• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:33
CEST 03:33
KST 10:33
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202552RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams7Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing RSL Season 1 - Final Week
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams BW General Discussion [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Ginuda's JaeDong Interview Series
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Post Pic of your Favorite Food! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 691 users

About some troubles (SlayerS_Jessica) - Page 50

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 48 49 50 51 52 59 Next
Whenever you hit post in this thread, think long and hard. Are you showing the proper amount of respect? If that is not the case, do not hit the post button.
aka_star
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United Kingdom1546 Posts
July 22 2011 19:43 GMT
#981
What a provocative post down grading the integrity of esports, defending clowns and comedians that play sc2. If you dont want to put in the time and effort to be the best then become a cheer leader and entertain people that way. Giving the girl post up to a more deserving female that tries hard (I know a few). The entertainment factor should not be a reason to put someone on a team. If a pro ball game hired an entertainer to play on their team not because it might make interesting games they'd find the fans outraged and I think this is exactly what is happening here and so it should.

I am truly sorry for all the girls out that play to win and train hard knowing that teams are only taking on entertaining girls rather than anyone good..... Dark day for Esports indeed,
FlashDave.999 aka Star
Stropheum
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1124 Posts
July 22 2011 19:44 GMT
#982
I honestly don't understand where all the drama is coming from. It's obvious that Eve was recruited as a "pro" gamer specifically for PR, for the fact that she is a girl and not because of her skill.

While I think this is a really bad way to go about it due to the fact that you're not promoting female gamers such as megumi, who are known for their skill rather than the fact that they're female, and propogating the notion that female gamers are by nature inferior is a little closed minded, slayers is a business, and they made a business decision.

I'm a little hesitant to even post this, because I'm having a hard time distinguishing what, in this category is considered "inappropriate". The fact that a diamond player can be a "pro gamer" 100% for the fact that they're a woman is a little absurd to me, and I think it's going to harm the perspective people have of female gamers in the long run.

In my opinion, if you're going to be considered a pro gamer for slayers in this case, you should be able to take some games off at least some of the players on the team, and I would have a hard time believing she could manage that.

If it's good PR for slayers then so be it, but I think they're more concerned with getting some publicity rather than benefiting e-sports. It was stated in the OP that Eve shows "potential" whatever that may mean, but I've never heard of a pro gaming team recruiting any male diamond players because of their "potential".
fuzzytoad
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada57 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 20:44:13
July 22 2011 20:32 GMT
#983
People place too much emphasis on the fact that she is diamond. You make arguments that masters players would be better to recruit...but honestly, the difference between masters and diamond is small compared to the distance between masters and pro. If you can make a masters player become pro gamer level, you can just as easily take a diamond player and do the same thing.

Ladder ranking is not a good indicator of potential. There are players who play 5k+ games and barely scrape masters. There are some who make it within a month of touching the game.

I'm not sure what criteria SlayerS uses to screen which players have potential and which don't, and I do not know anything about Eve's gameplay, how long she has been playing, etc. etc. so I can't say for 100% sure that she is going to be good or bad.

Unless I am mistaken, niether can any of you.

The idea of growing a pro-gamer is not that a team selects a good gamer and makes him/her a pro gamer. Perhaps many of you are underestimating the skill gap between what you consider a "good player" and the level of somebody like MMA? To produce talent, a team selects somebody who has potential, regardless of current skill, and develops that skill to above the level he/she can reasonably achieve on his/her own. Case in point: July.

Now, obviously SlayerS may not be looking for "up and coming talent" of ALL sorts. Otherwise they would have to sort through tons of players with "potential". Some of you harp on the fact that they would not accept a male diamond player. I'm not sure what your point is.

When we consider unrepresented demographics in Esports, what's the first thing that comes to mind? Obviously women. There is a lot to gain and little to lose (except perhaps the respect of a few misguided (imo) people) in producing one of the first female pro-gamers. On the other hand, if you choose a male diamond player and he becomes amazing, he is one of many amazing male players. There is clearly not as much to gain. I suppose that you can call this "sexist" in that they have preferentially chosen a female player. But in a business that involves talent scouting, there HAVE to be certain arbitrary criteria people use to thin out the crowd. You may as well say its discrimination against ugly people that model scouts only look for attractive people. You're right that they ARE selecting against a certain type of person. I'm just not sure that some people aren't throwing the word out there without actually fleshing out why what they are doing is actually wrong.

