Whenever you hit post in this thread, think long and hard. Are you showing the proper amount of respect? If that is not the case, do not hit the post button.
I've read Jessica's OP and a handful of responses, but to be honest, I just want to add to the heaps of evident respect and admiration for her and her sense of responsibility and conviction.
On August 15 2011 10:54 zarepath wrote: Yeah, but you don't have the right for what you say to actually matter. So don't pretend like it does.
Never have and never will, however that does not mean that somebody can't say anything. This topic was well over and should be dead but it is ignorant to say that somebody doesn't have the right to complain >
Edit:
On August 15 2011 11:00 NoobSkills wrote: I don't understand the Korean culture where suicide is so popular, but I also know nothing on the subject period. The one person in my family committed suicide long before I knew her, or could remember knowing her. In the US there are laws against stuff like this as well though it stretches the limit of the law.
This story should change the mind of you free speech screamers. When this stuff happens there should be recourse.
Also this is not really an example of free speech. In no way would this be condoned as somebody practicing free speech, it is harassment by all forms.
Both incidents as far as the US would be concerned are Free Speech. Perhaps there are laws that allow you to persecute the offenders, but the conviction rate would be very low and time served as well especially in the case where the end result is/could be death. It is harassment they should be persecuted.
Freedom of Speech in the US only protects you if you say something like that about the government. When you say that to a person it's either libel or slander, in this case it's libel.
You should read up on Freedom of Speech. There are over 1000 court cases all with different implications and is not just about the government. Most of this isn't even Libel as well, and most could not be prosecuted in the US, but in Korea it is different. They should be able to prosecute in the US imo though.
hmm shes diamond? i don't mind, but after around 2 months, if she doesn't start showing some results and at least get into mid masters, slayers might as well just create a whole nother division for female slayers team
On August 14 2011 14:12 The KY wrote: People are saying they are angry that Eve was given special treatment because of her gender; what fucking right do you have to be angry? You don't own SlayerS, it's not a fucking democracy. Who the fuck do you think you are? Count the number of female SC2 pros. Zero, right? With no signs of that changing? Guess what, there are plenty of males who are better than Eve, but SlayerS weren't looking for a player, they were looking for a fucking female player, because they want SC2 to grow and want female gamers to be a part of that so they felt that some affirmative action was neccessary. They picked her for her potential. They didn't pick her over any more skilled male player. Bottom line is, if you don't like it tough shit, you have no bearing on the decisions of the team, it's not there to bend to your will. Your vote isn't counted.
Look, the actual botom line is, if Eve never reaches GM level, or a modestly competitive masters. Slayers will never hear the end of it, and rightly so. If she proves to even be moderately competitive in small tournaments like the kind sixjax loves to play in, then slayers made the right choice.
Until she reaches that level though, the complainers have the right to complain about it because there is nothing besides the "We think we need female gamers so i don't really care if she's that good, she might become good enough that i dont regret this decision" which is what i get from the whole thing. I dont think anyone outright expects her to win and be Code S (though would be awesome if she did become code s) but at least being moderately competitive would be the outcome that would create the most satisfaction.
Even if that was the case, we'd have to wait to see the outcome before judging. But it isn't the case; you haven't given a reason that the complainers have the right to complain even if she was in bronze league. It's not their organisation. They can acquire whatever players they want and no one has the right to complain.
I have the right to say anything that I want to, thank you very much. Who are you to tell me about my freedom of speech?
1. You're on an originally European forum. Europe has much less freedom of speech than you think.
2. The American right to freedom of speech has SIGNIFICANT restrictions. You only really have freedom of speech in a public assembly... in person...
On August 14 2011 14:12 The KY wrote: People are saying they are angry that Eve was given special treatment because of her gender; what fucking right do you have to be angry? You don't own SlayerS, it's not a fucking democracy. Who the fuck do you think you are? Count the number of female SC2 pros. Zero, right? With no signs of that changing? Guess what, there are plenty of males who are better than Eve, but SlayerS weren't looking for a player, they were looking for a fucking female player, because they want SC2 to grow and want female gamers to be a part of that so they felt that some affirmative action was neccessary. They picked her for her potential. They didn't pick her over any more skilled male player. Bottom line is, if you don't like it tough shit, you have no bearing on the decisions of the team, it's not there to bend to your will. Your vote isn't counted.
Look, the actual botom line is, if Eve never reaches GM level, or a modestly competitive masters. Slayers will never hear the end of it, and rightly so. If she proves to even be moderately competitive in small tournaments like the kind sixjax loves to play in, then slayers made the right choice.
