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On October 01 2011 15:27 Vasoline73 wrote:
lol at ForGG being undeserving... did Artosis really say that? :/.
Artosis says a lot of dumb shit, I'm not surprised he would say that
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Wow that ForGG vs Huk game was amazing. I can't believe Huk made that comeback, he barely scraped a win on the back of epic micro. It's amazing how 1 well microed Colossus changes the game, even without range. Still, I thought for sure ForGG had it until Huk landed those epic forcefields.
It's obvious that ForGG is already Code A material, at least in TvP. And probably Code S damn soon.
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On October 01 2011 16:00 RoboBob wrote:
Wow that ForGG vs Huk game was amazing. I can't believe Huk made that comeback, he barely scraped a win on the back of epic micro. It's amazing how 1 well microed Colossus changes the game, even without range. Still, I thought for sure ForGG had it until Huk landed those epic forcefields.
It's obvious that ForGG is already Code A material, at least in TvP. And probably Code S damn soon.
What someone was talking about on the last page, the "how does he have so many units" feeling you get from a fOrGG game, was definitely there, his macro's amazing.
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I dont mind usage of strong timings and one base stuff as it's technical and skillfully planned out and executed
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On October 01 2011 16:00 RoboBob wrote:
Wow that ForGG vs Huk game was amazing. I can't believe Huk made that comeback, he barely scraped a win on the back of epic micro. It's amazing how 1 well microed Colossus changes the game, even without range. Still, I thought for sure ForGG had it until Huk landed those epic forcefields.
It's obvious that ForGG is already Code A material, at least in TvP. And probably Code S damn soon.
Where can I watch that?
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On October 01 2011 16:52 decaf wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2011 16:00 RoboBob wrote:
Wow that ForGG vs Huk game was amazing. I can't believe Huk made that comeback, he barely scraped a win on the back of epic micro. It's amazing how 1 well microed Colossus changes the game, even without range. Still, I thought for sure ForGG had it until Huk landed those epic forcefields.
It's obvious that ForGG is already Code A material, at least in TvP. And probably Code S damn soon. Where can I watch that?
http://www.twitch.tv/eghuk/b/296393938
Around 1:35:00 mark, give or take a minute
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On October 01 2011 16:54 Corran wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2011 16:52 decaf wrote:On October 01 2011 16:00 RoboBob wrote:
Wow that ForGG vs Huk game was amazing. I can't believe Huk made that comeback, he barely scraped a win on the back of epic micro. It's amazing how 1 well microed Colossus changes the game, even without range. Still, I thought for sure ForGG had it until Huk landed those epic forcefields.
It's obvious that ForGG is already Code A material, at least in TvP. And probably Code S damn soon. Where can I watch that? http://www.twitch.tv/eghuk/b/296393938Around 1:35:00 mark, give or take a minute
Hmm micro was only decent and he had the upper hand during the drops just didn't utilize the mismatch. Seems like he'll be good though.
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On October 01 2011 05:32 Nouar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2011 05:18 RvB wrote:On October 01 2011 03:24 Spinoza wrote:
So the highest ranked BW pro to switch to sc2 to date is now confirmed as fOrGG. This could be either a switch of epic proportions or an equally epic fail. And how would we know? Given his stature, anything less than one or several major tournament titles is a disappointment, right?
fOrGG, like Boxer, NaDa and July, has gone through the most competitive e-sport ever - Broodwar - to win a major title, albeit in his case only once. My personal guess is the chemistry in KT Rolster did him in. This kid is however only 20yrs old or so, has one Major title to his resume (he killed Kal, Flash and Jaedong to get it) and played a lot of BW games against the very very best up until his retirement.
If you think the Woongjin captain would feild MVP against fOrGG in a hypothetical series at that time when both were active, MVP would likely lose. A hypothetical universe has a foggy shape by its very nature, but is still interesting because all options can be explored without impunity: how would Brazilian Pele match up with Messi of Argentina say, or Superman vs Batman.
