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On December 15 2011 02:17 zala2023 wrote:
"Greg Fields is an angel compared to Naniwa"
lold at this comment
at least idra takes the game seriously and only start bming/ranting after he loses, naniwa can learn from that
Like saying "fuck you" to Mana in game or refusing to play the 2nd game vs Nerchio during TL Open.
Oh yeah.
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On December 15 2011 03:26 Blasterion wrote:
I think we should just admit that there is cultural disparities, I am not very sure how the foreigners views it, so I can only explain things on my basis, but here in the East, Respect for your opponent, and what you do is pretty important. And disrespect and this case, Naniwa made a mockery of his match, and there for his opponent. It's pretty serious.
Still we see manner-nexuses and manner mules in GSL? I don't get how that goes along with the respect your opponent philosophy.
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This hate is absurd. I do not understand the outrage. He threw one game that doesn't matter. He was forced to play a game thast he didn't want to play at a point when he was morally and mnetally defeated. You wouldn't want to play that game, he just took it a bit farther than normal. At least he didn't just start the game and GG. He doesn't deserve this hate, all he wants to do is be the best. People need to back off
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On December 15 2011 02:24 UnholyRai wrote:
oh god this whole event is so embarrassing for the koreans.
I agree with this. I respect the Korean culture, but to me it does not make any sense that the Korean scene is so upset about what happend.
Naniwa made a mistake. This happens, people make mistakes. Should he be punished for his mistake? That's up to GOM TV.
But why be so outraged about what happend? Why not give the person at fault a change to explain himself and maybe, if he feels it's necessary, let him apologies? Why act outraged? Acting outraged has never ever helped anyone. Where's the sense of forgiving and moving on?
If you are holding a GLOBAL tournament, try finding a balance between the different cultures. If you're holding a GLOBAL event, do not enforce Korean culture style punishment, but try and find a road in the middle.
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United Arab Emirates1141 Posts
On December 13 2011 22:42 Darkkal wrote:
Jesus fucking christ how much drama is this one game going to create? First, using the Lord's name like that is not going to get you anywhere in life. Secondly, this is a big deal obviously. Koreans are the original creators of Esports, and the longest in the business. They obviously know how to run E-sports and maintain the professionalism. MAking a mockery of that, then being unapologetic in the first interview after the game = fail.
Alas he finally apologised, so that's a first step to redemption.
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On December 15 2011 03:42 Delicious Insanity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:24 UnholyRai wrote:
oh god this whole event is so embarrassing for the koreans. I agree with this. I respect the Korean culture, but to me it does not make any sense that the Korean scene is so upset about what happend. Naniwa made a mistake. This happens, people make mistakes. Should he be punished for his mistake? That's up to GOM TV. But why be so outraged about what happend? Why not give the person at fault a change to explain himself and maybe, if he feels it's necessary, let him apologies? Why act outraged? Acting outraged has never ever helped anyone. Where's the sense of forgiving and moving on? If you are holding a GLOBAL tournament, try finding a balance between the different cultures. If you're holding a GLOBAL event, do not enforce Korean culture style punishment, but try and find a road in the middle.
I would be outraged if there are plenty of people in my country more than qualified to get Code A and Code S spots, then GOM goes out of their way to give them away to foreigners. One of said foreigners is something like 0-10 in GSL, has a Code S spot from a foreign tournament, and can't even have the decency to try in a tournament he should be honored to play in.
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Naniwa must be in an abyss now reflecting, or he better be if hes not.
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On December 15 2011 02:53 Spiders wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:27 Flowjo wrote:On December 15 2011 02:24 UnholyRai wrote:
oh god this whole event is so embarrassing for the koreans, they need to stop overreacting. jesus christ, they're acting as if he killed a child or something. cause if Naniwa killed a child, first thing first is to take away the Code S? I think GOMTV made the right choice, he completely disrespected Gom and (some) fans They first disrespected him by having a terrible tournament format with useless games. And he didn't disrespect anyone, he played the game he wanted to play.
So the MSL and OSL had terrible tournament formats with useless games? The MLB season? The World Cup? The NFL, NHL, NBA? Any sports league in the entire world?
Such utter and complete rubbish reasoning.
In fact the whole idea that a game is "useless" because it won't result in additional money is a symptom of the sad decline of western culture.
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I understand people are mad about this rightfully so, but lets just remember it was just a mistake by someone that did not realize how important it was to a lot of other people. Lets at least give him another chance he only did it 1 game now everyone knows you can not do this including him so lets just move on.
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After reading the comments in this thread, I understand Naniwa's behavior slightly better.
I had a similar kneejerk reaction to his behavior as the writer of this article. Two of my favorite players were about to play what had potential to be an epic game, but Naniwa seemed to just be spitting in the face of both his opponent and the league when he probe rushed like that. However, now I guess I can see it a little bit better from his perspective. He was mentally and physically exhausted, and forced to play a game he wanted nothing to do with. Yes, professional gaming is a rough thing to get into, and a progamer often times has to make sacrifices for his fans, but I've made worse decisions under situations of stress, pressure, and disappointment.
