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On October 17 2011 11:17 Gann1 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 11:13 trikshun wrote:On October 17 2011 11:02 Gann1 wrote:On October 17 2011 10:28 windsupernova wrote:On October 17 2011 10:03 Gann1 wrote:On October 15 2011 09:18 Vaelone wrote:
he'd streamroll everyone, especially considering it's easier to macro in sc2.
Shouldn't that actually work against him or is my logic flawed. oov wasn't actually great at macro mechanics, he was great at using strategies that allowed him to take a much faster 3rd base than his peers at the time which allowed him to get more units out. he was a strategical player, but his strategies focused on securing resources rather than all-in attacks edited for clarity What?! While I agree that his strategies revolved around securing a lot of resources early. He was better at Macro than most of his peers at that time. if you go back and watch some oov games, you'll see what i mean. he had a LOT more factories than he should need for his base count in most games, which signifies loose mechanics his mechanics were good for the time but not great. the point I'm trying to make is that it was his mind that made him the cheater terran, not his hand speed. that'll translate over well into sc2, hand speed/mechanics wouldn't translate over as well since there isn't as much that separates great mechanics from good mechanics in sc2 @guy above me - you don't need to give me the bw is harder lecture, i'm a bw player and still greatly prefer it over sc2  If he can sufficiently afford all those factories than why not? You aren't proving a point he can afford those factories because he missed production cycles
Doubt it.
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On October 17 2011 11:22 trikshun wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 11:17 Gann1 wrote:On October 17 2011 11:13 trikshun wrote:On October 17 2011 11:02 Gann1 wrote:On October 17 2011 10:28 windsupernova wrote:On October 17 2011 10:03 Gann1 wrote:On October 15 2011 09:18 Vaelone wrote:
he'd streamroll everyone, especially considering it's easier to macro in sc2.
Shouldn't that actually work against him or is my logic flawed. oov wasn't actually great at macro mechanics, he was great at using strategies that allowed him to take a much faster 3rd base than his peers at the time which allowed him to get more units out. he was a strategical player, but his strategies focused on securing resources rather than all-in attacks edited for clarity What?! While I agree that his strategies revolved around securing a lot of resources early. He was better at Macro than most of his peers at that time. if you go back and watch some oov games, you'll see what i mean. he had a LOT more factories than he should need for his base count in most games, which signifies loose mechanics his mechanics were good for the time but not great. the point I'm trying to make is that it was his mind that made him the cheater terran, not his hand speed. that'll translate over well into sc2, hand speed/mechanics wouldn't translate over as well since there isn't as much that separates great mechanics from good mechanics in sc2 @guy above me - you don't need to give me the bw is harder lecture, i'm a bw player and still greatly prefer it over sc2 If he can sufficiently afford all those factories than why not? You aren't proving a point he can afford those factories because he missed production cycles Doubt it.
Gann is simply saying that he wouldn't be able to afford continuous production from the number of factories he had in his games. It's like going 6 gate off 1 base for protoss or something like that, you can only have production out of all of them if you miss production cycles, and it's generally known how many facs you can support off 1,2, and even 3 base in bw, so it's easy to tell if oov had too many. His macro was good, but it was the strategies that safely got early 3rds that made him unstoppable.
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On October 17 2011 10:34 0neder wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 10:29 Ciryandor wrote:On October 17 2011 10:10 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
I wish BW players didn't lose their passion. I saw it with oov, I saw it with Savior. They have a few big years, and then after that, it looks like they just get a bit worn-down and undetermined, and they just don't play so well anymore.
It has nothing to do with "getting old" like in real sports, as early-mid 20s is not old in the slightest and tip-top physical condition isn't in the slightest required for professional BW. They just lose their passion and lose determination to be the best. It's sad ;(.
Let's face it. If these legends had the same mentality, demeanor, and determination as in their big years, they'd still be kicking ass and taking names in BW to this day :S oov was more team than me in orientation; he wasn't one of the guys who would chase titles because he just wanted to; focusing more on team led him to retire early and instead be the coaching backbone for SKT T1. Look what it developed. Midas and Fantasy; the best team-grown terran talents in progaming. (Flash doesn't count, his talent is natural. :p) Let's face it, esports is a lot harder to psychologically maintain that form than regular sports, since it's so disconnected from reality and physicality.
