EPTThe whole basis for it is actually flawed because it assumes some sort of disadvantage for girls. This isn't football. You have fingers, eyes, and a brain. If you don't want to put the effort in that the other people have (in this case, all males), then you simply don't deserve to be on a pro team.
About some troubles (SlayerS_Jessica) - Page 55
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Keren
United States67 Posts
The whole basis for it is actually flawed because it assumes some sort of disadvantage for girls. This isn't football. You have fingers, eyes, and a brain. If you don't want to put the effort in that the other people have (in this case, all males), then you simply don't deserve to be on a pro team. | ||
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Diglett
600 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On August 08 2011 03:21 Diglett wrote: why didn't jessica recruit a female that was actually good? all of this drama would have gone away. Like who? | ||
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ZergX
France436 Posts
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Sek-Kuar
Czech Republic593 Posts
But from girls I kinda expect more. I really hate when I see girl smoking, talking vulgarly, driking beer (1-2 is okayish, though wine is always better) - or wasting time playing real games (as I said, I actually liked playing Worms with my ex). Call me traditional, but IMO girls should be simply nice and reasonable. On the other hand, I guess there is different culture in Korea, so perhaps someone can take nerdy girls seriously there.. | ||
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Phayt
Canada346 Posts
On August 08 2011 03:44 Sek-Kuar wrote: Id personally never date girl playing anything except Worms. Video games and other stuff like beer, smoking etc. are idiotic ways to spend guys free time, and frankly nobody expect more right? But from girls I kinda expect more. I really hate when I see girl smoking, talking vulgarly, driking beer (1-2 is okayish, though wine is always better) - or wasting time playing real games (as I said, I actually liked playing Worms with my ex). Call me traditional, but IMO girls should be simply nice and reasonable. On the other hand, I guess there is different culture in Korea, so perhaps someone can take nerdy girls seriously there.. Are you for real? what kind of post is this even, god damn. I don't feel like your sexist views really have any bearing on this topic at all. And I don't see the logic behind coming on to a message board about professional gaming and calling it an idiotic waste of time either, but that's frankly another matter entirely. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On August 08 2011 03:44 Sek-Kuar wrote: Id personally never date girl playing anything except Worms. Video games and other stuff like beer, smoking etc. are idiotic ways to spend guys free time, and frankly nobody expect more right? But from girls I kinda expect more. I really hate when I see girl smoking, talking vulgarly, driking beer (1-2 is okayish, though wine is always better) - or wasting time playing real games (as I said, I actually liked playing Worms with my ex). Call me traditional, but IMO girls should be simply nice and reasonable. On the other hand, I guess there is different culture in Korea, so perhaps someone can take nerdy girls seriously there.. You're implying that women can't act or be as they are, but are held to a higher degree or behavior and mannerisms because of their gender. | ||
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garlicface
Canada4196 Posts
On August 08 2011 03:10 Keren wrote: Recruiting a girl for the simple fact that she is a girl while completely aware that she is never going to be competitive does absolutely nothing to advance women in esports. It does the opposite. It serves to highlight the fact that women need what effectively amounts to a handout in order to be able to sit down with a pro team, or at least give that perception. The whole basis for it is actually flawed because it assumes some sort of disadvantage for girls. This isn't football. You have fingers, eyes, and a brain. If you don't want to put the effort in that the other people have (in this case, all males), then you simply don't deserve to be on a pro team. How does it do nothing? Girls need confidence in order to commit themselves to the game. If a young girl never sees a woman playing Starcraft, regardless of skill, do you really think she'll be inclined to pick up the game for herself? This recruitment goes beyond what so many people are seeing. It's a shame that the overall reaction from the community was pretty negative, but I suppose that's to be expected these days. I can't believe I missed this thread when it was first made. It was very encouraging to read Jessica's words; you can tell she's 100% dedicated to the game and its growth. Good for her, and best of luck to her, Eve, SlayerS, and SC2 as a whole. | ||
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ParasitJonte
Sweden1768 Posts
On August 08 2011 03:49 Phayt wrote: Are you for real? what kind of post is this even, god damn. I don't feel like your sexist views really have any bearing on this topic at all. And I don't see the logic behind coming on to a message board about professional gaming and calling it an idiotic waste of time either, but that's frankly another matter entirely. Yeah, it's a really off topic post and I wish I could resist responding but... He is actually just detailing his personal preferences regarding women. That's not sexist at all. He actually seems to have higher regard for females than males so I guess he is misandric if anything. | ||