Until she reaches that level though, the complainers have the right to complain about it because there is nothing besides the "We think we need female gamers so i don't really care if she's that good, she might become good enough that i dont regret this decision" which is what i get from the whole thing. I dont think anyone outright expects her to win and be Code S (though would be awesome if she did become code s) but at least being moderately competitive would be the outcome that would create the most satisfaction.
Even if that was the case, we'd have to wait to see the outcome before judging. But it isn't the case; you haven't given a reason that the complainers have the right to complain even if she was in bronze league. It's not their organisation. They can acquire whatever players they want and no one has the right to complain.
I have the right to say anything that I want to, thank you very much. Who are you to tell me about my freedom of speech?
*rolls eyes* Don't be obtuse, I'm not actually denying anyone their freedom to complain about things that don't concern them, I'm just saying that complaining about things that don't concern you makes you a fucking ass.
No to be honest, I just think that it makes you a bigot for not respecting somebodies right to complain about something they have a different opinion than you about.
This is my last post about the subject, and if you would like to further the conversation please PM me, but telling somebody they have no right to complain about something on an internet forum and then calling them a "fucking ass" for complaining is simply ignorant.
On that note, you're a bigot for not respecting my right to call someone a fucking ass. It's my opinion etc et fucking cetera.
Situation; your neighbour is complaining obnoxiously at you because your car is a colour that displeases him. He won't shut up about it.
Do you a) Nod sagely and tell him that you would never seek to deny his freedom of speech
or
b) Call him a fucking ass and tell him you'll have whatever colour car you damn well please.
This is what I mean when I say people do not have the right; it should be obvious that I'm not actually saying that their opinion is illegal and should be censored.
I don't care at all that they picked up a girl(actually think its pretty cool) but please stop saying KR DIAMOND = NA MASTERS. Well who the hell cares what the equavilant is if it isn't high grandmaster. But if slayers wants master level players on the worst server then by all means go for it.
A human being deserves respect, end of story. I've always despised the fact that the internet gives this anonymity that makes people think they can be disrespectful just because they know they won't be judged irl.
Seriously she could post 0 results and be bronze league, we could tell SlayerS they made a bad choice, but what happened here? No. I can't begin to understand what goes through people's minds... I'm sure they would love this kind of thing to happen to them or a loved one.
On August 14 2011 14:12 The KY wrote: People are saying they are angry that Eve was given special treatment because of her gender; what fucking right do you have to be angry? You don't own SlayerS, it's not a fucking democracy. Who the fuck do you think you are? Count the number of female SC2 pros. Zero, right? With no signs of that changing? Guess what, there are plenty of males who are better than Eve, but SlayerS weren't looking for a player, they were looking for a fucking female player, because they want SC2 to grow and want female gamers to be a part of that so they felt that some affirmative action was neccessary. They picked her for her potential. They didn't pick her over any more skilled male player. Bottom line is, if you don't like it tough shit, you have no bearing on the decisions of the team, it's not there to bend to your will. Your vote isn't counted.
Look, the actual botom line is, if Eve never reaches GM level, or a modestly competitive masters. Slayers will never hear the end of it, and rightly so. If she proves to even be moderately competitive in small tournaments like the kind sixjax loves to play in, then slayers made the right choice.
Until she reaches that level though, the complainers have the right to complain about it because there is nothing besides the "We think we need female gamers so i don't really care if she's that good, she might become good enough that i dont regret this decision" which is what i get from the whole thing. I dont think anyone outright expects her to win and be Code S (though would be awesome if she did become code s) but at least being moderately competitive would be the outcome that would create the most satisfaction.
Even if that was the case, we'd have to wait to see the outcome before judging. But it isn't the case; you haven't given a reason that the complainers have the right to complain even if she was in bronze league. It's not their organisation. They can acquire whatever players they want and no one has the right to complain.
I have the right to say anything that I want to, thank you very much. Who are you to tell me about my freedom of speech?
*rolls eyes* Don't be obtuse, I'm not actually denying anyone their freedom to complain about things that don't concern them, I'm just saying that complaining about things that don't concern you makes you a fucking ass.
No to be honest, I just think that it makes you a bigot for not respecting somebodies right to complain about something they have a different opinion than you about.
This is my last post about the subject, and if you would like to further the conversation please PM me, but telling somebody they have no right to complain about something on an internet forum and then calling them a "fucking ass" for complaining is simply ignorant.
On that note, you're a bigot for not respecting my right to call someone a fucking ass. It's my opinion etc et fucking cetera.
Situation; your neighbour is complaining obnoxiously at you because your car is a colour that displeases him. He won't shut up about it.
