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Ideas Borrowed From Other RTS Games (

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Aron Times
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States312 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-26 14:51:28
July 26 2011 14:24 GMT
#1
Edit: Accidentally posted this thread while working on it. Still not done, so I apologize if it just trails off.

Since the servers are down and I have nothing better to do, I thought I'd start a thread about aspects of Starcraft 2 borrowed from other RTS franchises. This is not a QQ thread about how Blizzard is ripping off other companies; the purpose of this thread is to show how good the good people at Blizzard are at making good concepts work.

Currently, all of these are from the C&C series, as it is the RTS franchise I am most familiar with. I will add more stuff later.

1. Terran Banshee

Compare the SC2 Banshee to the C&C Orca. Both are fast, agile aircraft armed with powerful air-to-ground missiles. The main difference between the two is that the Orca has limited ammo; it has to return to base to reload when it runs out of missiles. Also, Orcas are not cloaked, though they do not appear on the minimap. And finally, they are only airborne while moving. When reaching their destination, they immediately land on the ground.

The closest thing the C&C series has to the Banshee is the US Air Force General's Stealth Comanche in C&C: Generals: Zero Hour. As the name suggests, they can be cloaked, and in Zero Hour, Stealth Comanches are permanently cloaked until they open fire or are detected. It is permanently airborne, and has two weapons, an anti-infantry chaingun and an anti-armor missile battery, which has a sort-of limited ammo supply. After a few seconds of attacking, the Comanche runs out of missiles, but it automatically replenishes its supply over time (slower than it can fire them). It also has a researchable Rocket Pods ability, an ability on a cooldown that resembles the missile spam of Banshees in the Starcraft 2 Alpha and is thematically similar to the Shockwave Missile Battery upgrade in the Wings of Liberty campaign.

Banshee
[image loading]

Orca
[image loading]

Stealth Comanche
[image loading]

2. Burrowed Movement

I remember seeing underground units first in Tiberian Sun. The game had two subterranean units: The Devil's Tongue and the subterranean APC. Their primary movement mode was underground; if ordered to move farther than a very short distance, they would burrow and move to the destination and then unburrow. Quite a cool idea, but it was executed very poorly.

First, subterranean units were INVULNERABLE while burrowed. The only way to harm them while burrowed is to use an EMP on them, which is a superweapon in the vanilla game. In the expansion, GDI had access to a mobile EMP generator, an unarmed ground unit whose sole ability was to generate a tiny EMP effect. Good luck being in the right place at the right time, as TS maps were huge.

To "balance" these two units, they couldn't be ordered to move to an area of shroud (the black thing that covers unexplored areas of maps), and they couldn't burrow or unburrow into concrete. The former becomes irrelevant once you find the enemy base, and the latter is not a threat at all due to the cost of paving your entire base to stop just one subterranean unit. It also keeps you from building other structures because you cannot build more than one building at a time and having multiple construction yards does not speed up the process.

Roach
[image loading]

Devil's Tongue
[image loading]

Detecting subterranean (and cloaked) units requires a mobile sensor array, which I will tackle below.

3. Sensor Tower

The Terran sensor tower is an awesome defensive structure that many non-Terran players call a maphack. It reveals the location of non-cloaked, non-burrowed enemy units in its massive radius, making it nigh-impossible to sneak up on a Terran player. Fortunately, sensor towers are moderately expensive and quite fragile, making it just a tiny bit easier to crack and turtling Terran.

In Tiberian Sun, GDI (and Nod in multiplayer) had access to the mobile sensor array, which is a much more powerful version of its Starcraft 2 counterpart. Like the sensor tower, it reveals the location of units you can't see, but it massive radius also provided detection. This means that in multiplayer, you will never be surprised by subterranean or cloaked units. Even if you're an absent-minded professor, EVA or CABAL will constantly nag with you "Cloaked unit detected." or "Subterranean unit detected." over and over and over again as long as the unit is within the detection radius.

Sensor Tower
[image loading]

Mobile Sensor Array
[image loading]

More to add later. Need coffee.
"The drums! The drums! The drums! The neverending drumbeat! Open me, you human fool! Open the light and summon me and receive my majesty!"
Sqq
Profile Joined August 2010
Norway2023 Posts
July 26 2011 14:27 GMT
#2
Well, you didnt write anything about the burrow movement thing ? O_o
Dead girls don't say no.
Marsupian
Profile Joined April 2011
Netherlands455 Posts
July 26 2011 14:28 GMT
#3
On July 26 2011 23:27 Sqq wrote:
Well, you didnt write anything about the burrow movement thing ? O_o


