EPTDo none of you adhere to White-Ra's "More GG, More Win"? That's Blizzard's entire game model. They don't have an issue with putting out tons and tons of patches, because they know that even if they make a mistake, they can fix it. I am happy they are trying to make the best game they can. That is smart. Yes, at a certain point I would like patches to stop as well. But come on! The fact that they are patching does not make them stupid.
a really specific Ninja ZvP nerf (1.4.0 PTR) - Page 11
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flowSthead
1065 Posts
Do none of you adhere to White-Ra's "More GG, More Win"? That's Blizzard's entire game model. They don't have an issue with putting out tons and tons of patches, because they know that even if they make a mistake, they can fix it. I am happy they are trying to make the best game they can. That is smart. Yes, at a certain point I would like patches to stop as well. But come on! The fact that they are patching does not make them stupid. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 13 2011 03:04 arbitrageur wrote: Another brain dead. This kills (if OP's claims are correct) an entire approach to the match up that was one of the most demanding of skill and multitasking from both sides. You have no information to back up any of that claim. What if it takes amazing control to get the protoss units to the point where no banelings can be dropped on them? To me it sounds like a huge risk. What if you mess it up and you lose your whole army? You are clumping your units into a small area and in the hopes they take no damage from an AOE. If its as hard as magic boxing mutas, I think we are ok. | ||
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Sabu113
United States11106 Posts
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arbitrageur
Australia1202 Posts
On September 13 2011 03:10 Plansix wrote: You have no information to back up any of that claim. What if it takes amazing control to get the protoss units to the point where no banelings can be dropped on them? To me it sounds like a huge risk. What if you mess it up and you lose your whole army? You are clumping your units into a small area and in the hopes they take no damage from an AOE. If its as hard as magic boxing mutas, I think we are ok. What about I'm high masters on Korea and I've played all styles to death that I can think of? Perhaps you don't understand how hard it is for protoss to stop their probes from dying to banes going to them every 1 minute game time, and to multitask to stop 2 overlords of lings going to each base every minute, burrowing and hiding in the main to morph into banes. You also clearly don't know how hard it is for zerg to execute this whilst getting to 5 base before 15:00 and staying low money, and also macroing enough to not die to an all-in counter. Compared to what. Infestor turtle? Roach hydra corruptor A-move? Lol. Anyone can have perfect macro doing this. To have perfect macro whilst doing the above morrow-strategy is hard for both sides, which is where the multitasking part of my claim comes from. The micro part of my claim is self-evident.... Protoss have to split like a biatch, and instead of A moving and spamming E zerg now has to drop from each overlord and move command them optimally over the protoss partitions. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On September 13 2011 03:12 Sabu113 wrote: Testudo Legionary Zealots! bahahah I laughed. | ||
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Elean
689 Posts
BUT, when you drop even a small group (10 zealots for instance), the banneling is dropped on the side instead of behing drop on the middle, resulting in much less damage. Also, a forcefield ring would probably completely defend against the banneling drop, protoss taking no damage. Not sure if it is viable though. | ||
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meadbert
United States681 Posts
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hugman
Sweden4644 Posts
On September 13 2011 03:08 EmilA wrote: Tested this out a bit on EU PTR server: Here are my conclusions: There is an issue with dropping on deathballs: - If you issue a drop command on a huge and tight ball, then banelings will temporarily cease dropping when around the middle of the ball. It won't "stop" the drop command, as it will automatically resume towards the outskirts of the ball again. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/U0VCf.png) 4 banelings attempted dropped on top of a super-tight ball. 3 banelings dropped at beginning, all hit on the outskirt. Last baneling was dropped towards the other end of the ball. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3Rpoa.png) Banelings dropped without problems on a not-super tight ball. - Banelings are now "displaced" a little bit when dropped around the outskirts of the ball. A guess, which is my own rough estimate, would be that banelings can be displaced about 3 units range before the drop command temporarily ceases. Bear in mind that even small holes in the clump are potential dropsites, so these "halts" in drops would probably be very very uncommon. - I recreated what I thought was a typical 1-a deathball vs ultra-ling-banelingbombs scenario, the protoss ball spread out in a concave that was thin enough to apparently not stop the drops from occuring. - Usually, you can move a transport unit around freely after initiating a "drop while moving" command, but if you reissue a move command while under the "drop while moving command" over undroppable space, the drop command will be halted. Bear in mind the drop command would otherwise automatically resume when reaching the outskirts of the ball. TLDR: Bug is there, but it probably requires unrealistic conditions to take full effect, though it may reduce overall damage capabilities of the baneling drops. I think that if you do the same thorough testing on 1.3 you will find that the results don't differ because you have never been able to drop on top of units if you issue the command with vision, you always drop in the gaps and the banelings can be displaced quite a lot. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On September 13 2011 03:15 meadbert wrote: Does anyone know if you can still unborrow a group of baneling if a tight group of marines walk over it? Well, why wouldn't you just hit "x"? | ||
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Chaosvuistje
Netherlands2581 Posts
On September 13 2011 03:10 Plansix wrote: You have no information to back up any of that claim. What if it takes amazing control to get the protoss units to the point where no banelings can be dropped on them? To me it sounds like a huge risk. What if you mess it up and you lose your whole army? You are clumping your units into a small area and in the hopes they take no damage from an AOE. If its as hard as magic boxing mutas, I think we are ok. Clumping up units is as hard as magic boxing, are you kidding me? Baneling bombs were my go-to unit in ZvP. Its actually a unit combination where I can come back from a slight macro disadvantage. Now the Protoss will just forcefield all around their army to make them ball up as much as possible to negate Baneling drops on them while the Stalkers snipe the overlords out. I wouldn't rage as much as I would if Protoss would actually just engage in a dynamic match up. But all of them just sit on their 3 bases and ride the game out. They don't need to harass, they don't need to split their army up, they just have to sit behind a cannon wall and creep along the map taking more bases until the Zerg becomes ineffective. This makes ZvP for me a very boring match up where I have to do my damn best to harass from multiple sides and drop Banelings, micro roaches and zerglings where one misstep will mean me losing all of my army. It just dumbs down the match up even more for the Protoss while making it tougher for the Zerg. That warp prism buff? You won't see them being used because the Protoss won't need it in the following patch anyway. | ||
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neoghaleon55
United States7435 Posts
Technically you when you drop something from higher altitude, there should be a chance that it lands ON things and not always beside them  I am desperate for a situation report. All these changes blizzard are making without properly addressing them to the crowd pisses me off. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 13 2011 03:13 arbitrageur wrote: What about I'm high masters on Korea and I've played all styles to death that I can think of? Perhaps you don't understand how hard it is for protoss to stop their probes from dying to banes going to them every 1 minute game time, and to multitask to stop 2 overlords of lings going to each base every minute, burrowing and hiding in the main to morph into banes. You also clearly don't know how hard it is for zerg to execute this whilst getting to 5 base before 15:00 and staying low money, and also macroing enough to not die to an all-in counter. Compared to what. Infestor turtle? Roach hydra corruptor A-move? Lol. Anyone can have perfect macro doing this. As I said, -this style is comparable in micro to no other style, for both sides. -This style is comparable in multitasking to mutas and roach/hydra drops. What's wrong with these claims? Is there not enough "information" for you? Well your clearly better than me. But still, I don't think the the bug change has anything to do with the thinks you just said, but I'm high plat on NA. But I am going to believe that you are masters in the Korean server and accept the fact that you know more than me. Still, the idea of clumping your units closer together to avoid aoe damage sounds risky to me. I won't be trying or counting on it any time soon, so any zerg playing against me is fine. | ||
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moofang
508 Posts