The only telemetry we have to work with are the actual accomplishments of players. And this telemetry says that fOrGG is a genuinely more accomplished player in BW than MVP ever was irrespective of MVPs accomplishments in SC2. Conversely, MVP is the norm of accomplishment in SC2 while fOrGG has no norm at all in SC2 (not counting ladder). Well, are all accomplishments if existing, equal then? No, they are not. Recent accomplishments take precedence over distant ones.
The similarity assumption underlies the next step: it is that qualities overlap such that "Similar experiences can guide future reasoning, problem solving and learning". In other words that if your "reasoning, problem solving and learning" can lead you to win Arena MSL in 2008, beating on the way as it were, Kal (protoss), Flash (terran) and Jaedong (Zerg), in that order, at the same time they could all be argued as the best of their respective races, then you should be regarded as a real contender in SC2 too. Why? Because of the similarity assumption, which is, I grant, an abstraction, but real much in the same way that shadows are real.
But there is practical qualitative supporting evidence for this assumption too: all the GSL champions have had career's in BW previously, there are no GSL champions entirely absent a BW career, however limited it might seem after the fact. All the former BW burnouts past their prime, NaDa, July and Boxer are still making waves as solid A or S class players. There is clearly a shadow in play here. But also that recent accomplishments are more important than distant ones.
However much I love SC2, the quantitative and qualitative data suggest there is a significant skill deficit versus top BW players assuming the similarity assumption ( I am repeating myself because this is important god damn it).
fOrGG will be a datapoint to further our understanding of this complex issue.
I highly doubt fOrGGs games will be boring though, given his BW record. GG HF GL forgg isn't nearly as good as he was in his league run. By stating it like you are it looks like he could beat jaedong and flash consistently while he really wasn't close to that. fOrGG record vs Jaedong : 4-1 + 10-04-27 Shinhan09-10 Proleague Roadrunner Win + 09-03-22 Shinhan 2009 Winners .. Medusa Loss + 08-07-26 Arena MSL Tiamat Win + 08-07-26 Arena MSL Othello Win + 08-07-26 Arena MSL Colosseum Win vs Flash : 4-6 + 10-08-12 Bigfile MSL Polaris Rhapsody Loss + 10-08-12 Bigfile MSL Odd-Eye 3 Loss + 10-08-05 Bigfile MSL Fighting Spirit Loss + 09-02-08 Shinhan 2009 Winners .. Rush Hour 3 Loss + 08-07-17 Arena MSL Colosseum Win + 08-07-17 Arena MSL Othello Loss + 08-07-17 Arena MSL Tiamat Win + 08-07-17 Arena MSL Athena Win + 08-07-01 Shinhan08 Proleague Othello Win + 07-10-27 Shinhan07 Proleague R2 Python Loss vs Bisu : 6-3 + 10-10-16 Shinhan10-11 Proleague Circuit Breaker Loss + 08-08-08 WCG2008 Korea Blue Storm Win + 08-08-08 WCG2008 Korea Othello Win + 07-03-10 2007 2nd KeSPA Cup Tau Cross Win + 06-12-23 SKY2006 Proleague R2 Longinus Win + 06-11-29 ODT2006-2 Sin Peaks of Baekdu Win + 06-06-28 2006 Summer ODT Prelims Sin Pioneer Period Loss + 06-06-28 2006 Summer ODT Prelims 815 III Loss + 06-06-28 2006 Summer ODT Prelims Rush Hour 3 Win vs Stork : 2-9. So a combined 16-19 against TaekBangLeeSsang ?! And 14-10 against Bisu/JD/Flash ? YES he could beat Flash and JD consistently, please check your facts before supposing anything. Right it might be a few years ago... but name some players having a 50% record against TBLS please ?
Okay let's analyze this information like I said he was good in his league run but not nearly as good after that so we can substract those games.
forgg v jaedong: 1-1
forgg v flash: 1-5
forgg v Bisu: 6-3
forgg v stork 2-9
forgg v tbls: 10-18 36% winrate
forgg v Bisu/JD/Flash: 8-9 0.47% where most of his wins were against bisu and 5 of his games in 2006 which is when they both werent that good.( it would still give him 4-1 though which is nice ).
