EPTGSL Nov Map changes - Page 16
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Chronald
United States619 Posts
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andrewnguyener
United States548 Posts
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Champi
1422 Posts
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Shiladie
Canada1631 Posts
On October 28 2011 02:04 fusionsdf wrote: hmm I guess gold patches + mules are being blamed for terran dominance? that was my thought, remove golds and it's a nerf to terran, I wonder whether most of the other changes are along the same lines trying to self balance against the terran dominance. Everyone has to remember, it's in gomtv's best interest to make the most terran unfavorable maps possible to get the league back to a regular race composition. | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On October 29 2011 06:12 Shiladie wrote: that was my thought, remove golds and it's a nerf to terran, I wonder whether most of the other changes are along the same lines trying to self balance against the terran dominance. Everyone has to remember, it's in gomtv's best interest to make the most terran unfavorable maps possible to get the league back to a regular race composition. Gold patches allow a Terran with weaker Macro to catch back up to a better player, if they can secure a Gold Base. For Antigua specifically, it's like Xel`Naga, if a Terran can get the Gold up, they get a massive advantage. | ||
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NEXUS6
United States413 Posts
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Sumadin
Denmark588 Posts
I think they also need to start tuning down the terran-stomping and take their time or they might see a huge backlass. I have suspected for a while that GSL terran problem also come down to how code S players barely got replaced. With this new system and the terran nerfs in 1.4 and 1.4.2 we might risk a collosal terran drop down to the single digit. And then we can just start all over again with the attempts to rebuff the maps for terran while stomping down on Protoss/Zerg(Whoever becomes dominant). | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On October 29 2011 06:21 Taf the Ghost wrote: Gold patches allow a Terran with weaker Macro to catch back up to a better player, if they can secure a Gold Base. For Antigua specifically, it's like Xel`Naga, if a Terran can get the Gold up, they get a massive advantage. On XelNaga, the problem of the gold is terran balance yeah. But on antiga and crossfire, I really don't think so, the problem is way bigger when zerg use the gold as a first expand (or a second very fast expand). It will also influence terran balance yeah, but I'm not sure terran balance was what was in mind for the gold removals. I think it was mainly because of the stupid games fast gold for zerg induced (you either scout it and try to allin and hope you hit the very small timing window you have or you die) | ||
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Adreme
United States5574 Posts
On October 29 2011 08:47 MrCon wrote: On XelNaga, the problem of the gold is terran balance yeah. But on antiga and crossfire, I really don't think so, the problem is way bigger when zerg use the gold as a first expand (or a second very fast expand). It will also influence terran balance yeah, but I'm not sure terran balance was what was in mind for the gold removals. I think it was mainly because of the stupid games fast gold for zerg induced (you either scout it and try to allin and hope you hit the very small timing window you have or you die) I dont think 100% terran balance on Xel Naga either. By terran balance I mean the terran having the gold is whats causing the dominance on that map. Its involved but its more the fact that terran can take the gold while effectively denying your gold that caused the map imbalances that Xel Naga wound up with. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On October 29 2011 09:32 Adreme wrote: I dont think 100% terran balance on Xel Naga either. By terran balance I mean the terran having the gold is whats causing the dominance on that map. Its involved but its more the fact that terran can take the gold while effectively denying your gold that caused the map imbalances that Xel Naga wound up with. Yeah, on xelnaga it's more the PF on the gold is too much of a strategic/positional/map control advantage. I kinda liked the gold expansions on dual sight tho, it was a real risk to take them early. But late they could be a problem against zerg more than terran, again, imo. (zerg can defend the gold against every race, protoss and terran can't even take a 3rd on this map, so the gold is out of the table anyway) | ||
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vincom2
Singapore1775 Posts
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Avan
Brazil121 Posts
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TheKwangBang
United States15 Posts
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Macabre
United States1262 Posts
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Imalengrat
Australia365 Posts
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tuestresfat
2555 Posts
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neoghaleon55
United States7434 Posts
On October 29 2011 09:32 Adreme wrote: I dont think 100% terran balance on Xel Naga either. By terran balance I mean the terran having the gold is whats causing the dominance on that map. Its involved but its more the fact that terran can take the gold while effectively denying your gold that caused the map imbalances that Xel Naga wound up with. That aspect has always dumbfounded me on a lot of ladder maps. If terrans get the gold, they will not only have a better economy due to mules but they will also deny the gold on yourside of the map. This is especially problematic on golds that are controlled by highgrounds such as metalopolis and antigashipyard. | ||
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
On October 29 2011 02:13 Chronald wrote: I realy like the idea of ditching gold minerals. I think that gold bases + mules have been part of th reason that terran has been doing so well. Not all of the reason, but some of it. Very true. Gold bases don't promote strategic variety, they discourage it. And they're imba to boot. And they look silly in that cartoon yellow color. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10286 Posts
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RyLai
United States477 Posts
On October 28 2011 02:07 GTR wrote: should have removed crossfire instead of xnf but w/e. Xel'Naga Fortress is tiny and is too susceptible to early timing attacks and Blink all-ins. Crossfire is just a bad map but at least you don't necessarily see the EXACT SAME THING OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. Both should be removed, Metalopolis should be put back in, and that's that. As for Winter Belshir Beach, who the hell goes to the beach in the winter??? I like the new map. Free bases ftw! Mvp will love it with his OC spam builds. I think taking away gold bases makes sense unless MULEs only mine 30 minerals on gold patches. Spamming MULEs on gold expansions and affording an extra base and a half's worth of infantry is insane, and these are by the already increased Terran income standards! | ||
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