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On December 10 2011 02:42 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 02:12 Sapphire.lux wrote:Yeah, judge a player by what he does on ladder, while streaming. That's very smart.  Yeah, judge a player by what he does on ladder, while streaming, only when his winning. Like the hype Stephano, Hero had. When they lose it's just practice. Double standard all the way.
You do realize that both ways of judging someone are equally retarded? Overhype is just as stupid as nitpicking on single ladder games.
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I hope people saying "omg he lost to X player, with X player being a very good progamer, he's not that good" are trolling or something. Welcome to sc2 where anyone can take a game off of anyone
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On December 10 2011 02:50 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 02:46 shadymmj wrote:On December 10 2011 02:42 ceaRshaf wrote:On December 10 2011 02:12 Sapphire.lux wrote:Yeah, judge a player by what he does on ladder, while streaming. That's very smart. Yeah, judge a player by what he does on ladder, while streaming, only when his winning. Like the hype Stephano, Hero had. When they lose it's just practice. Double standard all the way. unfortunately for your argument he has also cleaned house in code A 6-0 against 3 strong opponents, something which the other two people you mentioned have never done. Unfortunately that's not the point. The idea is that some people hype players when they want to but the same principle does not apply when they don't like it. And btw, by your argument do you imply that forGG must be better than Stephano or HerO? That is kinda superficial isn't it?
it's pointless to hype players off ladder games, only actual showings.
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On December 10 2011 02:50 Linwelin wrote:
I hope people saying "omg he lost to X player, with X player being a very good progamer, he's not that good" are trolling or something. Welcome to sc2 where anyone can take a game off of anyone
This! Lol he goes on a rampage last night loosing like 2-4 games the entire time I was watching(About2 and a half hours maybe more) and he loses one stupid game against Stephano and every one is "OMG see its all just hype he lost he can lose!"
That is just mind blowing. Though I agree to an extent he is a bit overhyped at the moment. 2-0'ing his way to Code S is very impressive but thats only 3 bo3's not nearly enough to hype him as unstoppable or a god etc.
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Overhype generates nitpicking...it's just the nature of things. Forgg is really good though.
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On December 10 2011 03:00 dmnum wrote:
Overhype generates nitpicking...it's just the nature of things. Forgg is really good though.
Pretty much!
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Yeah, I've basically agreed that he's not a top 3 terran yet, but I just see so much potential in him. Once he gets better game sense it'll be very interesting to see how he compares to MVP/MMA/Jjakji. But people should realize that he is still a code S player.
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Just stop saying shit based on ladder. If you can't see how good his play is by watching you're an idiot but don't hype him by ladder. Hype him by his tourney results.
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On December 10 2011 02:33 kineticSYN wrote:
i acknowledge that forgg is being way too hyped right now, but seriously..
he's laddering and streaming, who honestly thinks he's giving half a shit? he's doing the same exact builds over and over and simply keeping mechanics sharp, the fact that almost everyone loses to this shit nonstop is lolworthy
no point giving credit or taking away credit from whatever is going on, but if anyone thinks a korean pro is gonna showcase how he really plays/other strats to the world, especially know that he's in code s...
no, just no.
Pretty much this. I find it hilarious that he can abuse a combination of hellions and banshees to just roll over an opponent within 15 minutes. His unit control is just amazing to watch, we should be glad that we're able to watch his FPVODs.