Now that still looks quite decent and like I said he wasn't nearly as good as in his league run which is what really matter so lets look at his recent games, all his games in 2010 were losses except against jaedong.
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On October 01 2011 19:47 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2011 05:32 Nouar wrote:On October 01 2011 05:18 RvB wrote:On October 01 2011 03:24 Spinoza wrote:
So the highest ranked BW pro to switch to sc2 to date is now confirmed as fOrGG. This could be either a switch of epic proportions or an equally epic fail. And how would we know? Given his stature, anything less than one or several major tournament titles is a disappointment, right?
fOrGG, like Boxer, NaDa and July, has gone through the most competitive e-sport ever - Broodwar - to win a major title, albeit in his case only once. My personal guess is the chemistry in KT Rolster did him in. This kid is however only 20yrs old or so, has one Major title to his resume (he killed Kal, Flash and Jaedong to get it) and played a lot of BW games against the very very best up until his retirement.
If you think the Woongjin captain would feild MVP against fOrGG in a hypothetical series at that time when both were active, MVP would likely lose. A hypothetical universe has a foggy shape by its very nature, but is still interesting because all options can be explored without impunity: how would Brazilian Pele match up with Messi of Argentina say, or Superman vs Batman.
The only telemetry we have to work with are the actual accomplishments of players. And this telemetry says that fOrGG is a genuinely more accomplished player in BW than MVP ever was irrespective of MVPs accomplishments in SC2. Conversely, MVP is the norm of accomplishment in SC2 while fOrGG has no norm at all in SC2 (not counting ladder). Well, are all accomplishments if existing, equal then? No, they are not. Recent accomplishments take precedence over distant ones.
The similarity assumption underlies the next step: it is that qualities overlap such that "Similar experiences can guide future reasoning, problem solving and learning". In other words that if your "reasoning, problem solving and learning" can lead you to win Arena MSL in 2008, beating on the way as it were, Kal (protoss), Flash (terran) and Jaedong (Zerg), in that order, at the same time they could all be argued as the best of their respective races, then you should be regarded as a real contender in SC2 too. Why? Because of the similarity assumption, which is, I grant, an abstraction, but real much in the same way that shadows are real.
But there is practical qualitative supporting evidence for this assumption too: all the GSL champions have had career's in BW previously, there are no GSL champions entirely absent a BW career, however limited it might seem after the fact. All the former BW burnouts past their prime, NaDa, July and Boxer are still making waves as solid A or S class players. There is clearly a shadow in play here. But also that recent accomplishments are more important than distant ones.
However much I love SC2, the quantitative and qualitative data suggest there is a significant skill deficit versus top BW players assuming the similarity assumption ( I am repeating myself because this is important god damn it).
fOrGG will be a datapoint to further our understanding of this complex issue.
I highly doubt fOrGGs games will be boring though, given his BW record. GG HF GL forgg isn't nearly as good as he was in his league run. By stating it like you are it looks like he could beat jaedong and flash consistently while he really wasn't close to that. fOrGG record vs Jaedong : 4-1 + 10-04-27 Shinhan09-10 Proleague Roadrunner Win + 09-03-22 Shinhan 2009 Winners .. Medusa Loss + 08-07-26 Arena MSL Tiamat Win + 08-07-26 Arena MSL Othello Win + 08-07-26 Arena MSL Colosseum Win vs Flash : 4-6 + 10-08-12 Bigfile MSL Polaris Rhapsody Loss + 10-08-12 Bigfile MSL Odd-Eye 3 Loss + 10-08-05 Bigfile MSL Fighting Spirit Loss + 09-02-08 Shinhan 2009 Winners .. Rush Hour 3 Loss + 08-07-17 Arena MSL Colosseum Win + 08-07-17 Arena MSL Othello Loss + 08-07-17 Arena MSL Tiamat Win + 08-07-17 Arena MSL Athena Win + 08-07-01 Shinhan08 Proleague Othello Win + 07-10-27 Shinhan07 Proleague R2 Python Loss vs Bisu : 6-3 + 10-10-16 Shinhan10-11 Proleague Circuit Breaker Loss + 08-08-08 WCG2008 Korea Blue Storm Win + 08-08-08 WCG2008 Korea Othello Win + 07-03-10 2007 2nd KeSPA Cup Tau Cross Win + 06-12-23 SKY2006 Proleague R2 Longinus Win + 06-11-29 ODT2006-2 Sin Peaks of Baekdu Win + 06-06-28 2006 Summer ODT Prelims Sin Pioneer Period Loss + 06-06-28 2006 Summer ODT Prelims 815 III Loss + 06-06-28 2006 Summer ODT Prelims Rush Hour 3 Win vs Stork : 2-9. So a combined 16-19 against TaekBangLeeSsang ?! And 14-10 against Bisu/JD/Flash ? YES he could beat Flash and JD consistently, please check your facts before supposing anything. Right it might be a few years ago... but name some players having a 50% record against TBLS please ? Okay let's analyze this information like I said he was good in his league run but not nearly as good after that so we can substract those games. forgg v jaedong: 1-1 forgg v flash: 1-5 forgg v Bisu: 6-3 forgg v stork 2-9 forgg v tbls: 10-18 36% winrate forgg v Bisu/JD/Flash: 8-9 0.47% where most of his wins were against bisu and 5 of his games in 2006 which is when they both werent that good.