I guess it's a work in progress thread?
Phayze
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada2029 Posts
July 26 2011 14:30 GMT
#4
You do realize dustin browder worked on C&C games...
Proud member of the LGA-1366 Core-i7 4Ghz Club
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
July 26 2011 14:30 GMT
#5
Well, we all know that the only major improvements that sc2 has compared to other rts games before it are two things:

1. Awesome observer and replay features
2. Very good graphics

add in some couple of things it takes from other games (mostly from BroodWar) this makes an awesome game. :-)
Naphal
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany2099 Posts
July 26 2011 14:30 GMT
#6
dustin browder has some history with command and conquer i think... also not too great OP, since warhammer for example has also lots of similar stuff, and all the scifi universes inspire each other to a certain degree.
L3g3nd_
Profile Joined July 2010
New Zealand10461 Posts
July 26 2011 14:30 GMT
#7
there was a thread about this before.. argh cant remember what sub forum it was in...
https://twitter.com/#!/IrisAnother
carloselcoco
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2302 Posts
July 26 2011 14:31 GMT
#8
On July 26 2011 23:28 Marsupian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2011 23:27 Sqq wrote:
Well, you didnt write anything about the burrow movement thing ? O_o


I guess it's a work in progress thread?


Read the top of the thread. He said that he posted this accidentally before finishing.
http://www.twitch.tv/carloselcoco/b/296431601 <------Suscribe! Casts in Spanish :) |||| http://www.twitch.tv/carloselcoco/b/300285215<----- CSL: Before Sunday! Episode 3!
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
July 26 2011 14:34 GMT
#9
you want to talk about idea stolen from other games?!?!

starcraft is clearly just orcs in space!
clusen
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany8702 Posts
July 26 2011 14:35 GMT
#10
On July 26 2011 23:34 turdburgler wrote:
you want to talk about idea stolen from other games?!?!

starcraft is clearly just orcs in space!

Actually it's just a streamlined Warhammer 40K in realtime :p
flodeskum
Profile Joined September 2010
Iceland1267 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-26 15:18:29
July 26 2011 14:41 GMT
#11
[image loading]
Shock troopers from c&c 3 are basically stalkers. They even had blink.

Both games by Dustin Browder.

edit: not both games by DB, I am an idiot.
IdrA: " my fans are kinda retarded"
jsdk
Profile Joined February 2011
63 Posts
July 26 2011 14:51 GMT
#12
There's a lot of similarities between SC2 and C&C3. Shock Troopers as mentioned above, as well as the Mothership (Mothership), Hellions (Raider Buggy), Reapers (Commandos crossed with Shadow Team), Marauders (Missile squads), Colossus (Tripods).

All Dustin Browder, I'm sure.
Rococo
Profile Joined May 2011
United States331 Posts
July 26 2011 15:05 GMT
#13
On July 26 2011 23:41 flodeskum wrote:
[image loading]
Shock troopers from c&c 3 are basically stalkers. They even had blink.

Both games by Dustin Browder.


The last C&C game he was involved with was Generals.
GizmoPT
Profile Joined May 2010
Portugal3040 Posts
July 26 2011 15:08 GMT
#14
On July 26 2011 23:51 jsdk wrote:
There's a lot of similarities between SC2 and C&C3. Shock Troopers as mentioned above, as well as the Mothership (Mothership), Hellions (Raider Buggy), Reapers (Commandos crossed with Shadow Team), Marauders (Missile squads), Colossus (Tripods).

All Dustin Browder, I'm sure.


basically everything that ruined starcraft
Snipers Promod & Micro Arena Creator in SC2 Arcade - Portuguese Community Admin for SC2, HotS and Overwatch - Ex-Portugal SC2 Team Manager, Ex- Copenhagen Wolves and Grow uP Gaming Manager in SC2. Just Playing games now!
Captain Peabody
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3128 Posts
July 26 2011 16:12 GMT
#15
basically everything that ruined starcraft

Is it really too much to ask to have a thread remotely involving C&C without someone immediately turning into a "Dustin Browder destroyed Starcraft!" thread?

Anyway, Blizzard is well known for borrowing ideas from other games and improving/streamlining them in their own games. With most of these, you can see how the basic idea is the same, but how it actually works out and plays in game is veeerry different...about how you'd expect given the vastly different feel and approach of the Starcraft and C&C franchises.
Dies Irae venit. youtube.com/SnobbinsFilms
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17543 Posts
July 26 2011 16:16 GMT
#16
These Junior game designer geniuses are good for a laugh.

rather than engaging in polemics i'd like to see even 1 of them produce a MOD with their incredible game play ideas.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
July 26 2011 16:20 GMT
#17
Not emulating the good things from other games of the same genre is a mistake for any game. Up to the point of copyright infringement (obviously).
Carrilord has arrived.
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