I'm really excited about the changes. They had a rocky start, but I feel as if they have made so much progress in creating a tournament that really caters to its viewers in a way that makes watching games get played fun and easy. I think that given some more time MLG will be a shinning example of how a professional tournament should be handled.
On September 30 2011 19:12 mTw|NarutO wrote: I'm going to state my honest opinion about why not a lot of European foreigners are being sent to MLG and please don't take it as offence. I do love MLG, love watching and would always support them but for foreign progamers its the following:
MLG is a well run tournament with a decent prize pool and the chance to qualify for an even bigger event the MLG finals with amazing price pool. The thing is, that with the current system of the pool play and a really hard to pass open bracket and increasing number of Korean players, its just very unlikely or in no relation to costs to make a name for yourself or your team.
HasuObs is going to MLG Orlando because he won a qualifier now, but I doubt mouz would send him, MorroW etc to MLG just because the costs are so high and the chance for them, even though they are insanely good, is very slim to get into the prize zone.
a) it costs too much for foreign teams - no one is to blame b) the relation between costs/reward is too low - once again no one to blame c) more Koreans mean its even more unlikely to get some money out of the tournament
thus: we see more NA players and invited Koreans than EU foreign players. Obviously 'high class' foreigners with their own sponsor or really rich teams can send people to MLG... others teams could probably as well, but its just not worth it.
mouz and ALTERNATE could for sure send Socke, ClouD, MorroW, HasuObs... but for what reason (especially towards the end of the MLG qualifiers) when the chances actually decrease to get some value out of it.
There are plenty of tournaments in Europe which are open with not as much of a prize pool, but actually low to no costs and actually good chances of winning MORE than MLG even with a lesser prize pool.
I love MLG, I love their production, improvements and contact with the community, but thats just nothing they could do something about. Maybe they could change their system slightly so people actually have to qualify for pool play and have 1 invite for each group, but thats nothing I have to decide or want to think about.
To the person who said what Dreamhack & IEM are doing wrong: MLG has far more events per year and thus: a lot of viewers. :-)! I really enjoy all the tournaments, but people just have to realize its not always possible to have ALL players from all over the world attend at all tournaments.
Excellent post. Unfortunately, MLG decided to retain their system because apparently they think being consistently bad is better than mixing things up and fixing a huge mistake.
And for anyone who says MLG wanted to preserve the integrity of their system, OUT OF NOWHERE THEY DECIDED TO FLY OVER KOREANS AND SEED THEM INTO POOL PLAY.
On September 30 2011 19:12 mTw|NarutO wrote: I'm going to state my honest opinion about why not a lot of European foreigners are being sent to MLG and please don't take it as offence. I do love MLG, love watching and would always support them but for foreign progamers its the following:
MLG is a well run tournament with a decent prize pool and the chance to qualify for an even bigger event the MLG finals with amazing price pool. The thing is, that with the current system of the pool play and a really hard to pass open bracket and increasing number of Korean players, its just very unlikely or in no relation to costs to make a name for yourself or your team.
HasuObs is going to MLG Orlando because he won a qualifier now, but I doubt mouz would send him, MorroW etc to MLG just because the costs are so high and the chance for them, even though they are insanely good, is very slim to get into the prize zone.
a) it costs too much for foreign teams - no one is to blame b) the relation between costs/reward is too low - once again no one to blame c) more Koreans mean its even more unlikely to get some money out of the tournament
thus: we see more NA players and invited Koreans than EU foreign players. Obviously 'high class' foreigners with their own sponsor or really rich teams can send people to MLG... others teams could probably as well, but its just not worth it.
mouz and ALTERNATE could for sure send Socke, ClouD, MorroW, HasuObs... but for what reason (especially towards the end of the MLG qualifiers) when the chances actually decrease to get some value out of it.
There are plenty of tournaments in Europe which are open with not as much of a prize pool, but actually low to no costs and actually good chances of winning MORE than MLG even with a lesser prize pool.
I love MLG, I love their production, improvements and contact with the community, but thats just nothing they could do something about. Maybe they could change their system slightly so people actually have to qualify for pool play and have 1 invite for each group, but thats nothing I have to decide or want to think about.
