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'TSL expelled from SC2 Conference' - Page 18

Forum Index > SC2 General
1124 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 16 17 18 19 20 57 Next
megaBICEPS
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada79 Posts
August 04 2011 14:32 GMT
#341
Not surprised. To me during the EG/Puma affair it looked like coach lee was just creating a shit storm cause he was angry. seems like he's a pretty rotten guy- but it's hard to tell. Either everyoen else is lying or he is. But honestly- who cares? The only people this should affect are the TSL players. It's really hard to know what accually happened, just follow players you like and ignore the drama.
Gonna burn some muscle!
zev318
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada4306 Posts
August 04 2011 14:33 GMT
#342
sounds like coach lee decided to take his ball and go home because he didnt like the decision.
Subversive
Profile Joined October 2009
Australia2229 Posts
August 04 2011 14:37 GMT
#343
We don't like your attitude and we think you're not helping with team rebuilding so we're not going to pay you... for the last month. What a load of shit. TSL are fucked. What fraud. They should be stopped from playing in all leagues till they pay. I would rather see them never play again than get away with this crap.
#1 Great fan ~ // Khan // FlaSh // JangBi // EffOrt //
Nalesnik
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada51 Posts
August 04 2011 14:39 GMT
#344
Whether a victim or a villain, it really seems like Coach Lee is just not cut out to be the manager of the team. If I were one of the TSL players, I would abandon ship asap, cause she's takin' on too much water, and sinking fast. Maybe look into an opening for EG or FXO, or some other team that knows how to properly support their players.
thegreatpiata
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada54 Posts
August 04 2011 14:39 GMT
#345
Huh. Sounds like a lot of problems with a lot of people. Questionable actions from coach Lee, Tester and Fruit Dealer being lazy asses and EG swooping in to pick up Puma. So everyone's a jerk?
xBillehx
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States1289 Posts
August 04 2011 14:40 GMT
#346
On August 04 2011 23:32 Telcontar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 04 2011 23:30 Theeakoz wrote:
Well, this is sad but I think it wouldd help the starcraft 2 community in korea in getting more serious.
Also, I did not know that junwi is the president of the SC2 association.

He's the president of the SC2 Players Association. Not sure who has that title for SC2 Conference or if it even has one.

Coach of StarTale, Won Joong Wook. Can read more here. Interestingly enough Fruitdealer & Tester are now on StarTale too.
Taengoo ♥
quaffle
Profile Joined December 2010
United States249 Posts
August 04 2011 14:40 GMT
#347
Wow, congratz to FruitDealer and Trickster for taking a stand against "the bad guy." Im sure that was a tough thing to do.
Your success is only measured by the strength of your competitors.
slicknav
Profile Joined January 2011
1409 Posts
August 04 2011 14:41 GMT
#348
so what exactly does this mean for other TSL players? are they still going to be in the GSL?
blah blah blah...
Madder
Profile Joined February 2010
Australia427 Posts
August 04 2011 14:41 GMT
#349
On August 04 2011 23:40 xBillehx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 04 2011 23:32 Telcontar wrote:
On August 04 2011 23:30 Theeakoz wrote:
Well, this is sad but I think it wouldd help the starcraft 2 community in korea in getting more serious.
Also, I did not know that junwi is the president of the SC2 association.

He's the president of the SC2 Players Association. Not sure who has that title for SC2 Conference or if it even has one.

Coach of StarTale, Won Joong Wook. Can read more here. Interestingly enough Fruitdealer & Tester are now on StarTale too.

That'd be right..
moonmeh
Profile Joined July 2011
Korea (South)105 Posts
August 04 2011 14:42 GMT
#350
On August 04 2011 23:39 thegreatpiata wrote:
Huh. Sounds like a lot of problems with a lot of people. Questionable actions from coach Lee, Tester and Fruit Dealer being lazy asses and EG swooping in to pick up Puma. So everyone's a jerk?


