Whenever you hit post in this thread, think long and hard. Are you showing the proper amount of respect? If that is not the case, do not hit the post button.
On July 22 2011 07:33 travis wrote: I love how one guy posts dissent and people automatically jump on him, he's the worst guy in the world.
It was stupid for him to say that "jessica is a joke" but his opinions are completely valid. Posting that he is an idiot or douche or whatever or fighting about it is pretty dumb unless you are actually addressing specific points in his post.
Nobody called him a douche or an idiot. Just a direspectful prick. And he doesn't have arguments or points.
I have no problem with other people argumenting or presenting points on how she might overreact, but coming here to randomly insult players/ coaches teams... seems to be the latest trend on TL lately and that's starting to annoy me.
those monosyllable words are kind of harsh...
On July 22 2011 07:44 Vei wrote: There are girls in GM outside of Korea, and inside I am sure at the very least there are master leaguers at very high skill levels, so your argument you make in your opening paragraphs for why you invited someone who is "gold" (? you don't make this clear) is weak. --
"If you condemn her to be unworthy for not becoming a Master in under a month, " - has she been playing for only a month? is she truly not Master? there are CERTAINLY girls in master in Korea
"She is here to make the game more entertaining" - how?
"how would female players anywhere ever even attempt to make it in Starcraft?" - they have done so already
it is no mean feat for a female to reach Master level while laddering against males.
This is where you lose me... The admission that even though she's not really good enough, she made the team because she's a girl. This is exactly why people give her shit.
Exactly. Jessica recruited a girl to make SlayerS stand out more, to "peacock" as a team through methods other than skillful players -- Korean netizens got mad at this. Many of us in America also find this to be disappointing, *especially* when there are certainly more-deserving master league korean females who you presumably didn't choose based on looks or something. -_-
As a fan of competitive eSports, I feel a little odd about a team like SlayerS picking up a girl on the team just to promote female Starcraft. SlayerS is known for finding gems like MMA and having them be successful players, and I'd rather have them go after someone like that then go for a girl just because she's a girl. Yeah, she clearly has some potential if Jessica chose her over other female players, but the bottom line is if she was the same skill level but male, she wouldn't have been picked up at all. That just sort of irks me, and I'd rather have them pay the money to someone more deserving based on pure skill. Yeah it's good for female exposure in eSports but when you get right down to it I don't really know how much difference it will make, and I don't know why, from the team's perspective, they'd go after her as opposed to a more promising and more skilled player. Hopefully I'm wrong about her and we see her doing well soon, and I don't mean any disrespect with my post. I wish the best to Eve and SlayerS, and all the hate and inconsiderate posts about the whole situation are uncalled for.
On July 22 2011 07:41 mmdmmd wrote: If this case really did end up in court it will be a PR disaster for Slayer. Unless most people in Korea agrees with her handling of this matter.
Uhhh well while a lot of people support her decisions to sue, she's losing community support by lashing out too much. Here she basically lashed out at an entire website because of some minorities and some valid criticisms. She called it disappointing and thought PlayXP would be better than DC and never will post there again.
This of course resulted in more problems really. My best advice for Jessica is to stay away from the internet for some time. It's not helping.
WOW WHAT A DRAMA QUEEN. I did not know how serious the internet was before this incident. Well that being said CAN I JOIN SLAYERS TEAM? I'm in diamond league too ^^ O wait... I probably cant join the team BECAUSE I DONT HAVE A VAGINA (please don't file a lawsuit against me Jessica^^)
PS. she is not actually in diamond league ^^ some1 else played on that to reach diamond. If you wanna see her play you can go check it out by clicking this link Link where she barely beats a silver league player + If you actually check her recent ladder games she loses to silver players with her GOLD LEAGUE account ^^
All and all Slayers_Jessica i don't care if you are filing lawsuits to internet trolls BUT PLEASE at least stop making BULLSHIT excuses about Slayers_Eve joining the team
female not being able to keep up with male is not some sexist remark or some shit, its the current result at the moment. look at golf or any other sport for that matter, its just the way it is and females do have hard time competing with men. its not exist, its just stating the current situation.
same story for starcraft, there were female progamers playing against male counterparts. maybe its just statistics (low # of female players) but they didn't progress too far except january.
and that is exactly what jessica is trying to change.
and to the guys creating new accounts to post, lol. oh man, i feel sorry for you guys XD like the guy above
I personally respect / could care less about Slayers_Eve. If the people in charge of SlayerS (Boxer, Cella, KKY, MMA as captain, ...) think she's a worthy addition to the team I respect that, wether she is Gold, Diamond, #1 Ladder. So yes, sueing people which did the AV photoshops is a good thing. And sueing all those trolls. I support that.
