spoiler +
While I doubt that this will ever be implemented, a system similar to W3 is the only way to handle a competitive ladder. What Blizzard has currently implemented DOES work, but returning to the previous system will clear up most problems regarding Grandmaster League and league functionality. Bizzard can integrate ideas taken from the current ladder system for their next rendition, such as the MMR rating, and switch over to a giant regional ladder. There is no other way to handle competitive play that can be as efficient or authenitc. Blizzard seems to care more about their bottom line in the interest of attracting what customers they can, even though their business model dictates otherwise. But a bronze player near the bottom end of the ladder will not care about whether or not he is near GM level players or not (who with a regional ladder should ALL be pro players).

Blizzard can use their current masking devices (removing the idea of compartmentalized leagues) in order to create a sytem that makes lower tier players have a 50 percent win ratio and feel as though they are playing well, while also allowing for long term improvement. An MMR rating with certain bonuses can allow for acceleration of the laddering process until each player finds a position that lends to a 50 percent win ratio. Inactive players can be compartmentalized into a seperate ladder and returned to a position a few degrees below their previous upon reactivation in order to make up for a decay in skill level.

The change to a regional single ladder system will provide for an authentic matchmaking system that will allow a aspiring players to reach the top and let lower tier players enjoy the game in their own way.

[As an addendum] Grandmaster League should be based off of the top 200 players in the regional ladder, and should be hand "groomed" in order to prevent hackers or spammers from entering it. It needs to be a competitive environment for pros to play on the ladder, in order to test builds against a wide variety of players and have a practice system outside of team practice sessions. There is NO OTHER REASON for a GM league to exist. Currently, it exists for no other reason than to showcase the players who laddered the most during the two weeks at the beginning of a season, and there is nothing for a player to strive for after creation of the league. The system needs to be revised for it to have any meaning at all.

There needs to be an active decay on GM account ratings (similar to the 150 bonus pool system) that will send players to the inactive ladder and drop them to master league upon reactivation. Players on the doorstep of GM League should be able to enter the league during the season, (meaning, they should have more opportunities to get into the league than if a player is kicked out due to inactivity) and the league should constantly be fluctuating until the last TWO WEEKS of the season, where it can be locked to showcase the true top 200 players of the ladder (frankly it should be extended to 300, no?) The rules regarding GM league need to be STRICT, and need to favor PRO PLAYERS. That is what GM League is all about.


2. Active ladder support and involvement in the ESPORTS scene:

+ Show Spoiler +
This is another necessary step which needs to be made in order to have the best ladder system possible. Blizzard, to some degree, has already demonstrated their willinglness to involve themselves in the ESPORTS scene through their constant patching of the game based on current events, and to a lesser degree, facilitating the use of Korean made maps in the ladder.

The use of maps made by a third party are specifically what I want to emphasize - Blizzard should ONLY use maps made by a third party, and should choose three of these each season in order to have a "fresh" ladder with the current pro-level maps. Blizzard has consistently demonstrated that they are for the most part incapable of creating maps that cater towards balanced gameplay. Mapmakers are still working to determine the best size of maps for competitive play/expansion locations/etc, and improvements to these are necessary to create a more balanced game. Blizzard has shown that they are willing to make this change with 1.4.3, and should continue to do so in the future.

That's all I have to say on those subjects, as any more would rehash more of what others have already stated. I desired only to phrase my complaints in my own way.


3. What I would like to see in Patch 1.4.4:

A. Change the in-game timer to a real time minute.

+ Show Spoiler +
This needs to be done, sooner rather than later. I would rather that Blizzard not wait until HOTS to make this change, as it will require all relative timings to be adjusted (Banshee ZvT, DT, etc). It will also show correct APM values in replays, something that many players have requested be done.


B. Remove EPM readings from replays, or revise the system altogether.

+ Show Spoiler +
I am not going to go on a rant about why I think the EPM reading is so flawed, so I will summarize it in two sentences. Spamming clicks on a single location is inefficent and bad, yet registers as repeated actions with EPM. Tabbing through camera keys, production structures, and other movements are good, yet do not register at all.

That is a flaw with the reading, and I would rather it not be there . Blizzard should stick with the original APM reading alone, modified with a real time minute timer. This will give the most accurate reading.

APM is a metric that can demonstrate improvement in a player's gameplay over time. If people want to spam to artificially increase this metric, then it becomes useless in terms of improvement. LET THE SPAMMERS SPAM (sounds like a tongue twister). For a player that is actively working to increase speed and actions completed by the realtime minute, APM is a useful metric that can help one gauge his/her improvement.

APM is a useful metric, and should be kept. Unless EPM is revised heavily, it should be removed (and frankly it should be removed, because calculating purchases/rallies without tabbing/general management is useless, and if the system is useless, then it should not exist).


C. Replays with friends.
+ Show Spoiler +

Yes, this is not realistic given the timeframe, but it can and should be done, and the earlier the better. Why wait until HOTS to provide a feature that should have been implemented in the first place? Obviously to bolster the features of HOTS to pave the way to a better sell-through, but other than that there is no good reason to implement replays with friends other than technical issues.

If the issues are technical, and the current replay format needs to be changed and the size enlarged, then I am deeply disappointed and can only hope that RWF can be implemented in the future.
"Think of the hysteria following the realization that they consciously consume babies and raise the dead people from their graves" - N0
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