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On October 24 2011 14:37 Xapti wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2011 14:16 nameless55 wrote:On October 24 2011 14:12 Silky wrote:
Anyone have a diagram of this "posture"? Your spine has natural curves in it. Sitting is not a natural position for the body to be in, so an 'ideal' sitting position is one that has the spine in a state similar to a person standing and straight and relaxed. Use the google, I'm sure you can easily find a plethora of information with little to no effort. Well I've sort of heard that a bit, but I've also heard another thing. What you're talking about makes sense to use a kneeling chair, which is what I use (although it's not a very good one). I've heard a fair bit that a chair where a person is sitting at 135° or so (as opposed to 90%) is an optimal ergonomic position. I would think it would be hard to get the screen aligned well with that position though. With regards to the OP, a bit of it is genetics, a bit would be diet, and a lot of it is just proper excercising/breaks and of course proper posture. I hear women have a 3x higher risk of CTS than men.
Are you suggesting that it is better to lean back in your chair? I've never read/heard that before, everything I have been taught has been to sit up straight and comfortably.. not exaggerating your posture but also not slumping like a large portion of us (myself included) do very frequently... I'm sure this discussion could go on and on, but I'll try to say about the wrist issues..
Check your wrist angle.. hold up your hand in front of your face (now let someone push it.. jk)... for a lot of us, while playing games our tendencies in our wrists are to angle them so the thumb is lined up with the forearm.. or at least leaning towards this spectrum. Being aware of it will instantly help.. you can't fix it if you don't know it's happening. Most importantly though if it hurts, stop. Use common sense. Shake your hands out after games to give some movement and blood flow so they don't get stuck in the same position for hours and hours.
Crunching numbers and statistics on all of these hand problems are fine. Personally, I find using common sense to be a very successful prevention method. If something hurts, I stop. If it continues to hurt, I change what I'm doing. If I don't know what to do, I ask someone (which I suppose is this thread). If nothing works, go see a doctor. Seriously though, you should not be having wrist issues unless you are constantly putting yourself under unneeded stress. There are always ways to perform comfortably. Any athletes, musicians, etc that post in this thread I'm sure can back me up on this. I myself am a musician. Does that make me more qualified to tell you what to do? NO. But, I do deal with these things through my constant, repetitive, unnatural motions, which is exactly what using a computer is as well.
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On October 24 2011 14:54 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2011 14:38 lastshadow wrote:
A LOT of players get it, they just don't complain about it, and/or it goes unnoticed by the community if they ever do talk about it. It's not something negligible, though. MVP had trouble setting up his computer a while ago(forget if it was for GSL or MLG >_>) because of how bad the pain was, and I don't think it's gotten any better. MMA's another person with wrist issues, but I forget if it was from a martial arts accident or from playing. I know he said during his GSL mini-doc that one of his hands become paralyzed if he plays for too long.
I was scared watching MVP high five that massive line of people at blizzcon.
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On October 24 2011 14:54 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2011 14:38 lastshadow wrote:
A LOT of players get it, they just don't complain about it, and/or it goes unnoticed by the community if they ever do talk about it. It's not something negligible, though. MVP had trouble setting up his computer a while ago(forget if it was for GSL or MLG >_>) because of how bad the pain was, and I don't think it's gotten any better. MMA's another person with wrist issues, but I forget if it was from a martial arts accident or from playing. I know he said during his GSL mini-doc that one of his hands become paralyzed if he plays for too long.
Actually its not his wrist. He injured his pinky I think?
I would presume that its his right hand's pinky. Would kind of suck playing with a injured pinky with your left hand.
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Supposedly genetics has a lot to do with how easy it is to get too. Something to do with the diameter of whatever nerve is involved.
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also keep in mind that everyone is different, u might call it luck but some people would just be less prone to getting it than others. possibly by better genes, better natural posture without paying conscious attention to yourself, being involved in other activities during your life that help prevent CT, etc etc.
But i deffinitely would advise keeping in mind to be taking care of yourself and not neglecting your wrists and just 'assuming' you're one of the lucky few who are less likely to get it
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On October 24 2011 14:16 Misanthrope wrote:
SeanShepard is correct. Frequent rest periods and proper stretching are also necessary. Many progamers do actually suffer from RSI or carpal tunnel. Like you said, TLO is one, MVP is another. Recently FlaSh (BW god for the uninitiated), had to have sections of muscle removed from his right arm, as they were overdeveloped and putting too much pressure on the nerve.
For some it is also a matter of luck, Idra said on SotG that he's been really lucky as far as RSI/CT goes and has never had any issues at all. My doctor told me recently when I brought up this subject that some people are just lucky with their physiology and are highly unlikely to ever develop any problems.
Also, what are you lfg for?
EDIT: guys do a quick search RSI, Carpal Tunnel, and posture. There are a few threads that have popped up the last year or two with instructions about proper stretches, warm-ups, and desk posture from health majors.
wait a minute... flash got carpal tunnel cause his sc muscles were too strong? That is so awesome yet sad at thesame time
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Like anything in medicine, there's surely a genetic component involved (for example the tendency to have fibrosis after an inflammatory insult or the anatomical configuration of your tendons), but also an environmental one, which is determined by all the stress your hand must handle in all of your activities.
