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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On June 09 2013 23:14 Magbane wrote: I rather trust what idra says, rather than random guy in forum. Try thinking for yourself instead of blindly believing someone else ... Idra may be right, but he has also made some outrageously stupid comments too ... | ||
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Magbane
Finland95 Posts
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On June 09 2013 23:21 Magbane wrote: Well the thing is, that idra is former pro player and high grand master. You are? Someone who USES HIS BRAIN instead of "preserving it for future use". Honestly Idra has made soooo many rage-fueled claims which were over the top that you cant be serious about taking his word as "true ... no matter what". ALWAYS think / criticize / judge for yourself ... that is a piece of advice for every situation in life. You should always mistrust your own judgement too ... that way you are looking for faults. On June 09 2013 22:26 Magbane wrote: Last night in idra stream there was long ZvT game where idra had army full of tier 3 and terran was just sitting in his base with tier 1 units and the terran won this game. Granted, it wasnt exactly easy game but what is atrocious is that terran is able to win just by sitting in his base with nothing but marines and marauders for the whole game. What else would you suggest that Terrans do? - They move out with their mech army ... lose it once because it wasnt "fully completed" and then lose the game because they cant reproduce it quickly enough. - They move around with their bio army and still their bases get taken out by run-bys or they simply lose to free units OR in the second wave of reproduction. The game design around "massive armies", "reproduction", "macro" and - since HotS - "faster unit speed" is just bad, because reproduction capabilities for the races are different and huge armies have different efficiencies compared to "a few units". This adds an invisible shift in unit balance commonly described by the words "critical number" where one unit gets so efficient that a clump of them gets nearly untouchable. | ||
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Magbane
Finland95 Posts
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On June 09 2013 23:29 Magbane wrote: That terran just sat in his base with bio, BIO army. So what? Did Idra attack him and fail over and over again? If he didnt move out Idra would have had all the money in the world and should have won ... but even that isnt a guarantee for a win. Not even the best player in the world wins 100% and everyone has his brainfarts. Just accept the fact that losing is a part of life. I wonder how much / how serious Idra practices now since he isnt a progamer anymore. There are probably a lot of other things in his life now and thus it is entirely possible that he isnt "in shape" anymore. | ||
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scypio
Poland2127 Posts
On June 09 2013 23:29 Magbane wrote: That terran just sat in his base with bio, BIO army. WTH man... Idra is like the worst player to talk about balance ever. He failed to win anything when the zerg was OP worldwide. He... ... leaves his WCS match with 3k+/3k+ in the bank, maxed army and 5 bases. How can anyone take his balance whining seriously? "There he goes!" | ||
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Fig
United States1324 Posts
On June 10 2013 00:08 scypio wrote: WTH man... Idra is like the worst player to talk about balance ever. He failed to win anything when the zerg was OP worldwide. He... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_k73V4_WRs&t=26m ... leaves his WCS match with 3k+/3k+ in the bank, maxed army and 5 bases. How can anyone take his balance whining seriously? "There he goes!" Yep. Still hilarious! | ||
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geokilla
Canada8244 Posts
On June 09 2013 22:35 Magbane wrote: Idra said that terran sky is unbeatable, so its not like terran tier 3 is crap. Sky Toss is unbeatable as well. Well unbeatable for Zerg. | ||
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scypio
Poland2127 Posts
On June 10 2013 00:28 geokilla wrote: Sky Toss is unbeatable as well. Well unbeatable for Zerg. ... and he means unbeatable for Idra. Maybe he should take some lessons from someone who plays zerg to win and not to whine. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On June 10 2013 00:28 geokilla wrote: Sky Toss is unbeatable as well. Well unbeatable for Zerg. Bullshit. Build Vipers, pull, repeat, don't engage offensively until you have an advantage. If he uses Templar extensively to zone out Vipers, use swarm hosts extensively to zone out templar. It's beatable. You just must not attack head on into it, or let the protoss max on it and move all the way over to your base. Skyterran is different. I haven't seen it in HotS in any promatch as no game seems to go as far (either side either wins in the midgame, or zerg in the lategame with a headon attack, or Terran in the lategame with biodrops. There seems to be no incentive for a Terran to really transition into skyterran, as dropping seems to be the more natural solution to a zerg endgame army and building up a skyterran is quite hard without a strong AtA corruptor counter). You can probably handle it similar to skytoss as zerg, but then again 9range vikings can't get zoned out by swarm hosts, so vipers will have a much harder time pulling. On the flipside, straight up crushing corruptors into skyterran (before it is fully built up with a thousand Ravens and Vikings) works probably much better than against skytoss and ultras are much harder to clean up (both of those things get handled by voidray's +vs armor in PvZ). | ||
