EPTTL Map Contest Voting! - Page 8
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ZJAT
United States83 Posts
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AEsgaims
United States237 Posts
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Apom
France655 Posts
Burning Altar Orange and green is a dubious mix in my opinion (although much better than the former orange/green/purple mix, that was flat-out wrong). From a gameplay perspective, there is a lot of space to manoeuver air units around the edge of the map, and all mineral locations are next to said map edges (there are none cloe to the center). I personnally feel that Mutalisks are abusive at all levels of play above silver (i.e. when players actually know how to retreat), and a map that encourages them that much is not one I would like to see on ladder. Also, the watchtowers are activated by any single unit moving straight from your base to your opponent's base, which does not make them a very interesting contention point. One positive note though : split map play is more pleasant and interesting than on all 4p mirrored maps from Blizzard. Cloud Kingdom It's dark, man. It's really dark. My opponent could not see anything in the fog of war (which does not make sending scouts easy). While that specific issue did not trouble me directly (different monitor/settings ?), the minimap was still completely black. While we are in the aesthetics-that-impact-gameplay-issues, I would like to point out that the ramp decals make it difficult to read where the actual ramp begins and ends. In terms of layout, the corner expansions will only be taken out of desperation, or irrepentant sneakiness. Lastly, the large number of parallel paths that can be used to cross the map lends itself to base race scenarios a bit too much to my taste. Korhal Compound The large white tiles close to the starting positions are too bright, and unblended - I found them quite distracting. Other aesthetics are well-done and pleasant. I found the varying expansion heights to be well-balanced and provide good gameplay features. However, their overall layout essentially forces a counter-clockwise expansion pattern : other maps do a better job at providing competitive alternatives in varying directions. While I do not consider this to be an issue for isolated games or infrequent ladder play, it could cause some boredom in the not-so-long term. Nothing ever happens in the central crater. Once the game reaches 3-base stage, armies don't even walk through it anymore, which makes the Xel'Naga tower kind of pointless since their primary function is to oversee the crater. Ohana I liked this map a lot. It feels like what Bel'Shir Beach should have been, and also reminds me of some old Total Annihilation map. It looks good and offers a lot of possibilities in terms of expansion patterns. I particularly liked that there are two entrances to the natural expansion (one of them being from lower ground, and blocked by rocks - which is fine). While I see how this may cause some QQ from pro or pretend-to-be-pro players, I personnally am of the opinion that unbreachable expansions à la Shakuras Plateau are boring. One aesthetical grievance : there is a height issue, in the natural expansions, that makes resource patches look bad. Sanctuary I will start by saying that pulling off the BW "Aiur" theme in Starcraft II is rarely as well-done as this. However, as much as I appreciate every attempt at growing out of the 2/4p state of mind, there is too much rotational imbalance on this map. The player who is in the clockwise position has significantly worse options for a third base, and is more vulnerable to drops. Haven's Lagoon While this map is still not as technically detailed as the other contenders, the overhaul that it was given after the finalists' anouncement has certainly made it good enough for ladder. I generally like that someone tried 2p mirrored, so bonus points for that. I'm not against the more-open-than-usual natural expansion. However, it does feel like going past 2 bases is hard (I doubt we will ever see it in competitive PvP). It's probably good enough for ladder play up to mid-platinum, not so sure after that. Finally, the mineral location right between the two main bases is really pointless. Twilight Peaks I found the lush, greener-than-thou trees to be out of place on a twilight planet. The paler grass, although unusual as well, looks better, and is a nice variation from the usual Shakuras tileset. In gameplay terms, I found the map balanced and well laid out : it's quite classical, in the sense that while nothing particularly spectacular stood out, I did not find any clear flaw either. My final ranking 1. Ohana 2. Twilight Peaks 3. Korhal Compound and Haven's Lagoon (tied) The rest I would not want on ladder anyways, so I'm not going to rank them. | ||
