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Whenever you hit post in this thread, think long and hard. Are you showing the proper amount of respect? If that is not the case, do not hit the post button. |
On July 23 2011 02:00 Toplicane wrote:Show nested quote +Love all the privileged males in the thread complaining that a girl for ONCE gets preference over them, it isn't like we're overrepresented in everything else right? Ye, look at the stats how many businesses are started by women, same for men. Don't give me that fucking argument which won't hold any argument. Fucking joke. If 2 candidates are fairly equal, but one applicant is female, he gonna pick the female. Just because he doesn't like law suits. That's the truth in high competitive areas like investment banking, consulting, etc - which are fairly equal to professional sport. If you want to make real life comparisons, get your facts straight.
so could you please state the name of the trainee applicant that was rejected in favor of slayers eve ?
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On July 23 2011 02:03 Anorae wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 01:52 Sandro wrote:
Love all the privileged males in the thread complaining that a girl for ONCE gets preference over them, it isn't like we're overrepresented in everything else right? So, if Eve actually plays against a competitor, should she get some sort of handicap? People are upset because, in the end (for me at least), I want good games. I don't want eye candy with only middling abilities.My beef with SlayerS is that, while I want female progamers, I don't want Eve to just show up and be terrible. If she ends up being successful, then great. However, if she ends up failing miserably, it will only serve to set-back future efforts to have female progamers.
then complain when she plays and her performance is terrible and stop complaining before she even started. unless you are from the future.
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I read the post word for word. And I can proudly say SlayerS is my favorite team by far (ever since ROOT disbanded/switched teams). I'm also proud to have been one of the first few to join the EvE fanclub. She is in a great atmosphere and I see much potential in her and hopefully other females can be inspired.
We all understand that not everyone is supportive, but ignore those haters and grow strong. Don't be disheartened. If you can come out of these dark times stronger, more people will respect you.
gogo
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On July 23 2011 01:21 ManOnBoy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 01:17 Vardant wrote:
because she was given the chance to train in a team like Slayers? Yeah...thought so. She was only given that chance because she is a girl. What about all the other thousands of diamond or higher players that could also train with slayers, and potentially be as good if not better? If anything, you just proved the point.. Shes only on the team because she is a girl. And that is what pisses people off. I'm not saying everyone's reaction was a good or bad thing, I'm just saying that is what happened. And I'm laughing at the fact Slayers_Jessica didn't see it coming. You give a female a free ride in a male dominated community and you are GOING to piss the males off. Duh. And don't think there aren't people assuming the only reason a girl was recruited is because Jessica is herself, a girl.
Jessica has already stated that the reason why Eve was recruited was to bring female competitors in. She's obviously not recruited for having equivalent skills as compared to the current Slayers team. As such, all other "potential" male players who are diamond and up were never in contest for this position.
I'm guess that the original tweet that says that Eve was recruited for her skills and looks was not informative enough.
It has always been an organization's discretion when it comes to recruitment. Unless Eve has committed some underhand act or manipulated her way in, she doesn't deserve the trolling. Mindless bashing is still mindless bashing.
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A lot of people in this thread have lost the right to accuse anyone of overreacting to anything, imo.
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United States7483 Posts
SlayerS is a business, they have every right to accept any member onto their team for whatever criterion they see fit to apply, and nobody has any legitimate reason to complain about it.
If and when they start putting her in major tournaments like the GSTL and she performs extremely underpar, then people can start complaining.
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On July 23 2011 01:21 ManOnBoy wrote:
She was only given that chance because she is a girl.
What about all the other thousands of diamond or higher players that could also train with slayers, and potentially be as good if not better?
If anything, you just proved the point.. Shes only on the team because she is a girl. And that is what pisses people off. I'm not saying everyone's reaction was a good or bad thing, I'm just saying that is what happened. And I'm laughing at the fact Slayers_Jessica didn't see it coming.
You give a female a free ride in a male dominated community and you are GOING to piss the males off. Duh.
And don't think there aren't people assuming the only reason a girl was recruited is because Jessica is herself, a girl.
