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On January 18 2012 06:25 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 05:58 Mohdoo wrote:On January 18 2012 05:56 TheToast wrote:On January 18 2012 05:48 koning wrote:On January 18 2012 05:40 TheToast wrote:On January 18 2012 05:38 svi wrote:
moon was a god in warcraft 3.
i just don't know if he'll show the same dedication he did since he's married now.
he used to have a legendary work ethic (i remember a chinese player saying that when he went to sleep moon was practicing, and when he woke up, moon was still practicing) and if he still has that same drive, then he'll do really well. He was no Grubby. Still excited to see Moon join Fnatic, but since he was a Night Elf player I will have to root against him in every game. wait what? I'm the biggest Grubby fanboy but what you just said is plain silly WCG 2008 buddy. Grubby took down Moon 2-1. Actually did Moon ever win a WCG?? I don't think so. Grubby > Moon in WC3. Easy. I don't think there are many people in this world who would consider a single BO3 as an indicator of superiority. Please just admit that you didn't very actively follow the WC3 scene. You're arguing against adapeople who are significantly more knowledgeable on the matter. You'll notice you're pretty alone in your assessment, as Moon still has a very favorable record against Grubby, as well as being more dominant overall than Grubby ever was. While Moon was sometimes ranked a bit higher than Grubby they were always very close (Gosu Gamers 2008 ranking has them within 30 points). Now add in the fact that Grubby has by far far far more tournament wins I think the answer is clear. Grubby won Blizzcon 2005, won WCG 2004, won WCG 2008 (in which he BEAT MOON), second in WCG 2010, won WEM 2009. How many Blizzcons did Moon win? How many WCGs did Moon win? Oh yeah that's right NONE. Zip. I don't care if you think Moon was better, but don't act like there's no way in the world that one could consider Grubby a better player. Guy made orc look OP. And ranking don't mean shit if you can't win tournaments. Was Moon good? Hell yes, he was fucking amazing. But Grubby was better IMO. 2011 1st IEF Korea ($10,000)
2010 1st NGL-One ($8,000)
2009 2nd Extreme Masters 4 ChengDu ($2,500)
2009 1st World Cyber Games Korea National Final ($1,600)
2009 4th E-Stars Seoul 2009 King of the Game ($800)
2009 3rd Norton Anti-Virus GOMTV World Invitational ($800)
2009 4th IEM3 Chengdu ($1,000 USD)
2008 1st IEF ($11,600 USD)
2008 4th ESL Continental Final Asia ($1,000 USD)
2008 2nd IeSF Invitational ($4,000 USD)
2008 2nd World Cyber Games (Germany) ($7,000 USD)
2008 3rd NicegameTV War3 League Season1 (Korea) (￦2,000,000 := 1379USD)
2008 1st ESWC Masters of Paris ($2,500 USD)
2008 1st Blizzard Worldwide Invitational 2008 (Paris) $11000 USD
2008 2nd PGL 2008 Warcraft III League Season3 Final (China) (40,000RMB := $5,794USD)
2008 4th NSL 2008 Warcraft III League Season2
2008 1st PGL 2007 Warcraft III League Season2 Final (China) (80,000RMB := $11,000USD)
2008 1st CEG 2007 shaoxing (China) ($2,000 EUR)
2007 3rd IEF MASTERS 2007 (China) ($2,000 USD)
2007 2nd Afreeca Warcraft League 2007 (South Korea) (￦3,000,000 := $3,000 USD)
2007 2nd Make Games Colorful 2007 (China) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st Lenovo IEST 2007 (China) ($21,394 USD)
2007 3rd World Cyber Games 2007 (USA) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st GGL Digital Life New York (USA) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st China E-Sport Games Xi'an (China) ($2,600 USD)
2007 1st GGL Digital Life Chengdu (China) ($10,600 USD)
2007 2nd WEG e-Star Seoul (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War Grand Prix (South Korea) ($20,000 USD)
2007 2nd Pro Gaming League (China) ($4,000 USD)
2007 1st Dreamhack Summer 2007 (Sweden) ($2,850 USD)
2007 1st Battle.net Ladder Season V Asia (South Korea) ($1,000 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War III (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2007 1st World Series of Video Games China (China) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st NSL (China) ($2,500 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War II (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2007 1st Game-X (Russia) ($38,120 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War I (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2006 1st MBCGame World War III (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2006 1st MBCGame World War II (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2006 1st Lenovo IEST 2006 (China) ($20,000 USD)
2006 1st Superfight 2 (South Korea) ($8,500 USD)
2006 1st Digital Life Gaming Tournament 2006 (USA) ($5,000 USD)
2006 4th World E-Sport Games Masters (China) ($1,000 USD)
2005 1st World E-Sports Festival (China)
2005 1st International E-Sports Festival (China)
2005 1st China Korea Cyber Games (China) ($10,000 USD)
2005 1st World E-Sports Games Season I (South Korea) ($20,000 USD)
2005 1st World E-Sports Games Season II (South Korea) ($20,000 USD)
2005 1st MBCGame Warcraft League Season I (South Korea)
2005 2nd OnGameNet War3 TFT Invitational (South Korea)
2005 1st MBCGame Prime League V (South Korea)
2004 9th World Cyber Games (USA)
2004 3rd World Cyber Games, Korea (South Korea)
2003 2nd MBCGame Prime League III (South Korea)
2003 1st MBCGame Prime League II (South Korea)
Just fyi.
