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On August 05 2011 00:07 Justanx wrote:
I believe the Sob Story from coach lee has run its course. Now some of the facts are coming to light. Even when it was brought up about FD and Trick during the EG/Puma drama. All the QQ for TSL and the honor system didn't mean dick to Lee. I wonder how much of Puma's purse form NASL went into Lee's pocket. Where was Milkis on this story. How was this not relevant to the point of TSL vs EG. Puma already saw the writing on the wall, but none of this was reported. I think ALex was right in telling Milkis to check some facts before releasing his "FIRST" story.
Dude while I side with Puma and dislike TSL's actions, your comments make... no sense :|
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Everybody involved in this incident has been an asshole in one way or another.
Sad.
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On August 05 2011 00:07 Justanx wrote:
I believe the Sob Story from coach lee has run its course. Now some of the facts are coming to light. Even when it was brought up about FD and Trick during the EG/Puma drama. All the QQ for TSL and the honor system didn't mean dick to Lee. I wonder how much of Puma's purse form NASL went into Lee's pocket. Where was Milkis on this story. How was this not relevant to the point of TSL vs EG. Puma already saw the writing on the wall, but none of this was reported. I think ALex was right in telling Milkis to check some facts before releasing his "FIRST" story.
Yeah exactly what "facts" is Milkis meant to check before he translates his next article? What are you even talking about.
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On August 05 2011 00:07 Justanx wrote:
I believe the Sob Story from coach lee has run its course. Now some of the facts are coming to light. Even when it was brought up about FD and Trick during the EG/Puma drama. All the QQ for TSL and the honor system didn't mean dick to Lee. I wonder how much of Puma's purse form NASL went into Lee's pocket. Where was Milkis on this story. How was this not relevant to the point of TSL vs EG. Puma already saw the writing on the wall, but none of this was reported. I think ALex was right in telling Milkis to check some facts before releasing his "FIRST" story.
Good post. I like the bit where you speculated some facts and then based your entire argument on these 'facts'.
I would say people feel bad for Coach Lee, because he comes across as quite naive in terms of how a team needs to be run. He was paying 2 players more money than any other player on a Korean team and they weren't practising, or getting results to justify their lack of practice, basically they were leeching off the team.
I don't know how he didn't try and rectify the problem before, he probably did and gave up, but when the financial troubles got bad enough that disbanding started to become a very real risk he realised that he actually had to do something very quickly, and he acted in a reckless way which is why we are at the point we are at now.
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On August 04 2011 23:51 Dommk wrote:Show nested quote +I understand where TSL is coming from though. They paid FD/Tester the most amount of money any Korean was making at the time and they return the favor by not practicing. If I was the coach I would be strongly inclined to withholding some money from them. It's a team environment.
I realize it's not correct in a business mean but still. The team was in such a poor financal state that players like SangHo and Clide were giving money back to the team to help support it.
Also I spoke with SangHo on skype and he said that everything is normal and they are practicing for their GSTL match with oGs....so maybe the influence of the SC2PA is overestimated?
That is what someone said on Reddit
Thanks for posting this.
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On August 04 2011 22:23 pdd wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2011 22:16 sleepingdog wrote:On August 04 2011 22:14 Telcontar wrote:On August 04 2011 22:07 sleepingdog wrote:On August 04 2011 22:04 b_unnies wrote:On August 04 2011 22:03 sleepingdog wrote:On August 04 2011 21:59 b_unnies wrote:
1. If FD/Tester don't practice then they dont meet the terms of their contract. They don't deserve to get paid. Do you expect to get paid if you dont show up for work? Sry but no. They are paid to show good results, if they can achieve that by NOT practicing, so be it. At least Tester is still one of the most stable code S players, who cares if Hero, Yongwha, Sage and so on practice their heart out when they can't even get to code A. And I'm paid to show results at my job too, if I can get it done in 1 hour its fine, if I need 3 hours for it, well, tough crap but nobody will care. I just has to be done. but the exact point is that they havent shown any results...? Fruitdealer no, I agree there. Tester yes, as long as he is stable code S I think he has every right to do whatever he wants. I mean, look at how many pros try to even get to code A, let alone code S. Claiming that you are not satisfied with a code S player is just....weird. Though Code S status alone might be satisfactory, you need players capable and threatening to win titles to attract sponsors and fans. If you're highest earning players aren't pushing themselves to do that, then it just isn't worth it to accomodate them. It only causes friction within the team and could negatively affect the team morale. I'm not saying Coach Lee did the right thing by refusing keep his promise (and contracts?) and even lying to them, but you can understand why he did it. The problem is, that they didn't "stop" practicing, they joined the team intentionally, CLAIMING that they don't want the rigid ogs-practice-schedule. So you aquire players who state they don't want to practice hard and afterwards you fire them because they didn't practice hard? This just makes no sense...if I'm hired to work 30 hours a week, I can't possibly get fired because I refuse to work 40 hours. It's different. You're hired as a player to win and to develop as a player. If you're not doing that then you should be reprimanded or fired. The matter of workload is a matter of work culture and ethics. If you can get by performing with minimal amount of work, then by all means. The fact that TSL then dropped in form and the management knew they had to buck up to please their sponsors, meant a change in culture. And since FD and Trickster weren't putting up with it despite the coach telling them to, the best way was to withhold payment (which had no contracts relating to it) to incentivize them to practice harder.