Consider this a form of eSports affirmative action only for gender, rather than race. The ratio of male to female progamers can't even be called disproportionate. Yes, there might be other players more deserving of the spot based on talent alone, but girls have precious little (if any) exposure at all, and it should be welcomed. If anything she can do far more for Slayers in some ways than any male gamer could, as we've already seen the amount of publicity her signing has attracted. Honestly, this can only be a good thing.
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I wont comment much about the flame wars, only that i think everyone is overreacting and should just take a chill pill.
Now what bothers me is this:
On July 22 2011 05:01 SlayerS_Jessica wrote:
She was not inducted so that she would achieve incredible feats in individual leagues like the GSL.
She is here to make the game more entertaining and to show that unlike in Starcraft 1, female players can easily do well in Starcraft 2.
If you condemn her to be unworthy for not becoming a Master in under a month, how would female players anywhere ever even attempt to make it in Starcraft?
The team SlayerS is a professional team.
I believe she should be called a pro-gamer as long as she is a member of the team, because despite her skill level being that of an amateur, it would not be right for a team member to differentiate each other as "the amateur" or "the professional".
I hope that you will be able to think of her more generously and watch over her quietly so that she may be able to enjoy playing Starcraft 2
lol seriously?
- Plainly states that she picked her up as a team mascot as she isnt expecting any actual results
- Says she was given pro-player "status" just so she doesnt feel bad .
- Tells us to "watch over her quietly" + Show Spoiler +
I see were all this ruckus is coming from...
Also i think this " female players are handicapped" stuff is just trying to justify why she picked up a diamond (gold?) player for whatever reason (probably her friend IRL or something) and to be honest sounds pretty insulting to actual female players and should be insulting to the actual player (Eve).
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The people who think this is an overreaction, and that the "korean culture" argument doesn't have any merit, obviously have no clue how things are like in South Korea. It's mentioned in the OP as well - a huge problem with korean pop culture is that many celebrities commit suicide due to defamation such as the kind thats happenning to eve. You can discuss and ponder the cultural/psychological phenomena in this elsewhere, since its irrelavant here. In the end, these kinds of occurances DO happen and are not uncommon in Korea, hence her phrasing "bloodless murder". Jessica is a korean actress as well so she knows how it goes first hand.
The only real argument should be whether or not eve is allowed to SlayerS based on the fact that she is a girl, and what Jessica refers to vaguely as "potential".
Personally, I see nothing wrong with any team recruiting any one they want to, as long as they are able to make them a top notch player. The only time we should be bashing SlayerS because of eve is if they cling on to her despite showing poor results.
I don't think your starting skill level necessarily says much about your potential. You guys are forgetting that even at a masters level, you are still 1000x worse of a player than top notch korean pros. What's the difference in skill gap between a diamond and a masters? Not all that much, compared to the difference between all (non-pro) skill levels, and pros. Honestly, if you can bring a masters level player to korean pro status, then bringing a diamond level player there is not much of a difference. A player can be masters but be capped there forever, where an up and coming diamond can have grandmaster+ potential.
That is, assuming, that they DID scout potential in her as well as looks. I'm willing to give Jessica the benefit of the doubt here, seeing as she has been so good to the foreign community.
GL SlayerS!
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Gosh, why everyone is making such a fuss about a female joining Slayers team. Well, I personally do not care about whether eve competencies are on par with the gosu gamers in the competitive games, as long as it is for the goodness sake of the team and e-sport, speaking of being the rare example of female joining into the male dominated tourney.
As long as it doesn't really harm e-sport in any ways, I would not against it. Moreover, her presence in the team could boost the morale of the team. A female in a hoard of males, whom will not?
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As a fan I still don't agree with the recruitment, and I'm still extremely disappointed in Slayers management for making that move. This post (OP) only really confirmed what I suspected were the reasons to do it, so it didn't really change my mind at all on the subject.
The team shouldn't be used as a marketing tool to promote "female gaming" or anything else, especially not at the expense of the team and other legitimate progamers (even if they're only clan members and not team members). SlayerS are supposed to be a professional competitive team - and a few days after going 0-2 in GSTL we have to read about the recruitment of somebody who just doesn't matter and can't benefit the team, but can get the team a lot of negative attention for no reason.