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On January 18 2012 06:16 svi wrote:
top 10 all time in wc3 is almost indisputably:
1. Moon 2. Grubby 3. Sky 4. Lyn 5. Creo 6. ToD 7. ReMinD 8. Infi 9. Zacard 10. FoV
FLY100% and Sweet are definately top 6 before Creo and ToD.
anyway great pickup by fnatic hope to see more of moon in sc2.
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On January 18 2012 06:32 Fleshcut wrote:
Haven't heard anything of him since that Dreamhack loss against HuK. But I'm glad he will be back since he is one of the greatest esports names and an idol for many years :3
he got 2nd at a chinese event (knocing out both MC and Nada) he also got 2nd at IPL 4 Pacific Qualifiers (ahead of players like Sen, Sase, Naniwa, Check etc.) some months ago
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On January 18 2012 06:25 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 05:58 Mohdoo wrote:On January 18 2012 05:56 TheToast wrote:On January 18 2012 05:48 koning wrote:On January 18 2012 05:40 TheToast wrote:On January 18 2012 05:38 svi wrote:
moon was a god in warcraft 3.
i just don't know if he'll show the same dedication he did since he's married now.
he used to have a legendary work ethic (i remember a chinese player saying that when he went to sleep moon was practicing, and when he woke up, moon was still practicing) and if he still has that same drive, then he'll do really well. He was no Grubby. Still excited to see Moon join Fnatic, but since he was a Night Elf player I will have to root against him in every game. wait what? I'm the biggest Grubby fanboy but what you just said is plain silly WCG 2008 buddy. Grubby took down Moon 2-1. Actually did Moon ever win a WCG?? I don't think so. Grubby > Moon in WC3. Easy. I don't think there are many people in this world who would consider a single BO3 as an indicator of superiority. Please just admit that you didn't very actively follow the WC3 scene. You're arguing against adapeople who are significantly more knowledgeable on the matter. You'll notice you're pretty alone in your assessment, as Moon still has a very favorable record against Grubby, as well as being more dominant overall than Grubby ever was. While Moon was sometimes ranked a bit higher than Grubby they were always very close (Gosu Gamers 2008 ranking has them within 30 points). Now add in the fact that Grubby has by far far far more tournament wins I think the answer is clear. Grubby won Blizzcon 2005, won WCG 2004, won WCG 2008 (in which he BEAT MOON), second in WCG 2010, won WEM 2009. How many Blizzcons did Moon win?? How many WCGs did Moon win?? Oh yeah that's right NONE. Zip. I don't care if you think Moon was better, but don't act like there's no way in the world that one could consider Grubby a better player. Buy made orc look OP. And ranking don't mean shit if you can't win tournaments. Was Moon good? Hell yes, he was fucking amazing. But Grubby was better IMO.
While Grubby won more tournaments, Moon won more of their H2Hs, Moon was more innovative, and Moon won more money straight-down, and he was relevant to the scene for longer (he came in before Grubby did and stayed in for longer than Grubby did). Not to mention, there was a time when winning WCG Korea was way harder than winning WCG, and don't pretend that Grubby had a hard time through his country's qualifiers. They were a joke.
They were both amazing as all get-out. Whether or not you rank one higher than the other has to do with fanboy bias and how you decide to weigh the factors. (I know it sounds like I'm a huge Moon fanboy, but I am also a huge Grubby fanboy, and I personally consider them roughly equal in terms of War3 success, so don't start screaming bias at me too.) Both Grubby and Moon were awesome. Saying, "I don't care if you think Moon was better ..." and then following it up with, "But Grubby was better IMO," is asking for trouble and you know it.
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On January 18 2012 06:33 fleeze wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 06:16 svi wrote:
top 10 all time in wc3 is almost indisputably:
1. Moon 2. Grubby 3. Sky 4. Lyn 5. Creo 6. ToD 7. ReMinD 8. Infi 9. Zacard 10. FoV
FLY100% and Sweet are definately top 6 before Creo and ToD. anyway great pickup by fnatic hope to see more of moon in sc2.
All a question of what you want to show with your ranking... if it's about achievements, then Creo isn't top 10... if it's about raw skill, then probably.
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MOON YES! I will cheer wholeheartedly for fnatic now. And gonna order T-shirt!
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On January 18 2012 06:36 HolydaKing wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 06:33 fleeze wrote:On January 18 2012 06:16 svi wrote:
top 10 all time in wc3 is almost indisputably:
1. Moon 2. Grubby 3. Sky 4. Lyn 5. Creo 6. ToD 7. ReMinD 8. Infi 9. Zacard 10. FoV
FLY100% and Sweet are definately top 6 before Creo and ToD. anyway great pickup by fnatic hope to see more of moon in sc2. All a question of what you want to show with your ranking... if it's about achievements, then Creo isn't top 10... if it's about raw skill, then probably.
yes, i agree. but those two are top 6 for sure and were missing.
Sweet was the best UD in WC3 by far results and skill wise.
FLY was moon and grubbys arch enemy. they lost many games against him.