( it would still give him 4-1 though which is nice ). Now that still looks quite decent and like I said he wasn't nearly as good as in his league run which is what really matter so lets look at his recent games, all his games in 2010 were losses except against jaedong.
I'm pretty sure he is just pointing out that ForGG has the ability to do well. Hell after his MSL run he really fell off and rarely would play a macro game. But I also don't see the point to debate any of this either. If he has the desire and practices hard he can and will win. If he doesn't practice then he will have results similar to Yellow Boxer and Nada in this game. Just how it goes.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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On October 01 2011 13:18 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2011 13:16 jalstar wrote:
ForGG isn't going to instantly roll over MVP and NesTea. Unless I'm reading something wrong, ForGG only just now joined a team and has only been laddering with no tournament experience. Top 20 GM Korea is insanely impressive, but Koreans like to save their best strategies for tournaments. Since ForGG's so timing oriented it will take him a while to learn the brutal timings people use in GSL games, but as a BW player he's shown he can put in a lot of dedication and practice. That takes time though, he's not going to win a GSL right away. He's arguably the most in-form BW player to switch, so I certainly hope he can do well.
In-form? His last game was ages ago. And he wasn't in-form when he left, was probably partially one of the reasons he retired. He had the odd great game and got to an RO8 not too long before retirement, but he certainly was past his best in BW. Jangbi has shown that doesn't really mean anything but still..
I think he's right for SC2 due to his playstyle. However i dunno why people are quite so excited; from a competitive point of view sure he will be a new player competing. But timing attacks are hardly the most fun thing to watch, especially in SC2... if he really does play like that it's going to help force the game in the direction it's already going unfortunately. The highest level is getting very timing attack and coinflipping heavy.
As pointed out he was great at macro, but who at the top isn't now really? I feel like he'll have trouble standing out from any of the other top T's style wise. As a player i never particularly had a fondness for and had kinda just fallen off in my mind as the typical standard a-team Terran, good luck to him in SC2 at least.. i'll probably watch his games just out of curiosity. I just don't feel there's much room for innovative/players own style in the game.
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Awesome theme song tbh 
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On October 01 2011 20:03 oneofthem wrote:
not better than mvp
If their respective abilities at the end of their BW careers are any indication, forgg's potential is certainly a cut above MVP.
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On October 01 2011 20:15 infinity2k9 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2011 13:18 ExO_ wrote:On October 01 2011 13:16 jalstar wrote:
ForGG isn't going to instantly roll over MVP and NesTea. Unless I'm reading something wrong, ForGG only just now joined a team and has only been laddering with no tournament experience. Top 20 GM Korea is insanely impressive, but Koreans like to save their best strategies for tournaments. Since ForGG's so timing oriented it will take him a while to learn the brutal timings people use in GSL games, but as a BW player he's shown he can put in a lot of dedication and practice. That takes time though, he's not going to win a GSL right away. He's arguably the most in-form BW player to switch, so I certainly hope he can do well. In-form? His last game was ages ago. And he wasn't in-form when he left, was probably partially one of the reasons he retired. He had the odd great game and got to an RO8 not too long before retirement, but he certainly was past his best in BW. Jangbi has shown that doesn't really mean anything but still..