Sideburn
Profile Joined August 2010
United States442 Posts
July 22 2011 20:58 GMT
#984
I just wanted to post to show my support for Kim Ka Yeon, SlayerS_Eve, and the whole SlayerS team.

People may say you are overreacting or reacting extremely emotionally to the situation. I might even agree with those statement. But I see that as a good thing. I think it's super touching how concerned you are for the well being of your players beyond their performance at a silly game. Keep it up!
DragonDefonce
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States790 Posts
July 22 2011 21:05 GMT
#985
I don't know if this post is attempting to fight back what Haeun_Cielu posted (an incident of which I have no knowledge of but it seems he manipulated words to criticize the new female gamer)

or to defend SlayerS' decision to bring her on board.

In the case of the former, I cannot comment since I don't know anything about it.

For the latter, however, its natural for people to criticize the decision. Aside from her league, aside from everything else, you are showing her off for publicity. You can't possibly say with a straight face that had she been a dude, she would've gotten the same treatment. Fans will and should call that out. While there are a lot of flaming that just isn't warranted, it just seems that in the process of fighting back the flamers, you are dismissing legitimate criticisms. If you claim it is the team's right to invite any player it sees it into it, then it is the fans' right to criticize players and teams for what they do.
seupac
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada148 Posts
July 22 2011 21:21 GMT
#986
On July 23 2011 04:43 aka_star wrote:
What a provocative post down grading the integrity of esports, defending clowns and comedians that play sc2. If you dont want to put in the time and effort to be the best then become a cheer leader and entertain people that way. Giving the girl post up to a more deserving female that tries hard (I know a few). The entertainment factor should not be a reason to put someone on a team. If a pro ball game hired an entertainer to play on their team not because it might make interesting games they'd find the fans outraged and I think this is exactly what is happening here and so it should.

I am truly sorry for all the girls out that play to win and train hard knowing that teams are only taking on entertaining girls rather than anyone good..... Dark day for Esports indeed,


I think the idea is that Eve is a somewhat successful girl gamer in korea who was willing to move into a team house with slayers, and bringing her on to slayers is the first step in creating a community and opening for all those other girl gamers you speak of

if anyone is a deserving female that tries hard for her community it is jessica - boxer and her are trying hard to nurture and grow sc2 in korea

as she said internet slander is very serious in korea, this means that she has everything to lose and i just dont see what any of you guys have to gain by taking jessica and slayers as a whole down a notch. actually its disgusting.
Carkis
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada302 Posts
July 22 2011 21:23 GMT
#987
Well written. In NA i think everyone has a thick skin and theres tons of cyberbullying but it doesnt affect us, but in Korea it is a really big deal and rightfully so. I hope the best for SlayerS and that this is the end of Eve and everyones troubles
Synwave
Profile Joined July 2009
United States2803 Posts
July 22 2011 21:25 GMT
#988
Really appreciated reading this and hearing another side. I dont agree with certain comments but I do agree that harassing someone is wrong and even criminal past a certain point.

Good luck and Slayers fighting!
♞Nerdrage is the cause of global warming♞
Prime`Rib
Profile Joined September 2010
United States613 Posts
July 22 2011 21:25 GMT
#989
I am not sure why people criticized on the fact Eve took a spot of a "potential" player.

Let get this straight.

1. Slayers's current line up is strong. Even without Eve, they do not need to recruit another "potential" to fill their line up.

2. Jessica recruited Eve to target a new market audience. Eve is the best choice atm and that is why she got recruited.

So this whole ordeal is just a waste of time. I dont know who started it but both sides are overreacting.
... funerals are insane, the chicks are so horny, its not even fair, its like fishing with dynamite ...
KristianJS
Profile Joined October 2009
2107 Posts
July 22 2011 21:27 GMT
#990
Jessica I don't understand how anyone could send you or Slayers hatemail. All you've done was stand up for your players.