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On January 18 2012 06:33 Zalitara wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 06:25 TheToast wrote:On January 18 2012 05:58 Mohdoo wrote:On January 18 2012 05:56 TheToast wrote:On January 18 2012 05:48 koning wrote:On January 18 2012 05:40 TheToast wrote:On January 18 2012 05:38 svi wrote:
moon was a god in warcraft 3.
i just don't know if he'll show the same dedication he did since he's married now.
he used to have a legendary work ethic (i remember a chinese player saying that when he went to sleep moon was practicing, and when he woke up, moon was still practicing) and if he still has that same drive, then he'll do really well. He was no Grubby. Still excited to see Moon join Fnatic, but since he was a Night Elf player I will have to root against him in every game. wait what? I'm the biggest Grubby fanboy but what you just said is plain silly WCG 2008 buddy. Grubby took down Moon 2-1. Actually did Moon ever win a WCG?? I don't think so. Grubby > Moon in WC3. Easy. I don't think there are many people in this world who would consider a single BO3 as an indicator of superiority. Please just admit that you didn't very actively follow the WC3 scene. You're arguing against adapeople who are significantly more knowledgeable on the matter. You'll notice you're pretty alone in your assessment, as Moon still has a very favorable record against Grubby, as well as being more dominant overall than Grubby ever was. While Moon was sometimes ranked a bit higher than Grubby they were always very close (Gosu Gamers 2008 ranking has them within 30 points). Now add in the fact that Grubby has by far far far more tournament wins I think the answer is clear. Grubby won Blizzcon 2005, won WCG 2004, won WCG 2008 (in which he BEAT MOON), second in WCG 2010, won WEM 2009. How many Blizzcons did Moon win? How many WCGs did Moon win? Oh yeah that's right NONE. Zip. I don't care if you think Moon was better, but don't act like there's no way in the world that one could consider Grubby a better player. Guy made orc look OP. And ranking don't mean shit if you can't win tournaments. Was Moon good? Hell yes, he was fucking amazing. But Grubby was better IMO. 2011 1st IEF Korea ($10,000) + Show Spoiler +
2010 1st NGL-One ($8,000)
2009 2nd Extreme Masters 4 ChengDu ($2,500)
2009 1st World Cyber Games Korea National Final ($1,600)
2009 4th E-Stars Seoul 2009 King of the Game ($800)
2009 3rd Norton Anti-Virus GOMTV World Invitational ($800)
2009 4th IEM3 Chengdu ($1,000 USD)
2008 1st IEF ($11,600 USD)
2008 4th ESL Continental Final Asia ($1,000 USD)
2008 2nd IeSF Invitational ($4,000 USD)
2008 2nd World Cyber Games (Germany) ($7,000 USD)
2008 3rd NicegameTV War3 League Season1 (Korea) (￦2,000,000 := 1379USD)
2008 1st ESWC Masters of Paris ($2,500 USD)
2008 1st Blizzard Worldwide Invitational 2008 (Paris) $11000 USD
2008 2nd PGL 2008 Warcraft III League Season3 Final (China) (40,000RMB := $5,794USD)
2008 4th NSL 2008 Warcraft III League Season2
2008 1st PGL 2007 Warcraft III League Season2 Final (China) (80,000RMB := $11,000USD)
2008 1st CEG 2007 shaoxing (China) ($2,000 EUR)
2007 3rd IEF MASTERS 2007 (China) ($2,000 USD)
2007 2nd Afreeca Warcraft League 2007 (South Korea) (￦3,000,000 := $3,000 USD)
2007 2nd Make Games Colorful 2007 (China) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st Lenovo IEST 2007 (China) ($21,394 USD)
2007 3rd World Cyber Games 2007 (USA) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st GGL Digital Life New York (USA) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st China E-Sport Games Xi'an (China) ($2,600 USD)
2007 1st GGL Digital Life Chengdu (China) ($10,600 USD)
2007 2nd WEG e-Star Seoul (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War Grand Prix (South Korea) ($20,000 USD)
2007 2nd Pro Gaming League (China) ($4,000 USD)
2007 1st Dreamhack Summer 2007 (Sweden) ($2,850 USD)
2007 1st Battle.net Ladder Season V Asia (South Korea) ($1,000 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War III (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2007 1st World Series of Video Games China (China) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st NSL (China) ($2,500 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War II (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2007 1st Game-X (Russia) ($38,120 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War I (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2006 1st MBCGame World War III (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2006 1st MBCGame World War II (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2006 1st Lenovo IEST 2006 (China) ($20,000 USD)
2006 1st Superfight 2 (South Korea) ($8,500 USD)
2006 1st Digital Life Gaming Tournament 2006 (USA) ($5,000 USD)
2006 4th World E-Sport Games Masters (China) ($1,000 USD)
2005 1st World E-Sports Festival (China)
2005 1st International E-Sports Festival (China)
2005 1st China Korea Cyber Games (China) ($10,000 USD)
2005 1st World E-Sports Games Season I (South Korea) ($20,000 USD)
2005 1st World E-Sports Games Season II (South Korea) ($20,000 USD)
2005 1st MBCGame Warcraft League Season I (South Korea)
2005 2nd OnGameNet War3 TFT Invitational (South Korea)
2005 1st MBCGame Prime League V (South Korea)
2004 9th World Cyber Games (USA)
2004 3rd World Cyber Games, Korea (South Korea)
2003 2nd MBCGame Prime League III (South Korea)
2003 1st MBCGame Prime League II (South Korea)
Just fyi.