Unfortunately, once the symptoms appear, there is not a medical therapy yet which is not rest of the said hand, ergonomics or anti inflammatory drugs. When symptoms become invalidating, there's a surgical solution though.
The primary objective remains prevention with ergonomics, stretching and rest in long sessions.
Btw I think many pro gamers have carpal syndrome or ulnar syndrome, they just don't show it, because at their level of practice, even having little predisposition to it, hand stress becomes massive.
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MVP himself says he does poorly in practice because it is so painful. During GSL interview he said something along the lines of how the pressure and crowd motivates him to ignore the pain.
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On October 24 2011 16:53 Remb wrote:
MVP himself says he does poorly in practice because it is so painful. During GSL interview he said something along the lines of how the pressure and crowd motivates him to ignore the pain.
If you have enough adrenaline pumping through your system -- as you surely do during LAN events -- I imagine you can ignore a lot of the discomfort and pain.
It's really the practice that's affected more, though, I think.
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The Terrans Top Players always have carpeal tunnel 
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I have pretty bad CT, I used to be a Quake player and when I was at the top of the my game I was practicing 8+ hours a day (huge deal for an american fps). A few years back I bought a glove from Steelseries, and whenever I wear it while gaming for a long period of time, nothing ever hurts.
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Are there any braces that anyone has seen players use? If so please link.
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Hey guys I'm a medical professional who works with high intensity level athletes and I'll add another side to some these types of things that may be easily overlooked. A lot of times muscle imbalances or weaknesses can lead to injuries like these. For example just simply warming your hands up properly, stretching and doing occasional forearm exercises can really help prevent wrist injuries such as carpal tunnel. As for the post mentioning Flash needing a surgery that is what's referred to as compartment syndrome and it happens to runners a lot in the shin area. The procedure that I assume you're referring to is a fasciotomy in which the surgeons actually have to cut the tissue that encases the muscle in order to allow blood flow and sensation to return. With that injury usually it can be overcome with proper stretching, warming up and icing/anti-inflamitorys unless it's the result of some kind of trauma. Hope that helps with anyone maybe suffering from these kinds of things. As always though if it's bad seek medical advice.
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What are these exercises?
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sommething i learned from day9 is that when you rest your hands you should be wresting on the bone part of your wrists
that makes it so it doesn't restric blood from going to your wrists and it actually acts like a really good pivot so you can move quicker over the keyboard
also tilt the left side of your keyboard up when playing starcraft. It is more natural fro your hand
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On October 24 2011 17:11 MattO1337 wrote:
I have pretty bad CT, I used to be a Quake player and when I was at the top of the my game I was practicing 8+ hours a day (huge deal for an american fps). A few years back I bought a glove from Steelseries, and whenever I wear it while gaming for a long period of time, nothing ever hurts.
What's the name of the glove?
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On October 24 2011 14:37 Apus wrote:Day9 spoke about some stretches you can do to help reduce the chances of picking up an RSI injury on daily #252 (fantastic daily for other things too). Seems someone was nice enough to Youtube it as well: Here.
a really REALLY awesome daily ^^^^ probably the best besides the day 9 biography ... I use his advice on posture,hand position,and stretching all the time. Also talks about mechanics mouse precision etc.
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On October 25 2011 09:05 ToguRo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2011 14:37 Apus wrote:Day9 spoke about some stretches you can do to help reduce the chances of picking up an RSI injury on daily #252 (fantastic daily for other things too). Seems someone was nice enough to Youtube it as well: Here. a really REALLY awesome daily ^^^^ probably the best besides the day 9 biography ... I use his advice on posture,hand position,and stretching all the time. Also talks about mechanics mouse precision etc.
that podcast legit helped me move around the keyboard a lot faster
really useful
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United States4991 Posts
I do have some wrist problems (I should note that my profession also involves a lot of typing during the day too, so it's not just from gaming). I wear wrist braces on both hands while at work. I tried it while gaming a bit, but I find it difficult to get the mouse movements necessary, so I don't use them while gaming. I don't rest my wrist directly on the table though, I actually use a deodorant stick under my wrist to elevate it a bit (it's just the right size, nothing special about it otherwise)
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On October 24 2011 14:28 Gixxasaurus wrote:
I have RSI, or carpal tunnel. But it has gone.
I played in Cal-Invite in CoD1 back in 2003-06 era. I played 80 hrs per week, basically nonstop 24/7 for two years. My right ring finger, and thumb from having a claw grip on the mouse (for precision aiming). I had to pick up MMO's (like Lineage, Aion, etc) because my passion for FPS made me not play very good with less finger strength to control the mouse super accurately and fast.
Now just by taking a break for 1-2 years of light MMO gaming, I'm back. But I've always struggled with it. Cuz I played TF2 at a pretty high level and started getting that weird finger nerve thing last year. So thats why I play this now. Got a new mouse (steelseries xai) that I think helps. IMO, the lightest mouse possible is better, so that it requires less energy to move it (pick it up, reposition it, etc). I'm 27 yrs old.
Two years ago playing TF2 my thumb was getting weak. So I quit playing as much (not 24/7); like 2 hours limit per day max. Then I notice my right thumb started occasionally twitching on its own very slightly. Kinda scary.
I type super fast (120-130wpm....same as Destiny) on a filco brown. And have used keyboard since age 17 heavily. So 10 years.
CoD1 fighting! What cal-i team were you back then?
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EPT