And there you have it, the most accurate assesment of the situation
eight.BiT
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States240 Posts
August 04 2011 14:42 GMT
#351
I don't understand why people are bringing up TSL's side like it makes them look any better. Have you guys even read it?

All it says is they decided not to pay FD and Trickster until they could pay the players they still had. Which makes no sense because the players they still have gave TSL back their salaries, and if TSL was really going to pay FD and Trickster in the end they wouldn't have left the association. I mean the association ruled they had to pay them what they owed, and TSL did not agree so they left. So that right there means there was no intention to pay in the first place.

TSL also says they didn't have time to change their ad and that's why they ran it still, which I'm not even going to touch on since I don't know what the ads were.. but how hard is it to edit them out real quick?
ronpaul012
Profile Joined March 2011
United States769 Posts
August 04 2011 14:43 GMT
#352
HAHA, I think mr. lee there isn't as kind of a manager so many were making him out to be. Wonder why puma decided to leave...
I'm a gooner.
Scribble
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
2077 Posts
August 04 2011 14:43 GMT
#353
On August 04 2011 23:41 slicknav wrote:
so what exactly does this mean for other TSL players? are they still going to be in the GSL?


Dunno, but I feel bad for them either way. It must feel terrible to just want to play and compete, and to be caught up in this mess. Best of luck to all the players.
DelRax
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia54 Posts
August 04 2011 14:47 GMT
#354
On August 04 2011 23:41 slicknav wrote:
so what exactly does this mean for other TSL players? are they still going to be in the GSL?


They will be fine. From what I understand, SlayerS aren't a member of SC2CON either.
Zombie_Velociraptor
Profile Joined May 2011
274 Posts
August 04 2011 14:47 GMT
#355
Wow.

How can anyone condemn either side without having any facts to go by at all? It's all 'he said, she said', we don't even know what contracts were there, or what were the terms of players / teams, or what happened in the TSL house, or how the meetings went - we don't know ANYTHING, and yet so many people feel justified to call Lee a shark and an evil robber, or on the contrary, the SC2con a bunch of idiots and FD/Trickster lazy slackers who don't earn shit? Come on.

And the comments like, 'BAN ALL OF TSL FROM PLAYING OMG!!!!!!" are just ridiculous. Even if Lee DID rip off FD & Trickster (and we don't know if he did), demanding a ban for the entire team over that, really?

Attitudes like this are pretty sad, and it's also really sad to see Starcraft 2 becoming a 'business' where stuff like this goes on.
reneg
Profile Joined September 2010
United States859 Posts
August 04 2011 14:49 GMT
#356
On August 04 2011 23:43 Scribble wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 04 2011 23:41 slicknav wrote:
so what exactly does this mean for other TSL players? are they still going to be in the GSL?


Dunno, but I feel bad for them either way. It must feel terrible to just want to play and compete, and to be caught up in this mess. Best of luck to all the players.


In the OP, it says they aren't banned from GSL /GSTL / etc.

Very interesting development, to say the least.
moose...indian
Eufouria
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United Kingdom4425 Posts
August 04 2011 14:50 GMT
#357
On August 04 2011 22:58 b_unnies wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 04 2011 22:52 Eufouria wrote:
On August 04 2011 20:48 b_unnies wrote:
Honestly I think what Coach Lee did is fair. Trickster/Fruitdealer don't practice? They don't get paid. Do you expect your boss to pay you if you don't show up for work either?

I agree that in theory what he did was right, but you can't just ignore contracts. The contracts should be designed in a way that takes account of practice time, probably through bonuses, that way players have motivation to practice. From the sounds of it TSL has been being run awfully, the team is basically the top players from just after release, who wanted a more relaxed practice regime. Add to that some sponsorship money so they could afford to pay some of those players wages meant that their results suffered and some of the players with wages got too comfortable.

I'm speculating here, but I imagine maybe the sponsors threatened to cut some of the funding and either because of that, or at a similar period, some of the players on TSL decided they wanted to improve the results, which lead to Fruitdealer and Trickster being confronted.