Just FYI I already checked before I posted that, Grubby's list is definetly bigger (if you really want to play that game) as well as more impressive in terms of major tournament wins:
http://www.gosugamers.net/warcraft/rankings/382
I highly doubt we are going to resolve the Grubber versus Moon debate here (it's been going on much longer and will continue to go on). I honestly really don't care who you think it better, just absurd you telling me that I don't know what I'm talking about for saying Grubby is the better player. Clearly there is some grounds to that argument, even if you don't agree.
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On January 18 2012 06:40 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 06:33 Zalitara wrote:On January 18 2012 06:25 TheToast wrote:On January 18 2012 05:58 Mohdoo wrote:On January 18 2012 05:56 TheToast wrote:On January 18 2012 05:48 koning wrote:On January 18 2012 05:40 TheToast wrote:On January 18 2012 05:38 svi wrote:
moon was a god in warcraft 3.
i just don't know if he'll show the same dedication he did since he's married now.
he used to have a legendary work ethic (i remember a chinese player saying that when he went to sleep moon was practicing, and when he woke up, moon was still practicing) and if he still has that same drive, then he'll do really well. He was no Grubby. Still excited to see Moon join Fnatic, but since he was a Night Elf player I will have to root against him in every game. wait what? I'm the biggest Grubby fanboy but what you just said is plain silly WCG 2008 buddy. Grubby took down Moon 2-1. Actually did Moon ever win a WCG?? I don't think so. Grubby > Moon in WC3. Easy. I don't think there are many people in this world who would consider a single BO3 as an indicator of superiority. Please just admit that you didn't very actively follow the WC3 scene. You're arguing against adapeople who are significantly more knowledgeable on the matter. You'll notice you're pretty alone in your assessment, as Moon still has a very favorable record against Grubby, as well as being more dominant overall than Grubby ever was. While Moon was sometimes ranked a bit higher than Grubby they were always very close (Gosu Gamers 2008 ranking has them within 30 points). Now add in the fact that Grubby has by far far far more tournament wins I think the answer is clear. Grubby won Blizzcon 2005, won WCG 2004, won WCG 2008 (in which he BEAT MOON), second in WCG 2010, won WEM 2009. How many Blizzcons did Moon win? How many WCGs did Moon win? Oh yeah that's right NONE. Zip. I don't care if you think Moon was better, but don't act like there's no way in the world that one could consider Grubby a better player. Guy made orc look OP. And ranking don't mean shit if you can't win tournaments. Was Moon good? Hell yes, he was fucking amazing. But Grubby was better IMO. 2011 1st IEF Korea ($10,000) + Show Spoiler +
2010 1st NGL-One ($8,000)
2009 2nd Extreme Masters 4 ChengDu ($2,500)
2009 1st World Cyber Games Korea National Final ($1,600)
2009 4th E-Stars Seoul 2009 King of the Game ($800)
2009 3rd Norton Anti-Virus GOMTV World Invitational ($800)
2009 4th IEM3 Chengdu ($1,000 USD)
2008 1st IEF ($11,600 USD)
2008 4th ESL Continental Final Asia ($1,000 USD)
2008 2nd IeSF Invitational ($4,000 USD)
2008 2nd World Cyber Games (Germany) ($7,000 USD)
2008 3rd NicegameTV War3 League Season1 (Korea) (￦2,000,000 := 1379USD)
2008 1st ESWC Masters of Paris ($2,500 USD)
2008 1st Blizzard Worldwide Invitational 2008 (Paris) $11000 USD
2008 2nd PGL 2008 Warcraft III League Season3 Final (China) (40,000RMB := $5,794USD)
2008 4th NSL 2008 Warcraft III League Season2
2008 1st PGL 2007 Warcraft III League Season2 Final (China) (80,000RMB := $11,000USD)
2008 1st CEG 2007 shaoxing (China) ($2,000 EUR)
2007 3rd IEF MASTERS 2007 (China) ($2,000 USD)
2007 2nd Afreeca Warcraft League 2007 (South Korea) (￦3,000,000 := $3,000 USD)
2007 2nd Make Games Colorful 2007 (China) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st Lenovo IEST 2007 (China) ($21,394 USD)
2007 3rd World Cyber Games 2007 (USA) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st GGL Digital Life New York (USA) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st China E-Sport Games Xi'an (China) ($2,600 USD)
2007 1st GGL Digital Life Chengdu (China) ($10,600 USD)
2007 2nd WEG e-Star Seoul (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War Grand Prix (South Korea) ($20,000 USD)
2007 2nd Pro Gaming League (China) ($4,000 USD)
2007 1st Dreamhack Summer 2007 (Sweden) ($2,850 USD)
2007 1st Battle.net Ladder Season V Asia (South Korea) ($1,000 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War III (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2007 1st World Series of Video Games China (China) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st NSL (China) ($2,500 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War II (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2007 1st Game-X (Russia) ($38,120 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War I (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2006 1st MBCGame World War III (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2006 1st MBCGame World War II (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2006 1st Lenovo IEST 2006 (China) ($20,000 USD)
2006 1st Superfight 2 (South Korea) ($8,500 USD)
2006 1st Digital Life Gaming Tournament 2006 (USA) ($5,000 USD)
2006 4th World E-Sport Games Masters (China) ($1,000 USD)
2005 1st World E-Sports Festival (China)
2005 1st International E-Sports Festival (China)
2005 1st China Korea Cyber Games (China) ($10,000 USD)
2005 1st World E-Sports Games Season I (South Korea) ($20,000 USD)
2005 1st World E-Sports Games Season II (South Korea) ($20,000 USD)
2005 1st MBCGame Warcraft League Season I (South Korea)
2005 2nd OnGameNet War3 TFT Invitational (South Korea)
2005 1st MBCGame Prime League V (South Korea)
2004 9th World Cyber Games (USA)
2004 3rd World Cyber Games, Korea (South Korea)
2003 2nd MBCGame Prime League III (South Korea)
2003 1st MBCGame Prime League II (South Korea)
Just fyi. Just FYI I already checked before I posted that, Grubby's list is definetly bigger (if you really want to play that game) as well as more impressive in terms of major tournament wins: http://www.gosugamers.net/warcraft/rankings/382I highly doubt we are going to resolve the Grubber versus Moon debate here (it's been going on much longer and will continue to go on). I honestly really don't care who you think it better, just absurd you telling me that I don't know what I'm talking about for saying Grubby is the better player. Clearly there is some grounds to that argument, even if you don't agree.
