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It has been said many times, even by grubby himself. Moon is the better player. Both players are kings of thier races, but moon is like 20-7 against grubby.
Personaly, i think the bigger argument is who is better sky/moon.
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niiiiiice moon as a full time sc2 pro with no wc3 will be amazing im sure 
GOGO MOON
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37055 Posts
Lol! TL guessed it like 2 days ago but... CONGRATS MOON!!! GL!!!
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On January 18 2012 06:40 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 06:33 Zalitara wrote:On January 18 2012 06:25 TheToast wrote:On January 18 2012 05:58 Mohdoo wrote:On January 18 2012 05:56 TheToast wrote:On January 18 2012 05:48 koning wrote:On January 18 2012 05:40 TheToast wrote:On January 18 2012 05:38 svi wrote:
moon was a god in warcraft 3.
i just don't know if he'll show the same dedication he did since he's married now.
he used to have a legendary work ethic (i remember a chinese player saying that when he went to sleep moon was practicing, and when he woke up, moon was still practicing) and if he still has that same drive, then he'll do really well. He was no Grubby. Still excited to see Moon join Fnatic, but since he was a Night Elf player I will have to root against him in every game. wait what? I'm the biggest Grubby fanboy but what you just said is plain silly WCG 2008 buddy. Grubby took down Moon 2-1. Actually did Moon ever win a WCG?? I don't think so. Grubby > Moon in WC3. Easy. I don't think there are many people in this world who would consider a single BO3 as an indicator of superiority. Please just admit that you didn't very actively follow the WC3 scene. You're arguing against adapeople who are significantly more knowledgeable on the matter. You'll notice you're pretty alone in your assessment, as Moon still has a very favorable record against Grubby, as well as being more dominant overall than Grubby ever was. While Moon was sometimes ranked a bit higher than Grubby they were always very close (Gosu Gamers 2008 ranking has them within 30 points). Now add in the fact that Grubby has by far far far more tournament wins I think the answer is clear. Grubby won Blizzcon 2005, won WCG 2004, won WCG 2008 (in which he BEAT MOON), second in WCG 2010, won WEM 2009. How many Blizzcons did Moon win? How many WCGs did Moon win? Oh yeah that's right NONE. Zip. I don't care if you think Moon was better, but don't act like there's no way in the world that one could consider Grubby a better player. Guy made orc look OP. And ranking don't mean shit if you can't win tournaments. Was Moon good? Hell yes, he was fucking amazing. But Grubby was better IMO. 2011 1st IEF Korea ($10,000) + Show Spoiler +
2010 1st NGL-One ($8,000)
2009 2nd Extreme Masters 4 ChengDu ($2,500)
2009 1st World Cyber Games Korea National Final ($1,600)
2009 4th E-Stars Seoul 2009 King of the Game ($800)
2009 3rd Norton Anti-Virus GOMTV World Invitational ($800)
2009 4th IEM3 Chengdu ($1,000 USD)
2008 1st IEF ($11,600 USD)
2008 4th ESL Continental Final Asia ($1,000 USD)
2008 2nd IeSF Invitational ($4,000 USD)
2008 2nd World Cyber Games (Germany) ($7,000 USD)
2008 3rd NicegameTV War3 League Season1 (Korea) (￦2,000,000 := 1379USD)
2008 1st ESWC Masters of Paris ($2,500 USD)
2008 1st Blizzard Worldwide Invitational 2008 (Paris) $11000 USD
2008 2nd PGL 2008 Warcraft III League Season3 Final (China) (40,000RMB := $5,794USD)
2008 4th NSL 2008 Warcraft III League Season2
2008 1st PGL 2007 Warcraft III League Season2 Final (China) (80,000RMB := $11,000USD)
