EPTDesignated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 1217
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Fat_Elephant
Angola54 Posts
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HellHound
Bulgaria5962 Posts
On December 31 2014 16:47 Fat_Elephant wrote: Okay, I dont understand ... Why do the majority of players think the Corruptor is a bad/stupid/poorly designed unit? It has a spell which saps 20% of a units health. So if 5 collosi are corrupted, then it essentially brings down the collosi count to 4. I dont know ... I think thats pretty good .... It's extremely limited when compared to phoenix and vikings, it's the only pure anti air unit with no way to attack stuff on the ground in the game. It loses to void rays so you can't even use it vs mass air toss(on it's own with support it's a different story) and it can get kited to death by vikings and phoenixes. On top of that it costs a fuckton. It's good at getting shot in the face tho and that's what's it's used for the most  | ||
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Enigmasc
United Kingdom147 Posts
On December 31 2014 16:47 Fat_Elephant wrote: Okay, I dont understand ... Why do the majority of players think the Corruptor is a bad/stupid/poorly designed unit? It has a spell which saps 20% of a units health. So if 5 collosi are corrupted, then it essentially brings down the collosi count to 4. I dont know ... I think thats pretty good .... basically its an air to air unit that can only comfortably kill phoenix and things that dont shoot back | ||
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plogamer
Canada3132 Posts
On December 31 2014 16:47 Fat_Elephant wrote: Okay, I dont understand ... Why do the majority of players think the Corruptor is a bad/stupid/poorly designed unit? It has a spell which saps 20% of a units health. So if 5 collosi are corrupted, then it essentially brings down the collosi count to 4. I dont know ... I think thats pretty good .... Corruptors are tanky, they do decent damage, and as you point out, have the corrupt ability. Now imagine if they also move fast or have longer range. Phoenix are fragile, and vikings move even slower than corruptors. Just pair them with other units. Infestors come to mind. Fungal growth holds units in place for 4 seconds, and have 10 range. Addresses both of corruptor's weaknesses quite a bit - mobility and range. Of course, good opponents will try to counter those infestors. Then you can have the counter for the counter. And on and on. | ||
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mCon.Hephaistas
Netherlands891 Posts
 Anyway IEM Qualifiers were very Terran again. | ||
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Luolis
Finland7190 Posts
On January 06 2015 02:09 mCon.Hephaistas wrote: I would trade away my corrupters for viking or phoenix anyday Anyway IEM Qualifiers were very Terran again. How were they "very terran"? | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12133 Posts
So far is the race distribution 1-5-1(P-T-Z) Though it is nice to say that from Korea and Taiwan 4 players TOTALLY qualified to Asian final qualifiers, from which 3 players(San, Innovation, Maru) were qualified in the end and we all know how huge Korean scene is right now. Look at the qualifier attendees, huge list of names. America Qualifier = 2 players, Polt and Hydra, European = 2 players, ForGG and Kas which gives us total of 7 players ,-) (1-5-1) In the end it is not so surprising, Polt is above everyone in the NA scene, Innovation is the last GSL champion, Maru is godly good and San is very good as well. If the Asian final qualifiers ended with names Parting, herO, San no one would be surprised either since they are good too. Or Life, soO and Dark ,-) | ||
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parkufarku
882 Posts
It means Terrans beat other races who even outplay them | ||
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mCon.Hephaistas
Netherlands891 Posts
On January 06 2015 06:51 deacon.frost wrote: So far is the race distribution 1-5-1(P-T-Z) Though it is nice to say that from Korea and Taiwan 4 players TOTALLY qualified to Asian final qualifiers, from which 3 players(San, Innovation, Maru) were qualified in the end and we all know how huge Korean scene is right now. Look at the qualifier attendees, huge list of names. America Qualifier = 2 players, Polt and Hydra, European = 2 players, ForGG and Kas which gives us total of 7 players ,-) (1-5-1) In the end it is not so surprising, Polt is above everyone in the NA scene, Innovation is the last GSL champion, Maru is godly good and San is very good as well. If the Asian final qualifiers ended with names Parting, herO, San no one would be surprised either since they are good too. Or Life, soO and Dark ,-) It's just so funny that people talk like this when it's in favor of Terran. Anyway tonight in the WCS EU qualifier TvZ is again hugely in favor of Terran. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12502 Posts
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mCon.Hephaistas
Netherlands891 Posts
On January 07 2015 07:19 Nebuchad wrote: I don't understand the problem, we have established that terran is a little better and zerg is a little weaker, and we're going to account for it with the next map pool that looks like it'll be zerg favored. Now you're doing observations about those qualifiers, but those observations had already been made, it's neither new nor surprising... The new maps are not good for zerg though, that's kind of the problem | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On January 07 2015 07:41 mCon.Hephaistas wrote: The new maps are not good for zerg though, that's kind of the problem test them first. The blizzard ones are all so weird that they could go either way. | ||
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mCon.Hephaistas