no, it is not. i like grubby but compared to the 5th race he does not have the results and besides WCG he beat him very rarely.
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Congrats to Moon and Fnatic. Intrigued to see what Moon can accomplish when 100% focused on SC2. :D
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Perhaps all this talk will stir up an upcoming showmatch between Grubby vs Moon in WC3
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On January 18 2012 06:43 trinxified wrote:
Perhaps all this talk will stir up an upcoming showmatch between Grubby vs Moon in WC3
I guess Moon would raped him as he did in NASL. Although I like Grubby very much too
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On January 18 2012 06:40 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 06:33 Zalitara wrote:On January 18 2012 06:25 TheToast wrote:On January 18 2012 05:58 Mohdoo wrote:On January 18 2012 05:56 TheToast wrote:On January 18 2012 05:48 koning wrote:On January 18 2012 05:40 TheToast wrote:On January 18 2012 05:38 svi wrote:
moon was a god in warcraft 3.
i just don't know if he'll show the same dedication he did since he's married now.
he used to have a legendary work ethic (i remember a chinese player saying that when he went to sleep moon was practicing, and when he woke up, moon was still practicing) and if he still has that same drive, then he'll do really well. He was no Grubby. Still excited to see Moon join Fnatic, but since he was a Night Elf player I will have to root against him in every game. wait what? I'm the biggest Grubby fanboy but what you just said is plain silly WCG 2008 buddy. Grubby took down Moon 2-1. Actually did Moon ever win a WCG?? I don't think so. Grubby > Moon in WC3. Easy. I don't think there are many people in this world who would consider a single BO3 as an indicator of superiority. Please just admit that you didn't very actively follow the WC3 scene. You're arguing against adapeople who are significantly more knowledgeable on the matter. You'll notice you're pretty alone in your assessment, as Moon still has a very favorable record against Grubby, as well as being more dominant overall than Grubby ever was. While Moon was sometimes ranked a bit higher than Grubby they were always very close (Gosu Gamers 2008 ranking has them within 30 points). Now add in the fact that Grubby has by far far far more tournament wins I think the answer is clear. Grubby won Blizzcon 2005, won WCG 2004, won WCG 2008 (in which he BEAT MOON), second in WCG 2010, won WEM 2009. How many Blizzcons did Moon win? How many WCGs did Moon win? Oh yeah that's right NONE. Zip. I don't care if you think Moon was better, but don't act like there's no way in the world that one could consider Grubby a better player. Guy made orc look OP. And ranking don't mean shit if you can't win tournaments. Was Moon good? Hell yes, he was fucking amazing. But Grubby was better IMO. 2011 1st IEF Korea ($10,000) + Show Spoiler +
2010 1st NGL-One ($8,000)
2009 2nd Extreme Masters 4 ChengDu ($2,500)
2009 1st World Cyber Games Korea National Final ($1,600)
2009 4th E-Stars Seoul 2009 King of the Game ($800)
2009 3rd Norton Anti-Virus GOMTV World Invitational ($800)
2009 4th IEM3 Chengdu ($1,000 USD)
2008 1st IEF ($11,600 USD)
2008 4th ESL Continental Final Asia ($1,000 USD)
2008 2nd IeSF Invitational ($4,000 USD)
2008 2nd World Cyber Games (Germany) ($7,000 USD)
2008 3rd NicegameTV War3 League Season1 (Korea) (￦2,000,000 := 1379USD)
2008 1st ESWC Masters of Paris ($2,500 USD)
2008 1st Blizzard Worldwide Invitational 2008 (Paris) $11000 USD
2008 2nd PGL 2008 Warcraft III League Season3 Final (China) (40,000RMB := $5,794USD)
2008 4th NSL 2008 Warcraft III League Season2
2008 1st PGL 2007 Warcraft III League Season2 Final (China) (80,000RMB := $11,000USD)
2008 1st CEG 2007 shaoxing (China) ($2,000 EUR)
2007 3rd IEF MASTERS 2007 (China) ($2,000 USD)
2007 2nd Afreeca Warcraft League 2007 (South Korea) (￦3,000,000 := $3,000 USD)
2007 2nd Make Games Colorful 2007 (China) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st Lenovo IEST 2007 (China) ($21,394 USD)
2007 3rd World Cyber Games 2007 (USA) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st GGL Digital Life New York (USA) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st China E-Sport Games Xi'an (China) ($2,600 USD)