To the person who said what Dreamhack & IEM are doing wrong: MLG has far more events per year and thus: a lot of viewers. :-)! I really enjoy all the tournaments, but people just have to realize its not always possible to have ALL players from all over the world attend at all tournaments.
Excellent post. Unfortunately, MLG decided to retain their system because apparently they think being consistently bad is better than mixing things up and fixing a huge mistake.
And for anyone who says MLG wanted to preserve the integrity of their system, OUT OF NOWHERE THEY DECIDED TO FLY OVER KOREANS AND SEED THEM INTO POOL PLAY.
Because changing it halfway through the season would pretty much nullify the success of what the players have achieved at the beginning, even if you don't think that they are significant.
MLG knows they have a botched system and they do admit it. They probably have new seeding plans next year.
And what's wrong with the LXP? The Koreans they have invited thus far have never failed to disappoint, barring Trickster. The crowd loves them dearly.
On September 30 2011 19:12 mTw|NarutO wrote: I'm going to state my honest opinion about why not a lot of European foreigners are being sent to MLG and please don't take it as offence. I do love MLG, love watching and would always support them but for foreign progamers its the following:
MLG is a well run tournament with a decent prize pool and the chance to qualify for an even bigger event the MLG finals with amazing price pool. The thing is, that with the current system of the pool play and a really hard to pass open bracket and increasing number of Korean players, its just very unlikely or in no relation to costs to make a name for yourself or your team.
HasuObs is going to MLG Orlando because he won a qualifier now, but I doubt mouz would send him, MorroW etc to MLG just because the costs are so high and the chance for them, even though they are insanely good, is very slim to get into the prize zone.
a) it costs too much for foreign teams - no one is to blame b) the relation between costs/reward is too low - once again no one to blame c) more Koreans mean its even more unlikely to get some money out of the tournament
thus: we see more NA players and invited Koreans than EU foreign players. Obviously 'high class' foreigners with their own sponsor or really rich teams can send people to MLG... others teams could probably as well, but its just not worth it.
mouz and ALTERNATE could for sure send Socke, ClouD, MorroW, HasuObs... but for what reason (especially towards the end of the MLG qualifiers) when the chances actually decrease to get some value out of it.
There are plenty of tournaments in Europe which are open with not as much of a prize pool, but actually low to no costs and actually good chances of winning MORE than MLG even with a lesser prize pool.
I love MLG, I love their production, improvements and contact with the community, but thats just nothing they could do something about. Maybe they could change their system slightly so people actually have to qualify for pool play and have 1 invite for each group, but thats nothing I have to decide or want to think about.
To the person who said what Dreamhack & IEM are doing wrong: MLG has far more events per year and thus: a lot of viewers. :-)! I really enjoy all the tournaments, but people just have to realize its not always possible to have ALL players from all over the world attend at all tournaments.
Excellent post. Unfortunately, MLG decided to retain their system because apparently they think being consistently bad is better than mixing things up and fixing a huge mistake.
And for anyone who says MLG wanted to preserve the integrity of their system, OUT OF NOWHERE THEY DECIDED TO FLY OVER KOREANS AND SEED THEM INTO POOL PLAY.
On September 30 2011 19:12 mTw|NarutO wrote: I'm going to state my honest opinion about why not a lot of European foreigners are being sent to MLG and please don't take it as offence. I do love MLG, love watching and would always support them but for foreign progamers its the following:
MLG is a well run tournament with a decent prize pool and the chance to qualify for an even bigger event the MLG finals with amazing price pool. The thing is, that with the current system of the pool play and a really hard to pass open bracket and increasing number of Korean players, its just very unlikely or in no relation to costs to make a name for yourself or your team.
HasuObs is going to MLG Orlando because he won a qualifier now, but I doubt mouz would send him, MorroW etc to MLG just because the costs are so high and the chance for them, even though they are insanely good, is very slim to get into the prize zone.
a) it costs too much for foreign teams - no one is to blame b) the relation between costs/reward is too low - once again no one to blame c) more Koreans mean its even more unlikely to get some money out of the tournament
thus: we see more NA players and invited Koreans than EU foreign players. Obviously 'high class' foreigners with their own sponsor or really rich teams can send people to MLG... others teams could probably as well, but its just not worth it.
mouz and ALTERNATE could for sure send Socke, ClouD, MorroW, HasuObs... but for what reason (especially towards the end of the MLG qualifiers) when the chances actually decrease to get some value out of it.
