EPTI am truly sorry for all the girls out that play to win and train hard knowing that teams are only taking on entertaining girls rather than anyone good..... Dark day for Esports indeed,
About some troubles (SlayerS_Jessica) - Page 50
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aka_star
United Kingdom1546 Posts
I am truly sorry for all the girls out that play to win and train hard knowing that teams are only taking on entertaining girls rather than anyone good..... Dark day for Esports indeed, | ||
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Stropheum
United States1124 Posts
While I think this is a really bad way to go about it due to the fact that you're not promoting female gamers such as megumi, who are known for their skill rather than the fact that they're female, and propogating the notion that female gamers are by nature inferior is a little closed minded, slayers is a business, and they made a business decision. I'm a little hesitant to even post this, because I'm having a hard time distinguishing what, in this category is considered "inappropriate". The fact that a diamond player can be a "pro gamer" 100% for the fact that they're a woman is a little absurd to me, and I think it's going to harm the perspective people have of female gamers in the long run. In my opinion, if you're going to be considered a pro gamer for slayers in this case, you should be able to take some games off at least some of the players on the team, and I would have a hard time believing she could manage that. If it's good PR for slayers then so be it, but I think they're more concerned with getting some publicity rather than benefiting e-sports. It was stated in the OP that Eve shows "potential" whatever that may mean, but I've never heard of a pro gaming team recruiting any male diamond players because of their "potential". | ||
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fuzzytoad
Canada57 Posts
Ladder ranking is not a good indicator of potential. There are players who play 5k+ games and barely scrape masters. There are some who make it within a month of touching the game. I'm not sure what criteria SlayerS uses to screen which players have potential and which don't, and I do not know anything about Eve's gameplay, how long she has been playing, etc. etc. so I can't say for 100% sure that she is going to be good or bad. Unless I am mistaken, niether can any of you. The idea of growing a pro-gamer is not that a team selects a good gamer and makes him/her a pro gamer. Perhaps many of you are underestimating the skill gap between what you consider a "good player" and the level of somebody like MMA? To produce talent, a team selects somebody who has potential, regardless of current skill, and develops that skill to above the level he/she can reasonably achieve on his/her own. Case in point: July. Now, obviously SlayerS may not be looking for "up and coming talent" of ALL sorts. Otherwise they would have to sort through tons of players with "potential". Some of you harp on the fact that they would not accept a male diamond player. I'm not sure what your point is. When we consider unrepresented demographics in Esports, what's the first thing that comes to mind? Obviously women. There is a lot to gain and little to lose (except perhaps the respect of a few misguided (imo) people) in producing one of the first female pro-gamers. On the other hand, if you choose a male diamond player and he becomes amazing, he is one of many amazing male players. There is clearly not as much to gain. I suppose that you can call this "sexist" in that they have preferentially chosen a female player. But in a business that involves talent scouting, there HAVE to be certain arbitrary criteria people use to thin out the crowd. You may as well say its discrimination against ugly people that model scouts only look for attractive people. You're right that they ARE selecting against a certain type of person. I'm just not sure that some people aren't throwing the word out there without actually fleshing out why what they are doing is actually wrong. | ||
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Sideburn
United States442 Posts
People may say you are overreacting or reacting extremely emotionally to the situation. I might even agree with those statement. But I see that as a good thing. I think it's super touching how concerned you are for the well being of your players beyond their performance at a silly game. Keep it up! | ||
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DragonDefonce
United States790 Posts
or to defend SlayerS' decision to bring her on board. In the case of the former, I cannot comment since I don't know anything about it. For the latter, however, its natural for people to criticize the decision. Aside from her league, aside from everything else, you are showing her off for publicity. You can't possibly say with a straight face that had she been a dude, she would've gotten the same treatment. Fans will and should call that out. While there are a lot of flaming that just isn't warranted, it just seems that in the process of fighting back the flamers, you are dismissing legitimate criticisms. If you claim it is the team's right to invite any player it sees it into it, then it is the fans' right to criticize players and teams for what they do. | ||
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seupac
Canada148 Posts
On July 23 2011 04:43 aka_star wrote: What a provocative post down grading the integrity of esports, defending clowns and comedians that play sc2. If you dont want to put in the time and effort to be the best then become a cheer leader and entertain people that way. Giving the girl post up to a more deserving female that tries hard (I know a few). The entertainment factor should not be a reason to put someone on a team. If a pro ball game hired an entertainer to play on their team not because it might make interesting games they'd find the fans outraged and I think this is exactly what is happening here and so it should. I am truly sorry for all the girls out that play to win and train hard knowing that teams are only taking on entertaining girls rather than anyone good..... Dark day for Esports indeed, I think the idea is that Eve is a somewhat successful girl gamer in korea who was willing to move into a team house with slayers, and bringing her on to slayers is the first step in creating a community and opening for all those other girl gamers you speak of if anyone is a deserving female that tries hard for her community it is jessica - boxer and her are trying hard to nurture and grow sc2 in korea as she said internet slander is very serious in korea, this means that she has everything to lose and i just dont see what any of you guys have to gain by taking jessica and slayers as a whole down a notch. actually its disgusting. | ||
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Carkis
Canada302 Posts
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Synwave
United States2803 Posts
Good luck and Slayers fighting! | ||
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Prime`Rib
United States613 Posts
Let get this straight. 1. Slayers's current line up is strong. Even without Eve, they do not need to recruit another "potential" to fill their line up. 2. Jessica recruited Eve to target a new market audience. Eve is the best choice atm and that is why she got recruited. So this whole ordeal is just a waste of time. I dont know who started it but both sides are overreacting. | ||