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Sek-Kuar
Czech Republic593 Posts
On August 08 2011 03:53 Torte de Lini wrote: You're implying that women can't act or be as they are, but are held to a higher degree or behavior and mannerisms because of their gender. Nope I was just saying that just like real girls dont dream about guys who spent their childhood playing with dools and watching Gilmore Girls, whos favourite film is Princess Diaries... Just like that real grown up boys dont dream about girls playing SC2. And its not really worth it, it might just seem like that when someone dont have enough male friends to talk about gaming. But no doubt they can be just as good as boys, didnt want to imply opposite. Its just not appropriate. On August 08 2011 04:01 ParasitJonte wrote: He is actually just detailing his personal preferences regarding women. That's not sexist at all. He actually seems to have higher regard for females than males so I guess he is misandric if anything. This is actually 100% correct, thats for explaining it with this words  | ||
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ParasitJonte
Sweden1768 Posts
You're a free organization and should do whatever you please. Of course, it can be good justifying your actions to your fans. Personally, I think having mixed men and women in any organization will bring many pleasant side-effects that aren't so easy to put into words. Anyone thinking back to University or High School or perhaps even before that and compare the atmosphere in social groups where there are almost 100% of only one gender. Those groups did not have as much fun as the other groups. Today's E-Sports world is very male dominated. If I were a member of a pro team I would welcome the addition of a couple of girls even if they can't compete. At least if the organization can afford it. The rest is really insignificant. The important part is that people have fun and that both parties gain mutually from the arrangement. All this about promoting female gaming and so on is a bit "fluffy". A lot of words, maybe some truth in them but who cares? It will grow gradually if it turns out that girls are interested in any case so long as no explicit barriers exist (and they don't). All criticism about it being stupid (because she's just gold and there are others more qualified) may logically be correct in that one dimension of judging what's good for an organization. As I said in the beginning, there are several other dimensions of what makes a decision bad or good. What if Eve improves rapidly and starts appearing regularly in GSTL games? That would be good for SlayerS on so many levels. As long as this isn't some kind of charity and SlayerS and Eve are commited to SC2, I fully support the recruitment. | ||
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SalsaShark
United States56 Posts
<3 <3 | ||
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HybridZ
Canada103 Posts
On August 08 2011 03:10 Keren wrote: Recruiting a girl for the simple fact that she is a girl while completely aware that she is never going to be competitive does absolutely nothing to advance women in esports. It does the opposite. It serves to highlight the fact that women need what effectively amounts to a handout in order to be able to sit down with a pro team, or at least give that perception. The whole basis for it is actually flawed because it assumes some sort of disadvantage for girls. This isn't football. You have fingers, eyes, and a brain. If you don't want to put the effort in that the other people have (in this case, all males), then you simply don't deserve to be on a pro team. I agree with you totally. Players should be signed for their skill only, not because of their gender no matter how rare female gamers are. I do think a lot of sex-deprived sc2 players will be following her every move though lol jk.. No disrespect meant but Im not a fan of signing a player based on "skills and looks" although she is very beatiful I must say. . Best of luck to her if she ends up competing at a high level then this was a great move that no one can really complain about. | ||
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Zax19
Czech Republic1136 Posts
On the other hand, if women want to be treated equally (although they are a minority in gaming) they should not expect people to be less critical of their play. Saying "sadly, you're not all that good to play in the GSL" is much more polite for me that saying "you're really good, for a girl" and I'm not going to say "you're really good" if I don’t honestly think it to be true. I'm reluctant to believe there aren't Korean women who can compete with code A players. Let them contact you. Don't force the issue, don't try to bring women to GSL just for the sake of "equality". That's how I see it. | ||
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Phayt
Canada346 Posts
