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Osaka27178 Posts
"Female only tournaments in a non gender advantage sport will absolutely fizzle out there is little to no appeal to watching that"
You said there was no appeal in watching it. That, combined with calling it a "novelty" gives the impression that you don't like them. And again, I say that it isn't a stunt because those male players cannot enter female tournaments. Thus, your argument about other, better, male gamers is irrelevant.
Please use punctuation, type words out fully, and try a capital letter or two when you type if you want to be taken seriously. Nowhere did I get personal with you, and by the end of your post I can literally see the froth dripping off the screen.
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On December 22 2011 16:06 BloodThirsty wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 15:47 Manifesto7 wrote:On December 22 2011 15:36 BloodThirsty wrote:On December 22 2011 15:27 Manifesto7 wrote:
Are any of those players going to be able to represent the team at female-only tournaments? No? Then it isn't a stunt. I agree with you but how much value does a female only tournament hold up after the novelty runs out of it? I am being realistic here that with all gender tournaments I.E. MLG a female tournament just feels like a novelty that will run out rather fast in ESports, Especially since ESports relatively is a small sport as it is. Also seeing as how gender yields no difference in performance or genetics then the novelty will surely run out fast. This isn't like the NBA and WNBA where woman clearly for genetic reasons cannot compete with males on a pro level. Now if a woman were to win MLG that would be an incredible thing. But this certainly to some degree is a "stunt" in the sense its a business move. If we are talking strictly on talent then this is clearly absolutely a stunt move. If you factor into marketability and maybe the few female only tournaments that may arise in the beginning the coverage it will provide for quantic then sure it'll be okay. But no way female only tournaments can on a consistent basis season in and out pull in sponsorships or compete with bigger tournaments such as MLG. I am not being mean here either I think its great for woman to get involved in this as it just brings more attention. But to some degree to say its not a stunt from a business standpoint is kind of silly. Another super star player regardless male or female would be a better move here then if we are saying it isnt a stunt as putting a purely better talented player to make it on stage at MLG event or other tournament would yield a much better gain. Female only tournaments in a non gender advantage sport will absolutely fizzle out there is little to no appeal to watching that from my perspective from how the community has reacted then it would be to watch Naniwa and Nestea play. Or MC and idra go at it and so on. Your entire point is moot since there are still female only events. It doesn't matter whether you like them or not, they exist. End of story. Because they exist, Quantic can enter their female roster into it. With no females on their roster, they cannot participate. The rest of your post about competing with MLG blah blah is completely off track, since that is not the prerequisite for success. On December 22 2011 15:37 Tabula`Rasa wrote:On December 22 2011 15:27 Manifesto7 wrote:
Are any of those players going to be able to represent the team at female-only tournaments? No? Then it isn't a stunt. Does anybody or team care about female tournaments? That's not where the money and glory is, so your argument is void. That being said, teams are a business and need to keep afloat. If it's a good marketing opportunity, then everyone wins. Not sure why people are so hung up on marketing gimmicks. Every business needs them. At least Flo looks like a nice, decent girl who doesn't come across as playing the sex card to get where she wants. Apparently they do, since they just wrapped one up with a pretty decent prize pool. Just because you don't like / don't care about them doesn't invalidate their existence. As long as their are events, there is room for her on the Quantic roster. u wanna tell me at one point did i say i didnt like them? i know its hard to read i may say they arent a good idea never did i saw RAWR RAWR RAWR I HATE FEMALE ONLY EVENTS just being realistic and stating u cant argue it isnt a stunt move to pick up her a female player who clearly isnt more talented then some of the best male players out there that arent on teams. So for one u can stop putting words in my mouth and get off ur mighty horse. I havent gotten personal at all on this topic im merely stating what it is.
What's so hard to understand? As long there is a market for female only tournaments (which it evidently is judging by recent prize pools) then there's absolutely no stunt to pick up one of the best female players. It's not rocket science. You must have hated quantic picking up destiny as well then?
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Ya. Obviously women's lack of the Y chromosome makes them incapable of playing SC2 successfully, because the Y chromosome is well known to be the RTS and peeing while standing up and spelling things in the snow chromosome. So sorry Flo. Any attempt to train and improve your skill vs a pretty good team roster will flounder on the rocks of genetic cruelty.
/sarcasm
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Congratz Flo! Hope you do well with your new team
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I was wondering how long it would take for a big team to pick her up. Great to see quantic did  gl to her!