Everyone is trashing him far too much for this, and I honestly think it's partially because he's a foreigner. In homogenous societies like Korea, doing something rude does not only make you a rude person, but it also makes every single member of your race a rude person. Therefore, people's perceptions on the foreign community are largely decided before any foreigner even steps off the plane. In most of these societies, with the trend to look at foreigners in this light, every foreigner is constantly walking on a tightrope with broken glass underneath. One small misstep and you've completely demolished your reputation because you lived up to exactly what they expected.
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koreans seem to be totally immature here... very sad =[
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Korean culture : progamers must be forced to play even if there is no prize money or chance of proceeding in the tournament, purely for our amusement, like circus monkeys.
The way Nestea practised "so hard" for this game is a joke in my opinion. It has been said 100 times, but is a 100% fact that the Koreans over-reacted about 5 fold on this one.
Its unusual, perhaps odd, perhaps lazy, perhaps a bit unexpected but it is nowhere near the kind of flame I am seeing. Losing Code S was perhaps 5-fold overreaction, but reading those Korean "tweets", at least 20 fold overreaction. Of course he is a pr0, thats why he left that circus-monkey game!
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This farce is making me all giddy. Everyone involved seem to be overreacting and blowing it way out of proportions. I'm amused.
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Why does the article suggest that a pro-gamer and his moral compass is intertwined?
Can't a pro-gamer be morally corrupt with out loosing his title as a pro-gamer?
I think that the cultural barrier is making itself heard.
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On December 15 2011 21:45 TorrentOfPoop wrote:
Korean culture : progamers must be forced to play even if there is no prize money or chance of proceeding in the tournament, purely for our amusement, like circus monkeys.
The way Nestea practised "so hard" for this game is a joke in my opinion. It has been said 100 times, but is a 100% fact that the Koreans over-reacted about 5 fold on this one.
Its unusual, perhaps odd, perhaps lazy, perhaps a bit unexpected but it is nowhere near the kind of flame I am seeing. Losing Code S was perhaps 5-fold overreaction, but reading those Korean "tweets", at least 20 fold overreaction. Of course he is a pr0, thats why he left that circus-monkey game!
This.
We can only hope that GOM rethinks the whole situation.
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On December 15 2011 21:37 The Void wrote:
koreans seem to be totally immature here... very sad =[
Europeans seems to be giant hypocritical crybabies.
Ya, shitty inductive reasoning can go both ways.
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On December 16 2011 03:23 Hubris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 21:37 The Void wrote:
koreans seem to be totally immature here... very sad =[
Europeans seem to be hypocritical crybabies.
Ya, shitty inductive reasoning can go both ways.
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On December 15 2011 22:06 archonOOid wrote:
Why does the article suggest that a pro-gamer and his moral compass is intertwined?
Can't a pro-gamer be morally corrupt with out loosing his title as a pro-gamer?
I think that the cultural barrier is making itself heard.
He can be morally corrupt, behind closed doors, yes... but he should not be PUBLICLY. Pro-gamer means professional gamer. Thus, behaving unprofessionally disqualifies you from being considered a professional. If you aren't approaching gaming as a professional, then you aren't a pro-gamer, you are just a gamer... and in Naniwa's case, you are actually a childish gamer. So, the article is correct in claiming that Naniwa does not deserve to be considered a pro-gamer based on his actions during that game. However, since he has now made a public and reasonably professional apology (whether he truly believes in it or not), he is on his way to redeeming himself from his childish behaviour and recognizing that his games aren't just about him and his desire to win; there's more to it than that and I am glad he has accepted it (I don't care much for whether he believes it to be true. So long as he acknowledges it and changes his behaviour to reflect professionalism, it's good for SC2, E-Sports and its fans).
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Sweden4042 Posts
I just got to ask so, sorry for highjacking this thread, but what drama at MLG Providence?
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On December 18 2011 05:06 Kahuna. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 22:06 archonOOid wrote:
Why does the article suggest that a pro-gamer and his moral compass is intertwined?
Can't a pro-gamer be morally corrupt with out loosing his title as a pro-gamer?
I think that the cultural barrier is making itself heard. He can be morally corrupt, behind closed doors, yes... but he should not be PUBLICLY. Pro-gamer means professional gamer. Thus, behaving unprofessionally disqualifies you from being considered a professional. If you aren't approaching gaming as a professional, then you aren't a pro-gamer, you are just a gamer... and in Naniwa's case, you are actually a childish gamer. So, the article is correct in claiming that Naniwa does not deserve to be considered a pro-gamer based on his actions during that game. However, since he has now made a public and reasonably professional apology (whether he truly believes in it or not), he is on his way to redeeming himself from his childish behaviour and recognizing that his games aren't just about him and his desire to win; there's more to it than that and I am glad he has accepted it (I don't care much for whether he believes it to be true. So long as he acknowledges it and changes his behaviour to reflect professionalism, it's good for SC2, E-Sports and its fans).
Personally I would define a pro-gamer as one who has gaming as his profession, regardless of maturity. But I guess that is a question of how you interpret the term.
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EPT