Slayers fighting!
You need to be 100% behind someone before you can stab them in the back
ampson
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2355 Posts
July 22 2011 21:30 GMT
#991
The main thing that I got out of this is that there is a major culture difference over there in korea. Most american celebrities ignore trolls altogether, and we are all anons all the time (unless we chose to make it otherwise). And WHAT KIND OF ESPORTS FAN would insult boxer and tell him to retire? Those people are straight up weird.
deadjawa
Profile Joined May 2011
United States179 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 21:34:23
July 22 2011 21:32 GMT
#992
In summary:
  • More women in E-sports is obviously a good thing
  • If Slayers wants to spend some of its hard earned money on bringing up a female player more power to them
  • The majority of TL agrees even if a few select people want to flame on a forum.


/end discussion
SkaPunk
Profile Joined October 2010
United States471 Posts
July 22 2011 21:39 GMT
#993
SlayerS_EvE fighting!

This is great for esports, its culture changing, and that is what we need right now.
Team Fallacy
ghosthunter
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States414 Posts
July 22 2011 21:51 GMT
#994
You, Boxer, Eve, and SlayerS as a whole have nothing but my respect in these matters and I wish you the best in ceasing their occurrence. It is unacceptable for cyberbullying to be "accepted" and only through our condemnation will anything ever change.

Criticism and death threats and harassment are completely different and even in our criticisms we should also attempt to see both sides of the argument and not be as harsh in your reviews of it.

I look forward to seeing Eve play in future SlayerS matches and watching her improve akin to so many other watchers who are on the same journey to improve their own skills.
Sandro
Profile Joined April 2011
897 Posts
July 22 2011 21:54 GMT
#995
Face it, all the people angry with SlayerS_EvE are angry at the female gender itself for not being able to date them.

Also being a supposed nice guy doesn't help matters.
Creighton
Profile Joined October 2010
United States35 Posts
July 22 2011 22:11 GMT
#996
The problem with being the first of anything is that you take the brunt of the bad. Especially in a community dominated by males. The behavior is unacceptable but it is also unavoidable. It's been seen throughout human history.

That being said, I can see why people disagree with her being on Slayers. Nothing else that has been said do I see their point, because I would love to see some really high level female progamers in SC2, but really this girl has not really proved beyond a reasonable doubt that she is in-fact of pro talent.

I read through your post and you said that you didn't place her on Slayers because you expected her to do well in the GSL. My question then is, what do you expect of her? To make the games more entertaining? I think outstanding high skill games are what make SC2 incredibly fun to watch. I think everyone Team Liquid forums has downrated games on polls that ask 'Would you suggest this match' based on it being too much of a slaughter. You also said you wanted her to be the one who proved that girls can do well in Starcraft, well I hope so, but you're really putting a lot on her way to soon. You don't even know if she's going to be able to compete with the current GSL/GSTL line ups.

As for the whole 'don't condemn her because she couldn't make Master's League in a month' I disagree with that. Really, I have heard she's been playing for a lot longer than a month, so I'm not sure to believe the whole month thing anyways. Then there's the fact that she probably played her placement matches on the Slayers account right after she got recruited and landed in Gold. Meaning there's a lot better players you are overlooking just because she is a girl, which is sexist of you. I personally do not care if the player I am watching is a girl or a guy, I watch for game play. Passing up hundreds, more likely thousands, of better players because she is a girl who can make diamond is kind of silly.

"You might brush off the Female League as being insignificant because the players are Silvers and Golds but in reality, it is no mean feat for a female to reach Master level while laddering against males. It is difficult for the average male player, too." - SlayerSJessica

^You said this, which caught me the wrong way. It is not small feat for ANY player to reach Master's League. That's the whole point. You are also forgetting that most of the pros play in the Grandmaster's League which is a step up. I expect most people are thinking 'Wow, she gets sponsored because she's a girl that is diamond. I'm x-league and I'm not sponsored. Pretty stupid.' Which makes them lash out. Yet again, I don't agree with their lashing out or the ways they do it. Yet again, I do not care what sex someone is when I'm watching a video game and can't see the player anyways, I just want to see high level players competiting against each other because they earned it, not someone who got their because she's a female that is decently high up in the Leagues.

"This is like the first steps being taken by a toddler, so it's inevitable that the starting level is low." -SlayerSJessica

This isn't really like the first steps of a child. It's something new joining into something established. It's more like when black people were actually allowed to compete in sports in America. Even then players were picked on talent. They didn't chose random black people and throw them in because of their skin color to prove that they can play to.