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Samro225am
Germany982 Posts
On December 16 2011 01:55 Wherewolf wrote: Some stats I tried to put together. I did this by hand so expect mistakes. So many mirrors that a lot of the matchup win stats are kind of pointless, especially later on. Both semis, 3 Ro8s, and 3 Ro16s were mirrors. + Show Spoiler [Non-Mirror Match-up Results] + Round of 512 (Bo1) Ohana: -PvZ --- PvT - ZvT 16-16 / 7-9 / 12-4 [Remember that many got byes in this round] Round of 256 (Bo1) Korhal Compound: -PvZ ---- PvT ----- ZvT 15-16 / 10-15 / 23-11 Round of 128 (Bo1) Haven's Lagoon: PvZ - PvT - ZvT 8-8 / 3-5 / 8-5 Round of 64 (Bo1) Twilight Peaks: PvZ - PvT - ZvT 3-4 / 2-4 / 3-5 Round of 32 (Bo1) Burning Altar: PvZ - PvT - ZvT 2-2 / 0-2 / 2-4 Round of 16 to Finals (Bo3/5) Burning Altar: PvZ - PvT - ZvT 1-0 / 0-1 / 0-1 Cloud Kingdom: PvZ - PvT - ZvT 2-0 / 1-0 / 1-1 Haven's Lagoon: PvZ - PvT - ZvT 1-0 / 0-1 / 0-2 Korhal Compound: PvZ - PvT - ZvT 1-0 / 1-1 / 0-0 Ohana: PvZ - PvT - ZvT 1-0 / 1-0 / 0-0 Sanctuary: PvZ - PvT - ZvT 0-1 / 1-0 / 1-0 Twilight Peaks: Unplayed from Ro2 to Ro32 + Show Spoiler [Overall Results] + Total games played includes mirrors. Burning Altar: Total games played: 21 PvZ - PvT - ZvT 3-2 / 0-3 / 2-5 Cloud Kingdom: Total games played: 8 PvZ - PvT - ZvT 2-0 / 1-0 / 1-1 Haven's Lagoon: Total games played: 71 PvZ - PvT - ZvT 9-8 / 3-6 / 8-7 Korhal Compound: Total games played: 125 -PvZ ---- PvT ----- ZvT 16-16 / 11-16 / 23-11 Ohana: Total games played: 105 -PvZ --- PvT - ZvT 17-16 / 8-9 / 12-4 Sanctuary: Total games played: 7 PvZ - PvT - ZvT 0-1 / 1-0 / 1-0 Twilight Peaks: Total games played: 31 PvZ - PvT - ZvT 3-4 / 2-4 / 3-5 + Show Spoiler [Other] + Total games played overall: 368 Burning Altar was chosen by players 5 times 1 as P vT 1 as P vZ 1 as T vT 2 as T vZ Cloud Kingdom wasn't chosen by players (was first map in Ro16, not picked after) Haven's Lagoon was chosen by players 7 times. 2 as P vP 1 as T vP 2 as T vT 1 as T vZ 1 as Z vP Korhal Compound was chosen by players 2 times. 1 as P vT 1 as P vZ Ohana was chosen by players 6 times. 1 as P vP 1 as P vZ 1 as T vP 3 as T vT Sanctuary was chosen by players 3 times. 1 as P vT 1 as T vT 1 as Z vT Twilight Peaks wasn't chosen by players (was bo1 map in Ro64, not picked after) Incredibly small number of games on some maps  thanks so much for putting these number together. watched all Round5 games on Burning Altar now, number seems to be correct. in general the seven maps seem to provide balanced matches. you cannot say much about some maps and matchups. the only thing that bothers me is ZvT on Ohana and Korhal Compound. + Show Spoiler + Korhal Compound: Total games played: 125 ZvT 23-11 Ohana: Total games played: 105 ZvT 12-4 Imba? will have to see the matches, but these numbers are different than i would have expected. I rather expected less Terran wins on Lagoon, because the third is a bit difficult - but i guess the numbers are balanced because of shorter games... we really need a statistic on playtime, too  | ||
The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
Although, I would not mind Cloud kingdom. | ||
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Supreme1337
1 Post
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Wherewolf
United States353 Posts
If I have time later I'll see if I can do it. From what I saw in the replays I watched, most games were standard two base aggression that outright won or did enough damage to make it a onesided game after. 3rds-5ths hardly ever came into play.. | ||
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Samro225am
Germany982 Posts
