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On December 22 2011 14:24 VGhost wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 14:14 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On December 22 2011 13:31 SCPlato wrote:On December 22 2011 12:53 BloodThirsty wrote:
Listen to everyone rippin people in here. Here are the facts:
Only making the name Quantic Gaming more relevant. If you (the one's who hate this move) truly want something to be done about it the best thing you can do is to IGNORE this whole post and anything to do with this. Otherwise all the hating is doing is good for Quantic.
Sure I may jealous and to some degree a hater of this move but in no way am I stupid when it comes to business. This thread alone shows how smart of a move for the brand and business of Quantic gaming this was. Hate or love it you are still talking about it. completely agree with your business sentiment, however Idra is a bad example because you are picking one of the most skilled players in the game so it is not a relevant example to female gamers being signed who are not good. Actually, now that I think about it, would Idra have been picked up by eSTRO/CJ Entus if he had been a Korean? idra almost certainly would have been picked up, at least as a practice partner/b-teamer. IMO there's no question that he was better even than several people who have gotten televised games regularly: Flying, hyvaa, Juni, come to mind.
'twas an honest question, I wasn't there when he went over. First series I recall seeing is him losing 1-2 to Trap in the Gom Classic, and then he was part of that list of players that included Tossgirl and the old legends (Boxer, Yellow, Reach, etc.) whom we always looked for in the offline prelims but kept losing in the first round.
Anyway, why do you believe there's "no question" that he was better than those players? His TLPD entry gives him an 8-20 record, Flying is 85-83 (over 50%), hyvaa is 156-151 (over 50%) and Juni is 99-120. And they've played some high calibre players too.
Hell, Pokju was 38-38.
Unfortunately, I never really followed the players who didn't have televised matches (because, well, they didn't have televised matches) so I really don't have any way to measure his performance on a fair metric. Given that you are apparently more knowledgeable than I, can you explain to me where your certainty comes from?
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Congrats Flo! GL with the team!!
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The only logical reason Quantic would sign her is just to get more publicity by the community for signing a female player and for no other reason.
I see a lot of people saying things like 'She is actually a competitive player and has the capacity of doing well given practice'.
However, I argue that if Quantic was looking for someone that could produce results in tournament and who wasn't just another publicity stunt to get their brand more recognition they need to look no further than the Grandmaster league of almost any server to find a 'gem in the ruff' so to speak (example of this would be Trimaster who was relevantly unknown and picked up by Complexity)
In Grandmaster league there ARE 100% players who are twice if not 3 times better than Flo in Grandmaster of almost every server who may be in a small team which provides no financial backing or who may not even be in a team at all who would be more than happy to have a large team backing them and top class practice partners.
The ONLY reason she in getting into a big team such as Quantic is because she is in-fact a female player who is semi-decent at starcraft 2. Even if she is the best FEMALE player available it does not mean that she is the BEST player without a team Quantic could have picked up to play competitively in tournaments.
She is merely a publicity stunt to get more brand recognition and nothing more.
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Osaka27168 Posts
Are any of those players going to be able to represent the team at female-only tournaments? No? Then it isn't a stunt.
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On December 22 2011 15:27 Manifesto7 wrote:
Are any of those players going to be able to represent the team at female-only tournaments? No? Then it isn't a stunt.
I agree with you but how much value does a female only tournament hold up after the novelty runs out of it? I am being realistic here that with all gender tournaments I.E. MLG a female tournament just feels like a novelty that will run out rather fast in ESports, Especially since ESports relatively is a small sport as it is. Also seeing as how gender yields no difference in performance or genetics then the novelty will surely run out fast. This isn't like the NBA and WNBA where woman clearly for genetic reasons cannot compete with males on a pro level. Now if a woman were to win MLG that would be an incredible thing. But this certainly to some degree is a "stunt" in the sense its a business move. If we are talking strictly on talent then this is clearly absolutely a stunt move. If you factor into marketability and maybe the few female only tournaments that may arise in the beginning the coverage it will provide for quantic then sure it'll be okay. But no way female only tournaments can on a consistent basis season in and out pull in sponsorships or compete with bigger tournaments such as MLG. I am not being mean here either I think its great for woman to get involved in this as it just brings more attention. But to some degree to say its not a stunt from a business standpoint is kind of silly. Another super star player regardless male or female would be a better move here then if we are saying it isnt a stunt as putting a purely better talented player to make it on stage at MLG event or other tournament would yield a much better gain. Female only tournaments in a non gender advantage sport will absolutely fizzle out there is little to no appeal to watching that from my perspective from how the community has reacted then it would be to watch Naniwa and Nestea play. Or MC and idra go at it and so on.