The "training" won't only take up her time, it will take up the time of somebody else in SlayerS as well - likely a player who can spend that time practicing and improving himself, or at the very least working with a more talented and more skilled SlayerS recruit. It's still unfair one way or the other to somebody else. Somebody will have to give up his time to practice with her. Somebody will have to give up his hard earned spot so that she would get the benefits (practice time with good players, sitting on the bench, possibly playing in GSTL etc). And none of that will be deserved.
All of this just seems like sticking for some personal goals or principles and putting them over the interests of the team. I can't understand how somebody can't understand why fans are upset over this.
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On July 23 2011 02:12 Alexstrasas wrote:I wont comment much about the flame wars, only that i think everyone is overreacting and should just take a chill pill.Now what bothers me is this: Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 05:01 SlayerS_Jessica wrote:
She was not inducted so that she would achieve incredible feats in individual leagues like the GSL.
She is here to make the game more entertaining and to show that unlike in Starcraft 1, female players can easily do well in Starcraft 2.
If you condemn her to be unworthy for not becoming a Master in under a month, how would female players anywhere ever even attempt to make it in Starcraft?
The team SlayerS is a professional team.
I believe she should be called a pro-gamer as long as she is a member of the team, because despite her skill level being that of an amateur, it would not be right for a team member to differentiate each other as "the amateur" or "the professional".
I hope that you will be able to think of her more generously and watch over her quietly so that she may be able to enjoy playing Starcraft 2
lol seriously?
- Plainly states that she picked her up as a team mascot as she isnt expecting any actual results
- Says she was given pro-player "status" just so she doesnt feel bad .
- Tells us to "watch over her quietly" [spoiler] aka STFU [/spoiler]
I see were all this ruckus is coming from...
Also i think this " female players are handicapped" stuff is just trying to justify why she picked up a diamond (gold?) player for whatever reason (probably her friend IRL or something) and to be honest sounds pretty insulting to actual female players and should be insulting to the actual player (Eve). does not compute
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This all got a little out of hand in my opinion. It was sad, but at the same time unsurprising, that the internet through a big fit over slayers_eve.
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seems like some people have forgotten that there are human beings on the other end of their comments : \ these amazing folk who have made this little game into something we can enjoy 24/7. luckily this is only like 1 out of every 1000 people who hasnt got the decency to show respect to those mentioned.
also, are there people actually suggesting that women shouldnt do things because they arent as good as men at it? do you know how this makes you sound?
valid example: youve been a cop for 20 years, you lose out on being promoted to a woman who has been there 6 months. herp derp? yeah for sure.
invalid example: anyone arguing against this girl playing on this team. this is starcraft where you are a viewer with absolutely nothing REAL to lose by her playing this game on this team. keep in mind that girls are people too, if youve forgotten. (equality and etc) maybe this is a big step for an even larger market of people to enjoy starcraft too. bad thing? not likely.
i wish you all the best SlayerS. i hope you get your justice
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On July 23 2011 02:20 Talin wrote:
As a fan I still don't agree with the recruitment, and I'm still extremely disappointed in Slayers management for making that move. This post (OP) only really confirmed what I suspected were the reasons to do it, so it didn't really change my mind at all on the subject.
The team shouldn't be used as a marketing tool to promote "female gaming" or anything else, especially not at the expense of the team and other legitimate progamers (even if they're only clan members and not team members). SlayerS are supposed to be a professional competitive team - and a few days after going 0-2 in GSTL we have to read about the recruitment of somebody who just doesn't matter and can't benefit the team, but can get the team a lot of negative attention for no reason. did slayers eve play at any GSTL match ? did she cause her team to loose ?
On July 23 2011 02:20 Talin wrote:
The "training" won't only take up her time, it will take up the time of somebody else in SlayerS as well - likely a player who can spend that time practicing and improving himself, or at the very least working with a more talented and more skilled SlayerS recruit. It's still unfair one way or the other to somebody else. Somebody will have to give up his time to practice with her. Somebody will have to give up his hard earned spot so that she would get the benefits (practice time with good players, sitting on the bench, possibly playing in GSTL etc). And none of that will be deserved.