On August 08 2011 04:06 Sek-Kuar wrote: Nope I was just saying that just like real girls dont dream about guys who spent their childhood playing with dools and watching Gilmore Girls, whos favourite film is Princess Diaries... Just like that real grown up boys dont dream about girls playing SC2. And its not really worth it, it might just seem like that when someone dont have enough male friends to talk about gaming. But no doubt they can be just as good as boys, didnt want to imply opposite. Its just not appropriate. This is actually 100% correct, thats for explaining it with this words No, it's like 0% correct actually. You're telling us how girls SHOULD be, and further putting forth an outright false statement in the implication that guys don't like gamer girls. I'd venture you're in the minority with that opinion around here. Or is the implication that the many guys who DO dream of getting a girl who plays starcraft(aka shares their interests(aka the basis of relationships)) are not real grown up boys? Saying that it's inappropriate for a girl to be a progamer is absolutely sexist, as you're suddenly deciding what women can and can't do. People complaining about her being on SlayerS because she's not good enough are silly, but you coming in here saying that she shouldn't be on SlayerS because it's somehow just plain not right, well that's just being an asshole. | ||
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Densebrains
Hong Kong1 Post
I am definitely a fan of this team who are pioneers in taking up and training female gamers. I will look forward eagerly to what Eve will bring to the GSTL and GSL. Forget about all the negative and sexist people out there and show us what you can do Eve <3 Eve Fighting!! | ||
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darklight54321
United States361 Posts
On August 08 2011 05:43 Phayt wrote: No, it's like 0% correct actually. You're telling us how girls SHOULD be, and further putting forth an outright false statement in the implication that guys don't like gamer girls. I'd venture you're in the minority with that opinion around here. Or is the implication that the many guys who DO dream of getting a girl who plays starcraft(aka shares their interests(aka the basis of relationships)) are not real grown up boys? Saying that it's inappropriate for a girl to be a progamer is absolutely sexist, as you're suddenly deciding what women can and can't do. People complaining about her being on SlayerS because she's not good enough are silly, but you coming in here saying that she shouldn't be on SlayerS because it's somehow just plain not right, well that's just being an asshole. actualy. its 100% correct, he only stated his personal opinion on the matter. Personally, i find girl gamers more intriguing then non gamer girls. Thats also sexist in the same fashion that his is sexist, it's just in the opposite direction. Saying someone doesn't like a gender because they aren't like what they think that gender should be. thats real life. "i dont like men who are ugly" fits in that category, "I don't like vain girls" fits into that category. it's not sexist, its a personal opinion. Now if he acts on these beliefs in a way that negatively impacts a female (say firing a girl gamer or something) then he is indeed sexist in the way that YOU imply him to be, and he would be legally as well. | ||
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Professor Awesome
Germany26 Posts
On August 14 2011 13:34 darklight54321 wrote:actualy. its 100% correct, he only stated his personal opinion on the matter. The fact that it's just his personal opinion doesn't change that it's a sexist and shitty opinion. | ||
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The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
On August 08 2011 03:44 Sek-Kuar wrote: Id personally never date girl playing anything except Worms. Video games and other stuff like beer, smoking etc. are idiotic ways to spend guys free time, and frankly nobody expect more right? But from girls I kinda expect more. I really hate when I see girl smoking, talking vulgarly, driking beer (1-2 is okayish, though wine is always better) - or wasting time playing real games (as I said, I actually liked playing Worms with my ex). Call me traditional, but IMO girls should be simply nice and reasonable. On the other hand, I guess there is different culture in Korea, so perhaps someone can take nerdy girls seriously there.. If you don't want to date a girl who plays games, fine, whatever. What that has to do with Eve who knows. But you don't have the right to say what girls [b should[/b] like, and judge them for deviating from that. It's none of your damn business. No one cares what you think girls should be like. Great post by Jessica; know that Boxer will always be our hero. To those that ask 'why not pick a girl who is actually good', lrn2read, the reasons for her selection are detailed. She's an innocent girl who has done nothing to deserve the shit she's got, just stfu and be happy for her; once again it's not your business, she is SlayerS like it or not. EDIT; @darklight Not true, because he didn't just say he prefers x type of girl (which is completely fucking off topic anyway) but said that girls should behave in a certain way. Then he implied that no one takes girl gamers seriously. | ||
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The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
Count the number of female SC2 pros. Zero, right? With no signs of that changing? Guess what, there are plenty of males who are better than Eve, but SlayerS weren't looking for a player, they were looking for a fucking female player, because they want SC2 to grow and want female gamers to be a part of that so they felt that some affirmative action was neccessary. They picked her for her potential. They didn't pick her over any more skilled male player. Bottom line is, if you don't like it tough shit, you have no bearing on the decisions of the team, it's not there to bend to your will. Your vote isn't counted. | ||
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