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On December 22 2011 15:27 Manifesto7 wrote:
Are any of those players going to be able to represent the team at female-only tournaments? No? Then it isn't a stunt.
Does anybody or team care about female tournaments? That's not where the money and glory is, so your argument is void. That being said, teams are a business and need to keep afloat. If it's a good marketing opportunity, then everyone wins. Not sure why people are so hung up on marketing gimmicks. Every business needs them. At least Flo looks like a nice, decent girl who doesn't come across as playing the sex card to get where she wants.
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The amount of recognition you get by supporting and nurturing a relatively unknown player. (Trimaster is one excellent example)
Who is no doubt better than Flo is far more worth while than Supporting a female player like Flo who will never be able to compete in open events which you cannot argue more people watch.
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On December 22 2011 09:27 WhiteraCares wrote:
If only I had a vagina I'd be in a sweet team aswell by now.
User was banned for this post.
She's one of the few female players who's actually good at the game and isn't just famous due to being female.
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Congrats to Flo on joining an amazing team!
It seems like she's dedicated to the game (and not bad either), so I think if she trains hard with the likes of nani, sase, destiny, etc. it's possible that she can become a force to be reckoned with in ANY tournament.
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Flo was dominating the female SC2 scene for a while, only recently she got a 2nd place which was an upset. Her rate of improvement is very good, she works very hard. She competes regularly in MLG etc, along other progamers and proceeds at least a few rounds deep. Don't be surprised if next year she pulls an upset or two against a renown progamer. Congrats Flo and Quantic.
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Osaka27168 Posts
On December 22 2011 15:36 BloodThirsty wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 15:27 Manifesto7 wrote:
Are any of those players going to be able to represent the team at female-only tournaments? No? Then it isn't a stunt. I agree with you but how much value does a female only tournament hold up after the novelty runs out of it? I am being realistic here that with all gender tournaments I.E. MLG a female tournament just feels like a novelty that will run out rather fast in ESports, Especially since ESports relatively is a small sport as it is. Also seeing as how gender yields no difference in performance or genetics then the novelty will surely run out fast. This isn't like the NBA and WNBA where woman clearly for genetic reasons cannot compete with males on a pro level. Now if a woman were to win MLG that would be an incredible thing. But this certainly to some degree is a "stunt" in the sense its a business move. If we are talking strictly on talent then this is clearly absolutely a stunt move. If you factor into marketability and maybe the few female only tournaments that may arise in the beginning the coverage it will provide for quantic then sure it'll be okay. But no way female only tournaments can on a consistent basis season in and out pull in sponsorships or compete with bigger tournaments such as MLG. I am not being mean here either I think its great for woman to get involved in this as it just brings more attention. But to some degree to say its not a stunt from a business standpoint is kind of silly. Another super star player regardless male or female would be a better move here then if we are saying it isnt a stunt as putting a purely better talented player to make it on stage at MLG event or other tournament would yield a much better gain. Female only tournaments in a non gender advantage sport will absolutely fizzle out there is little to no appeal to watching that from my perspective from how the community has reacted then it would be to watch Naniwa and Nestea play. Or MC and idra go at it and so on.
Your entire point is moot since there are still female only events. It doesn't matter whether you like them or not, they exist. End of story.
Because they exist, Quantic can enter their female roster into it. With no females on their roster, they cannot participate. The rest of your post about competing with MLG blah blah is completely off track, since that is not the prerequisite for success.
On December 22 2011 15:37 Tabula`Rasa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 15:27 Manifesto7 wrote:
Are any of those players going to be able to represent the team at female-only tournaments? No? Then it isn't a stunt. Does anybody or team care about female tournaments? That's not where the money and glory is, so your argument is void. That being said, teams are a business and need to keep afloat. If it's a good marketing opportunity, then everyone wins. Not sure why people are so hung up on marketing gimmicks. Every business needs them. At least Flo looks like a nice, decent girl who doesn't come across as playing the sex card to get where she wants.