I really liked ForGG, so I semi-followed him til his retirement. To be honest, he wasn't really even that bad. You don't get the feel that he was getting pwned or anything. Jangbi comparison is apt. Someone who simply looked off but wasn't for lack of skills.
And to be fair, he doesn't have a lot of competition when it comes "most in-form at the switch". MVP was the only person who was seeing time in the PL before the switch. And I don't see MVP as clear cut above as a BW player than ForGG, even with the career-ending slump.
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Another one comes over to the dark side MWAHAHAHA
next stop, jaedong himself!
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On October 01 2011 20:15 infinity2k9 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2011 13:18 ExO_ wrote:On October 01 2011 13:16 jalstar wrote:
ForGG isn't going to instantly roll over MVP and NesTea. Unless I'm reading something wrong, ForGG only just now joined a team and has only been laddering with no tournament experience. Top 20 GM Korea is insanely impressive, but Koreans like to save their best strategies for tournaments. Since ForGG's so timing oriented it will take him a while to learn the brutal timings people use in GSL games, but as a BW player he's shown he can put in a lot of dedication and practice. That takes time though, he's not going to win a GSL right away. He's arguably the most in-form BW player to switch, so I certainly hope he can do well. In-form? His last game was ages ago. And he wasn't in-form when he left, was probably partially one of the reasons he retired. He had the odd great game and got to an RO8 not too long before retirement, but he certainly was past his best in BW. Jangbi has shown that doesn't really mean anything but still.. I think he's right for SC2 due to his playstyle. However i dunno why people are quite so excited; from a competitive point of view sure he will be a new player competing. But timing attacks are hardly the most fun thing to watch, especially in SC2... if he really does play like that it's going to help force the game in the direction it's already going unfortunately. The highest level is getting very timing attack and coinflipping heavy. As pointed out he was great at macro, but who at the top isn't now really? I feel like he'll have trouble standing out from any of the other top T's style wise. As a player i never particularly had a fondness for and had kinda just fallen off in my mind as the typical standard a-team Terran, good luck to him in SC2 at least.. i'll probably watch his games just out of curiosity. I just don't feel there's much room for innovative/players own style in the game.
His last game was ages ago, but he was the only person actively playing in a team house just before he switched over. Sure it was past his best, but his best WAS still his best. Others just surpassed his skill level he didn't get worse over that time.
I don't think he will HAVE to opt for a timing attack build in his game. He might choose to, but he has the talent to do a macro game with more skill applied to it than most of the current Code S players. Now, you don't like that the game keeps heading to 2 base and 3 base timings, but that is how it has to go until a certain race figures out how to keep expanding while crushing the opponents force. That race will dominate for a short period and force others to follow suit. Though really Blizzard fucked up because by the time any of this comes around the next game will be out. There are also some in game concepts that assist greatly to slowing down the evolution of the metagame, but I won't bother to discuss that here.
He was considered great at macro and still was. The game evolved around him and made his macro seem weak in turn he switched to timing attacks to stop others from beating him late game. Will he stand out? Who knows? Ruby did in that one TvP with mines + medics on Match Point. That happened after how many years? He probably won't revolutionize it with unique strategy, but perhaps by solid play he might. I wasn't a fanboy at all, but I think he can do well in SC2 and perhaps move the gameplay away from this batshit it currently is. Also I hope he goes with P or Z cuz too many badass T in the game already.
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On October 01 2011 20:46 firehand101 wrote:
Another one comes over to the dark side MWAHAHAHA
next stop, jaedong himself!
Who is going to fork out the 200k salary? MWAHAHAHAHA?
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On October 01 2011 21:11 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2011 20:46 firehand101 wrote:
Another one comes over to the dark side MWAHAHAHA
next stop, jaedong himself! Who is going to fork out the 200k salary? MWAHAHAHAHA?