If only there was some epic player with a psyche of titanium. They'd be kicking ass for a decade or longer, considering that you don't really get physically "old" in competitive gaming :D. Flash is already past the "3-year pwnage point" some of the other greats have had. Let's see if he can continue  (I am quite certain he will).
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On October 17 2011 11:42 Emata wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 11:22 trikshun wrote:On October 17 2011 11:17 Gann1 wrote:On October 17 2011 11:13 trikshun wrote:On October 17 2011 11:02 Gann1 wrote:On October 17 2011 10:28 windsupernova wrote:On October 17 2011 10:03 Gann1 wrote:On October 15 2011 09:18 Vaelone wrote:
he'd streamroll everyone, especially considering it's easier to macro in sc2.
Shouldn't that actually work against him or is my logic flawed. oov wasn't actually great at macro mechanics, he was great at using strategies that allowed him to take a much faster 3rd base than his peers at the time which allowed him to get more units out. he was a strategical player, but his strategies focused on securing resources rather than all-in attacks edited for clarity What?! While I agree that his strategies revolved around securing a lot of resources early. He was better at Macro than most of his peers at that time. if you go back and watch some oov games, you'll see what i mean. he had a LOT more factories than he should need for his base count in most games, which signifies loose mechanics his mechanics were good for the time but not great. the point I'm trying to make is that it was his mind that made him the cheater terran, not his hand speed. that'll translate over well into sc2, hand speed/mechanics wouldn't translate over as well since there isn't as much that separates great mechanics from good mechanics in sc2 @guy above me - you don't need to give me the bw is harder lecture, i'm a bw player and still greatly prefer it over sc2 If he can sufficiently afford all those factories than why not? You aren't proving a point he can afford those factories because he missed production cycles Doubt it. Gann is simply saying that he wouldn't be able to afford continuous production from the number of factories he had in his games. It's like going 6 gate off 1 base for protoss or something like that, you can only have production out of all of them if you miss production cycles, and it's generally known how many facs you can support off 1,2, and even 3 base in bw, so it's easy to tell if oov had too many. His macro was good, but it was the strategies that safely got early 3rds that made him unstoppable.
I know that... But were talking about macro that would be poor macro if he is missing production cycles that means he has poor macro. But yet he is known for having insane macro
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On October 17 2011 11:44 trikshun wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 11:42 Emata wrote:On October 17 2011 11:22 trikshun wrote:On October 17 2011 11:17 Gann1 wrote:On October 17 2011 11:13 trikshun wrote:On October 17 2011 11:02 Gann1 wrote:On October 17 2011 10:28 windsupernova wrote:On October 17 2011 10:03 Gann1 wrote:On October 15 2011 09:18 Vaelone wrote:
he'd streamroll everyone, especially considering it's easier to macro in sc2.
Shouldn't that actually work against him or is my logic flawed. oov wasn't actually great at macro mechanics, he was great at using strategies that allowed him to take a much faster 3rd base than his peers at the time which allowed him to get more units out. he was a strategical player, but his strategies focused on securing resources rather than all-in attacks edited for clarity What?! While I agree that his strategies revolved around securing a lot of resources early. He was better at Macro than most of his peers at that time. if you go back and watch some oov games, you'll see what i mean. he had a LOT more factories than he should need for his base count in most games, which signifies loose mechanics his mechanics were good for the time but not great. the point I'm trying to make is that it was his mind that made him the cheater terran, not his hand speed. that'll translate over well into sc2, hand speed/mechanics wouldn't translate over as well since there isn't as much that separates great mechanics from good mechanics in sc2 @guy above me - you don't need to give me the bw is harder lecture, i'm a bw player and still greatly prefer it over sc2 If he can sufficiently afford all those factories than why not? You aren't proving a point he can afford those factories because he missed production cycles Doubt it. Gann is simply saying that he wouldn't be able to afford continuous production from the number of factories he had in his games. It's like going 6 gate off 1 base for protoss or something like that, you can only have production out of all of them if you miss production cycles, and it's generally known how many facs you can support off 1,2, and even 3 base in bw, so it's easy to tell if oov had too many. His macro was good, but it was the strategies that safely got early 3rds that made him unstoppable. I know that... But were talking about macro that would be poor macro if he is missing production cycles that means he has poor macro. But yet he is known for having insane macro
The reason he is known for macro is because he played with the greediest openings that allowed him a much stronger economy to work with than other players in that era had.