It's the same with any other job. You're paid to do your work, and if you can't do it within the normal 8-9 hour working day, then you have to do an overtime. Otherwise, you're gone. Show nested quote +On August 04 2011 22:21 CoR wrote:On August 04 2011 22:20 brachester wrote:On August 04 2011 22:17 RusHXceL wrote:
Now I don't blame PuMa for leaving TSL. Can we get a Mod in here and ban all those kids that brinign up this EG shit? why lol ? its exactly what everyone thinking that now it seems there was rumors in tsl before and i can good understand pumas decision to join EG stop forcing bans ... bm dude bm ! Banning I don't agree. But bringing up EG/Puma even more I don't agree. These are two separate issues.
Whaaa? how many jobs have you had? and who is exploiting you?
Truth be told there were no contracts so it's all whatever, but I get the impression that the coach of TSL is a little inexperienced and frankly, well ... maybe that not someone that should be running a team.
Also, you don't get to decide that they are not worth their salary and not pay them, while they still paly for the team... you don't get to do that. It's something else if the PLAYERS decide to give back the money
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This is all quite interesting to me, when the EG/Puma thing happened I knew there was more to it. Rain leaving, FD/Trickster leaving, and now Puma. Something had to be going on that was strange, or something enough to drive these players to a new team.
Basically, all of this shines a new light on what happened, his sob story no longer carries any weight to me. He appears to be lying in an effort to gain profit and manipulate public opinion.
tl;dr
Do not like Coach Lee, think EG is more innocent than perceived. FD and Trickster being messed with, don't like that either.
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youngminii, I agree with your 1st and 4th paragraphs
The fact that people can so easily hate on Coach Lee (and people in general) is disappointing to see. Despite the expectation - that it seems most people have - that the information we are fed is trustworthy and accurate, it still surprises me to see how many people are willing to jump to conclusions and make broad, sweeping statements on a topic that frankly they don't know any more about than what the few posts on TL have told them. Seriously, the community can be so judgemental just because of a media source that points one way or another.
Remember the hate towards SlayerSJessica, people saying she was unprofessional and the like for "overreacting" to apparently innocent twitter posts? That completely reversed once the second thread popped up from her point of view.
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rekrul is right.. this coach lee is a con..
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On August 05 2011 00:21 MarChe wrote:
youngminii, I agree with your 1st and 4th paragraphs
Remember the hate towards SlayerSJessica, people saying she was unprofessional and the like for "overreacting" to apparently innocent twitter posts? That completely reversed once the second thread popped up from her point of view.
Nah, I for one know it wasn't just twitter posts since i saw the cluster beging at the DC website. But you would be hard pressed to defend how she basically lashed out at everyone including on twitter, PlayXP. She had the right to sue, attacking friendlies? Not the best idea.
But thats besides the point. We all have to wait for new information at this point (not sure from where though) as both sides tell different stuff. But TSL is in an akward position.
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That's not TRUE..!!!
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SC2 Conference is very Small-bore association.
Korea Starcraft2 is worried about the future of (by SC2 Conference)
CoachLee,.. His decision will be any good.
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Whenever there is a significant exodus in employees, no matter the industry, it's an indication that something is wrong with the conditions of employment. There's something fundamentally wrong with the team.
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This news clearly shows the pattern of what this Mr.Lee's leadership is all about. Leave his team, and he will screw you over. Regardless of what he says in person, after you leave his team he will either screw you in the media (EGPuma) or moneywise (FD/Tester).
There is no doubt he can recruit more korean talent to his team, there is plenty of starving 14 year old grandmasters in Korea that would work for him without pay.. but I think the pattern of news coming out of his camp shows that this man is only interested in one thing. And it is not the welfare of his players.
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i think its okay dont fight please!
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On August 05 2011 00:28 thebigdonkey wrote:
Whenever there is a significant exodus in employees, no matter the industry, it's an indication that something is wrong with the conditions of employment. There's something fundamentally wrong with the team.
THIS RIGHT THERE!!!!!
...doesn't matter what is going but this is the most signifcant red flag that exists.
Now it could just mean that TSL picked up players they were incompatable with their new direction and there is a neccesary bleeding, but...
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At least it was handled properly.
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This explains why trickster and fruitdealer left. If TSL management acts like this then I can also see why Puma left. Wouldn't be surprised if this immaturity will lead to the team disbanding in the future.
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On August 05 2011 00:21 MarChe wrote:
youngminii, I agree with your 1st and 4th paragraphs
The fact that people can so easily hate on Coach Lee (and people in general) is disappointing to see. Despite the expectation - that it seems most people have - that the information we are fed is trustworthy and accurate, it still surprises me to see how many people are willing to jump to conclusions and make broad, sweeping statements on a topic that frankly they don't know any more about than what the few posts on TL have told them. Seriously, the community can be so judgemental just because of a media source that points one way or another.
Remember the hate towards SlayerSJessica, people saying she was unprofessional and the like for "overreacting" to apparently innocent twitter posts? That completely reversed once the second thread popped up from her point of view.
I think its the fact that coach lee went to the media so quickly when puma left because he loves his players, and then we learn that he doesn't pay them what he agreed to pay them.
Its not really a hate for Coach Lee, its the hate at all the people who acted like he was the nicest guy and best coach ever when the puma situation happened.
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is it just me or is Manager Lee a massive asshole? the dudes always making up bs and starting lies and starting trouble for people. obviously hes not fit to run a team.
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EPT
