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UI still sub-par 2 years later. Why don't we care? - Page 31

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Klondikebar
Profile Joined October 2011
United States2227 Posts
February 06 2012 06:28 GMT
#601
As much as I HATE hmunkey for his post...and I do hate him, I think he has a point. Acti-Blizz probably doesn't have much of an interest in an esports scene. Skimming money off of tournaments if probably pocket change compared to what they could get if they turned this IP into the RTS version of COD.

Although his opinion is just patently wrong. PATENTLY WRONG HMUNKEY!!!! I spent several years bonding with my dad over games of BW. My middle aged father could figure out the BW interface. That example alone makes it brilliant.
#2throwed
hmunkey
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom1973 Posts
February 06 2012 06:30 GMT
#602
On February 06 2012 15:27 KingPwny wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 06 2012 15:16 hmunkey wrote:
On February 06 2012 15:12 Integra wrote:
On February 06 2012 14:54 hmunkey wrote:
BW and WC3 did not have good interfaces despite what you keep saying. Sorry.

And why do so many people seem to think the esports aspect of SC2 is something Activision-Blizzard actually cares about? You realize it's not very profitable for them, right? Esports is great and it's awesome that people enjoy watching SC2, but the fact is they don't make very much money off it and SC2 is still magnitudes less popular than many (most?) of their other major titles. It sucks, but it's true. What do you think the sales are? 3 million? What were the latest Call of Duty's sales? And the one before that? And keep in mind that CoD games take far less time to develop, don't require constant attention (re-balancing and the likes), and can be put on the market relatively back-to-back. And then there's WoW, where they get a monthly subscription fee on top of original sales.

TL;DR: SC2 isn't that profitable nor is it a big deal to Acti-Blizz. I'm sure they think the whole esports thing is cool, but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter than much. Stop pretending they don't know what they're doing and they're stupid for not focusing on the game.

I don't think a single claim you did in this post actually is true... how did you even achieve to do that.

Hmm, what's not true? Other than the first part of course, because that's simply my opinion.

Afaik everything else was pretty accurate unless you can show me otherwise. What are SC2's sales figures/active players? What about the same for CoD or WoW? How much does CoD cost compared to SC2 and how long does it take for a new one to come out? And does SC2 have a subscription fee to offset long-term costs?

Pretty sure I'm right buddy...


Well if you are sooo right, why do u even wanna discuss with us mere mortals? lol

I think it's an interesting topic, but people just seem to think SC2 is a huge deal to the developers and they act shocked that Blizzard is so stupid they won't devote more resources to the game. Don't get me wrong, SC2 is awesome and it's probably my favorite game, but the Blizzard it's not that big of a deal. It's part of their portfolio and helps solidify their brand, but it doesn't bring in the money.

Thx for implying that I'm immortal though. :D
Kenpachi
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States9908 Posts
February 06 2012 06:32 GMT
#603
BW had an amazing interface... I found it enjoyable to spend my time in the lobby, talking to my friends, local clan members and having bots around (this probably wont happen in SC2). Sc2 has too much of a clunky interface and chatrooms arent great. the map system sucks too. Really bad. worst part of SC2 no question
Nada's body is South Korea's greatest weapon.
hmunkey
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom1973 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-06 06:39:09
February 06 2012 06:32 GMT
#604
On February 06 2012 15:28 Klondikebar wrote:
As much as I HATE hmunkey for his post...and I do hate him, I think he has a point. Acti-Blizz probably doesn't have much of an interest in an esports scene. Skimming money off of tournaments if probably pocket change compared to what they could get if they turned this IP into the RTS version of COD.

Although his opinion is just patently wrong. PATENTLY WRONG HMUNKEY!!!! I spent several years bonding with my dad over games of BW. My middle aged father could figure out the BW interface. That example alone makes it brilliant.

