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Darksoldierr
Hungary2013 Posts
On October 23 2011 00:27 Numy wrote: Again you basing your opinion on the strength of it in the video which is in no way the final strength of it. Well on what else should i base my opinion?  I cant play myself so i watch the videos. | ||
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bovineblitz
United States314 Posts
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s3183529
Australia707 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On October 23 2011 00:28 Alpina wrote: Have you watched the video? o_O Like 30 lings tried to run by this thing and all died in 1.5 seconds :D There is no way blizzard going to let this thing stay with same dps it doing now. But again, they stated that they are making units OP on purpose to balance them later on. So I think most of the things going to be toned down, like Shredder, range of Vipers unit steal, splash damage of Tempest. Yes I said it was pointless to judge anything but concept using these videos. The strength it's at will never be the final strength. If you think conceptually it's overpowered then fine but please don't say it's overpowered because you saw it rape in blizzcon videos. That's just silly. On October 23 2011 00:29 Darksoldierr wrote: Well on what else should i base my opinion? I cant play myself so i watch the videos. You can only judge the concept. Even playing the game currently wouldn't allow you to judge it since this is alpha(pre-alpha?) designed to show off concept not actual strength. | ||
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Horse...falcon
United States1851 Posts
Zerg is supposed to be very quick moving and good at taking the map. If I have a number of swarm hosts I'm going to be stuck babysitting them like brood lords. Also they don't seem that effective, in this video it takes 9 swarm hosts 1 round (about 30ish seconds) to take out a bunker...I get that they're supposed to be used for cannon fodder against enemy artillery but zerglings kind of fulfill the same role without a super big unit to slow it down. | ||
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Sonar
Scotland1 Post
On October 23 2011 00:02 Osmoses wrote: I feel bad for protoss. The tempest feels like it's fulfilling a need that didn't exist. Archons and templars handled mass muta just fine. And introducing a capital ship just to counter that one composition is... stupid. It's stupid. why do people not seem to get that the tempest is good against all air, its not just for mutalisks..furthermore, it attacks ground units with a mothership-esque beam that does like 36 damage so its a worthy addition | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
http://www.gamefront.com/blizzcon-2011-starcraft-2-heart-of-the-swarm-new-multiplayer-unit-stats-and-abilities/ Phase shift takes out structures for 45 seconds. That means nearly a minute without access to key tech, or static defense. Not just delaying upgrades like contaminate used to, but removing existing tech option from the game for nearly a minute...I mean, if you phase shift a spire, the Zerg can't make mutas for 45 seconds. That is frikkin crazily powerful given how reliant Zerg, and even other races sometimes, are on timely tech switching. Entomb shuts down the mineral field, not one patch at a time as some people were worrying, and that also lasts for 45 seconds, which is crazily powerful. Oh, you took an expo? No you didn't, have fun mining off one base for the next minute. The only question is the health on the entombment, as it needs to be handled carefully, not so weak that workers can just pop it quickly, but not so strong that a small contingent of army units cant destroy it the way they would a drop. Ideally, you'd want the same sort of defense force to be required to deal with entomb that would be required to deal with the average drop, so the harassing player can force the same choices that ordinary harassment does. Preordained is odd. I could see it being useful, depending on how long it lasts. If its permanent or lasts like several minutes? Thats really useful, because putting it on the right structure will literally give you constant access to amazing scouting data...like a hatch for example. You see everything they build, you see when they take their lair or hive, you see lots of key upgrades, and you don't even have to be in their base, you just shoot and forget. If, however, preordained lasts for only a short period of time, its pretty meh, because then its not giving you much info you wouldn't already have had in their base. But, preordained aside... Give me the fucking Oracle already Blizzard! I want it now. This is EXACTLY what I want. Extremely powerful harass options that dont require me to throw away expensive units, that feel "protossy" in that they use spells to do what other races do through more standard means but is still very effective. The ability to shut down entire mineral lines and tech paths for nearly a minute at a time, with the push of a button from a super fast flying spellcaster, that comes right out of a stargate and needs no additional tech/upgrades--YES! Gimme, gimme gimme. Fuck the replicant and the tempest. I mean, not, I hope they turn out great. But the Oracle is what I'm excited about. That looks like a great, insanely powerful unit. I can't wait for the first time I build a few Phoenixes, Z goes "now I have a spore, your units are useless mwahahaha" and I push a button and his static defense stops working for nearly a minute. So he says "here's a bunch of queens, bitch". So I lift them with my Phoenixes, then shutdown the mineral line with entomb and pull out. I've taken no damage, and effectively put the Zerg on one less mining base for a long ass time. So fucking badass. And possibly imba as hell, but whatever--if Zerg can get crazy imba abduction powers and T is getting the frikkin shredder, then the least Toss can get is an overpowered harassment option. What made BW great was that every race had "overpowered" stuff, and the Oracle definitely looks like it will be one of those "overpowered" Protoss things. | ||