2008 1st CEG 2007 shaoxing (China) ($2,000 EUR)
2007 3rd IEF MASTERS 2007 (China) ($2,000 USD)
2007 2nd Afreeca Warcraft League 2007 (South Korea) (￦3,000,000 := $3,000 USD)
2007 2nd Make Games Colorful 2007 (China) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st Lenovo IEST 2007 (China) ($21,394 USD)
2007 3rd World Cyber Games 2007 (USA) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st GGL Digital Life New York (USA) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st China E-Sport Games Xi'an (China) ($2,600 USD)
2007 1st GGL Digital Life Chengdu (China) ($10,600 USD)
2007 2nd WEG e-Star Seoul (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War Grand Prix (South Korea) ($20,000 USD)
2007 2nd Pro Gaming League (China) ($4,000 USD)
2007 1st Dreamhack Summer 2007 (Sweden) ($2,850 USD)
2007 1st Battle.net Ladder Season V Asia (South Korea) ($1,000 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War III (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2007 1st World Series of Video Games China (China) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st NSL (China) ($2,500 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War II (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2007 1st Game-X (Russia) ($38,120 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War I (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2006 1st MBCGame World War III (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2006 1st MBCGame World War II (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2006 1st Lenovo IEST 2006 (China) ($20,000 USD)
2006 1st Superfight 2 (South Korea) ($8,500 USD)
2006 1st Digital Life Gaming Tournament 2006 (USA) ($5,000 USD)
2006 4th World E-Sport Games Masters (China) ($1,000 USD)
2005 1st World E-Sports Festival (China)
2005 1st International E-Sports Festival (China)
2005 1st China Korea Cyber Games (China) ($10,000 USD)
2005 1st World E-Sports Games Season I (South Korea) ($20,000 USD)
2005 1st World E-Sports Games Season II (South Korea) ($20,000 USD)
2005 1st MBCGame Warcraft League Season I (South Korea)
2005 2nd OnGameNet War3 TFT Invitational (South Korea)
2005 1st MBCGame Prime League V (South Korea)
2004 9th World Cyber Games (USA)
2004 3rd World Cyber Games, Korea (South Korea)
2003 2nd MBCGame Prime League III (South Korea)
2003 1st MBCGame Prime League II (South Korea)
Just fyi. Just FYI I already checked before I posted that, Grubby's list is definetly bigger (if you really want to play that game) as well as more impressive in terms of major tournament wins: http://www.gosugamers.net/warcraft/rankings/382I highly doubt we are going to resolve the Grubber versus Moon debate here (it's been going on much longer and will continue to go on). I honestly really don't care who you think it better, just absurd you telling me that I don't know what I'm talking about for saying Grubby is the better player. Clearly there is some grounds to that argument, even if you don't agree.
ROFL "Guy made orc look OP."
I'm pretty sure you didn't follow WC3 at all.
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On January 18 2012 06:46 noaki wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 06:40 TheToast wrote:On January 18 2012 06:33 Zalitara wrote:On January 18 2012 06:25 TheToast wrote:On January 18 2012 05:58 Mohdoo wrote:On January 18 2012 05:56 TheToast wrote:On January 18 2012 05:48 koning wrote:On January 18 2012 05:40 TheToast wrote:On January 18 2012 05:38 svi wrote:
moon was a god in warcraft 3.
i just don't know if he'll show the same dedication he did since he's married now.