On September 13 2011 02:59 hugman wrote: Watch this video again (this is from 1.3) Look at the last baneling dropped from the last overlord. It is dropped out of synch (later than it should be) and it's dropped further forward than you'd expect, outside the zealot ball. Presumably because there was no room to drop. If that's the case then I don't think anything has changed and the guy making the experiment wasn't careful enough to have identical zealot clumps. ^ I strongly suspect this. The patch note reads: "Transports can no longer unload units into a dense area if the original order was issued on a fogged location." Which I would, by reading it alone, interpret as "transports never could drop on dense areas, but there was a bug that made this possible if the dense area in question was fogged during command-time. That has now been fixed". Don't think the bugged case ever applied in common ZvP bling drop scenarios - you move your ovies on top of the army then issue the drop command - far as I know no one asks their ovies to drop into fog even if you know the enemy is there, unless it's a bling drop into the mineral line, which is almost never dense. | ||
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skatbone
United States1005 Posts
On September 13 2011 02:38 Horse...falcon wrote: Executor! Banelings are falling from the sky! Quick, everyone huddle closer! :D This does make the INTENDED mechanic seem ridiculous. | ||
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Teddyman
Finland362 Posts
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
On September 13 2011 03:18 neoghaleon55 wrote: I am desperate for a situation report. All these changes blizzard are making without properly addressing them to the crowd pisses me off. they do this after the changes are through for some time. No need to heat up the drama if the change is not going live. (and everytime they say why they did it people drama as well.) One of those changes adding micro, while people complain about no micro involved and everytime somethings needs more micro people go omg terrible. Aoes generally roflstomp lower leagues especially the zerg ones. expect more of those micro increasements to aoe units. Colossi are probably up next patch, wonder what will happen they they will be harder to micro, or if they get a tank like ultra damage nerf. | ||
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
On September 13 2011 03:02 Plansix wrote: Blizzard: We have fixed a bug that allowed zerg units to drop where there was no space. This only comes into play 1% of the time. Drops are still possible, just not in tightly clumped units. I don't see the problem of dropping explosive matter from the air into the ground even if there is no space on the ground personally. It's called bombing ! | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On September 13 2011 03:08 flowSthead wrote: I also don't understand why every time Blizzard makes a change you don't like, the necessary conclusion is "Blizzard is fucking stupid". The arrogance and lack of logic from some of you is astounding. Do none of you adhere to White-Ra's "More GG, More Win"? That's Blizzard's entire game model. They don't have an issue with putting out tons and tons of patches, because they know that even if they make a mistake, they can fix it. I am happy they are trying to make the best game they can. That is smart. Yes, at a certain point I would like patches to stop as well. But come on! The fact that they are patching does not make them stupid. This mentality worked for Diablo 2, because Blizzard never intended it to be balanced. This mentality has been terrible for WoW, because Blizzard tweaks one thing and breaks two others. Blizzard's stance doesn't take into account the limitations and innovations of current/future players and the result is not necessarily a better game. It results in a more streamlined game, which may ultimately leave less intricacies for top players to manage. It may fix a bug in the engine, but it also affects balance, especially when banelings get dropped on the side instead of in the middle. The BW mutalisk example is apt for the entire situation. Not only was it a bug that wasn't discovered for 7 years but once it was revealed, it became an extremely exciting and crucial part of ZvZ and ZvT. Things take time to develop, and just because it's a bug doesn't mean it's bad for the game. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On September 13 2011 03:21 moofang wrote: ^ I strongly suspect this. The patch note reads: "Transports can no longer unload units into a dense area if the original order was issued on a fogged location." Which I would, by reading it alone, interpret as "transports never could drop on dense areas, but there was a bug that made this possible if the dense area in question was fogged during command-time. That has now been fixed". Don't think the bugged case ever applied in common ZvP bling drop scenarios - you move your ovies on top of the army then issue the drop command - far as I know no one asks their ovies to drop into fog even if you know the enemy is there, unless it's a bling drop into the mineral line, which is almost never dense. This is exactly it as far as I know. | ||
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SoKHo
Korea (South)1081 Posts
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