2007 1st GGL Digital Life Chengdu (China) ($10,600 USD)
2007 2nd WEG e-Star Seoul (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War Grand Prix (South Korea) ($20,000 USD)
2007 2nd Pro Gaming League (China) ($4,000 USD)
2007 1st Dreamhack Summer 2007 (Sweden) ($2,850 USD)
2007 1st Battle.net Ladder Season V Asia (South Korea) ($1,000 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War III (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2007 1st World Series of Video Games China (China) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st NSL (China) ($2,500 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War II (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2007 1st Game-X (Russia) ($38,120 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War I (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2006 1st MBCGame World War III (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2006 1st MBCGame World War II (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2006 1st Lenovo IEST 2006 (China) ($20,000 USD)
2006 1st Superfight 2 (South Korea) ($8,500 USD)
2006 1st Digital Life Gaming Tournament 2006 (USA) ($5,000 USD)
2006 4th World E-Sport Games Masters (China) ($1,000 USD)
2005 1st World E-Sports Festival (China)
2005 1st International E-Sports Festival (China)
2005 1st China Korea Cyber Games (China) ($10,000 USD)
2005 1st World E-Sports Games Season I (South Korea) ($20,000 USD)
2005 1st World E-Sports Games Season II (South Korea) ($20,000 USD)
2005 1st MBCGame Warcraft League Season I (South Korea)
2005 2nd OnGameNet War3 TFT Invitational (South Korea)
2005 1st MBCGame Prime League V (South Korea)
2004 9th World Cyber Games (USA)
2004 3rd World Cyber Games, Korea (South Korea)
2003 2nd MBCGame Prime League III (South Korea)
2003 1st MBCGame Prime League II (South Korea)
Just fyi. Just FYI I already checked before I posted that, Grubby's list is definetly bigger (if you really want to play that game) as well as more impressive in terms of major tournament wins: http://www.gosugamers.net/warcraft/rankings/382I highly doubt we are going to resolve the Grubber versus Moon debate here (it's been going on much longer and will continue to go on). I honestly really don't care who you think it better, just absurd you telling me that I don't know what I'm talking about for saying Grubby is the better player. Clearly there is some grounds to that argument, even if you don't agree.
His list only contains major tournaments, while yours contains zotac cups lol
but i agree, you can argue as much as you want, since both have their place.. moon is probably remembered as the better player by more ppl, since he was unbeatable 2007 and became the fifth race..
€: or 2006? cant remember anymore
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On January 18 2012 06:40 fleeze wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 06:36 HolydaKing wrote:On January 18 2012 06:33 fleeze wrote:On January 18 2012 06:16 svi wrote:
top 10 all time in wc3 is almost indisputably:
1. Moon 2. Grubby 3. Sky 4. Lyn 5. Creo 6. ToD 7. ReMinD 8. Infi 9. Zacard 10. FoV
FLY100% and Sweet are definately top 6 before Creo and ToD. anyway great pickup by fnatic hope to see more of moon in sc2. All a question of what you want to show with your ranking... if it's about achievements, then Creo isn't top 10... if it's about raw skill, then probably. yes, i agree. but those two are top 6 for sure and were missing. Sweet was the best UD in WC3 by far results and skill wise. FLY was moon and grubbys arch enemy. they lost many games against him.
Well to me Lucifer was better then Sweet but he had to go to army  And seriously putting fly100% before Tod >.< ?
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Couldn't of picked up a better player!
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On January 18 2012 06:40 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 06:33 Zalitara wrote:On January 18 2012 06:25 TheToast wrote:On January 18 2012 05:58 Mohdoo wrote:On January 18 2012 05:56 TheToast wrote:On January 18 2012 05:48 koning wrote:On January 18 2012 05:40 TheToast wrote:On January 18 2012 05:38 svi wrote:
moon was a god in warcraft 3.
i just don't know if he'll show the same dedication he did since he's married now.
