EPTTournament meritocracy: more opens, less invites - Page 2
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Rikke
Germany302 Posts
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Elean
689 Posts
Invitiational are OK, but they should try to always have at least a less known player who have shown great results. They may not do anything (e.g. Lucifron at Dreamhack, or ostojiy at blizzard invitational), but It gives them 1 shot at showing how good they are. Well, of course, players that are insanely good don't need something like that (cf. Stephano). | ||
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
I dislike your use of the word"meritocracy". Being able to win a fluke BO3 against a better opponent isn't meritocratic. Consistently placing well in tournaments (and thus being invited to invitationals) is meritocratic, so I'd say invitationals are more meritocratic than open tournaments. | ||
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MavivaM
1535 Posts
On November 25 2011 01:37 Sbrubbles wrote: The "random" aspect of SC2 can lead to "good" players (players who have demonstrated they're good in other tournaments) to get knocked out due to flukes. Also, there time and player stamina to take into account. I dislike your use of the word"meritocracy". Being able to win a fluke BO3 against a better opponent isn't meritocratic. Consistently placing well in tournaments (and thus being invited to invitationals) is meritocratic, so I'd say invitationals are more meritocratic than open tournaments. You don't see the worth of someone in a single event, but with his consistency. If consistently placing well in tournaments is due to invitations the system may be flawed. Example: if in a 16 players tournament 14 players are invited and 2 are there due to qualifiers it's pretty easy for an invited player (let's say Y) to get top 8. And then he just wins another bo3 and gets top4. Y played two opponents and he gets top 4. His results are there, but imo they have not the same worth of the poor player A, who worked his ass with 8 bo3 of qualifier and then get top 16. When I check tlpd and see a player who gets ton of placements I also look at HOW MANY games he has played. There are players, out of there, who keep getting their invites despite 3-4 placements (not talking about GSL players obv), sometimes. What if someone is kicked out due to a fluke? If you are solid, it will most likely happen... once every 5 tournaments? Otherwise, maybe you aren't that exceptionally good. If your opponent sucks, after this tournament he won't do anything significant and will be just a one-hit wonder. And those will get naturally filtered with time. | ||
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
Fans love their star players, how many times have we seen LR threads rage about tournaments showing games from ¨unknowns¨? Its a tough break, I don´t like the system , but tournaments ultimately are trying to please the fans | ||
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ES_JohnClark
United States1121 Posts
my 1.5 cents for now... | ||
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
On November 25 2011 01:37 Sbrubbles wrote: The "random" aspect of SC2 can lead to "good" players (players who have demonstrated they're good in other tournaments) to get knocked out due to flukes. Also, there time and player stamina to take into account. I dislike your use of the word"meritocracy". Being able to win a fluke BO3 against a better opponent isn't meritocratic. Consistently placing well in tournaments (and thus being invited to invitationals) is meritocratic, so I'd say invitationals are more meritocratic than open tournaments. Ummm, luck and stuff like that aside it is only fair to let new players(fluke or not) to get their chance in the spotloght, to get some brand recognition. And consistency in tournaments? If they are so consistent in tournaments they should be able to get out of the open portion of the tourney (See, all Koreans who made it through the open bracket in the tournament) hell i am not against them being seeded for their consistency. But being invited based on their fanbase is bad. I mean hell, look at MLG NA global invitational. Of all NA pro players what made Destiny so special that he deserved an invite? His consistent results at MLG? Col Cruncher and Trimaster had better showings in the MLGs they attended. I have nothing against Destiny but I have to object when better players than him don´t get the chance to participate in a lot of tourneys because they are not popular enough. And no invitationals are not more meritocratic than opens, they are fanservice tournament(which is not bad at all). | ||
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Sighstorm
Netherlands116 Posts
An invitational that blindly invites players (over and over again) without looking around is what i like the least (like the EU invites for MLG invitational (although it was understandable, because those players had MLG experience)). I like the method that tournaments like Dreamhack and Grubbies tournament use better... anyone can apply to the tournament and players that have a track record to back it up will be invited. In EU there are enough smaller online tournaments to get your name out there (if you show good results) and i think the oppertunities to do so in NA is growing steadily as well. | ||
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Insomni7
667 Posts
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Hdizz