Contract's are always 2-way, never 1-way. FD/Trickster gets money but what does TSL get? Since thats pretty much what you mean by saying contracts didnt take into account practice times.

TSL' sponsors have already reduced funding.

A good contract is 2 way, it sounds a bit like TSL's contracts just said they'd pay them some money each month. Also I thought they probably had their sponsorships cut, coach Lee doesn't sound like he knows that much about the business side of running a team, I'm sure he's good at making his players better and looking after them, but coaches have to do so many different things to keep their team running right now, and it sounds like Coach Lee has failed a bit in terms of the financial aspects.

On August 04 2011 23:00 NexUmbra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 04 2011 22:52 Eufouria wrote:
On August 04 2011 20:48 b_unnies wrote:
Honestly I think what Coach Lee did is fair. Trickster/Fruitdealer don't practice? They don't get paid. Do you expect your boss to pay you if you don't show up for work either?

I agree that in theory what he did was right, but you can't just ignore contracts. The contracts should be designed in a way that takes account of practice time, probably through bonuses, that way players have motivation to practice.


Do you remember the puma scenario? ye he wasn't contracted, same with tester and FD

Yeah but Puma wasn't paid, I'm sure that the players who were paid were contracted, if they weren't then TSL has been being run even worse than I thought.

I don't want to sound like I'm being really hard on Coach Lee, because I don't mean to be, I disagree with some of the things he has said, and the way his actions seem to have escalated some of the problems more than is needed, but I think its partly a problem with the state of Korean pro-gaming teams in Starcraft at the moment. Because the scene is still quite small, the teams are being run quite small, which leaves the players playing, and the coaches trying to sort out everything else.

This is what I like about the FXO Korea situation, it sounded like Choya was having a lot of trouble trying to do everything for his team as well as coach the players and someone stepped in so he could concentrate on coaching. I'm almost certain that Choya wasn't the only coach who was struggling to coach, while being able to keep his team afloat and, as far as I know, he didn't even have to deal with paying players like Coach Lee did.

tldr: Korean coaches have too many responsibilities at the moment.
zarepath
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1626 Posts
August 04 2011 14:50 GMT
#358
I don't feel so bad about EG getting Puma now. This Coach Lee guy's a piece of work.
"Your efforts you put in will never betray you." - Flash | "If I'm not good enough, I don't wanna win." - Naniwa
Bobster
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany3075 Posts
August 04 2011 14:51 GMT
#359
On August 04 2011 22:59 FXOpen wrote:
One thing I have learned, and this is not in reference to coach lee as I dont know the true situation. Is that you cannot trust the players association.

I may dive into the reasons why in a different post/thread and not hijack this one.

Sounds juicy.
windsupernova
Profile Joined October 2010
Mexico5280 Posts
August 04 2011 14:51 GMT
#360
On August 04 2011 23:47 Zombie_Velociraptor wrote:
Wow.

How can anyone condemn either side without having any facts to go by at all? It's all 'he said, she said', we don't even know what contracts were there, or what were the terms of players / teams, or what happened in the TSL house, or how the meetings went - we don't know ANYTHING, and yet so many people feel justified to call Lee a shark and an evil robber, or on the contrary, the SC2con a bunch of idiots and FD/Trickster lazy slackers who don't earn shit? Come on.

And the comments like, 'BAN ALL OF TSL FROM PLAYING OMG!!!!!!" are just ridiculous. Even if Lee DID rip off FD & Trickster (and we don't know if he did), demanding a ban for the entire team over that, really?

Attitudes like this are pretty sad, and it's also really sad to see Starcraft 2 becoming a 'business' where stuff like this goes on.


Well this kind of crap has pretty much become the norm around here. And yeah, its pretty bad. It seems some people can only see stuff in black and white. I am not really defending either side but how people are reacting to this is just...ugh
"Its easy, just trust your CPU".-Boxer on being good at games
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