EPTUnit Clumping in SC2 - Good or Bad - Page 5
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magnaflow
Canada1521 Posts
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UmiNotsuki
United States633 Posts
You see where I'm going with this. | ||
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dekarp
286 Posts
On December 29 2011 12:13 CampinSam wrote: As noted before, it is not visually appealing when you see a ball of units, clumped together, trying to do something. I absolutely adore watching broodwar, and honestly wish that I could have enjoyed the time that broodwar was popular. Course, I'm stuck with SC2 now, so I guess I'll just have to deal. No one is forcing you to watch SC2, it's not something you're stuck with... especially since Brood War is still living and the PL is ongoing. | ||
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Josh_rakoons
United Kingdom1158 Posts
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Delvin
Finland141 Posts
On December 29 2011 14:49 Carmine wrote: Thread is pointless. The movement system is fluid and the units move well. The AoE units were designed around current clumping (storm size and tank nerfed relative to BW). So, if anything, Blizzard would just nerf AoE units more instead of redesigning the way all the units move. Non-issue. If clumping is reduced we can easily rebalance AoE back to their original values (storm radius was massively nerfed exactly because of this -- emp too recently). Plenty of examples already provided in this thread and the previous one that show why less clumping looks so much better. | ||
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jellyjello
Korea (South)664 Posts
On December 29 2011 14:31 OopsOopsBaby wrote: ![[image loading]](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/--KUABj6XNUc/TckOxQ4kmpI/AAAAAAAAAQU/8odJ6Cd0AfM/s640/1.JPG) self explanatory pic. Each unit has a dotted circle under them. Those circles shouldn't be overlapping each other. That would make the clumping more realistic in visual way. | ||
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nttea
Sweden4353 Posts
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aka_star
United Kingdom1546 Posts
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WCX
74 Posts
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Golbat
United States499 Posts
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SpaceFighting
New Zealand690 Posts
On December 29 2011 11:58 leo23 wrote: harder to micro because the units were retarded (dragoon) lmao yup.. so true | ||
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Dissonance23
United States259 Posts
On December 29 2011 14:51 magnaflow wrote: Unfortunatley only 1 of 3 races actually have to micro, and if you fuck it up the game is over Z in ZvZ? I agree. + Show Spoiler + No I think all 3 races have to micro. | ||
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SilverLeagueElite
United States626 Posts
Problem: People bitch and moan about aoe spells when their death ball gets wrecked. Aoe gets nerfed. Clumped deathballs persist. Quite a vicious circle we've got going on. | ||
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kineSiS-
Korea (South)1068 Posts
On December 29 2011 11:58 mrtomjones wrote: And unclumping them seems more useful than having them clumped so you can avoid AOE... just because bad mechanics forced you to click each dragoon 30 times so it didnt wander off on its own doesn't make it a better thing. Microing small groups of units to unclump them can be every bit as hard. But it obviously isn't because everyone is in consensus that SC: BW is a much harder game to master. | ||
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
On December 29 2011 13:07 Kluey wrote: So in Broodwar you couldn't actually control your Dragoon. It was like a retarded child. The reaver attack was glitched as fuck. Units came out of the same corner of the building so they'd get stuck if you didn't place them correctly. Not many people complained. In Starcraft 2, units clump up in a ball and all you have to do is make two boxes and click twice. People freak out. Reavers were never glitched. If they hit 100% of the time with full damage the game wouldve been horrible. There was a micro aspect to choosing where to attack with your reaver and micro/reaction time to avoiding taking full damage on the other side. Also, dragoons werent retarded, you just needed a lot of practice to get the most out of them. Also, I dont agree with people saying BW is harder to master necessarily. I think SC2 is plenty hard enough because it seems like the game is pretty much based on decision making.... I am actually quite amazed some guys such as MVP can have incredibly high win rates. | ||
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ScythedBlade
308 Posts
On December 29 2011 15:48 kineSiS- wrote: But it obviously isn't because everyone is in consensus that SC: BW is a much harder game to master. False Statement. Disproven by logic statements and parameterizing. The only true statement lies in that they are both different games, and you can apply various different functions to come out with either SC2 being harder or SC:BW being harder. One could easily say SC2 is so much harder because units die so easy that the amount of micro you could do in SC may be higher, but skillwise, it might be "harder" to micro in SC2 because events happen so fast. See this problem with human beings? | ||
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HowardRoark
1146 Posts
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
But i think its neither good nor bad. It was a choice they did and i think it was the best matching the overall game. Since there is magic boxing, and all the other stuff, you aren't forced to clump at all anyway. Overall i like this, and they balanced it around it. My only issue is that ranged instant hit units are pretty good, while ranged non instants are pretty bad, because they overkill terribly due to the ai. If people would get their wish and units would be unclumped, melee units would become weaker(slower zerglings), ranged units stronger(marine, range upgrade *-*) and aoe units would become stronger as well (colossi, their old attack maybe). And then again players would try to clump their units instead of trying to unclump them. So i guess it is what you prefer, do you want to have unclumped units on noob level, which means you will see deathballs in high level. Or do you want deathballs at noob level and unclump micro at high level. I want the later. And imo bw unit micro was easy against sc2 unit micro, it just felt hard because you had to commit most of your time to reproduce units while the fight was going on. But thats debatable. PS: i don't find unit clumping less unrealistic then what was up in bw if you didn't kept your units together. Line of doom ... Bumping into each other for 3 hours, ht dances when morphing archons ... Of course the sc2 thing has its issues, but its better then bw. And thats why i doubt the unit clumping will have a negative impact on sc2. At the end this is one of the things that makes sc2 hard, and people yet again want to remove the hard parts of the game. | ||
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emc
United States3088 Posts
I always go back to this argument because I feel like it's true, but it's that BW was a game that players had a lot of time to master and unit control was one of those. This game I feel will have an unlimited ceiling as far as unit control goes because of how precise and responsive the AI is and we've only been at this for a year. The only pathing type problem I have are colossus, not how they move but how they shoot. You could dodge lurker spines in BW, I think you should be able to dodge colossus volleys but you can't because the damage is instant. Definitely would be cooler if you could micro units to not take splash but with the the way the colossus is currently programmed it isn't possible. | ||
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oxxo
988 Posts
In SC2 you fight against good pathing/AI to enhance unit effectiveness. There's no real difference. | ||
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