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On December 22 2011 16:18 nam nam wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 16:06 BloodThirsty wrote:On December 22 2011 15:47 Manifesto7 wrote:On December 22 2011 15:36 BloodThirsty wrote:On December 22 2011 15:27 Manifesto7 wrote:
Are any of those players going to be able to represent the team at female-only tournaments? No? Then it isn't a stunt. I agree with you but how much value does a female only tournament hold up after the novelty runs out of it? I am being realistic here that with all gender tournaments I.E. MLG a female tournament just feels like a novelty that will run out rather fast in ESports, Especially since ESports relatively is a small sport as it is. Also seeing as how gender yields no difference in performance or genetics then the novelty will surely run out fast. This isn't like the NBA and WNBA where woman clearly for genetic reasons cannot compete with males on a pro level. Now if a woman were to win MLG that would be an incredible thing. But this certainly to some degree is a "stunt" in the sense its a business move. If we are talking strictly on talent then this is clearly absolutely a stunt move. If you factor into marketability and maybe the few female only tournaments that may arise in the beginning the coverage it will provide for quantic then sure it'll be okay. But no way female only tournaments can on a consistent basis season in and out pull in sponsorships or compete with bigger tournaments such as MLG. I am not being mean here either I think its great for woman to get involved in this as it just brings more attention. But to some degree to say its not a stunt from a business standpoint is kind of silly. Another super star player regardless male or female would be a better move here then if we are saying it isnt a stunt as putting a purely better talented player to make it on stage at MLG event or other tournament would yield a much better gain. Female only tournaments in a non gender advantage sport will absolutely fizzle out there is little to no appeal to watching that from my perspective from how the community has reacted then it would be to watch Naniwa and Nestea play. Or MC and idra go at it and so on. Your entire point is moot since there are still female only events. It doesn't matter whether you like them or not, they exist. End of story. Because they exist, Quantic can enter their female roster into it. With no females on their roster, they cannot participate. The rest of your post about competing with MLG blah blah is completely off track, since that is not the prerequisite for success. On December 22 2011 15:37 Tabula`Rasa wrote:On December 22 2011 15:27 Manifesto7 wrote:
Are any of those players going to be able to represent the team at female-only tournaments? No? Then it isn't a stunt. Does anybody or team care about female tournaments? That's not where the money and glory is, so your argument is void. That being said, teams are a business and need to keep afloat. If it's a good marketing opportunity, then everyone wins. Not sure why people are so hung up on marketing gimmicks. Every business needs them. At least Flo looks like a nice, decent girl who doesn't come across as playing the sex card to get where she wants. Apparently they do, since they just wrapped one up with a pretty decent prize pool. Just because you don't like / don't care about them doesn't invalidate their existence. As long as their are events, there is room for her on the Quantic roster. u wanna tell me at one point did i say i didnt like them? i know its hard to read i may say they arent a good idea never did i saw RAWR RAWR RAWR I HATE FEMALE ONLY EVENTS just being realistic and stating u cant argue it isnt a stunt move to pick up her a female player who clearly isnt more talented then some of the best male players out there that arent on teams. So for one u can stop putting words in my mouth and get off ur mighty horse. I havent gotten personal at all on this topic im merely stating what it is. What's so hard to understand? As long there is a market for female only tournaments (which it evidently is judging by recent prize pools) then there's absolutely no stunt to pick up one of the best female players. It's not rocket science. You must have hated quantic picking up destiny as well then?
I just want to go on record as saying that yes, I watched the Zowie Divina tournament, as did many others, so there is an audience for female-only tournaments even if it's not as glamorous or prestigious as the major tournies.
Congrats to Flo, looking forward to seeing more of her and hope that being with Quantic can help her improve a lot.
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On December 22 2011 16:05 sirkyan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 16:00 omgryebread wrote:
Isn't the point of a team to get publicity for their sponsors? I mean, EG didn't sign IdrA so they can't support some lofty noble goal of "esports." They signed him because he's a great player that gets people to watch his games, meaning more attention for EG, meaning more attention for their sponsors.
Quantic signed Flo because she's a good player who will get people to watch her games, meaning more attention for Quantic, meaning more attention for their sponsors.
Why is one a stunt and the other not a stunt?