Do you a) Nod sagely and tell him that you would never seek to deny his freedom of speech
or
b) Call him a fucking ass and tell him you'll have whatever colour car you damn well please.
This is what I mean when I say people do not have the right; it should be obvious that I'm not actually saying that their opinion is illegal and should be censored.
I was amused to see why this thread was bumped and it's the same old shit. I hope you realize that is an absurd analogy.
I cannot believe stuff like this gets wheels in our community let alone the lengths some people will go.
On August 14 2011 14:12 The KY wrote: People are saying they are angry that Eve was given special treatment because of her gender; what fucking right do you have to be angry? You don't own SlayerS, it's not a fucking democracy. Who the fuck do you think you are? Count the number of female SC2 pros. Zero, right? With no signs of that changing? Guess what, there are plenty of males who are better than Eve, but SlayerS weren't looking for a player, they were looking for a fucking female player, because they want SC2 to grow and want female gamers to be a part of that so they felt that some affirmative action was neccessary. They picked her for her potential. They didn't pick her over any more skilled male player. Bottom line is, if you don't like it tough shit, you have no bearing on the decisions of the team, it's not there to bend to your will. Your vote isn't counted.
Look, the actual botom line is, if Eve never reaches GM level, or a modestly competitive masters. Slayers will never hear the end of it, and rightly so. If she proves to even be moderately competitive in small tournaments like the kind sixjax loves to play in, then slayers made the right choice.
Until she reaches that level though, the complainers have the right to complain about it because there is nothing besides the "We think we need female gamers so i don't really care if she's that good, she might become good enough that i dont regret this decision" which is what i get from the whole thing. I dont think anyone outright expects her to win and be Code S (though would be awesome if she did become code s) but at least being moderately competitive would be the outcome that would create the most satisfaction.
Even if that was the case, we'd have to wait to see the outcome before judging. But it isn't the case; you haven't given a reason that the complainers have the right to complain even if she was in bronze league. It's not their organisation. They can acquire whatever players they want and no one has the right to complain.
I have the right to say anything that I want to, thank you very much. Who are you to tell me about my freedom of speech?
1. You're on an originally European forum. Europe has much less freedom of speech than you think.
2. The American right to freedom of speech has SIGNIFICANT restrictions. You only really have freedom of speech in a public assembly... in person...
1. He is now on a forum that is viewed most by those from the US. I don't see why your point was relevant since it is mainly those from the US who visit this thread and a Korean was the OP. http://websites.hcirn.com/teamliquid.net/
2. There are way too many variances in US Law about Freedom of Speech to be listed here. There are not only restrictions, but allowances that are too numerous to list.
I can't wait to see more master females in pro teams - there are so many already, but there will be more... I am gold rated too, and all I think this does is re-enforce the idea that I too can go pro if i work my butt off...
I hope you'll take time to train on the NA servers too, and hope to see you on the ladder sometime - would also be awesome to see some of the pro girls at the ESL Iron Lady events!
gl hf ! Team Fem-FX celebrates women in gaming everywhere... go go team slayers!!
Wow, I didn't know about all of this, only bits and pieces, but I will proudly say that I got yo back! I can't believe that anyone would talk trash, specifically to 임요환 or Eve (don't know her Korean name) or to you Jessica (ㅈㅅㅎㅇ), for any reason. The whole team deserves respect and those who don't show it should be smacked in the face with a keyboard and tied up with a mouse. (ㅋㅋㅋ I hope no one heeds this advice as serious).
I really dont see what the problem is with having girls involved in gaming. I get that in physical sports gender is seperated as both men and women have (aside from the obvious guys) different physical make-up's. But starcraft and e-sports in general is more about a test of intelligence and mental dexterity. This is something that surley both genders are equally capeable of.
Anyway, I wish Eve all the luck in the world, I really hope that she can ignore all the hate and just do the thing that makes her happy in the best possible way. SlayerS Hwaiting!
The whole team deserves respect and those who don't show it should be smacked in the face with a keyboard and tied up with a mouse.
It's a sad reflection on the world that there is even a perceived difference between female and male gamers. Society in general means it is far less likely a female will get involved, clearly once they become involved however, the potential capabilities are the same when it comes to Starcraft 2, and anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded.
The fact of the matter is, that in some areas, women, or men, are treated worse statistically, so it is natural that they need some protection. An example from European Law where a female and a male of varying experience and skills apply for a job the employer is allowed to adopt a policy of hiring the underrepresented sex in that field on those grounds, this seems to support SlayerS attitude here. In this case, if EVE genuinely has the enthusiasm to compete, then it is very much a reasonable decision.
EPT