GOMTV will, don't be silly. He'll get a monthly salary of 45k =)
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On October 01 2011 12:14 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2011 09:38 SabreUK wrote:On October 01 2011 09:11 Najda wrote:On October 01 2011 08:59 writer22816 wrote:On October 01 2011 05:37 Nesto wrote:
love how some people in here are hyping ForGG, as if he was some broodwar god switching over to sc2.
Yeah he 3-0ed JD in a Starleague, but seriously, that final did probably go down in history as the final with the most imbalanced maps ever: Colloseum 60% TvZ, Othello 68% and Tiamat with a friggin 100% TvZ. Lol.
But hey, if Zergbong can become a leading figure in SC2, ForGG certainly can do so as well. I bet you didn't watch the games. ForGG earned his win. while no one here knows shit about his current condition, if we compare peaks he is by far the best player to switch to sc2. He is miles ahead of people like Zergbong, Iron, MVP and Bomber (in fact I've followed BW for years and i've never even heard of bomber, that is how unknown these players are). in comparison with that company he certainly is a BW god switching over. If we compare peaks wouldn't Nada be the best person to switch over? cant tell if serious... ForGG was godly during he's Arena MSL run in 2008 but promptly went and fell off the face of the earth and didn't make any significant inroads in leagues after that. I wouldn't be so quick to claim ForGG is the strongest player at time of retirement to switch over from BW to SC2. Both MVP and ForGG stopped playing BW at the end of 2010. If these two were to meet in proleague at that time i wouldn;t be able to call a favourite it'd be a 50 - 50 game. Rather the hype around ForGG from people who know him is not from his performance in BW at retirement but rather his unique 'Han Bang' timing attacks would appear to abuse the shit out of SC2 TvX in it''s current state.
ForGG was pretty good the season after he won Arena MSL also . He would have bulldozed through the next MSL and WCG if Stork didn't stop him in both leagues . He took out Bisu and some other good players along the way with some damn strong macro . ForGG was always pretty good until the point where the Lecaf coach stopped using him in PL and KT bought him . After that he became an ordinary terran which slolwy faded away in to mediocrity .
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On October 01 2011 20:01 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2011 19:47 RvB wrote:On October 01 2011 05:32 Nouar wrote:On October 01 2011 05:18 RvB wrote:On October 01 2011 03:24 Spinoza wrote:
So the highest ranked BW pro to switch to sc2 to date is now confirmed as fOrGG. This could be either a switch of epic proportions or an equally epic fail. And how would we know? Given his stature, anything less than one or several major tournament titles is a disappointment, right?
fOrGG, like Boxer, NaDa and July, has gone through the most competitive e-sport ever - Broodwar - to win a major title, albeit in his case only once. My personal guess is the chemistry in KT Rolster did him in. This kid is however only 20yrs old or so, has one Major title to his resume (he killed Kal, Flash and Jaedong to get it) and played a lot of BW games against the very very best up until his retirement.
If you think the Woongjin captain would feild MVP against fOrGG in a hypothetical series at that time when both were active, MVP would likely lose. A hypothetical universe has a foggy shape by its very nature, but is still interesting because all options can be explored without impunity: how would Brazilian Pele match up with Messi of Argentina say, or Superman vs Batman.
The only telemetry we have to work with are the actual accomplishments of players. And this telemetry says that fOrGG is a genuinely more accomplished player in BW than MVP ever was irrespective of MVPs accomplishments in SC2. Conversely, MVP is the norm of accomplishment in SC2 while fOrGG has no norm at all in SC2 (not counting ladder). Well, are all accomplishments if existing, equal then? No, they are not. Recent accomplishments take precedence over distant ones.
The similarity assumption underlies the next step: it is that qualities overlap such that "Similar experiences can guide future reasoning, problem solving and learning". In other words that if your "reasoning, problem solving and learning" can lead you to win Arena MSL in 2008, beating on the way as it were, Kal (protoss), Flash (terran) and Jaedong (Zerg), in that order, at the same time they could all be argued as the best of their respective races, then you should be regarded as a real contender in SC2 too. Why? Because of the similarity assumption, which is, I grant, an abstraction, but real much in the same way that shadows are real.