Hehe, it's endearing yeah, but it wasn't really that great. SC2 has a pretty terrible interface too, but it's not like BW was amazing by any stretch. An ideal interface would incorporate every feature of BW and SC2, do it in a responsive manner ,and cater to both casuals and hardcore gamers. There should be a way to navigate through a mess of menus and options to set up and find whatever game you want, but there should also be a way to just see what other people are playing and join in one click.

This reminds me of that thing where people remember the past as better than it actually was. Perfect example: I loved this N64 game called Donkey Kong 64. After I played it again this weekend for the first time in a decade, I realized how terrible it was.
Klondikebar
Profile Joined October 2011
United States2227 Posts
February 06 2012 06:41 GMT
#605
You're forgetting WC3. There was WC3 in between BW and SC2. BW was amazing, but I'll grant that the interface had flaws (although again, the fact that my middle aged father could navigate it speaks VOLUMES about its virtues). But then this game called WC3 came along. It was amazing. I actually spun my disk in the drive so much that it broke and Blizzard had a deal where you could get a new disk for $5 if you had a registered key cause apparently it happened so often.

Something tells me you're confusing good design with pixel count.
#2throwed
hmunkey
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom1973 Posts
February 06 2012 06:58 GMT
#606
On February 06 2012 15:41 Klondikebar wrote:
You're forgetting WC3. There was WC3 in between BW and SC2. BW was amazing, but I'll grant that the interface had flaws (although again, the fact that my middle aged father could navigate it speaks VOLUMES about its virtues). But then this game called WC3 came along. It was amazing. I actually spun my disk in the drive so much that it broke and Blizzard had a deal where you could get a new disk for $5 if you had a registered key cause apparently it happened so often.

Something tells me you're confusing good design with pixel count.

I guess there's a difference in what you and I consider to be "good" design. Personally, I prefer simplicity with hidden robustness. What I mean is, I like when UIs don't show everything possible, but when they show the minimum an average player needs and keep everything else "under the hood." If someone wants to enable something, they can, but the menus shouldn't be cluttered with a mess of options or game modes. I personally like the custom games popularity menu, so long as there is an alternative way to search for any game you want.

And as far as the in-game UI goes, everything should be toggle-able. I don't want unnecessary distractions if I don't need them to play, so I'd prefer to turn them off. If the border of the zerg bar covers up part of the game screen, I want to disable it.

But most of all, the UI needs to be responsive. The current Bnet 2.0 UI is laggy -- if I click something it can take a few seconds for that click to even register and make a sound, at which point I'm stuck with a blue spinning loading icon while I wait. This is especially annoying when I'm looking at profiles.
Klondikebar
Profile Joined October 2011
United States2227 Posts
February 06 2012 07:06 GMT
#607
What I gathered from your post is that you're a console gamer...

And yes, the current Bnet UI does seem to have an almost built in lag. It's one of the MANY obnoxious things about this UI.
#2throwed
Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9175 Posts
February 06 2012 07:06 GMT
#608
Complain if half these features aren't implemented in heart of the swarm, until then this is still vanilla. They need to pace the features or they'll have expansions with extra units and more single player and nothing else.
Yhamm is the god of predictions
SoniC_eu
Profile Joined April 2011
Denmark1008 Posts
February 06 2012 07:08 GMT
#609
I think we all understand the concept that blizz wants to make money? That's not being questioned..At all! What is being questioned is the WAY they are treating sc2. It's logical to some ppl that blizz dont wanna use time on the game (other than making it pirate free) cos it doesnt bring in big ,fast profits. Minimise time making games and sell big titles that look great and kinda function OK. "Yep it's all about the money" as munkey points out.