Female only tournaments aren't causing isolation at all. Neither Flo nor Aphrodite would have been picked up by a team without a female only tournament, and now that they are on big teams, they have more opportunities to get better and go to big mixed gender tournaments. It also gives female players role models to say "wow, I can totally do that to," like IdrA playing in Korea gave foreigners a "wow, we can make it in Starcraft" model. The point is, eSports doesn't _need_ female players, it needs good players. (I'm not saying females can't be good). I couldn't care less wether the player is male or female, black or white, tall or short - as long as the games are entertaining and the person isn't a complete ass he or she has got my support. I feel it's a slap in the face with girl only tournaments. Anyway! I'm sorry, I will be quiet now. I'm sure Flo will be able to participate on a super high level, but until then, I'll lay my quantic support on ice. Let's assume that there is no biological difference in Starcraft 2 ability between the sexes. In theory, esports should have perfect gender parity, within the margin of error of course. You cannot say that women are equally capable and that there are no barriers to women (Yes, lack of motivation to be a progamer on the part of women is a barrier, because that motivation is discouraged in a number of ways.)
Imagine if you placed some arbitrary restriction on Starcraft 2 players, for example no one with the family name Lim could be a pro. Esports would certainly be hurt, since you'd lose BoxeR and NesTea. There's an easy fix to that, remove the restriction on the name.
There is an arbitrary restriction on sex in Starcraft 2. It's not an explicit restriction, it's one enforced by sexism, traditional gender roles (often from outside the esports community), and anti-feminism kneejerk (I'd argue that a female player would have to do more to prove herself to get community acceptance than a male gamer would.) Because it's not an explicit restriction, it's much harder to get over, and it will require encouraging female gamers even if that's unfair to male gamers. Which it's not, since there is no actual limit to the number of progamers. If Quantic wants a really awesome GM player out there, their pickup of Flo did not prevent that. Eventually, hopefully, we'll have gender parity, and teams won't need to favor female players, and their won't need to be female-only tournaments.
Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "eSports" when you say it doesn't need female players. Esports is made up of the various organizations and players that participate. I normally wouldn't bother watching Losira crush some random player in an MLG, but I did because I wanted to see the first female on the main stage at an MLG. That certainly benefited MLG and Check6, so I'm not sure how that didn't help eSports.
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Congratulation Flo! She is going to kick ass and chew bubblegum! (...and she's all out of gum).
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Really don't understand all the controversy here. If she was some gold player I could see it, but everything in her track record indicates that she is around the same level as destiny, and nobody complained when he was picked up. As others have said, even if small, there are female only tournaments, so picking up the best non-korean female gamer is a good idea.
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Haters going to hate. She may not be the best player destroying GMs left and right, but this is still good for starcraft.
Someone might have mentioned this already, but players like Idra, nony, etc. were picked up by BW teams even though there were more skilled koreans; the act of bringing foreigners certainly didn't hurt esports at all.
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Congrats Flo!! Definitely adding you to my stream watching list of Terrans. Hope to see you at future tournaments!
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flo is awesome. gl to her in the future
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Whoa! Congratulations Flo!!
Was cheering for you at the Zowie tournament in China ;-)
Quantic fighting~
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congratz I've actually seen Flo play before and she is pretty good
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whats with every female sc2 player playing terran. they seem to be much smarter than their male counterparts :D
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On December 22 2011 16:45 BloodThirsty wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 16:16 Manifesto7 wrote:
"Female only tournaments in a non gender advantage sport will absolutely fizzle out there is little to no appeal to watching that"
You said there was no appeal in watching it. That, combined with calling it a "novelty" gives the impression that you don't like them. And again, I say that it isn't a stunt because those male players cannot enter female tournaments. Thus, your argument about other, better, male gamers is irrelevant.
Please use punctuation, type words out fully, and try a capital letter or two when you type if you want to be taken seriously. Nowhere did I get personal with you, and by the end of your post I can literally see the froth dripping off the screen. what? lol in no way am i even remotely angry at all so dunno where this "froth dripping off the screen" is coming from unless you just assume anyone who types without using punctuation must be ready to feast on the nerds on the internet. All good I'll stop with this post since clearly my opinion has offended you to the point where your posts go from your statements and opinions as in a normal argument to assuming to being offended by how i type and that i want to eat your brains or something from all this furious typing. Rawrrrr look how angry i am from all this forum posting rawrrrr. Night
How old are you?
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yes! go flo, the new female hope! take home a trophy in 2012!
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WHAT!!!!!!!!!!! sent her to KOREA!!!!!!!!!!
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EPT