Netherlands891 Posts
Anyway I dont know why it's so hard for blizzard to admit they clearly made a mistake with the last balance changes and just revert those | ||
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Enigmasc
United Kingdom147 Posts
but then we kept maps like catalena wich is literally a terran wet dream XD? | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On December 01 2014 02:50 pure.Wasted wrote: Updating these results with Hot6ix ro16, the rest of HSC V, and DH:W: 4-4, 7-6, and 23-21 in Korean vs Korean matches gives us ZvT numbers of 90-84, or 51.7% in favor of Zerg. This is marginally better for Zerg than the previous marginally-Zerg-favored stat of 51.3%. OK, so since the last tally, there have been some new results. We've had 3 weeks of Proleague, SSL Qualifiers, IEM San Jose, and the rest of Hot6ix cup. (I haven't counted Group A of Code S because it's just one group and that'll throw me off during the next tally; for what it's worth, ZvT was 2-3 and TvP was 1-2) The results are as follows: Proleague: 7-4 in ZvT (63.6%) and 4-4 in TvP (50%) SSL Qualifier: 5-6 in ZvT (45.5%) and 10-13 TvP (43.5%) IEM SJ: 10-17 in ZvT (47%) and 5-11 TvP (31.2%) IEM Asia Qualifier: 5-6 in ZvT (45.5%) and 2-0 TvP (100%) IEM Korea Qualifier: 23-14 in ZvT (62.1%) and 22-16 TvP (57.8%) Hot6ix: 4-2 in ZvT (66.6%) and 26-20 TvP (66.5%) For a combined 54-49 (52.4%) in ZvT and 69-64 (51.8%) in TvP in December and January so far. ZvT has gone up slightly from last aggregate's 51.7%, which was a spike up from the 51.3% Zerg favored result immediately following the patch. The trend of Zerg performance in TvZ improving continues. The winners were 2 Protoss, 0 Terran, and 0 Zerg. The runners-up were 1 Protoss, 1 Terran, and 0 Zerg. Protoss have been fielded 35 times in Proleague, Terran 31 times, Zerg 30 times. A ratio of 100 Protoss : 88.5 Terran : 85.7 Zerg. Obviously these numbers will change as the season goes on, but there's no indication that more Terrans will be fielded, as opposed to fewer. For comparison: the 2014 PL season saw a grand total of 472 Protoss appearances, 352 Zerg appearances, and 286 Terran, for a ratio of 100 Protoss : 74.5 Zerg : 60.5 Terrans. I don't know if Major events between Koreans ought to be counted in the grand total so I didn't include them just to be on the safe side, but if we were to look them up, PughCraft Invitational #2 featured just three instances of foreigners beating Koreans - all in ZvT. Nerchio beat Jjakji, Scarlett beat Fantasy, and Petraeus beat Journey. In the Korean vs Korean games, ZvT was 2-0 and TvP was 1-6. The winner was a Protoss. In 32 Boys 1 Cup, Korean Edition, ZvT was 4-5. Korean vs Korean games of the main event were 2-7 ZvT and 3-4 TvP. Nothing silly happened. The winner was a Protoss. I assume CaseKing X-mas Cup was an invitational. The results among Koreans are 6-3 ZvT and 5-4 TvP. The winner was a Zerg. GSL has 13 Terrans, 12 Protoss, 7 Zerg qualified. Hot6ix had 8 Protoss, 6 Terrans, 2 Zerg. IEM San Jose had 6 Zerg, 5 Protoss, 5 Terrans. SSL Qualifiers had 12 Protoss, 12 Terrans, 8 Zerg. Grand total is 37 Protoss, 36 Terrans, 23 Zerg. Zerg had the exact same success rate per round as Terrans (both less than Protoss) at IEM SJ. SSL advance rate to the main event was 58.4% for Protoss, 50% for Zerg, and 41.6% for Terran. These results are on what's come to be known as the Terran-favored map pool. Not gonna interpret any data at 7 AM, just wanted to throw this out there so that people have some numbers to look at. edit: added IEM SJ Asia/Korea qualifiers, counted Has as an honorary Korean for getting so deep (only relevant result is losing to Gumiho). This actually pushed Zerg into a positive KDR against Terrans, the most positive they've been since the WM buff. PvT results shifted in favor of Terrans by a couple of percent. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
The results are as follows: Proleague: 7-4 in ZvT (63.6%) and 4-4 in TvP (50%) SSL Qualifier: 5-6 in ZvT (45.5%) and 10-13 TvP (43.5%) IEM SJ: 10-17 in ZvT (63%) and 5-11 TvP (31.2%) Hot6ix: 4-2 in ZvT (33.3%) and 26-20 (43.5%) You switch from ZvT to TvZ winrate at IEM SJ and Hot6ix Cup and from TvP to PvT at hot6ix cup (at least it looks like it, i obviously didn't fact check these winrates) | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On January 09 2015 00:32 The_Red_Viper wrote: great work, but could you pls decide which side of the winrate you represent? You switch from ZvT to TvZ winrate at IEM SJ and Hot6ix Cup and from TvP to PvT at hot6ix cup (at least it looks like it, i obviously didn't fact check these winrates) You're absolutely right, thanks for catching that! For some reason I did it as ZvT and TvP last time, so I wanted to be consistent with that, but the results are always posted on liquipedia as TvZ and PvT... so... I screwed up some of the percentages when carrying them over. Not the winrates or the aggregates, though, those are all correct. Also just realized that IEM had relevant Korea/Asia qualifiers, so I'll add those numbers in in a few minutes. | ||
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mCon.Hephaistas
Netherlands891 Posts
Better zergs will play vs lesser players of other races since more of them qualified. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
On January 09 2015 19:03 mCon.Hephaistas wrote: Ofcourse the winrates will look decent when you have less zergs in tournaments atm. Better zergs will play vs lesser players of other races since more of them qualified. I'm not sure if that rule holds up in practice. You could think that if zerg is weak vs terran and that only strong zerg players survive, that they're still not favored vs top players of other races because of the (assumed) imbalance, so the win rates won't necessarily be 50/50. | ||
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