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On September 25 2011 10:15 WhiteDog wrote:
I mean come on, it's Thorzain... The only one who had show some consistency against koreans.
staying in code s is more consistent then losing in code a.
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Well guys, to be honest not many foreigners have won much big stuff since Koreans started attending those events so achievements as in major wins are kinda hard.
Mana is being underrated hard, he beat idra in the IPL League IIRC, beat Nada and another Korean (sorry I don´t remember who it was) and lost to mc,
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On September 25 2011 10:14 DiaBoLuS wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 10:11 Blasphemi wrote:On September 25 2011 10:08 DiaBoLuS wrote:On September 25 2011 09:51 Blasphemi wrote:On September 25 2011 09:40 tuho12345 wrote:On September 25 2011 09:17 Blasphemi wrote:On September 25 2011 08:26 NexUmbra wrote:
Why do people underestimate MaNa so much??
He beat PuMa in a best of 3 in a LAN 2-0... also beat in 2-0 in EG masters cupo. Because he's won zero major tournaments. Anyone without a major win is irrelevant here. Stephano/Sen hasn't won anything as well beside some small tourneys online right? MaNa has been in a quite a few final and second places already Stephano doesn't deserve a mention either. The correct answer is Huk, easily and I don't even like Huk and the day he's in Code B is a good day for me but clearly he's the best foreigner. Dreamhack winner, Homestory winner, MLG winner, Code S, highest foreigner at the last two MLGs. No one else compares to Huk's achievements. tbh, he was quite lucky with his groups in most main tournaments so far and ofc hes #3 in my ranking even, but you cannot denie he got a lot of luck in some tours and gsl groups. He would never requalify for code S if he would drop now... no chance. My ranking is: #1 ThorZaiN TSL winner, 2-0 HerO, 2-1 HuK, 2-3 DRG (who beat MVP 2-0) in Dreamhack inv. Train in SlayerS house. #2 Stephano 3rd in assembly losing 2-3 to dimaga unluckily, 2-0 vs huk @ hsc3, winning ipl3 qualifier #3 over MMA (who said hes top 3 zerg... i dont agree with that btw), insane ladder record and getting better and better with every week of progaming. #3 HuK Dreamhack winner, good performance overall and in GSL, although some grid and groupluck. still the best foreign protoss atm. after that comes: Sen, Mana, Naniwa, Select for ME. Only MVP wins tournaments by beating every other good player in it. Most tournament winners beat 1 or 2 top players max. Stephano over Huk is absurd. He has won nothing. true - he has won nothing, but hes still the better player. thats where my focus is. yours might be on results, but i ask for the BEST foreigner, not the most successful.
So by your logic Jangbi is better than Flash.
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On September 25 2011 10:14 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 10:10 DiaBoLuS wrote:On September 25 2011 10:08 Blasphemi wrote:On September 25 2011 10:04 Hierarch wrote:On September 25 2011 10:02 Blasphemi wrote:On September 25 2011 09:59 Hierarch wrote:On September 25 2011 09:51 Blasphemi wrote:On September 25 2011 09:40 tuho12345 wrote:On September 25 2011 09:17 Blasphemi wrote:On September 25 2011 08:26 NexUmbra wrote:
Why do people underestimate MaNa so much??