But I have problems with the Haeun_Cielu incident & the opening post of this thread.
Some quotes:
I would like to first say that it's such a pity for SlayerS and Lim Yohwan to have had bad words directed at them just because of certain material that Mr Haeun_Cielu decided to personally post on TL. That is why I wanted to tell you the exact context for the things that Haeun_Cielu decided to post without even saying what happened before and after them.
and
And he must have believed that it was better to spread this on TL instead of trying to do it in Korea. (He says that someone on TL independently posted his claims. I find this hard to believe.)
So according to Kim Ka Yeon Haze.884 (the OP from the Slayers_Jessica overreacting to flamers?) is Haeun_Cielu. He spread this whole stuff (the 16year old who attacked KKY for her English, the "Haeun_Cielu is getting sued") to TL. This is without posting _any_ proof supporting that claim. Just a "find this hard to believe", when the twitter Haeun_Cielu said it was someone else. So should TL ban Haze.884 for basically impersonating someone he isnt? (since the real Haze.884 was active in January and is a player from Wellington)
Or is this basically the same sort of witch hunt which Kim Ka Yeon is criticizing?
On July 22 2011 07:44 Vei wrote: There are girls in GM outside of Korea, and inside I am sure at the very least there are master leaguers at very high skill levels, so your argument you make in your opening paragraphs for why you invited someone who is "gold" (? you don't make this clear) is weak. --
"If you condemn her to be unworthy for not becoming a Master in under a month, " - has she been playing for only a month? is she truly not Master? there are CERTAINLY girls in master in Korea
"She is here to make the game more entertaining" - how?
There are certainly women outside Korea who are masters or above. No doubt about it. I think that's a very different story in Korea. I could be misunderstanding,but I believe the Korean ladder is much smaller (population wise) as compared to NA or EU server. So there very well may be a super small number of women playing. It's also much more difficult to play as a woman in Korea because of the culture (very different expectations of behavior). So I believe Slayers_Jessica wanted to help girls in Korea; and in so doing, inspire girls outside of Korea as well.
I think by "more entertaining" I think Jessica meant high quality games but maybe not GSL champion quality.
expectations of behavior? if anything it's 10x more taboo for a girl to game in america than it is in korea, where it is a TELEVISED SPORT with FANGIRL clubs of tens of thousands of females, so i don't buy that argument at all.
she could help girls by hiring a TALENTED sc2 female player, showing that YES, if you get good and try to be your best as a female you _will_ make it to a pro team and will NOT be selected to just be a pretty face that gets no game time and is just used to "sex sells" your company. that's what eve is -- selected on looks and not skills (assuming she is not master league).
multiple people know several master league girls in this thread, it's not a stretch to assume they exist in korea too.
destiny calls jessica stupid on his stream, then 5 pages about a single line out of context are spammed by his followers agreeing with him... you should realize she also said it's hard for males, mentioned the fact there's zero progamer girls, that she believes eve will be good with training, and she thinks girls can be progamers in sc2(SEXIST? i think not.)
this is translated from another language, from another culture, and jessica herself doesn't play sc2 much afaik, so you should take what she says with a grain of salt and use your brains...
On July 22 2011 07:51 jinorazi wrote: female not being able to keep up with male is not some sexist remark or some shit, its the current result at the moment. look at golf or any other sport for that matter, its just the way it is and females do have hard time competing with men. its not exist, its just stating the current situation.
same story for starcraft, there were female progamers playing against male counterparts. maybe its just statistics (low # of female players) but they didn't progress too far except january.
Golf is a physical sport and males are just naturally built bigger than females which gives them an edge. Starcraft is a computer game which is mostly all brain power. There's no a reason a male should have any natural advantage over a female.