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KristianJS
2107 Posts
Slayers fighting! | ||
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ampson
United States2355 Posts
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deadjawa
United States179 Posts
/end discussion | ||
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SkaPunk
United States471 Posts
This is great for esports, its culture changing, and that is what we need right now. | ||
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ghosthunter
United States414 Posts
Criticism and death threats and harassment are completely different and even in our criticisms we should also attempt to see both sides of the argument and not be as harsh in your reviews of it. I look forward to seeing Eve play in future SlayerS matches and watching her improve akin to so many other watchers who are on the same journey to improve their own skills. | ||
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Sandro
897 Posts
Also being a supposed nice guy doesn't help matters. | ||
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Creighton
United States35 Posts
That being said, I can see why people disagree with her being on Slayers. Nothing else that has been said do I see their point, because I would love to see some really high level female progamers in SC2, but really this girl has not really proved beyond a reasonable doubt that she is in-fact of pro talent. I read through your post and you said that you didn't place her on Slayers because you expected her to do well in the GSL. My question then is, what do you expect of her? To make the games more entertaining? I think outstanding high skill games are what make SC2 incredibly fun to watch. I think everyone Team Liquid forums has downrated games on polls that ask 'Would you suggest this match' based on it being too much of a slaughter. You also said you wanted her to be the one who proved that girls can do well in Starcraft, well I hope so, but you're really putting a lot on her way to soon. You don't even know if she's going to be able to compete with the current GSL/GSTL line ups. As for the whole 'don't condemn her because she couldn't make Master's League in a month' I disagree with that. Really, I have heard she's been playing for a lot longer than a month, so I'm not sure to believe the whole month thing anyways. Then there's the fact that she probably played her placement matches on the Slayers account right after she got recruited and landed in Gold. Meaning there's a lot better players you are overlooking just because she is a girl, which is sexist of you. I personally do not care if the player I am watching is a girl or a guy, I watch for game play. Passing up hundreds, more likely thousands, of better players because she is a girl who can make diamond is kind of silly. "You might brush off the Female League as being insignificant because the players are Silvers and Golds but in reality, it is no mean feat for a female to reach Master level while laddering against males. It is difficult for the average male player, too." - SlayerSJessica ^You said this, which caught me the wrong way. It is not small feat for ANY player to reach Master's League. That's the whole point. You are also forgetting that most of the pros play in the Grandmaster's League which is a step up. I expect most people are thinking 'Wow, she gets sponsored because she's a girl that is diamond. I'm x-league and I'm not sponsored. Pretty stupid.' Which makes them lash out. Yet again, I don't agree with their lashing out or the ways they do it. Yet again, I do not care what sex someone is when I'm watching a video game and can't see the player anyways, I just want to see high level players competiting against each other because they earned it, not someone who got their because she's a female that is decently high up in the Leagues. "This is like the first steps being taken by a toddler, so it's inevitable that the starting level is low." -SlayerSJessica This isn't really like the first steps of a child. It's something new joining into something established. It's more like when black people were actually allowed to compete in sports in America. Even then players were picked on talent. They didn't chose random black people and throw them in because of their skin color to prove that they can play to. "The team SlayerS is a professional team. I believe she should be called a pro-gamer as long as she is a member of the team, because despite her skill level being that of an amateur, it would not be right for a team member to differentiate each other as "the amateur" or "the professional"." -SlayerSJessica I bolded that parts that contradicted themselves. Being on a pro team doesn't make you a professional, it usually does. You made Eve the exception to this rule. You even state her that she is an amateur but you signed her anyways. I do hope you see how much pressure you've brought to this situation though. I think it was a mistake to thrust this girl into the spot she is now in because of your haste to make a girl professional gamer. You saw a girl with what you yourself called the skills of an amateur and said 'This girl will be as good as the current progamers.' I really hope she can live up to that, because if she can't I could see this whole situation getting a lot worse, which is why I think you should have tested your theory before taking it to the bank (so to say). I really hope SlayerSEve all the best. I hope you can live up to the expectation. I am sorry that you have so much pressure being put on your shoulders by everyone in the SC2 community now. Good luck. | ||
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Shizel
Canada23 Posts
On July 23 2011 06:32 deadjawa wrote: In summary:
/end discussion ^^ Very much this. | ||
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willoc
Canada1530 Posts
I am sorry that a number of male fan boys still display kindergarten attitudes towards females. Obviously they are very frustrated at their lack of female attention and need to display hostility to females in whatever avenue they may find. These people are sexist scum and I am glad you are taking action against them. I must commend you on choosing Eve. She presents herself very professionally and I think she will raise the bar in at least some way for females in e-sports. As always, I hope you continue the fight and I think you are doing a great job at progressing the e-sports scene. You will most likely be remembered as having a key role in the history of e-sports development due to your hard work! | ||
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Goldfish
2230 Posts
In a team house, you'll probably practice much more than at a home (and consistent practice too, not just once in a while) which will help (HuK for example). Who knows how much Eve is capable off. She was in Diamond then but with the extra practice, I'm sure she can move up to at least Masters (and in Korea top Master players are equivalent to Grand Masters in NA. Not sure if top Diamond compares to NA Masters though). Point is she probably is very capable of doing well. Also most of the SlayerS teams were sort of unknowns before (SlayerS did not recruit many players already in the GSL that is). Eve may potential to do well too. | ||
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Klogbert
United States139 Posts
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