He beat PuMa in a best of 3 in a LAN 2-0... also beat in 2-0 in EG masters cupo. Because he's won zero major tournaments. Anyone without a major win is irrelevant here. Stephano/Sen hasn't won anything as well beside some small tourneys online right? MaNa has been in a quite a few final and second places already Stephano doesn't deserve a mention either. The correct answer is Huk, easily and I don't even like Huk and the day he's in Code B is a good day for me but clearly he's the best foreigner. Dreamhack winner, Homestory winner, MLG winner, Code S, highest foreigner at the last two MLGs. No one else compares to Huk's achievements. Thorzain performed extremely well in Korea when he was there and took DRG down to the wire at DH while beating HuK in that same tournament. Right now, Thorzain is playing at the highest level of any foreigner. Thorzain lost more games than he won in Korea. That is performing 'extremely well'? Thorzain was outplayed by DRG. He got some lucky spawns and looked worse than DRG even in the games he won. Every terran is outperformed by DRG, His 1st trip to Korea and performing the way he did? I see that as performing extremely well, he only got roflstomped in 1 game iirc and that was due to banshees. Also his code A match was the day after he landed so none of the foreigners performed well in those. Bad excuses for their code a failure. Koreans win every LAN under those conditions. Thorzain was outclassed by Yugioh playing dated and one dimensional strats. TvZ is his worst matchup, everyone who knows about sc2 knows that. + that was right after arriving in korea. AND code A is not too much easier then Code S - and HuK has a hard time at it atm. A while back there wasnt much difference but these days Code S is much better. Besides even I could get invited to Code A and lose in Round 1, that's no achievement at all.
There really isn't that big of a gap between code A stars and bottom of code S, hell the top of Code A is probably better than the bottom of Code S, it's just so hard to qualify for code A and now the up and downs are mad hard to get through.
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On September 25 2011 09:17 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 08:26 NexUmbra wrote:
Why do people underestimate MaNa so much??
He beat PuMa in a best of 3 in a LAN 2-0... also beat in 2-0 in EG masters cupo. Because he's won zero major tournaments. Anyone without a major win is irrelevant here.
Which is why Sen and Stephano are #3 and 4 in the poll?
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On September 25 2011 10:16 windsupernova wrote:
Well guys, to be honest not many foreigners have won much big stuff since Koreans started attending those events so achievements as in major wins are kinda hard.
Mana is being underrated hard, he beat idra in the IPL League IIRC, beat Nada and another Korean (sorry I don´t remember who it was) and lost to mc,
he beat puma several times. i agree, mana is absolutely insane, and to think he's still in highschool is crazy.
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Isn't Stephano in Complexity?
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On September 25 2011 10:13 DiaBoLuS wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 10:09 Supamang wrote:
How is this still a debate? Huk is still in Code S as a protoss and he is the only foreigner still in Code S. and the only one besides Jinro and Idra who ever stayed in korea for longer then 1 month. Once more: HuK would have a rly hard time to requalify if he ever drops into Code A (see MC... n/c) Lets be honest: Major tournament. HuK gets Thorzain in round 1. Who will win it? HuK gets Stephano in round 1. Who is your favorite? in both cases i would give HuK's opponents a slight edge. But we will see in IPL 3 where Stephano and HuK are in 1 group 
Huk has made it through Code A qualifiers to get through to Code S before. Yeah that was before, but the competition was still strong then.
Yea, that will be fun to watch. Id like to see Huk vs Thorzain too. Theyre all really good, dont get me wrong.
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On September 25 2011 10:17 Cassel_Castle wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 09:17 Blasphemi wrote:On September 25 2011 08:26 NexUmbra wrote:
Why do people underestimate MaNa so much??
He beat PuMa in a best of 3 in a LAN 2-0... also beat in 2-0 in EG masters cupo. Because he's won zero major tournaments. Anyone without a major win is irrelevant here. Which is why Sen and Stephano are #3 and 4 in the poll?
Lots of dumb people.
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On September 25 2011 10:17 Supamang wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 10:13 DiaBoLuS wrote:On September 25 2011 10:09 Supamang wrote:
How is this still a debate? Huk is still in Code S as a protoss and he is the only foreigner still in Code S. and the only one besides Jinro and Idra who ever stayed in korea for longer then 1 month. Once more: HuK would have a rly hard time to requalify if he ever drops into Code A (see MC... n/c) Lets be honest: Major tournament. HuK gets Thorzain in round 1. Who will win it? HuK gets Stephano in round 1. Who is your favorite? in both cases i would give HuK's opponents a slight edge. But we will see in IPL 3 where Stephano and HuK are in 1 group Huk has made it through Code A qualifiers to get through to Code S before. Yeah that was before, but the competition was still strong then. Yea, that will be fun to watch. Id like to see Huk vs Thorzain too. Theyre all really good, dont get me wrong.