There are plenty of tournaments in Europe which are open with not as much of a prize pool, but actually low to no costs and actually good chances of winning MORE than MLG even with a lesser prize pool.
I love MLG, I love their production, improvements and contact with the community, but thats just nothing they could do something about. Maybe they could change their system slightly so people actually have to qualify for pool play and have 1 invite for each group, but thats nothing I have to decide or want to think about.
To the person who said what Dreamhack & IEM are doing wrong: MLG has far more events per year and thus: a lot of viewers. :-)! I really enjoy all the tournaments, but people just have to realize its not always possible to have ALL players from all over the world attend at all tournaments.
Excellent post. Unfortunately, MLG decided to retain their system because apparently they think being consistently bad is better than mixing things up and fixing a huge mistake.
And for anyone who says MLG wanted to preserve the integrity of their system, OUT OF NOWHERE THEY DECIDED TO FLY OVER KOREANS AND SEED THEM INTO POOL PLAY.
this is a problem because?
Read the post of the person above you. People like him defend MLG's failure to fix their admittedly broken system mid season because they say it would undermine the system MLG set out at the beginning of the season.
However, in MLG Dallas, the first event of the SC2 season, MLG did not invite Koreans. The next event, they did. Moreover, they seeded the Koreans directly into pool play. Essentially, MLG recognized their tournament didn't have the best players in the world and they fixed the problem. I agree with you that this a good thing.
That said, Sundance has been speaking out of both sides of his mouth. He himself has said changing the system mid season would be unfair to the players. Yet, he did it before regarding Korean invites, and it was great success.
It's hypocritical of MLG to refuse fix one thing because it would be 'unfair,' when they already took a drastic step by inviting Koreans. In fact, whatever changes they make to fix their embarrassing points system would likely be much less drastic then the step of inviting Koreans, because ever since they invited them Koreans have swept the podium.
On September 30 2011 19:12 mTw|NarutO wrote: I'm going to state my honest opinion about why not a lot of European foreigners are being sent to MLG and please don't take it as offence. I do love MLG, love watching and would always support them but for foreign progamers its the following:
MLG is a well run tournament with a decent prize pool and the chance to qualify for an even bigger event the MLG finals with amazing price pool. The thing is, that with the current system of the pool play and a really hard to pass open bracket and increasing number of Korean players, its just very unlikely or in no relation to costs to make a name for yourself or your team.
HasuObs is going to MLG Orlando because he won a qualifier now, but I doubt mouz would send him, MorroW etc to MLG just because the costs are so high and the chance for them, even though they are insanely good, is very slim to get into the prize zone.
a) it costs too much for foreign teams - no one is to blame b) the relation between costs/reward is too low - once again no one to blame c) more Koreans mean its even more unlikely to get some money out of the tournament
thus: we see more NA players and invited Koreans than EU foreign players. Obviously 'high class' foreigners with their own sponsor or really rich teams can send people to MLG... others teams could probably as well, but its just not worth it.
mouz and ALTERNATE could for sure send Socke, ClouD, MorroW, HasuObs... but for what reason (especially towards the end of the MLG qualifiers) when the chances actually decrease to get some value out of it.
There are plenty of tournaments in Europe which are open with not as much of a prize pool, but actually low to no costs and actually good chances of winning MORE than MLG even with a lesser prize pool.
I love MLG, I love their production, improvements and contact with the community, but thats just nothing they could do something about. Maybe they could change their system slightly so people actually have to qualify for pool play and have 1 invite for each group, but thats nothing I have to decide or want to think about.
To the person who said what Dreamhack & IEM are doing wrong: MLG has far more events per year and thus: a lot of viewers. :-)! I really enjoy all the tournaments, but people just have to realize its not always possible to have ALL players from all over the world attend at all tournaments.
Excellent post. Unfortunately, MLG decided to retain their system because apparently they think being consistently bad is better than mixing things up and fixing a huge mistake.