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On October 17 2011 11:02 Gann1 wrote:
his mechanics were good for the time but not great. the point I'm trying to make is that it was his mind that made him the cheater terran, not his hand speed. that'll translate over well into sc2, hand speed/mechanics wouldn't translate over as well since there isn't as much that separates great mechanics from good mechanics in sc2
Everyone keeps saying this, but we need to remind ourselves that one year into SC2, we have TWO king players in MVP and Nestea have won most of the individual leagues. So, looks like macro sill means a lot.
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OH MY GOD
He's gonna rape hard when he gets back into progaming as a player >.<
I wonder if it was a good idea for him to retire SC1 to become coach (talking about his self-benefit only) even if he got injured and would have to take a relatively long break
On October 17 2011 12:21 0neder wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 11:02 Gann1 wrote:
his mechanics were good for the time but not great. the point I'm trying to make is that it was his mind that made him the cheater terran, not his hand speed. that'll translate over well into sc2, hand speed/mechanics wouldn't translate over as well since there isn't as much that separates great mechanics from good mechanics in sc2
Everyone keeps saying this, but we need to remind ourselves that one year into SC2, we have TWO king players in MVP and Nestea have won most of the individual leagues. So, looks like macro sill means a lot.
Not to mention that what gann1 makes no logical sense. It doesn't mean that the skill difference is smaller just because it's easier to macro. No one will ever be perfect; people who macro better will still get an advantage from that. And people keep using mechanics incorrectly. For example in the last sentence i'm pretty sure you mean macro (or possibly speed?), because obviously, I think any pro should know how to shift click, make control groups, know the feel of the acceleration/stutter step of their units, how to create locations, etc.
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So awesome! Watching SC2 replays of iloveOOv right now...
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Another bonjwa playing SC2 actively?
This is something to get excited about people. Let's hope he keeps it up and decides to compete after his military service is over.
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No point commenting on his play in the games. For all we know he may just be playing for fun and not even concentrating.
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On October 17 2011 11:42 Emata wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 11:22 trikshun wrote:On October 17 2011 11:17 Gann1 wrote:On October 17 2011 11:13 trikshun wrote:On October 17 2011 11:02 Gann1 wrote:On October 17 2011 10:28 windsupernova wrote:On October 17 2011 10:03 Gann1 wrote:On October 15 2011 09:18 Vaelone wrote:
he'd streamroll everyone, especially considering it's easier to macro in sc2.
Shouldn't that actually work against him or is my logic flawed. oov wasn't actually great at macro mechanics, he was great at using strategies that allowed him to take a much faster 3rd base than his peers at the time which allowed him to get more units out. he was a strategical player, but his strategies focused on securing resources rather than all-in attacks edited for clarity What?! While I agree that his strategies revolved around securing a lot of resources early. He was better at Macro than most of his peers at that time. if you go back and watch some oov games, you'll see what i mean. he had a LOT more factories than he should need for his base count in most games, which signifies loose mechanics his mechanics were good for the time but not great. the point I'm trying to make is that it was his mind that made him the cheater terran, not his hand speed. that'll translate over well into sc2, hand speed/mechanics wouldn't translate over as well since there isn't as much that separates great mechanics from good mechanics in sc2 @guy above me - you don't need to give me the bw is harder lecture, i'm a bw player and still greatly prefer it over sc2 If he can sufficiently afford all those factories than why not? You aren't proving a point he can afford those factories because he missed production cycles Doubt it. Gann is simply saying that he wouldn't be able to afford continuous production from the number of factories he had in his games. It's like going 6 gate off 1 base for protoss or something like that, you can only have production out of all of them if you miss production cycles, and it's generally known how many facs you can support off 1,2, and even 3 base in bw, so it's easy to tell if oov had too many. His macro was good, but it was the strategies that safely got early 3rds that made him unstoppable.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=81288
I hope this settles this debate about what made oov the cheater terran.