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KDot2
United States1213 Posts
and the Protoss ones just aren't great ideas even if they make Protoss the best race or even with the other two .... they just aren't good ideas | ||
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Hider
Denmark9433 Posts
On October 23 2011 00:20 Jakkerr wrote: I initially liked the changes too protoss and terran but the more I think about it the more my opinion changes. I know all these units will probably still change a lot, but after watching the video the new protoss units just look awful. The replicant is insanely expensive for a mediocre unit that costs 4(lolwut) supply. The Oracle has some nice uses but won't make much of an impact, the harass ability is just plain bad since stopping mining for a while doesn't change the game, killing workers does. The only use I see for this unit is to make double stargate openers in PvZ overpowered, void ray + oracle, sup all ur spores are stunned. The tempest has some very limited uses so I don't know how useful it will actually be, it seems to kill a lot of air units quite fast when you have about 4-5 tempests which could be nice to kill corrupters and vikings in ur deathball. The mass muta example was just stupid, I dunno about you guys but that situation might happen once every 5000 PvZ's. Terran: I don't have much problems with the warhound(?) and battle hellion since they don't seem OP and are probably good for fixing some things. But the shredder seems really strange cuz of it's insane dmg. So u build an expansion, put 1-2 shredders at the ramp out of range of ur own stuff and ur expansion can't be touched by any harass? will 100% be changed. They got a lot of work to do. Sure you harass expos. use drops whatever on the expansions. Just dont run right into one shredder. The idea of giving terran a replacement for the spider mine is pretty good. If the shredder is the correct unit to do that, I dont know yet. Only terran will tell. However it will definitely be very dificult to balance. | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
 The new Protoss units aren't as straight forward as the new Zerg units. You can easily see the new potential in the new Defiler, all its abilities are very straight forward and it is very easy to see how strong they can be given the situation. I think a lot of people are just having trouble trying to see the worth in the new Protoss units, but how do you measure the worth of shielding minerals or phasing tech? Even replicating units? For the most part, these are actually new concepts introduced into SC2 that we haven't ever experienced before... How can you really add a price tag to that one ghost you replicated that managed to EMP all of your enemies Ghost, or that one Infestor that got off a fungal and held the ramp like a boss whilst your army was being recalled back? How can you really say whether or not the Orcale is bad if no one really has a good idea on the type of damage you can do with its harassing ability. The Overseer certainly has a similar mechanic to Phase shift but certainly not as strong. Phase shift quite literally disables a building for 45seconds. You can try guess how strong it will be, but no one has ever dealt with an ability quite like that. How exactly would your opponents react if you remove their Starport, Cybernetics Core or Infestation pit for 45seconds? What is the best way to capitalize on that? I'm pretty sure most people would have some idea of the damage it could do but I doubt any here really knows the limits of the unit. What is the game going to look like when you can Mass _fucking_ recall from your m'fing Nexus!? That is an absolutely HUGE change. Does anyone really have a good idea what TvP, PvP and ZvP will be like with such a change? You can sure as hell bet that it WON'T be a small change, it will be a huge change to how Protoss play but how huge and how it will affect the match ups remains to be seen I kinda hated the changes for Protoss too until I started to put some thought into them and right now the only thing I can think about is how to abuse them as much as possible. One thing is for sure, race that will change how they play the most will definitely be Protoss. I think the vast majority of people have the least idea on how the Protoss matches will change as opposed to the other matches come HOTS. So yeah, I think the reason why people feel Protoss is getting the short end of the stick is because they don't know what to expect come HOTS and assume the worst--to be clear, I mean that people can see some situations where the units will be good but because they have never dealt with such a unit before and how unclear it is compared to the other new units they can't tell how strong it will be and just assumes it sucks | ||
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ohampatu
United States1448 Posts