And for anyone who says MLG wanted to preserve the integrity of their system, OUT OF NOWHERE THEY DECIDED TO FLY OVER KOREANS AND SEED THEM INTO POOL PLAY.
this is a problem because?
Read the post of the person above you. People like him defend MLG's failure to fix their admittedly broken system mid season because they say it would undermine the system MLG set out at the beginning of the season.
However, in MLG Dallas, the first event of the SC2 season, MLG did not invite Koreans. The next event, they did. Moreover, they seeded the Koreans directly into pool play. Essentially, MLG recognized their tournament didn't have the best players in the world and they fixed the problem. I agree with you that this a good thing.
That said, Sundance has been speaking out of both sides of his mouth. He himself has said changing the system mid season would be unfair to the players. Yet, he did it before regarding Korean invites, and it was great success.
It's hypocritical of MLG to refuse fix one thing because it would be 'unfair,' when they already took a drastic step by inviting Koreans. In fact, whatever changes they make to fix their embarrassing points system would likely be much less drastic then the step of inviting Koreans, because ever since they invited them Koreans have swept the podium.
I agree that the point system is pretty bad and needs changing but you really can't hate on MLG for getting the koreans involved in their tournaments I mean with foreigners going to Korea and Koreans joining foreigner teams left right and center you can't realistically claim to be hosting a legit world class tournament if you don't have the koreans playing in it.
Now I know europe's got amazing players and having the best europeans like stephano mana and thorzain playing in MLG's regularly would actually make it possible for a foreigner to take the win but you can't compare european stars to korean stars... If I had to choose I'd much rather see DRG, Bomber, MVP, Boxer, MMA, Losira, MC, etc than any group of europeans.
I think there's no simple solution for this but I think these changes would contribute:
1. MLG decides to reset/revamp their point system so that people who consistantly get crushed go back to the open bracket and the players who get through the bracket are actually rewarded at the next event.
2. Some people like foreigners, some people like koreans, some people simply like starcraft but it would definately be bad for MLG and the foreign scene if every single pool was filled with koreans, as such I think they should've added a pool or made pools larger when they started inviting koreans. The same could be done now for europeans, add a pool and an extra player in every pool and you can now invite 2-6 european stars to MLG, attracting a much larger audience and increasing the foreigner's chances (significantly).
3. The prize pool gets bigger, and not only for top finishers. By now alot of the best foreigners have made peace with the fact that winning MLG isn't what it was 4 months ago but if you were able to win a reasonnable amount of money (at least enough to cover tournament expenses and bring something home) just for making top 20/clearing the open bracket it would definately attract more pros from overseas. Obviously MLG can't just decide to triple their prize pool so this process will probably happen over time but I think it's essential.
4. The lack of coverage on games was the main (only) issue I ever had with MLG productions and I think they've made a great decision with their recent announcement but I hope they take it even further in the near future and start putting observers in every pool play match so that you can ALWAYS at least watch 1 game during the event, with or without commentary. In my opinion this would be essential if they did decide to expand their pools and increase the amount of players in pool play.
On September 30 2011 19:12 mTw|NarutO wrote: I'm going to state my honest opinion about why not a lot of European foreigners are being sent to MLG and please don't take it as offence. I do love MLG, love watching and would always support them but for foreign progamers its the following:
MLG is a well run tournament with a decent prize pool and the chance to qualify for an even bigger event the MLG finals with amazing price pool. The thing is, that with the current system of the pool play and a really hard to pass open bracket and increasing number of Korean players, its just very unlikely or in no relation to costs to make a name for yourself or your team.
HasuObs is going to MLG Orlando because he won a qualifier now, but I doubt mouz would send him, MorroW etc to MLG just because the costs are so high and the chance for them, even though they are insanely good, is very slim to get into the prize zone.
a) it costs too much for foreign teams - no one is to blame b) the relation between costs/reward is too low - once again no one to blame c) more Koreans mean its even more unlikely to get some money out of the tournament
thus: we see more NA players and invited Koreans than EU foreign players. Obviously 'high class' foreigners with their own sponsor or really rich teams can send people to MLG... others teams could probably as well, but its just not worth it.
mouz and ALTERNATE could for sure send Socke, ClouD, MorroW, HasuObs... but for what reason (especially towards the end of the MLG qualifiers) when the chances actually decrease to get some value out of it.