Wrong. Huk was invited. No foreigner has ever qualified for Code A
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Thorzain best for sure.
Sen for second best. But I haven't seen him much recently so I'm not sure.
Huk for third.
Naniwa fourth.
Idra shouldn't be on that list. He's been mediocre since comming back from Korea.
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On September 25 2011 10:13 DiaBoLuS wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 10:09 Supamang wrote:
How is this still a debate? Huk is still in Code S as a protoss and he is the only foreigner still in Code S. and the only one besides Jinro and Idra who ever stayed in korea for longer then 1 month. Once more: HuK would have a rly hard time to requalify if he ever drops into Code A (see MC... n/c) Lets be honest: Major tournament. HuK gets Thorzain in round 1. Who will win it?HuK gets Stephano in round 1. Who is your favorite? in both cases i would give HuK's opponents a slight edge. But we will see in IPL 3 where Stephano and HuK are in 1 group
Thorzain won their match at DH, I would say that's it's a tie between those two atm the way they are playing.
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On September 25 2011 10:18 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 10:17 Cassel_Castle wrote:On September 25 2011 09:17 Blasphemi wrote:On September 25 2011 08:26 NexUmbra wrote:
Why do people underestimate MaNa so much??
He beat PuMa in a best of 3 in a LAN 2-0... also beat in 2-0 in EG masters cupo. Because he's won zero major tournaments. Anyone without a major win is irrelevant here. Which is why Sen and Stephano are #3 and 4 in the poll? Lots of dumb people.
Blasphemi just because people got opinions that's different then yours doesn't make them dumb infact in my book it make them pretty smart
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On September 25 2011 10:21 Hierarch wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 10:13 DiaBoLuS wrote:On September 25 2011 10:09 Supamang wrote:
How is this still a debate? Huk is still in Code S as a protoss and he is the only foreigner still in Code S. and the only one besides Jinro and Idra who ever stayed in korea for longer then 1 month. Once more: HuK would have a rly hard time to requalify if he ever drops into Code A (see MC... n/c) Lets be honest: Major tournament. HuK gets Thorzain in round 1. Who will win it?HuK gets Stephano in round 1. Who is your favorite? in both cases i would give HuK's opponents a slight edge. But we will see in IPL 3 where Stephano and HuK are in 1 group Thorzain won their match at DH, I would say that's it's a tie between those two atm the way they are playing.
ye, im ok with that, since thorzain's TvZ is worse then HuK's PvZ!
^^
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On September 25 2011 10:04 Hierarch wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 10:02 Blasphemi wrote:On September 25 2011 09:59 Hierarch wrote:On September 25 2011 09:51 Blasphemi wrote:On September 25 2011 09:40 tuho12345 wrote:On September 25 2011 09:17 Blasphemi wrote:On September 25 2011 08:26 NexUmbra wrote:
Why do people underestimate MaNa so much??
He beat PuMa in a best of 3 in a LAN 2-0... also beat in 2-0 in EG masters cupo. Because he's won zero major tournaments. Anyone without a major win is irrelevant here. Stephano/Sen hasn't won anything as well beside some small tourneys online right? MaNa has been in a quite a few final and second places already Stephano doesn't deserve a mention either. The correct answer is Huk, easily and I don't even like Huk and the day he's in Code B is a good day for me but clearly he's the best foreigner. Dreamhack winner, Homestory winner, MLG winner, Code S, highest foreigner at the last two MLGs. No one else compares to Huk's achievements. Thorzain performed extremely well in Korea when he was there and took DRG down to the wire at DH while beating HuK in that same tournament. Right now, Thorzain is playing at the highest level of any foreigner. Thorzain lost more games than he won in Korea. That is performing 'extremely well'? Thorzain was outplayed by DRG. He got some lucky spawns and looked worse than DRG even in the games he won.
Every terran is outperformed by DRG, His 1st trip to Korea and performing the way he did? I see that as performing extremely well, he only got roflstomped in 1 game iirc and that was due to banshees. Also his code A match was the day after he landed so none of the foreigners performed well in those.