he used to have a legendary work ethic (i remember a chinese player saying that when he went to sleep moon was practicing, and when he woke up, moon was still practicing) and if he still has that same drive, then he'll do really well. He was no Grubby. Still excited to see Moon join Fnatic, but since he was a Night Elf player I will have to root against him in every game. wait what? I'm the biggest Grubby fanboy but what you just said is plain silly WCG 2008 buddy. Grubby took down Moon 2-1. Actually did Moon ever win a WCG?? I don't think so. Grubby > Moon in WC3. Easy. I don't think there are many people in this world who would consider a single BO3 as an indicator of superiority. Please just admit that you didn't very actively follow the WC3 scene. You're arguing against adapeople who are significantly more knowledgeable on the matter. You'll notice you're pretty alone in your assessment, as Moon still has a very favorable record against Grubby, as well as being more dominant overall than Grubby ever was. While Moon was sometimes ranked a bit higher than Grubby they were always very close (Gosu Gamers 2008 ranking has them within 30 points). Now add in the fact that Grubby has by far far far more tournament wins I think the answer is clear. Grubby won Blizzcon 2005, won WCG 2004, won WCG 2008 (in which he BEAT MOON), second in WCG 2010, won WEM 2009. How many Blizzcons did Moon win? How many WCGs did Moon win? Oh yeah that's right NONE. Zip. I don't care if you think Moon was better, but don't act like there's no way in the world that one could consider Grubby a better player. Guy made orc look OP. And ranking don't mean shit if you can't win tournaments. Was Moon good? Hell yes, he was fucking amazing. But Grubby was better IMO. 2011 1st IEF Korea ($10,000) + Show Spoiler +
2010 1st NGL-One ($8,000)
2009 2nd Extreme Masters 4 ChengDu ($2,500)
2009 1st World Cyber Games Korea National Final ($1,600)
2009 4th E-Stars Seoul 2009 King of the Game ($800)
2009 3rd Norton Anti-Virus GOMTV World Invitational ($800)
2009 4th IEM3 Chengdu ($1,000 USD)
2008 1st IEF ($11,600 USD)
2008 4th ESL Continental Final Asia ($1,000 USD)
2008 2nd IeSF Invitational ($4,000 USD)
2008 2nd World Cyber Games (Germany) ($7,000 USD)
2008 3rd NicegameTV War3 League Season1 (Korea) (￦2,000,000 := 1379USD)
2008 1st ESWC Masters of Paris ($2,500 USD)
2008 1st Blizzard Worldwide Invitational 2008 (Paris) $11000 USD
2008 2nd PGL 2008 Warcraft III League Season3 Final (China) (40,000RMB := $5,794USD)
2008 4th NSL 2008 Warcraft III League Season2
2008 1st PGL 2007 Warcraft III League Season2 Final (China) (80,000RMB := $11,000USD)
2008 1st CEG 2007 shaoxing (China) ($2,000 EUR)
2007 3rd IEF MASTERS 2007 (China) ($2,000 USD)
2007 2nd Afreeca Warcraft League 2007 (South Korea) (￦3,000,000 := $3,000 USD)
2007 2nd Make Games Colorful 2007 (China) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st Lenovo IEST 2007 (China) ($21,394 USD)
2007 3rd World Cyber Games 2007 (USA) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st GGL Digital Life New York (USA) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st China E-Sport Games Xi'an (China) ($2,600 USD)
2007 1st GGL Digital Life Chengdu (China) ($10,600 USD)
2007 2nd WEG e-Star Seoul (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War Grand Prix (South Korea) ($20,000 USD)
2007 2nd Pro Gaming League (China) ($4,000 USD)
2007 1st Dreamhack Summer 2007 (Sweden) ($2,850 USD)
2007 1st Battle.net Ladder Season V Asia (South Korea) ($1,000 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War III (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2007 1st World Series of Video Games China (China) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st NSL (China) ($2,500 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War II (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2007 1st Game-X (Russia) ($38,120 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War I (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2006 1st MBCGame World War III (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2006 1st MBCGame World War II (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2006 1st Lenovo IEST 2006 (China) ($20,000 USD)
2006 1st Superfight 2 (South Korea) ($8,500 USD)
2006 1st Digital Life Gaming Tournament 2006 (USA) ($5,000 USD)
2006 4th World E-Sport Games Masters (China) ($1,000 USD)
2005 1st World E-Sports Festival (China)
2005 1st International E-Sports Festival (China)
2005 1st China Korea Cyber Games (China) ($10,000 USD)
2005 1st World E-Sports Games Season I (South Korea) ($20,000 USD)
2005 1st World E-Sports Games Season II (South Korea) ($20,000 USD)
2005 1st MBCGame Warcraft League Season I (South Korea)
2005 2nd OnGameNet War3 TFT Invitational (South Korea)
2005 1st MBCGame Prime League V (South Korea)
2004 9th World Cyber Games (USA)
2004 3rd World Cyber Games, Korea (South Korea)
2003 2nd MBCGame Prime League III (South Korea)
2003 1st MBCGame Prime League II (South Korea)
Just fyi. Just FYI I already checked before I posted that, Grubby's list is definetly bigger (if you really want to play that game) as well as more impressive in terms of major tournament wins: http://www.gosugamers.net/warcraft/rankings/382I highly doubt we are going to resolve the Grubber versus Moon debate here (it's been going on much longer and will continue to go on). I honestly really don't care who you think it better, just absurd you telling me that I don't know what I'm talking about for saying Grubby is the better player. Clearly there is some grounds to that argument, even if you don't agree. His list only contains major tournaments, while yours contains zotac cups lol but i agree, you can argue as much as you want, since both have their place.. moon is probably remembered as the better player by more ppl, since he was unbeatable 2007 and became the fifth race.. €: or 2006? cant remember anymore
Yeah, ReMinD's trophy list will turn into an encyclopedia if we include Zotac Cup titles.