Canada93 Posts
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DrainX
Sweden3187 Posts
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Chill
Calgary25993 Posts
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FT.aCt)Sony
United States1048 Posts
It might help if you do some brood war history before asking about known and unknown people. Alot of the unknown people to majority of players today were known in brood war and considering majority didn't play brood war that would be why they are unknown to yourself and others alike. | ||
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Serelitz
Netherlands2895 Posts
If you don't like fanbased invites, fine, don't watch stuff like DH invitationals. Good players will get scouted by good teams and get the hype they deserve - the only reason it seems skewed towards NA players is because of the open bracket there, so NA subtop players get more exposure to fans. Good talent scouts can look past that to lesser known players from EU/KR as well, just look at all the korean 'nonames' that got picked up by foreign teams for example. | ||
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HydraLF
Hong Kong626 Posts
Jinro is better than those Europeans you listed. | ||
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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ki11z0ne
United States427 Posts
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FairForever
Canada2392 Posts
ALSO: You think teams will send players if they don't have guaranteed spots? How many non-Euro Pros are in the Open Bracket BYOCs for any of the DH tournaments? None? Same reason why someone like Morrow wouldn't bother going to MLG if he has to go through the Open Bracket. So even if you end up with the best players making it to the Pool Play anyway... you might not, because they won't bother to show up without an invitation. | ||
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mrRoflpwn
United States2618 Posts
MLG : Has a huge open pool play. Dreamhack Winter : Contains a lot of a newcomers. IPL : Does offline qualifiers. NASL : Does offline qualifiers. Dreamhack also has many online qualifiers as well as qualifiers at the event. Every major tournament has qualifiers where anyone can sign up and play. Your point is completely retarded simply because we consumers ENJOY watching TLO, Destiny, or Tyler.. even if they'res some better players- Its about who we want to watch- so I really don't care if they get invited over some random player. | ||
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MavivaM
1535 Posts
FT.aCt)Sony United States. November 25 2011 02:58. Posts 348 PM Profile Quote # Stareagle at one point in Brood War was one of Italy's best players and repetitive WCG Italy representative. It might help if you do some brood war history before asking about known and unknown people. I know who StarEagle is. It's the reason why he is in the OP. But according to his results, Sc2 speaking he counts as emergent and I don't recall about him being invited somewhere. According to your account info you know BW better than me (no irony) so I'd like to ask you a question: why do you feel that BW has withstood so much the test of the time? Apart from the game mechanics and the game balance (or supposed, according to someone), why do you think that BW keeps lasting? Not for korean viewers, what keeps attracting foreigner fans? My personal bet is the quality of the games and therefore of the players. Because you can be sure that everyone is a beast, everyone puts his very best into the game and everyone DESERVES anything they get. Then, funny things to make the fans go crazy still happen despite the absolute professionality. Crazy celebrations, even if they managed to tone them down. Rivalries, scandals, hilarious stuff. Nothing different from Sc2. Imo at the end of the day what attracts people is the real worth of a player, and not other tangentially related things. Don't see why it should be the same in Sc2. Very nice of you to bm 3 of liquids players there, well played. Hey slow down, I never said that a guy who managed to compete against koreans in GSL was bad. Even TLO could compete with koreans months ago. And Tyler hasn't always been Tyler, but Nony. But at the current moment... it doesn't look like they are tearing brackets apart. It's quite obvious that they have been in a hard slump, luckily it seems that they are getting through and as soon as they manage to prove me wrong with a major win I'll be glad to eat my words in this own thread and then sign into their fan clubs. Until then, except for Jinro they play in tournaments thanks to invitations and without doing anything significant instead of players who maybe could do better. As said in the OP those are just examples taken from anELITE of players (the professionals) who do that for living. I also mentioned Incontrol and Machine but this doesn't mean that I diss EG. Chill Canada. November 25 2011 02:45. Posts 23009 PM Profile Blog Quote # It's a shame, but the most popular aren't necessarily the best. If a tournament had the lineup you mentioned from an open bracket, I would frankly not watch it. I really want to see the most popular players, not the best :X BUT WHY DO YOU WANT TO HURT ESPORTS Jokes aside does it seem I am arrogant or whatever? It's not the point of my thread, don't get why some gets offended. If you want me to stop PM me and I'll tone it down. | ||
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