Falsehood, surely you must have heard of mister immvp
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On September 25 2011 10:25 DiaBoLuS wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 10:21 Hierarch wrote:On September 25 2011 10:13 DiaBoLuS wrote:On September 25 2011 10:09 Supamang wrote:
How is this still a debate? Huk is still in Code S as a protoss and he is the only foreigner still in Code S. and the only one besides Jinro and Idra who ever stayed in korea for longer then 1 month. Once more: HuK would have a rly hard time to requalify if he ever drops into Code A (see MC... n/c) Lets be honest: Major tournament. HuK gets Thorzain in round 1. Who will win it?HuK gets Stephano in round 1. Who is your favorite? in both cases i would give HuK's opponents a slight edge. But we will see in IPL 3 where Stephano and HuK are in 1 group Thorzain won their match at DH, I would say that's it's a tie between those two atm the way they are playing. ye, im ok with that, since thorzain's TvZ is worse then HuK's PvZ! ^^
So is Jangbi better than Flash then?
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On September 25 2011 10:25 DiaBoLuS wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 10:21 Hierarch wrote:On September 25 2011 10:13 DiaBoLuS wrote:On September 25 2011 10:09 Supamang wrote:
How is this still a debate? Huk is still in Code S as a protoss and he is the only foreigner still in Code S. and the only one besides Jinro and Idra who ever stayed in korea for longer then 1 month. Once more: HuK would have a rly hard time to requalify if he ever drops into Code A (see MC... n/c) Lets be honest: Major tournament. HuK gets Thorzain in round 1. Who will win it?HuK gets Stephano in round 1. Who is your favorite? in both cases i would give HuK's opponents a slight edge. But we will see in IPL 3 where Stephano and HuK are in 1 group Thorzain won their match at DH, I would say that's it's a tie between those two atm the way they are playing. ye, im ok with that, since thorzain's TvZ is worse then HuK's PvZ! ^^
I would put it like this:
Tier 1
HuK
ThorZaIN
Tier 2
Stephano
Sen
SeleCT
NaNiWa
Dimaga
Tier 3
Mana
Nerchio
WhiteRa
Ret
etc...
Or something like this in terms of foreigners
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I can't believe sen and thorzain arent in the top 2. By far the most impressive against top level koreans imo.
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On September 25 2011 10:28 rysecake wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 10:04 Hierarch wrote:On September 25 2011 10:02 Blasphemi wrote:On September 25 2011 09:59 Hierarch wrote:On September 25 2011 09:51 Blasphemi wrote:On September 25 2011 09:40 tuho12345 wrote:On September 25 2011 09:17 Blasphemi wrote:On September 25 2011 08:26 NexUmbra wrote:
Why do people underestimate MaNa so much??
He beat PuMa in a best of 3 in a LAN 2-0... also beat in 2-0 in EG masters cupo. Because he's won zero major tournaments. Anyone without a major win is irrelevant here. Stephano/Sen hasn't won anything as well beside some small tourneys online right? MaNa has been in a quite a few final and second places already Stephano doesn't deserve a mention either. The correct answer is Huk, easily and I don't even like Huk and the day he's in Code B is a good day for me but clearly he's the best foreigner. Dreamhack winner, Homestory winner, MLG winner, Code S, highest foreigner at the last two MLGs. No one else compares to Huk's achievements. Thorzain performed extremely well in Korea when he was there and took DRG down to the wire at DH while beating HuK in that same tournament. Right now, Thorzain is playing at the highest level of any foreigner. Thorzain lost more games than he won in Korea. That is performing 'extremely well'? Thorzain was outplayed by DRG. He got some lucky spawns and looked worse than DRG even in the games he won.
Every terran is outperformed by DRG, His 1st trip to Korea and performing the way he did? I see that as performing extremely well, he only got roflstomped in 1 game iirc and that was due to banshees. Also his code A match was the day after he landed so none of the foreigners performed well in those. Falsehood, surely you must have heard of mister immvp
I've heard of him
+ Show Spoiler + and he lost 0-2 to DRG in AOL
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EPT