On October 23 2011 00:23 Shurayuki wrote: are they? can you snipe them? never occured to me because nobody does that so i thought they weren't you could heal temps then i guess? lol... either way i think you're better off using it for something else :x Pfft. Medivacs are 1 of the best things to choose. Marine/Rauder/Ling/Roach are all useless. You dont want to replicate a unit that is only good in 'mass'. You want to replicate 'special' units. Raven- Gives new harras options and well as defensive options. Banshee- Like the Raven, gives us a few 'harrass' options that we dont have, might not be worth it here though unless you get 2 or 3. Tank-useless to replicate Ghost-YESYESYES I can find alot of reasons to use replicate in PvT. In PvZ its a bit different, depending on the limitations of the spell, it might not be as used (considering most zerg units need to me 'massed' to be affective). I doubt we'll see protoss making an scv and building a CC very often. | ||
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Aetherial
Australia917 Posts
 http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/lkybe/dae_think_the_warhound_looks_retarded_just_bring/ | ||
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Midgetman101
United States825 Posts
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
I feel bad for protoss. The tempest feels like it's fulfilling a need that didn't exist. Archons and templars handled mass muta just fine. And introducing a capital ship just to counter that one composition is... stupid. It's stupid Um, you do know Vikings suck against air splash right? They suck vs. Storm, and they even suck vs. Archons if the Archons can somehow get in range. Well, the Tempest looks to be basically a flying super archon vs. air. It is gonna wreck Vikings utterly. Which means reactored starports is not gonna be the be-all, end-all of anti-Colossi play--Colossus/Tempest will pretty much force Terran to build BCs (who are definitely not particularly vulnerable to anti-air splash). | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
On October 23 2011 00:21 hugman wrote: I'm not Protoss and I still feel they got the short end of the stick. A harass caster that can't kill workers, AoE A2A when Phoenixes already slaughter mutas, a unit that can copy other race's units because they're much better than Protoss units. Bah. What about if recall on the nexus goes through? That's probably better than any unit that's been announced for anybody. Also, I think the oracle is a great idea for protoss. You don't need to kill workers to still harass, impeding production works too. Basically, it's what the overseer SHOULD have been. If it turns out that the cost isn't ridiculous and it isn't too far up the tech tree, I see no reason to complain about the oracle. The tempest though.... looks fucking stupid and will probably suck. They should just fix the carrier lol. Replicant seems too difficult to balance. Will likely be scrapped. | ||
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Aetherial
Australia917 Posts
On October 23 2011 00:32 Midgetman101 wrote: i love all the protoss whine in here I have to admit I'm a Terran fan boy and I actually feel sorry for the Protoss players, their changes are a bit lame imo. | ||
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Midgetman101
United States825 Posts
On October 23 2011 00:31 Aetherial wrote: Feel free to up vote this guys http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/lkybe/dae_think_the_warhound_looks_retarded_just_bring/ Also its weird because the warhound looks so much better in game | ||
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Lunat!c
122 Posts
On October 23 2011 00:30 ToguRo wrote: lets face it guys .... the Zerg and Terran units are pretty decent and will make decent gameplay and the Protoss ones just aren't great ideas even if they make Protoss the best race or even with the other two .... they just aren't good ideas I do agree 100% they must have smoked crack while they were creating those new Protoss units... My little brother could come up with shit like that and he is retarded as hell. What were they thinking? | ||
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ohampatu
United States1448 Posts
On October 23 2011 00:32 Midgetman101 wrote: i love all the protoss whine in here Lol. Well, Blizzard fixed 'issues' that terran didn't have before fixing any toss issues. Its very warranted. I main protoss. Im excited. These aren't the changes we expected or think we need, but they could be some changes that make very interesting micro intensive strategies. I like what we got. Blink with recall is just going to be so awesome. I can do shit now that will allow me to get a third base and not be 'allin' because i can't retreat. | ||
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atavus
France60 Posts
On October 23 2011 00:28 GurZtly wrote: I think, if blizzard would want to make a esports only elitist starcraft, it would be no problem. But like David kim said with the new thor: It is for players how want that kind of uber unit.... This game is played by ~ 3 million people. 1000 or so of them are very very very good. Fact is they just dropped Mothership who was supposed to be the Uber toss Unit after consecutive nerf. Now they give terran an Uber unit, thing here just seems totally wrong. Uber unit have nothing to do in starcraft 2. What will they do when LotV release ? They will realise that thor in HotS was a bad idea & will give zerg an Uber unit ? | ||
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