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On December 09 2011 23:49 JesusOurSaviour wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 23:37 Stiluz wrote:On December 09 2011 23:28 OGKruemmel wrote:I have a question: Everyone talks about BW pros being totally kickass, but dont we have 3 BW legends already playing, and not showing too good results? NaDa, BoxeR and July  Who are past their prime, but in their respective primes tore up the scene AFAIK. Yep - they are waaaaaaay past their prime. Just check TLPD and watch some of the VODS of BW games from back in 2006-2008. The standard of games / the strategies employed are all sub-par to the games we are seeing today. Taek-Bang-Lee-Sang are on a totally different level than Nada, Boxer, July and the lot. July's win-rate in his last few years of BW was pathetic. Nada maintained a mediocre standard near the end of his BW career. That's why little known players like Mvp was called one of the "best" to switch from BW - not because he won an OSL, but because his skill level was the highest out of all the Ex-BW's to have switched. Also SCII was ... volatile. It's still volatile and HoTS will rip apart the whole metagame once again sigh. ogsMC, aka "MBCgame Suicide Toss" used to be known as "Iron" in BW. He was called "suicide toss" because he played extremely risky and acted ballsy. Point being, he lost most of his games lol
Iron wasn't called suicide toss because of anything he did in the game, it was because he made this hilarious throat cut ceremony gesture thing when he was sent up for an ace match vs KT (to snipe flash with some dumb protoss proxy dt cheese or something most likely), but KT sent stats out instead of flash and iron got stomped.
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On December 10 2011 03:47 1Eris1 wrote:
Just stop saying shit based on ladder. If you can't see how good his play is by watching you're an idiot but don't hype him by ladder. Hype him by his tourney results.
X.x? I don't get the point of hyping someone based off tourny results because then... well haven't they already proven themselves to begin with?
Some of the hype is overboard, but that's what happens. You have extremists on all sides. But it's still very obvious that he is incredibly good, and has a lot of potential. This isn't just from his stream, he's proven he has what it takes in BW, he has the work ethic, and he's been a champion before.
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The fact that he is able to run supoptimal openings and unit compositions and still win versus very good players should tell you how ridiculous his mechanics are.
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Love watching his stream, although its pretty obvious he's just dicking around/experimenting with various timing attacks. It's very common for zerg these days to get fast evo for sim-city against hellion, so naturally it's doesn't seem like the greatest idea to go reactor hellion into cloak banshee.
But this guy is making no assumptions when approaching sc2 metagame. He's re-testing all the established rules. After all, this is forGG the timing attack terran, he's not just going to let other terrans tell him a certain timing attack doesn't work before trying it out himself.
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On December 10 2011 03:04 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Yeah, I've basically agreed that he's not a top 3 terran yet, but I just see so much potential in him. Once he gets better game sense it'll be very interesting to see how he compares to MVP/MMA/Jjakji. But people should realize that he is still a code S player.
He's almost on the same level as MMA. From watching his streams his TvP is vastly better than MMA's, while his TvZ is definitely much weaker. If he played standard Bio/Tank/Medivac I'm sure he'd roll most Z's though.
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On December 10 2011 02:42 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 02:12 Sapphire.lux wrote:Yeah, judge a player by what he does on ladder, while streaming. That's very smart. Yeah, judge a player by what he does on ladder, while streaming, only when his winning. Like the hype Stephano, Hero had. When they lose it's just practice. Double standard all the way.