But there is practical qualitative supporting evidence for this assumption too: all the GSL champions have had career's in BW previously, there are no GSL champions entirely absent a BW career, however limited it might seem after the fact. All the former BW burnouts past their prime, NaDa, July and Boxer are still making waves as solid A or S class players. There is clearly a shadow in play here. But also that recent accomplishments are more important than distant ones.
However much I love SC2, the quantitative and qualitative data suggest there is a significant skill deficit versus top BW players assuming the similarity assumption ( I am repeating myself because this is important god damn it).
fOrGG will be a datapoint to further our understanding of this complex issue.
I highly doubt fOrGGs games will be boring though, given his BW record. GG HF GL forgg isn't nearly as good as he was in his league run. By stating it like you are it looks like he could beat jaedong and flash consistently while he really wasn't close to that. fOrGG record vs Jaedong : 4-1 + 10-04-27 Shinhan09-10 Proleague Roadrunner Win + 09-03-22 Shinhan 2009 Winners .. Medusa Loss + 08-07-26 Arena MSL Tiamat Win + 08-07-26 Arena MSL Othello Win + 08-07-26 Arena MSL Colosseum Win vs Flash : 4-6 + 10-08-12 Bigfile MSL Polaris Rhapsody Loss + 10-08-12 Bigfile MSL Odd-Eye 3 Loss + 10-08-05 Bigfile MSL Fighting Spirit Loss + 09-02-08 Shinhan 2009 Winners .. Rush Hour 3 Loss + 08-07-17 Arena MSL Colosseum Win + 08-07-17 Arena MSL Othello Loss + 08-07-17 Arena MSL Tiamat Win + 08-07-17 Arena MSL Athena Win + 08-07-01 Shinhan08 Proleague Othello Win + 07-10-27 Shinhan07 Proleague R2 Python Loss vs Bisu : 6-3 + 10-10-16 Shinhan10-11 Proleague Circuit Breaker Loss + 08-08-08 WCG2008 Korea Blue Storm Win + 08-08-08 WCG2008 Korea Othello Win + 07-03-10 2007 2nd KeSPA Cup Tau Cross Win + 06-12-23 SKY2006 Proleague R2 Longinus Win + 06-11-29 ODT2006-2 Sin Peaks of Baekdu Win + 06-06-28 2006 Summer ODT Prelims Sin Pioneer Period Loss + 06-06-28 2006 Summer ODT Prelims 815 III Loss + 06-06-28 2006 Summer ODT Prelims Rush Hour 3 Win vs Stork : 2-9. So a combined 16-19 against TaekBangLeeSsang ?! And 14-10 against Bisu/JD/Flash ? YES he could beat Flash and JD consistently, please check your facts before supposing anything. Right it might be a few years ago... but name some players having a 50% record against TBLS please ? Okay let's analyze this information like I said he was good in his league run but not nearly as good after that so we can substract those games. forgg v jaedong: 1-1 forgg v flash: 1-5 forgg v Bisu: 6-3 forgg v stork 2-9 forgg v tbls: 10-18 36% winrate forgg v Bisu/JD/Flash: 8-9 0.47% where most of his wins were against bisu and 5 of his games in 2006 which is when they both werent that good.( it would still give him 4-1 though which is nice ). Now that still looks quite decent and like I said he wasn't nearly as good as in his league run which is what really matter so lets look at his recent games, all his games in 2010 were losses except against jaedong. I'm pretty sure he is just pointing out that ForGG has the ability to do well. Hell after his MSL run he really fell off and rarely would play a macro game. But I also don't see the point to debate any of this either. If he has the desire and practices hard he can and will win. If he doesn't practice then he will have results similar to Yellow Boxer and Nada in this game. Just how it goes.
Hardly fair to make that comparison. Boxer is touted as one of the hardest students of this game. Yellow seems to be doing it for fun, and Nada takes it seriously,GF and school considered.
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EPT