But that doesn't mean I as a consumer agree or like what they are doing? Sc2 is like a flagship for blizz. Apart from Sc2 selling 4.5 million copies since Dec 2010, it might not that profitable (compared to COD series which has sold 55m copies so far), but much of their reputation rides on it. SC:BW creates so much fan following and customer loyalty, that Sc2 becomes the new flagship. Much like Diablo3 will because of D2's amazing success. Sc2 and D3 aren't that big moneymakers compared to the run of the mill COD series. But Sc2 and D3 & WC (I am hoping D3 is good ofc hehe) brings up the whole rep of blizz. If you compare it to the auto industry, SC2 is like the top end range model - you don't sell many units of that range, but it brings up the prestige and sparks interest in the brand. (I.e Not many units will be sold, but the units you do sell will bring "up" the rest of the brand.)

Now this will not matter to the masses (or that 16 yr old kid who just wants to shoot shit), but it will matter to the ones who are big fans of the series. (Say maybe 10-15% of the ppl who actually buy blizz-activision games? That's just my speculation though, the percentage could be higher). Nerds like us who really care about the game and not just "shooting stuff" and look beyond dollars and cents. The loyal customer base segment who helps promote Esports and Blizz through media and exposure, creating forums and communities that gives life to much larger things (and why we are having this discussion in the first place).

The point is some companies do things because they want the best possible game. And that business model makes sense to me and where I feel that blizzard can learn something in the long run. Their hands might be tied by Vivendi, (who owns them, Activision is their partner, and I'm not to happy about the merger but I won't write about that here) but what made blizz great & sell in the first place, was caring about customers. And although that might not be Vivendi's goals, if they don't realise this soon their, flagships could go down in 1-2 series, in the future. Blizz don't make "COD-like series", they make high end stuff. The sooner they realise this, the better.
In order to succeed, your desire for success should be greater than your fear of failure. http://da.twitch.tv/sonic_eu
hmunkey
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom1973 Posts
February 06 2012 07:10 GMT
#610
On February 06 2012 16:06 Klondikebar wrote:
What I gathered from your post is that you're a console gamer...

And yes, the current Bnet UI does seem to have an almost built in lag. It's one of the MANY obnoxious things about this UI.

Nope, I don't play any console games. I just like simplicity and the ability to add/remove features as I see fit. It's the same idea large software like AutoCAD, MATLAB, and Photoshop use -- you can do pretty much anything with them, but it's not all in your face and you can remove things you don't want.
Shockk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany2269 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-06 07:16:17
February 06 2012 07:14 GMT
#611
On February 06 2012 15:58 hmunkey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 06 2012 15:41 Klondikebar wrote:
You're forgetting WC3. There was WC3 in between BW and SC2. BW was amazing, but I'll grant that the interface had flaws (although again, the fact that my middle aged father could navigate it speaks VOLUMES about its virtues). But then this game called WC3 came along. It was amazing. I actually spun my disk in the drive so much that it broke and Blizzard had a deal where you could get a new disk for $5 if you had a registered key cause apparently it happened so often.

Something tells me you're confusing good design with pixel count.

I guess there's a difference in what you and I consider to be "good" design. Personally, I prefer simplicity with hidden robustness. What I mean is, I like when UIs don't show everything possible, but when they show the minimum an average player needs and keep everything else "under the hood." If someone wants to enable something, they can, but the menus shouldn't be cluttered with a mess of options or game modes. I personally like the custom games popularity menu, so long as there is an alternative way to search for any game you want.

And as far as the in-game UI goes, everything should be toggle-able. I don't want unnecessary distractions if I don't need them to play, so I'd prefer to turn them off. If the border of the zerg bar covers up part of the game screen, I want to disable it.

But most of all, the UI needs to be responsive. The current Bnet 2.0 UI is laggy -- if I click something it can take a few seconds for that click to even register and make a sound, at which point I'm stuck with a blue spinning loading icon while I wait. This is especially annoying when I'm looking at profiles.