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On January 18 2012 06:47 Sea_aeS wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 06:40 fleeze wrote:On January 18 2012 06:36 HolydaKing wrote:On January 18 2012 06:33 fleeze wrote:On January 18 2012 06:16 svi wrote:
top 10 all time in wc3 is almost indisputably:
1. Moon 2. Grubby 3. Sky 4. Lyn 5. Creo 6. ToD 7. ReMinD 8. Infi 9. Zacard 10. FoV
FLY100% and Sweet are definately top 6 before Creo and ToD. anyway great pickup by fnatic hope to see more of moon in sc2. All a question of what you want to show with your ranking... if it's about achievements, then Creo isn't top 10... if it's about raw skill, then probably. yes, i agree. but those two are top 6 for sure and were missing. Sweet was the best UD in WC3 by far results and skill wise. FLY was moon and grubbys arch enemy. they lost many games against him. Well to me Lucifer was better then Sweet but he had to go to army  And seriously putting fly100% before Tod >.< ?
Sweet is legendary. First lvl 50 ever, and was a guy who could dissappear for a while and then suddenly come back and win an important tournament. Lucifer was very, very solid, and probably more known in the western scene in certain periods, but Sweet should be considered better for his accomplishments, and since he started dominating long before Lucifer was known.
Edit: To the guy under, I'd rank both FoV and Sweet over Lucifer. Anyone remember the "Undead five" gang from Korea? Sweet, ReiGn, FoV, GoStop and Susiria. And Madfrog rivaling them from the foreign scene. Good times. Was never quite the same with Happy/Space/TeD in the end, though TeD was extremely good.
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if you guys are talking about best with races it's:
Orc - Grubby, Night Elf - Moon, Human - Sky, Undead - Lucifer, Fifth Race - Moon
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United States4796 Posts
Whoo! This is quite exciting. Really want to see him do very well.
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On January 18 2012 06:54 trinxified wrote:
if you guys are talking about best with races it's:
Orc - Grubby, Night Elf - Moon, Human - Sky, Undead - Lucifer
Would TH000 be up there at all? I didn't follow WC3 at all.
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fuck yeah, wc3 ftw!! Moon gogo =)
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On January 18 2012 06:40 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 06:33 Zalitara wrote:On January 18 2012 06:25 TheToast wrote:On January 18 2012 05:58 Mohdoo wrote:On January 18 2012 05:56 TheToast wrote:On January 18 2012 05:48 koning wrote:On January 18 2012 05:40 TheToast wrote:On January 18 2012 05:38 svi wrote:
moon was a god in warcraft 3.
i just don't know if he'll show the same dedication he did since he's married now.