All of this just seems like sticking for some personal goals or principles and putting them over the interests of the team. I can't understand how somebody can't understand why fans are upset over this.
so professional teams should not participate in traning players from the start ? people like july zerg should not exist ?
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So awesome to see Jessica come and post here :D
You go get em girl!
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Why are you guys all acting like you are SlayerS stockholders, fretting about how EvE will destroy the team and destroy eSports.
SlayerS was the one that recruited her. If SlayerS thinks they have the resources to make something out of her, then that's by their descretion. Yes, they will have to give her a coach's time, or a training partner's time. The fundamental concept of investment is that you put some capital in and, in the future, get something that you want out. In this case, having the first female pro-gamer buys a lot of publicity, fandom, and money. This money allows the team to expand, allowing them to hire more coaches, have better facilities, and make better players.
You really think anybody from SlayerS is crying because he has to spend some time helping a trainee out? I hope they are more mature than that. Okay, so they each have to take a small hit in their practice/leisure hours. They are part of a TEAM. If it is something that can help the TEAM, and the TEAM is paying for their SALARY (or stipend, or even expenses), then they are obliged, as professionals, to do so. From the player's perspective, they benefit from the team/sponsors by having a house, teamates to practice with, coaches, BoxeR to guide them, etc. etc. Having to train with people less skilled than they are is just part of the contract that they undertake upon joining the team.
I don't see how anybody can complain that SlayerS is going to be a worse team because of EvE on the basis that she consumes resources. The fact that a business is doing something that consumes resources is not evidence that the business is somehow failing. It is when the resources fail to make returns that you can say it is a bad decision. So hold your horses if you are saying that SlayerS is making a bad move. They are making an investment. Businesses do that. Some suceed, and some fail. A team can't always just pick up established talent. It is often beneficial to grow the talent yourself. In this case, producing the first female pro-gamer would be a huge boon to SlayerS.
As for whether you think she will actually be able to be at the pro-gamer level, I'm not sure any of us can really say, considering none of us are coaches/pro-gamers/have seen her play. Refer to my previous post on this page as to why I don't think her rank being diamond really matters in accessing her potential.
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Thank you for clearing things up, SlayerS_Jessica. I'm (unpleasantly) surprised by the sense of entitlement and ownership so many players have over things they do not control, and I'm (pleasantly) surprised by your willingness to come in here and sweep up what was becoming an unattractive mess.
To those who keep frothing at the mouth: half of you are probably not even in Diamond league. Time to sit back, relax, and just enjoy what those working so hard have selflessly prepared for us.
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I feel the only people who truly have the right to be pissed off with this appointment are female SC2 players with considerably more potential/skill than Eve who haven't been picked ahead of her. Because then there's some true injustice going on.
For everyone else, I don't get why people would be so riled up. I feel most of the hate is just coming from guys who are pissed off because they reckon they're better, and are sad that they don't have a vagina and so can't become a pro-gamer so easily. Except really, would so much fuss have been made if SlayerS recruited some no-name Diamond player who was male? Does the fact she's been subject to so much abuse not sort of prove the point of how one-sided and biased the gaming community is against females? If they're not getting nerd-rushed by wannabe knights-in-shining-armour virgins, they're getting called whores, bitches, what have you.
As has been said a million times in this thread, SlayerS reserve the right to recruit whoever the hell they want, regardless of gender, skill, appearance. Hell, they could recruit Mila Kunis for all I care. If they're paying them money, then they're putting a financial investment into that player. If they can't make that money back for the team through skill, then that's SlayerS's loss, and it'll teach them to recruit crappy players for publicity. If they can apparently make money through hype, gender or appearance, rather than through tournament performances, then that's an issue of the wider community as a whole, and not SlayerS.
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People just give her a chance will you? I mean, Tossgirl isn't the most capable player, but STX still brought her in. Honestly, please just reserve your judgements until something more material has surfaced.
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EPT