he used to have a legendary work ethic (i remember a chinese player saying that when he went to sleep moon was practicing, and when he woke up, moon was still practicing) and if he still has that same drive, then he'll do really well. He was no Grubby. Still excited to see Moon join Fnatic, but since he was a Night Elf player I will have to root against him in every game. wait what? I'm the biggest Grubby fanboy but what you just said is plain silly WCG 2008 buddy. Grubby took down Moon 2-1. Actually did Moon ever win a WCG?? I don't think so. Grubby > Moon in WC3. Easy. I don't think there are many people in this world who would consider a single BO3 as an indicator of superiority. Please just admit that you didn't very actively follow the WC3 scene. You're arguing against adapeople who are significantly more knowledgeable on the matter. You'll notice you're pretty alone in your assessment, as Moon still has a very favorable record against Grubby, as well as being more dominant overall than Grubby ever was. While Moon was sometimes ranked a bit higher than Grubby they were always very close (Gosu Gamers 2008 ranking has them within 30 points). Now add in the fact that Grubby has by far far far more tournament wins I think the answer is clear. Grubby won Blizzcon 2005, won WCG 2004, won WCG 2008 (in which he BEAT MOON), second in WCG 2010, won WEM 2009. How many Blizzcons did Moon win? How many WCGs did Moon win? Oh yeah that's right NONE. Zip. I don't care if you think Moon was better, but don't act like there's no way in the world that one could consider Grubby a better player. Guy made orc look OP. And ranking don't mean shit if you can't win tournaments. Was Moon good? Hell yes, he was fucking amazing. But Grubby was better IMO. 2011 1st IEF Korea ($10,000) + Show Spoiler +
2010 1st NGL-One ($8,000)
2009 2nd Extreme Masters 4 ChengDu ($2,500)
2009 1st World Cyber Games Korea National Final ($1,600)
2009 4th E-Stars Seoul 2009 King of the Game ($800)
2009 3rd Norton Anti-Virus GOMTV World Invitational ($800)
2009 4th IEM3 Chengdu ($1,000 USD)
2008 1st IEF ($11,600 USD)
2008 4th ESL Continental Final Asia ($1,000 USD)
2008 2nd IeSF Invitational ($4,000 USD)
2008 2nd World Cyber Games (Germany) ($7,000 USD)
2008 3rd NicegameTV War3 League Season1 (Korea) (￦2,000,000 := 1379USD)
2008 1st ESWC Masters of Paris ($2,500 USD)
2008 1st Blizzard Worldwide Invitational 2008 (Paris) $11000 USD
2008 2nd PGL 2008 Warcraft III League Season3 Final (China) (40,000RMB := $5,794USD)
2008 4th NSL 2008 Warcraft III League Season2
2008 1st PGL 2007 Warcraft III League Season2 Final (China) (80,000RMB := $11,000USD)
2008 1st CEG 2007 shaoxing (China) ($2,000 EUR)
2007 3rd IEF MASTERS 2007 (China) ($2,000 USD)
2007 2nd Afreeca Warcraft League 2007 (South Korea) (￦3,000,000 := $3,000 USD)
2007 2nd Make Games Colorful 2007 (China) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st Lenovo IEST 2007 (China) ($21,394 USD)
2007 3rd World Cyber Games 2007 (USA) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st GGL Digital Life New York (USA) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st China E-Sport Games Xi'an (China) ($2,600 USD)
2007 1st GGL Digital Life Chengdu (China) ($10,600 USD)
2007 2nd WEG e-Star Seoul (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War Grand Prix (South Korea) ($20,000 USD)
2007 2nd Pro Gaming League (China) ($4,000 USD)
2007 1st Dreamhack Summer 2007 (Sweden) ($2,850 USD)
2007 1st Battle.net Ladder Season V Asia (South Korea) ($1,000 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War III (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2007 1st World Series of Video Games China (China) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st NSL (China) ($2,500 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War II (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2007 1st Game-X (Russia) ($38,120 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War I (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2006 1st MBCGame World War III (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2006 1st MBCGame World War II (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2006 1st Lenovo IEST 2006 (China) ($20,000 USD)
2006 1st Superfight 2 (South Korea) ($8,500 USD)
2006 1st Digital Life Gaming Tournament 2006 (USA) ($5,000 USD)
2006 4th World E-Sport Games Masters (China) ($1,000 USD)
2005 1st World E-Sports Festival (China)
2005 1st International E-Sports Festival (China)
2005 1st China Korea Cyber Games (China) ($10,000 USD)
2005 1st World E-Sports Games Season I (South Korea) ($20,000 USD)
2005 1st World E-Sports Games Season II (South Korea) ($20,000 USD)
2005 1st MBCGame Warcraft League Season I (South Korea)
2005 2nd OnGameNet War3 TFT Invitational (South Korea)
2005 1st MBCGame Prime League V (South Korea)
2004 9th World Cyber Games (USA)
2004 3rd World Cyber Games, Korea (South Korea)
2003 2nd MBCGame Prime League III (South Korea)
2003 1st MBCGame Prime League II (South Korea)
Just fyi. Just FYI I already checked before I posted that, Grubby's list is definetly bigger (if you really want to play that game) as well as more impressive in terms of major tournament wins: http://www.gosugamers.net/warcraft/rankings/382I highly doubt we are going to resolve the Grubber versus Moon debate here (it's been going on much longer and will continue to go on). I honestly really don't care who you think it better, just absurd you telling me that I don't know what I'm talking about for saying Grubby is the better player. Clearly there is some grounds to that argument, even if you don't agree.
you are wrong. moons ranking doesnt contain weekly cups such as zotac, he was def. the more accomplished and better player. argueing with that is just wrong :/
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moon fulltime devoted to sc2? f*ck yah!!
moon's a big time tourney performer
cant wait
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On January 18 2012 06:40 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 06:33 Zalitara wrote:On January 18 2012 06:25 TheToast wrote:On January 18 2012 05:58 Mohdoo wrote:On January 18 2012 05:56 TheToast wrote:On January 18 2012 05:48 koning wrote:On January 18 2012 05:40 TheToast wrote:On January 18 2012 05:38 svi wrote:
moon was a god in warcraft 3.
i just don't know if he'll show the same dedication he did since he's married now.