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Magbane
Finland95 Posts
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
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willstertben
427 Posts
vikings make vipers not do anything pdd makes corruptors hydras etc basically all zerg anti air not do anything raven HSM kills stuff basically the only way to beat it is to not let him get it, which thank god isn't hard. | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On June 10 2013 01:00 Grumbels wrote: I really don't like complaints about how a zerg tier 3 army is 'supposed to beat' a terran tier 1 army. New units aren't supposed to replace basic units, they are meant to increase the number of choices available, to open up the game. It's not the fact that they are new units but that they are way more expensive units. When your super expensive units getting mauled by expendable units something just feels off. | ||
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Sissors
1395 Posts
Regarding skyterran (core of battlecruisers + ravens + bunch of vikings if needed). I do think it is unbeatable for zerg in a direct engagement. However, there are some problems, which are big enough to make sure it really isn't popular. To start with, it requires quite a bit of control with so many casters. Not to mention watching out that he doesn't fly corrupters right into your army after you cast seeker missiles. Not the main problem for pros, but still one at lower levels. Next, a zerg doesn't need to beat it all at once, zerg production allows you to quickly remax. There is no remaxing option for terran after losing that army, that is game over, it takes to long to make a new one. And that is also immediatly problem 3, it takes too long to make it in the first place. And until you got a whole bunch they die quickly to all zerg anti air. Then we have problem 4: there really is not a good counter to ultras, plus they are pretty slow. That means you cannot split them up to cover multiple bases (well unless you want corrupters to kill them in small groups). So I have had multiple games where I had a bunch of battlecruisers happily firing at ultras. End result was a dead zerg army, and my base pretty much a train wreck, with the zerg remaxing on corrupters. Considering I used all energy on the ultras they made short work of my remaining air army. So yeah a terrain ideal air army is scary for zerg, but there is no reason to consider it a balance problem currently. On June 10 2013 01:09 Assirra wrote: It's not the fact that they are new units but that they are way more expensive units. When your super expensive units getting mauled by expendable units something just feels off. So splash damage for thors ground attack? | ||
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Vanadiel
France961 Posts
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
On June 10 2013 01:09 Assirra wrote: It's not the fact that they are new units but that they are way more expensive units. When your super expensive units getting mauled by expendable units something just feels off. This is not an argument that can easily be resolved. I think that from a game design perspective it is desirable to have basic units remain viable throughout the game. But so many people get so mad whenever marines kill anything in late-game that it makes me feel Blizzard might as well give up and have mass carrier be the only viable late-game strategy. The game won't be fun, but oh well. | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On June 10 2013 01:09 Assirra wrote: It's not the fact that they are new units but that they are way more expensive units. When your super expensive units getting mauled by expendable units something just feels off. Like when immortals and thors are taken out by lings? There seems to be some sort of notion that reaching hive should just be an autowin (or close to it). | ||
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willstertben
427 Posts
terrans have been microing bio since forever, new fungal and transfused (!) ultras as army core are still somewhat new to zergs and we still can take very, very efficient fights even as we don't do it very well yet. we just need to get better at controlling that army and it will be nearly impossible for terran to deal with it. getting it out will be the true problem. bio against zerg t3 is perfectly fine. idra thinks everything he doesn't/can't do is stupid and every unit of every race he doesn't play is imbalanced so please don't take him so seriously. even if some of his complaints may be valid now and then and the first reaction of every zerg fanboy might be 'YEAH HE'S RIGHT NERF __EVERYTHING___' | ||
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Usernameffs
Sweden107 Posts
On June 10 2013 01:13 Vanadiel wrote: Skytoss is beatable by mass SH/viper/spore, that's true, however, it's boring as hell to be honest. T__T I dont think its beatable if it gets that long. Why dont protoss just go around the spores and kill all bases? | ||
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