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On October 17 2011 11:44 trikshun wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 11:42 Emata wrote:On October 17 2011 11:22 trikshun wrote:On October 17 2011 11:17 Gann1 wrote:On October 17 2011 11:13 trikshun wrote:On October 17 2011 11:02 Gann1 wrote:On October 17 2011 10:28 windsupernova wrote:On October 17 2011 10:03 Gann1 wrote:On October 15 2011 09:18 Vaelone wrote:
he'd streamroll everyone, especially considering it's easier to macro in sc2.
Shouldn't that actually work against him or is my logic flawed. oov wasn't actually great at macro mechanics, he was great at using strategies that allowed him to take a much faster 3rd base than his peers at the time which allowed him to get more units out. he was a strategical player, but his strategies focused on securing resources rather than all-in attacks edited for clarity What?! While I agree that his strategies revolved around securing a lot of resources early. He was better at Macro than most of his peers at that time. if you go back and watch some oov games, you'll see what i mean. he had a LOT more factories than he should need for his base count in most games, which signifies loose mechanics his mechanics were good for the time but not great. the point I'm trying to make is that it was his mind that made him the cheater terran, not his hand speed. that'll translate over well into sc2, hand speed/mechanics wouldn't translate over as well since there isn't as much that separates great mechanics from good mechanics in sc2 @guy above me - you don't need to give me the bw is harder lecture, i'm a bw player and still greatly prefer it over sc2 If he can sufficiently afford all those factories than why not? You aren't proving a point he can afford those factories because he missed production cycles Doubt it. Gann is simply saying that he wouldn't be able to afford continuous production from the number of factories he had in his games. It's like going 6 gate off 1 base for protoss or something like that, you can only have production out of all of them if you miss production cycles, and it's generally known how many facs you can support off 1,2, and even 3 base in bw, so it's easy to tell if oov had too many. His macro was good, but it was the strategies that safely got early 3rds that made him unstoppable. I know that... But were talking about macro that would be poor macro if he is missing production cycles that means he has poor macro. But yet he is known for having insane macro
._. Missing production cycles is something you have to consciously do to have good infrastructure. Great macro players dont have a linear increase in economy and army, its exponential cos they cut and reprioritise things in the game. You see lots of really good protoss and terrans skip production all the time when they want more production facilities/expos to give them an advatage at a later time. Even some zergs like moonglade play a style where they bank minerals/gas well before they max so they can decide if they want to make units or mass expand.
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United Kingdom12024 Posts
OOv is playing SC2? :O!
SlayerS.OOv please <3333
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im the hugest iloveOOV fan. I even have the same hotkey setup just because of him :D. He's so awesome.
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On October 15 2011 03:47 Aterons_toss wrote:
Seems fake, top 500 korea... only due to his mechanics he should be 300 or so imo but then again im not sure how many smurfs the pros got in that top so it might be true...
Also... i didn't knew Korea still has the forced military service, seems a lil un civilized for a country such as S Korea but if it get IloveOOv to play SC2 instead of coach sc1 fuck yeah... go military service :D
Uncivilized? You've heard about North Korea right? Its directly north of South Korea. I think, just as much as Israel, they 100% need forced military service
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Come on Bus driver!Starcraft 2 need your genius builds!
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hmm but oov doesnt cap the OO, so it cant be him;;
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well at least he's better than yellow.
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Q: When you were playing Starcraft 1, you once said that if you failed to win a tournament within a year, you would retire from gaming. Does this win make you think about your past?
A: Yes it does. Thinking back now, it was precisely because I did that, that I am able to win this tournament today. It also reminds me of iloveoov (SKT1 Terran Coach), who picked me at my first try. Recently, he's also been watching Starcraft 2, and I guess he'd also be watching this tournament. I would like to take this opportunity to thank him.
from MMA code S interview!
JESUS CHRIST
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EPT