he used to have a legendary work ethic (i remember a chinese player saying that when he went to sleep moon was practicing, and when he woke up, moon was still practicing) and if he still has that same drive, then he'll do really well. He was no Grubby. Still excited to see Moon join Fnatic, but since he was a Night Elf player I will have to root against him in every game. wait what? I'm the biggest Grubby fanboy but what you just said is plain silly WCG 2008 buddy. Grubby took down Moon 2-1. Actually did Moon ever win a WCG?? I don't think so. Grubby > Moon in WC3. Easy. I don't think there are many people in this world who would consider a single BO3 as an indicator of superiority. Please just admit that you didn't very actively follow the WC3 scene. You're arguing against adapeople who are significantly more knowledgeable on the matter. You'll notice you're pretty alone in your assessment, as Moon still has a very favorable record against Grubby, as well as being more dominant overall than Grubby ever was. While Moon was sometimes ranked a bit higher than Grubby they were always very close (Gosu Gamers 2008 ranking has them within 30 points). Now add in the fact that Grubby has by far far far more tournament wins I think the answer is clear. Grubby won Blizzcon 2005, won WCG 2004, won WCG 2008 (in which he BEAT MOON), second in WCG 2010, won WEM 2009. How many Blizzcons did Moon win? How many WCGs did Moon win? Oh yeah that's right NONE. Zip. I don't care if you think Moon was better, but don't act like there's no way in the world that one could consider Grubby a better player. Guy made orc look OP. And ranking don't mean shit if you can't win tournaments. Was Moon good? Hell yes, he was fucking amazing. But Grubby was better IMO. 2011 1st IEF Korea ($10,000) + Show Spoiler +
2010 1st NGL-One ($8,000)
2009 2nd Extreme Masters 4 ChengDu ($2,500)
2009 1st World Cyber Games Korea National Final ($1,600)
2009 4th E-Stars Seoul 2009 King of the Game ($800)
2009 3rd Norton Anti-Virus GOMTV World Invitational ($800)
2009 4th IEM3 Chengdu ($1,000 USD)
2008 1st IEF ($11,600 USD)
2008 4th ESL Continental Final Asia ($1,000 USD)
2008 2nd IeSF Invitational ($4,000 USD)
2008 2nd World Cyber Games (Germany) ($7,000 USD)
2008 3rd NicegameTV War3 League Season1 (Korea) (￦2,000,000 := 1379USD)
2008 1st ESWC Masters of Paris ($2,500 USD)
2008 1st Blizzard Worldwide Invitational 2008 (Paris) $11000 USD
2008 2nd PGL 2008 Warcraft III League Season3 Final (China) (40,000RMB := $5,794USD)
2008 4th NSL 2008 Warcraft III League Season2
2008 1st PGL 2007 Warcraft III League Season2 Final (China) (80,000RMB := $11,000USD)
2008 1st CEG 2007 shaoxing (China) ($2,000 EUR)
2007 3rd IEF MASTERS 2007 (China) ($2,000 USD)
2007 2nd Afreeca Warcraft League 2007 (South Korea) (￦3,000,000 := $3,000 USD)
2007 2nd Make Games Colorful 2007 (China) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st Lenovo IEST 2007 (China) ($21,394 USD)
2007 3rd World Cyber Games 2007 (USA) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st GGL Digital Life New York (USA) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st China E-Sport Games Xi'an (China) ($2,600 USD)
2007 1st GGL Digital Life Chengdu (China) ($10,600 USD)
2007 2nd WEG e-Star Seoul (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War Grand Prix (South Korea) ($20,000 USD)
2007 2nd Pro Gaming League (China) ($4,000 USD)
2007 1st Dreamhack Summer 2007 (Sweden) ($2,850 USD)
2007 1st Battle.net Ladder Season V Asia (South Korea) ($1,000 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War III (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2007 1st World Series of Video Games China (China) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st NSL (China) ($2,500 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War II (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2007 1st Game-X (Russia) ($38,120 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War I (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2006 1st MBCGame World War III (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2006 1st MBCGame World War II (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2006 1st Lenovo IEST 2006 (China) ($20,000 USD)
2006 1st Superfight 2 (South Korea) ($8,500 USD)
2006 1st Digital Life Gaming Tournament 2006 (USA) ($5,000 USD)
2006 4th World E-Sport Games Masters (China) ($1,000 USD)
2005 1st World E-Sports Festival (China)
2005 1st International E-Sports Festival (China)
2005 1st China Korea Cyber Games (China) ($10,000 USD)
2005 1st World E-Sports Games Season I (South Korea) ($20,000 USD)
2005 1st World E-Sports Games Season II (South Korea) ($20,000 USD)
2005 1st MBCGame Warcraft League Season I (South Korea)
2005 2nd OnGameNet War3 TFT Invitational (South Korea)
2005 1st MBCGame Prime League V (South Korea)
2004 9th World Cyber Games (USA)
2004 3rd World Cyber Games, Korea (South Korea)
2003 2nd MBCGame Prime League III (South Korea)
2003 1st MBCGame Prime League II (South Korea)
Just fyi. Just FYI I already checked before I posted that, Grubby's list is definetly bigger (if you really want to play that game) as well as more impressive in terms of major tournament wins: http://www.gosugamers.net/warcraft/rankings/382I highly doubt we are going to resolve the Grubber versus Moon debate here (it's been going on much longer and will continue to go on). I honestly really don't care who you think it better, just absurd you telling me that I don't know what I'm talking about for saying Grubby is the better player. Clearly there is some grounds to that argument, even if you don't agree.
It's already been resolved hasn't it? Is Moon not the best WC3 player of all time? Not to mention one of the highest paid players in E-Sport history? Furthermore, Moon had a much longer WC3 career than Grubby. I never was a huge WC3 fan but even people who don't follow the scene know Moon because he was that good...
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EPT