I didn't say anything about any player good or bad based on how they do while streaming. "Double standard all the way" 
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On December 10 2011 00:52 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 00:45 mrtomjones wrote:On December 09 2011 23:49 JesusOurSaviour wrote:On December 09 2011 23:37 Stiluz wrote:On December 09 2011 23:28 OGKruemmel wrote:I have a question: Everyone talks about BW pros being totally kickass, but dont we have 3 BW legends already playing, and not showing too good results? NaDa, BoxeR and July Who are past their prime, but in their respective primes tore up the scene AFAIK. Yep - they are waaaaaaay past their prime. Just check TLPD and watch some of the VODS of BW games from back in 2006-2008. The standard of games / the strategies employed are all sub-par to the games we are seeing today. Taek-Bang-Lee-Sang are on a totally different level than Nada, Boxer, July and the lot. July's win-rate in his last few years of BW was pathetic. Nada maintained a mediocre standard near the end of his BW career. That's why little known players like Mvp was called one of the "best" to switch from BW - not because he won an OSL, but because his skill level was the highest out of all the Ex-BW's to have switched. Also SCII was ... volatile. It's still volatile and HoTS will rip apart the whole metagame once again sigh. ogsMC, aka "MBCgame Suicide Toss" used to be known as "Iron" in BW. He was called "suicide toss" because he played extremely risky and acted ballsy. Point being, he lost most of his games lol I glanced at July's last 10 games and ForGG's and ironically July won more of them than Forgg did. People need to just wait and see how people do before proclaiming them the best ever. Also, people like MC and MVP simply got better chances to do well here and likely put in more effort. That alone can explain a big part of why they do better here. Dunno, back then I watched every single game in proleague and MSL and OSL and ForGG actually was always really good but just had silly fails, when he retired he still was like #16 in kespa rank and just got into top 8 in a big tournament I think, also he pretty much always played macro while july cheesed most of the time in his past games. Also it's very likely july played worse opponents than forgg at the time, you can't just look at it like that. Also the people who say MVP was better than forgg when he retired clearly didn't follow the scene enough
thx for the polite reply unlike that other guy  Yah I figured they were worse opponents but I didnt bother to check. The person I replied to simply commented on win % at the end of the career so I pointed out he was wrong(technically or otherwise it didnt matter to me).
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On December 10 2011 04:18 FinalForm wrote:
Love watching his stream, although its pretty obvious he's just dicking around/experimenting with various timing attacks. It's very common for zerg these days to get fast evo for sim-city against hellion, so naturally it's doesn't seem like the greatest idea to go reactor hellion into cloak banshee.
But this guy is making no assumptions when approaching sc2 metagame. He's re-testing all the established rules. After all, this is forGG the timing attack terran, he's not just going to let other terrans tell him a certain timing attack doesn't work before trying it out himself.
Yes, isn't that a good thing?
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On December 10 2011 04:22 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 03:04 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Yeah, I've basically agreed that he's not a top 3 terran yet, but I just see so much potential in him. Once he gets better game sense it'll be very interesting to see how he compares to MVP/MMA/Jjakji. But people should realize that he is still a code S player. He's almost on the same level as MMA. From watching his streams his TvP is vastly better than MMA's, while his TvZ is definitely much weaker. If he played standard Bio/Tank/Medivac I'm sure he'd roll most Z's though.
Just because MMA has one weak matchup doesnt mean this guy is on his level. MMA has stellar vz and vt(minus the Polt series)
Maybe with Huk in the Slayers house he can learn TVP a bit better..
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MMA has more game sense and his late game is insanely good. Too hard to judge how good forgg's late game is. I'm sure his mechanics and multitasking are just as good then, but decision making/etc. stuff like that is completely in the dark.
Forgg has a tendency to go WAAAY overaggressive when he should be playing passive. It might just be his style, or just something he's practicing, but he's very rarely ever passive and I always think "wow, really? you can move out right now?" And most of the times he crushes them, but other times he doesn't.
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On December 10 2011 05:26 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 04:22 superstartran wrote:On December 10 2011 03:04 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Yeah, I've basically agreed that he's not a top 3 terran yet, but I just see so much potential in him. Once he gets better game sense it'll be very interesting to see how he compares to MVP/MMA/Jjakji. But people should realize that he is still a code S player. He's almost on the same level as MMA. From watching his streams his TvP is vastly better than MMA's, while his TvZ is definitely much weaker. If he played standard Bio/Tank/Medivac I'm sure he'd roll most Z's though. Just because MMA has one weak matchup doesnt mean this guy is on his level. MMA has stellar vz and vt(minus the Polt series) Maybe with Huk in the Slayers house he can learn TVP a bit better..
Forgg's TvP is way better than MMA's, and his TvZ is not really that shabby considering he can outplay most of his Z opponents.
Also, ForGG's TvT is pretty disgustingly sick.
MMA lately also hasn't been that impressive, although he's still putting up good results.
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EPT