he used to have a legendary work ethic (i remember a chinese player saying that when he went to sleep moon was practicing, and when he woke up, moon was still practicing) and if he still has that same drive, then he'll do really well. He was no Grubby. Still excited to see Moon join Fnatic, but since he was a Night Elf player I will have to root against him in every game. wait what? I'm the biggest Grubby fanboy but what you just said is plain silly WCG 2008 buddy. Grubby took down Moon 2-1. Actually did Moon ever win a WCG?? I don't think so. Grubby > Moon in WC3. Easy. I don't think there are many people in this world who would consider a single BO3 as an indicator of superiority. Please just admit that you didn't very actively follow the WC3 scene. You're arguing against adapeople who are significantly more knowledgeable on the matter. You'll notice you're pretty alone in your assessment, as Moon still has a very favorable record against Grubby, as well as being more dominant overall than Grubby ever was. While Moon was sometimes ranked a bit higher than Grubby they were always very close (Gosu Gamers 2008 ranking has them within 30 points). Now add in the fact that Grubby has by far far far more tournament wins I think the answer is clear. Grubby won Blizzcon 2005, won WCG 2004, won WCG 2008 (in which he BEAT MOON), second in WCG 2010, won WEM 2009. How many Blizzcons did Moon win? How many WCGs did Moon win? Oh yeah that's right NONE. Zip. I don't care if you think Moon was better, but don't act like there's no way in the world that one could consider Grubby a better player. Guy made orc look OP. And ranking don't mean shit if you can't win tournaments. Was Moon good? Hell yes, he was fucking amazing. But Grubby was better IMO. 2011 1st IEF Korea ($10,000) + Show Spoiler +
2010 1st NGL-One ($8,000)
2009 2nd Extreme Masters 4 ChengDu ($2,500)
2009 1st World Cyber Games Korea National Final ($1,600)
2009 4th E-Stars Seoul 2009 King of the Game ($800)
2009 3rd Norton Anti-Virus GOMTV World Invitational ($800)
2009 4th IEM3 Chengdu ($1,000 USD)
2008 1st IEF ($11,600 USD)
2008 4th ESL Continental Final Asia ($1,000 USD)
2008 2nd IeSF Invitational ($4,000 USD)
2008 2nd World Cyber Games (Germany) ($7,000 USD)
2008 3rd NicegameTV War3 League Season1 (Korea) (￦2,000,000 := 1379USD)
2008 1st ESWC Masters of Paris ($2,500 USD)
2008 1st Blizzard Worldwide Invitational 2008 (Paris) $11000 USD
2008 2nd PGL 2008 Warcraft III League Season3 Final (China) (40,000RMB := $5,794USD)
2008 4th NSL 2008 Warcraft III League Season2
2008 1st PGL 2007 Warcraft III League Season2 Final (China) (80,000RMB := $11,000USD)
2008 1st CEG 2007 shaoxing (China) ($2,000 EUR)
2007 3rd IEF MASTERS 2007 (China) ($2,000 USD)
2007 2nd Afreeca Warcraft League 2007 (South Korea) (￦3,000,000 := $3,000 USD)
2007 2nd Make Games Colorful 2007 (China) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st Lenovo IEST 2007 (China) ($21,394 USD)
2007 3rd World Cyber Games 2007 (USA) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st GGL Digital Life New York (USA) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st China E-Sport Games Xi'an (China) ($2,600 USD)
2007 1st GGL Digital Life Chengdu (China) ($10,600 USD)
2007 2nd WEG e-Star Seoul (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War Grand Prix (South Korea) ($20,000 USD)
2007 2nd Pro Gaming League (China) ($4,000 USD)
2007 1st Dreamhack Summer 2007 (Sweden) ($2,850 USD)
2007 1st Battle.net Ladder Season V Asia (South Korea) ($1,000 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War III (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2007 1st World Series of Video Games China (China) ($5,000 USD)
2007 1st NSL (China) ($2,500 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War II (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2007 1st Game-X (Russia) ($38,120 USD)
2007 1st MBCGame World War I (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2006 1st MBCGame World War III (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2006 1st MBCGame World War II (South Korea) ($10,000 USD)
2006 1st Lenovo IEST 2006 (China) ($20,000 USD)
2006 1st Superfight 2 (South Korea) ($8,500 USD)
2006 1st Digital Life Gaming Tournament 2006 (USA) ($5,000 USD)
2006 4th World E-Sport Games Masters (China) ($1,000 USD)
2005 1st World E-Sports Festival (China)
2005 1st International E-Sports Festival (China)
2005 1st China Korea Cyber Games (China) ($10,000 USD)
2005 1st World E-Sports Games Season I (South Korea) ($20,000 USD)
2005 1st World E-Sports Games Season II (South Korea) ($20,000 USD)
2005 1st MBCGame Warcraft League Season I (South Korea)
2005 2nd OnGameNet War3 TFT Invitational (South Korea)
2005 1st MBCGame Prime League V (South Korea)
2004 9th World Cyber Games (USA)
2004 3rd World Cyber Games, Korea (South Korea)
2003 2nd MBCGame Prime League III (South Korea)
2003 1st MBCGame Prime League II (South Korea)
Just fyi. Just FYI I already checked before I posted that, Grubby's list is definetly bigger (if you really want to play that game) as well as more impressive in terms of major tournament wins: http://www.gosugamers.net/warcraft/rankings/382I highly doubt we are going to resolve the Grubber versus Moon debate here (it's been going on much longer and will continue to go on). I honestly really don't care who you think it better, just absurd you telling me that I don't know what I'm talking about for saying Grubby is the better player. Clearly there is some grounds to that argument, even if you don't agree.