Apparently they do, since they just wrapped one up with a pretty decent prize pool. Just because you don't like / don't care about them doesn't invalidate their existence. As long as their are events, there is room for her on the Quantic roster.
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People shouldn't hate on the teams or the players picking the females up, hate on the tournaments that allows bad players to be "progamer" and travel around the world playing for money Code B/Code A players who practice 10-12 hours a day never will see a glims off, just because of their gender.
In the end it's just gonna be like it was/is in Counter-Strike 1.6, girls will only play with girls in female only tournaments because there they have a chance not being completely destroyed, there they can have the 15 min of fame and there they don't need to put in the same time like males have to do but still earn some money. I wouldn't want this tho, I would love to see girls compete with guys but the more girls only cups, tournaments and league that will pop up the more the female players will "isolate" themselfs from the males and the skill gap will be huge.
GL Flo.
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On December 22 2011 15:42 Drowsy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 09:27 WhiteraCares wrote:
If only I had a vagina I'd be in a sweet team aswell by now.
User was banned for this post. She's one of the few female players who's actually good at the game and isn't just famous due to being female.
Famous? I had no idea who she was until now, and I do browse quite a lot and have for quite some time.
It's silly the way there is a distinction between male and female tournaments. eSports is one of the few actual sports where females have same possibility to be as successful as males. I loathe the guys and girls who organize female only tournaments. That's like making black only tournaments. I guess there are korean only tournaments, but that's a nationality.
Anyway, it's stupid. But now, there are in fact female only tournaments so I consider it to be a good move by quantic if flo is indeed performing highly in female only tourneys. However, it is stupid, it's not like the rest of the tournaments are male only.
GL to quantic anyway, I hope she will be able to perform on a _real_ level soon, otherwise you've lost one supporter!
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Isn't the point of a team to get publicity for their sponsors? I mean, EG didn't sign IdrA so they can't support some lofty noble goal of "esports." They signed him because he's a great player that gets people to watch his games, meaning more attention for EG, meaning more attention for their sponsors.
Quantic signed Flo because she's a good player who will get people to watch her games, meaning more attention for Quantic, meaning more attention for their sponsors.
Why is one a stunt and the other not a stunt?
Female only tournaments aren't causing isolation at all. Neither Flo nor Aphrodite would have been picked up by a team without a female only tournament, and now that they are on big teams, they have more opportunities to get better and go to big mixed gender tournaments. It also gives female players role models to say "wow, I can totally do that to," like IdrA playing in Korea gave foreigners a "wow, we can make it in Starcraft" model.
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lol sick interview, literally - she was sick. I love flo's smile call me a weirdo, but its nice.
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gratz Flo and Quantic Flo has to be one of the best female players out there and from interviews etc ive seen she seems very motivated and nice. Gl to both!
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cool news hope she does well 
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On December 22 2011 16:00 omgryebread wrote:
Isn't the point of a team to get publicity for their sponsors? I mean, EG didn't sign IdrA so they can't support some lofty noble goal of "esports." They signed him because he's a great player that gets people to watch his games, meaning more attention for EG, meaning more attention for their sponsors.
Quantic signed Flo because she's a good player who will get people to watch her games, meaning more attention for Quantic, meaning more attention for their sponsors.
Why is one a stunt and the other not a stunt?
Female only tournaments aren't causing isolation at all. Neither Flo nor Aphrodite would have been picked up by a team without a female only tournament, and now that they are on big teams, they have more opportunities to get better and go to big mixed gender tournaments. It also gives female players role models to say "wow, I can totally do that to," like IdrA playing in Korea gave foreigners a "wow, we can make it in Starcraft" model.
The point is, eSports doesn't _need_ female players, it needs good players. (I'm not saying females can't be good). I couldn't care less wether the player is male or female, black or white, tall or short - as long as the games are entertaining and the person isn't a complete ass he or she has got my support. I feel it's a slap in the face with girl only tournaments. Anyway! I'm sorry, I will be quiet now. I'm sure Flo will be able to participate on a super high level, but until then, I'll lay my quantic support on ice.
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EPT