"The team SlayerS is a professional team.
I believe she should be called a pro-gamer as long as she is a member of the team, because despite her skill level being that of an amateur, it would not be right for a team member to differentiate each other as "the amateur" or "the professional"." -SlayerSJessica

I bolded that parts that contradicted themselves. Being on a pro team doesn't make you a professional, it usually does. You made Eve the exception to this rule. You even state her that she is an amateur but you signed her anyways.

I do hope you see how much pressure you've brought to this situation though. I think it was a mistake to thrust this girl into the spot she is now in because of your haste to make a girl professional gamer. You saw a girl with what you yourself called the skills of an amateur and said 'This girl will be as good as the current progamers.' I really hope she can live up to that, because if she can't I could see this whole situation getting a lot worse, which is why I think you should have tested your theory before taking it to the bank (so to say).

I really hope SlayerSEve all the best. I hope you can live up to the expectation. I am sorry that you have so much pressure being put on your shoulders by everyone in the SC2 community now. Good luck.
Show me the meaning of being lonely.
Shizel
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada23 Posts
July 22 2011 22:38 GMT
#997
On July 23 2011 06:32 deadjawa wrote:
In summary:
  • More women in E-sports is obviously a good thing
  • If Slayers wants to spend some of its hard earned money on bringing up a female player more power to them
  • The majority of TL agrees even if a few select people want to flame on a forum.


/end discussion


^^ Very much this.
willoc
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada1530 Posts
July 22 2011 23:09 GMT
#998
Slayers_Jessica,

I am sorry that a number of male fan boys still display kindergarten attitudes towards females. Obviously they are very frustrated at their lack of female attention and need to display hostility to females in whatever avenue they may find. These people are sexist scum and I am glad you are taking action against them.

I must commend you on choosing Eve. She presents herself very professionally and I think she will raise the bar in at least some way for females in e-sports. As always, I hope you continue the fight and I think you are doing a great job at progressing the e-sports scene. You will most likely be remembered as having a key role in the history of e-sports development due to your hard work!
Be bold and mighty forces will come to your aid!
Goldfish
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
2230 Posts
July 23 2011 00:56 GMT
#999
As for the Eve and Gold thing - In Korea there are no placement matches (you start at gold then only move up one league at a time). She was in Diamond but when she was in Diamond, was she practicing much?

In a team house, you'll probably practice much more than at a home (and consistent practice too, not just once in a while) which will help (HuK for example).

Who knows how much Eve is capable off. She was in Diamond then but with the extra practice, I'm sure she can move up to at least Masters (and in Korea top Master players are equivalent to Grand Masters in NA. Not sure if top Diamond compares to NA Masters though).

Point is she probably is very capable of doing well. Also most of the SlayerS teams were sort of unknowns before (SlayerS did not recruit many players already in the GSL that is). Eve may potential to do well too.
https://connect.microsoft.com/WindowsServerFeedback/feedback/details/741495/biggest-explorer-annoyance-automatic-sorting-windows-7-server-2008-r2-and-vista#details Allow Disable Auto Arrange in Windows 7+
Klogbert
Profile Joined March 2011
United States139 Posts
July 23 2011 01:27 GMT
#1000
Well-written, hope everything gets figured out. Most of all I hope EVE does succeed, for the sake of your team and the community as a whole, a proverbial "rags to riches" story from a a female could help a lot of people.
Prev 1 48 49 50 51 52 59 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 9h 27m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 270
RuFF_SC2 79
StarCraft: Brood War
sSak 115
NaDa 71
Sexy 62
Icarus 4
Dota 2
monkeys_forever1145
League of Legends
JimRising 561
Counter-Strike
Coldzera 248
Super Smash Bros
AZ_Axe278
Other Games
summit1g12969
tarik_tv7684
Day[9].tv753
shahzam734
ViBE241
C9.Mang0236
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 116
• davetesta44
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 32
• Azhi_Dahaki7
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Day9tv753
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
9h 27m
Serral vs Cure
Solar vs Classic
OSC
12h 27m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 8h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 12h
CSO Cup
1d 14h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 16h
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.