If you want to include weekly cups, then Remind must be bonjwa.
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CALLED THAT SHIT.
Hope he does really awesome. ^_^
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Nobody is suprised...
Still awesome though! I kind of wish, however, that he had joined Liquid...
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On January 18 2012 06:56 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Nobody is suprised...
Still awesome though! I kind of wish, however, that he had joined Liquid...
Could Liquid afford Moon though? He couldn't have come cheap, especially if the rumours of chinese teams wanting him for both wc3 and dota were true.
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On January 18 2012 06:55 SeaSwift wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 06:54 trinxified wrote:
if you guys are talking about best with races it's:
Orc - Grubby, Night Elf - Moon, Human - Sky, Undead - Lucifer Would TH000 be up there at all? I didn't follow WC3 at all.
TH000 doesn't have the history of the others. I disagree re: Lucifer, but it's not something to argue about, haha.
TH000 and Infi are the two current HU powerhouses. TH000's more creative, Infi's ... well, Infi's known for a lot of things -- strategic, slow play backed up by "iffy" micro, primarily. I honestly wouldn't put either of them over Sky, and neither would they themselves.
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Sky might actually become the best of all time, now that he's the only one of the 3 who didn't switch.
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Old news isn't it?
Edit: People talking WC3, Grubby was "the best foreigner". He was "the foreigner to look out for", thus his legacy is best. You look at his results and I think it shows more Euro wins. Koreans had to play Koreans and Chinese had to play Chinese, which both of those scenes were much more competetive. Lyn and Fly were both freakin' awesome though, and for quite some time easily regarded as better than Grubby, but a lot because of the state of the game. Grubby was shining even when Orv wasn't completely overpowered =P
In terms of revolutionizing the game? Moon is the top Night Elf, in terms of saying "well nobody even has a chance to win this tournament because this player is playing" Remind takes it for best Night Elf. Even though Moon was awesome and revolutionized the way Night Elf was played, he wasn't freakin' bonjwa, and he never completely dominated like Remind did.
In terms of Undead, Lucifer, maybe, of all time, but TeD was the only Undead player that could stay good. Also, TeD won tournaments when Undead was considered an race you can't win with. Lucifer played when Undead was much stronger overall. Also, there were other Undead players who were just as good as Lucifer, they just didn't have the same spotlight.
As far as Human goes.... No Human player was truly dominant. Th000 DOMINATED the game for like, a few months where he won everything, and other Humans did stuff too but, the fact of the matter is that not too many Chinese or Koreans played Human. In fact for the longest time Korea had NO Human players that were even semi pro. You kinda have to give it to Sky, because he was the trend setter, and always showed consistent results. And because he was an awesome guy irl, same as the above, and was, by far, the fan favorite, as the above were.
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On January 18 2012 06:51 tpmraven wrote:
It has been said many times, even by grubby himself. Moon is the better player. Both players are kings of thier races, but moon is like 20-7 against grubby.
Personaly, i think the bigger argument is who is better sky/moon. Yeah, Sky was so fucking good. Don't have their head to head score, but it was always an amazing treat to see them play each other.
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ToD + Moon. Get grubby in there ASAP!
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EPT