On December 16 2011 05:59 Wherewolf wrote: Playtime would be very painful to do I think ;_; If I have time later I'll see if I can do it. From what I saw in the replays I watched, most games were standard two base aggression that outright won or did enough damage to make it a onesided game after. 3rds-5ths hardly ever came into play.. are you talking about a specific map? edit: R5 - Burning Altar - average playtime close spawn: Ø 19.8min cross spawn: Ø 24.8min shortest game: 10min PvP in close position longest game: 34min PvZ in close position (replay in OP iirc) | ||
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PopcornColonel
United States769 Posts
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Kamikiri
United States1319 Posts
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Steamboatlol
United States161 Posts
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Wherewolf
United States353 Posts
I think that people like to use more 1/2 base aggression when unfamiliar with a map. | ||
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Ellessar_GR
United States37 Posts
-You can go air harass and drops easy because of all the free space around it. However the small distances through the center makes this a bit dangerous if you just go harass. -Easy natural and quite secured third base, so it is macro friendly. -You can also easily rush since distances are not huge. I also like you can hide prosy near the natural, and also can easy cannon rush from the low ground with a pylon. -Also nice rock placement. | ||
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FoxyMayhem
624 Posts
After watching some of the replays, my vote goes to Cloud Kingdom. Not just because that game was epic, but because how much that map forces unit positioning into the front, and it's expansion progression. | ||
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EdSlyB
Portugal1621 Posts
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Samro225am
Germany982 Posts
On December 16 2011 06:19 Wherewolf wrote: I wasn't really thinking of a specific one, but I think had notable differences in average game length. Burning Altar usually got into later games, people favored two base on Haven I believe and Sanctuary because the thirds are a bit unique. TvPs I watched had a lot of 1-1-1s even on the bigger maps, and even the TvTs I saw were decided by early Banshees usually. I felt like people used a lot of strategies that don't depend on the maps much when possible. The finals generally had short games for instance. (proxy stargate attempt, 1-1-1, game 3/4 were longer, then 2rax aggression win) I think that people like to use more 1/2 base aggression when unfamiliar with a map. Seems like players play shorter, straight forward or rather short games on new maps. So the number of longer games and big number of multi-expansion games shows the potential of Burning Altar, i guess. the tank issue was adressed and is solved, btw, as part of a general update (dropissue, pathing, visual things) + Show Spoiler + First and foremost I adress the tank drop issue. For me it is important to conserve tank drop options, but do not make it imba in any way. most important part is the drop pod. now it is easily defendable with two spinecrawler OR two queens + spinecrawler: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0owvD.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/15bPX.jpg) the area of hit-able area in the main is also drastically decreased in order to make sure there won't be anything like Alive's cliff tank-drop abuse. Marines signify the tank's reach: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8NQZ8.jpg) please note that Reapers and Colossi are still able to walk up the main's cliffs. Link to the map's thread Looking forward to any feedback and more replays! | ||
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ladyumbra
Canada1699 Posts
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
On December 16 2011 08:09 ladyumbra wrote: I need to go over those replays, all I remember of TL open is terrans abusing the ever loving heck out of the ledges on burning altar. The first thing I thought playing practice games on that map is: Fucking tank drop on that ledge above third. | ||
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MtlGuitarist97
United States1539 Posts
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phathom321
United States1730 Posts
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