Could you elaborate on why you think SC/BW's and WC3's UIs were lacking? Genuinely curious, since both iterations of Battle.Net were praised at their respective release, being leaps and bounds beyond anything the competition or previous Blizzard titles had to offer. And I think they fit your concept of "simplicity and robustness" quite nicely, with quick game access being available at any time and detailed configuration / communication there for anyone who takes the time to mess with it. Considering their success, a statement like "BW and WC3 did not have good interfaces despite what you keep saying" is bold to say the least; but it's your opinion, and I'd like to hear a more detailed reply as to why you think so.

As for the financial part of things, with SC2 not being overly profitable - nothing to add there. Blizzard could rake in more by appeasing their userbase, but they don't have to - so they won't. Diablo 3, microtransactions and project Titan are where it's going, StarCraft is just a franchise for some additional revenue, but profits lie elsewhere, and so does the attention.
lazy-jay
Profile Joined June 2011
10 Posts
February 06 2012 07:39 GMT
#612
shared replay watching needed!!!
statistics needed!!!
NightOfTheDead
Profile Joined August 2009
Lithuania1711 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-06 09:13:39
February 06 2012 09:13 GMT
#613
On February 06 2012 09:52 NachiMe wrote:
Something's been bugging me for a while. I'm at the blizzard ui atm, and it says there's 9780 sc2 games worldwide? Is this true?? O_O seems like a really small number to me


Not pour salt on wound, but in the days of WC3 prosperity there much much more games played. I think 30k-40k of melee games PER REGION at the LEAST.
Even though the gameplay and balance is supported like no other game, custom games took a huge hit. It was kinda the thing that that kept playerbase at the dawn of Wc3. Sure we have the scene now, but imagine it would have been really alot bigger with right features. Oh well, Blizz went overboard with their attempts to put all the resources into älways online feature, to keep the game at low latency.
Naphal
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany2099 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-06 09:25:17
February 06 2012 09:25 GMT
#614
I can only agree!

i had almost forgotten about the automated tournaments, that could even complement their leaguesystem, offering the winner promotion or whatnot.
bgx
Profile Joined August 2010
Poland6595 Posts
February 06 2012 09:42 GMT
#615
Hmm im hoping that D3 release will make some improvements for Bnet 0.2 Frankly D3 without "socialized" B.net will suck ass to put it bluntly. What made Sc1, D2, WC3 awesome was that their respective Bnets(gameplay first of course). The first link of User - Product in case of multiplayer games is UI, the game itself may be superb but bad UI will make it lose casual players sooner or later, mostly after they finish / quit campaign and log in battle net lose 5 games and drop the game.
Stork[gm]
CutieBK
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Sweden227 Posts
February 06 2012 09:49 GMT
#616
Yeah, I agree on everything here. It's crazy how these things haven't been adressed, especially with the rapid growth of e-sports at the moment. Here's hoping it is released in HotS!
Kommissar
Profile Joined March 2011
Australia48 Posts
February 06 2012 09:55 GMT
#617
I was a keen WC3 player for years and I couldn't agree more. Clan support and tournament support especially would make this game so much better...
Adding shared replay viewing and fixing custom games would make this the game I hoped I would be getting when I bought SC2, a new, better alternative to wc3, with an even bigger custom scene.
www.youtube.com/user/c0mmissar1
woozie
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden53 Posts
February 06 2012 10:04 GMT
#618
I wonder what Blizzard's Battle.Net team has been doing all this time? As I understand they have a team of people working on Battle.Net full time. They should be able to add these improvements in a matter of weeks or months, but we're still waiting for changes that should have taken place before SC2 was released ...
800800
Profile Joined October 2011
Afghanistan64 Posts
February 06 2012 10:41 GMT
#619
War3 Battle.net + SC2 laddering system = perfect.
Riquiz
Profile Joined June 2011
Netherlands402 Posts
February 06 2012 11:13 GMT
#620
I have never played wc3 or sc:bw, but I am certainly aware of older UI's like in ra2 etc.

The current battle.net is truly awefull and I hope that It'll get patched up a bit, to make it bearable.
Caster man does casting on yt/RiquizCasts
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