There are plenty of tournaments in Europe which are open with not as much of a prize pool, but actually low to no costs and actually good chances of winning MORE than MLG even with a lesser prize pool.
I love MLG, I love their production, improvements and contact with the community, but thats just nothing they could do something about. Maybe they could change their system slightly so people actually have to qualify for pool play and have 1 invite for each group, but thats nothing I have to decide or want to think about.
To the person who said what Dreamhack & IEM are doing wrong: MLG has far more events per year and thus: a lot of viewers. :-)! I really enjoy all the tournaments, but people just have to realize its not always possible to have ALL players from all over the world attend at all tournaments.
Excellent post. Unfortunately, MLG decided to retain their system because apparently they think being consistently bad is better than mixing things up and fixing a huge mistake.
And for anyone who says MLG wanted to preserve the integrity of their system, OUT OF NOWHERE THEY DECIDED TO FLY OVER KOREANS AND SEED THEM INTO POOL PLAY.
MLG was smart to fly out koreans because it gave the tournament legitimacy. I don't think any tournament without koreans in it should be considered a high level tournament.
Guys, wait for next year. Points will be erased and (hopefully) the MLG seeding system will change to fit those Europeans in, as well as the risen prize money per tournament. The thing is: changing a system that is supposed to be used for the final "big" tournament mid-season is just wrong. Inconsistency is the word I believe. They want to remain consistent, even if it means maintaining bad players in pool play.
On October 01 2011 06:53 Zephirdd wrote: Guys, wait for next year. Points will be erased and (hopefully) the MLG seeding system will change to fit those Europeans in, as well as the risen prize money per tournament. The thing is: changing a system that is supposed to be used for the final "big" tournament mid-season is just wrong. Inconsistency is the word I believe. They want to remain consistent, even if it means maintaining bad players in pool play.
2012 will be THE year for MLG.
Did you read the big red letters that have been quoted several times?
On October 01 2011 06:53 Zephirdd wrote: Guys, wait for next year. Points will be erased and (hopefully) the MLG seeding system will change to fit those Europeans in, as well as the risen prize money per tournament. The thing is: changing a system that is supposed to be used for the final "big" tournament mid-season is just wrong. Inconsistency is the word I believe. They want to remain consistent, even if it means maintaining bad players in pool play.
2012 will be THE year for MLG.
Did you read the big red letters that have been quoted several times?
"out of nowhere" was probably a long and more-than-wanted drawn out discussion on whether it would be good or not for the koreans. Yes, the way it went was bad.
On October 01 2011 06:53 Zephirdd wrote: Guys, wait for next year. Points will be erased and (hopefully) the MLG seeding system will change to fit those Europeans in, as well as the risen prize money per tournament. The thing is: changing a system that is supposed to be used for the final "big" tournament mid-season is just wrong. Inconsistency is the word I believe. They want to remain consistent, even if it means maintaining bad players in pool play.
2012 will be THE year for MLG.
Did you read the big red letters that have been quoted several times?
Bringing in the Koreans didn't change the system or the way points work, its just made the tournament much harder.
On October 01 2011 06:53 Zephirdd wrote: Guys, wait for next year. Points will be erased and (hopefully) the MLG seeding system will change to fit those Europeans in, as well as the risen prize money per tournament. The thing is: changing a system that is supposed to be used for the final "big" tournament mid-season is just wrong. Inconsistency is the word I believe. They want to remain consistent, even if it means maintaining bad players in pool play.
2012 will be THE year for MLG.
Did you read the big red letters that have been quoted several times?
Bringing in the Koreans didn't change the system or the way points work, its just made the tournament much harder.
They seed Koreans into pool play who didn't earn their spots. Imagine Major League Soccer was having its playoffs. Then, without warning, management brought in Man U, Chelsea, and Arsenal who never played a MLS game. Are you telling me that wouldn't be changing the system?
Pools were changed from 5 players to 6 players. That isn't changing the system? I don't mean to be rude, and I do see what you mean, but I just agree with you.
EPT