Jesus tapdancing christ didnt you guys already know you can become a pro gamer even if you are in GOLD LEAGUE if you have a vagina? Stop making a big deal out of it jeez
On July 22 2011 07:42 Reborn8u wrote: I hope the next TL attack has SlayerS Eve. So we can watch her smash through male NA master players and silence the haters.
SlayerS_Jessica, I think your english is very good
You have my full support on this matter. I think it's a great idea that a team like SlayerS picks up some female players and gives them serious training, to broaden the spectrum of people that can enjoy a good game of SC2. It's a pity that a few anonimized individuals can disrupt the community like this, we all should learn to ignore them and they'll eventually go away.
On July 22 2011 07:44 Vei wrote: There are girls in GM outside of Korea, and inside I am sure at the very least there are master leaguers at very high skill levels, so your argument you make in your opening paragraphs for why you invited someone who is "gold" (? you don't make this clear) is weak. --
"If you condemn her to be unworthy for not becoming a Master in under a month, " - has she been playing for only a month? is she truly not Master? there are CERTAINLY girls in master in Korea
"She is here to make the game more entertaining" - how?
There are certainly women outside Korea who are masters or above. No doubt about it. I think that's a very different story in Korea. I could be misunderstanding,but I believe the Korean ladder is much smaller (population wise) as compared to NA or EU server. So there very well may be a super small number of women playing. It's also much more difficult to play as a woman in Korea because of the culture (very different expectations of behavior). So I believe Slayers_Jessica wanted to help girls in Korea; and in so doing, inspire girls outside of Korea as well.
I think by "more entertaining" I think Jessica meant high quality games but maybe not GSL champion quality.
expectations of behavior? if anything it's 10x more taboo for a girl to game in america than it is in korea, where it is a TELEVISED SPORT with FANGIRL clubs of tens of thousands of females, so i don't buy that argument at all.
she could help girls by hiring a TALENTED sc2 female player, showing that YES, if you get good and try to be your best as a female you _will_ make it to a pro team and will NOT be selected to just be a pretty face that gets no game time and is just used to "sex sells" your company. that's what eve is -- selected on looks and not skills (assuming she is not master league).
multiple people know several master league girls in this thread, it's not a stretch to assume they exist in korea too.
Well, I mean, just because you're not GM or Masters doesn't mean you're not an excellent player. Ladder has been locked for like 3 weeks. Here's what probably happened: she made a new account, Slayers_EVE and got placed into gold, and she is regularly playing Master League Players, and would be immediately promoted if it weren't for the ladder lock.
This seems pretty obvious to me, you guys. The Ladder has been locked for some time now. Lay off the hate a little will you? give her a chance
On July 22 2011 07:41 CookiesAndCakeIsGood wrote: Hmmm. I understand the whole motion that some consequences should be taken if a threat is made against anyone over the internet because it became a joke over the years. If a serious threat is present then it should be taken seriously. However; I cannot accept the whole subtext of sexism that is in this post.
but in reality, it is no mean feat for a female to reach Master level while laddering against males.
That is completely sexist. How can gender play in a game of Starcraft 2? Skill does not factor in gender. The whole notion that gender plays any role in a player's skill to play a certain game is ridiculous. I cannot support something somewhat serious when it is turned into a whole different discusion. I wholeheartedly hope that everything works out for the best for you, Eve and the whole SlayerS team, but I sincerely hope you rethink the whole situation here and how you are viewing it.
Good Luck.
On July 22 2011 07:44 Vei wrote: There are girls in GM outside of Korea, and inside I am sure at the very least there are master leaguers at very high skill levels, so your argument you make in your opening paragraphs for why you invited someone who is "gold" (? you don't make this clear) is weak. --
"If you condemn her to be unworthy for not becoming a Master in under a month, " - has she been playing for only a month? is she truly not Master? there are CERTAINLY girls in master in Korea
"She is here to make the game more entertaining" - how?
"how would female players anywhere ever even attempt to make it in Starcraft?" - they have done so already
it is no mean feat for a female to reach Master level while laddering against males.
This is where you lose me... The admission that even though she's not really good enough, she made the team because she's a girl. This is exactly why people give her shit.
Exactly. Jessica recruited a girl to make SlayerS stand out more, to "peacock" as a team through methods other than skillful players -- Korean netizens got mad at this. Many of us in America also find this to be disappointing, *especially* when there are certainly more-deserving master league korean females who you presumably didn't choose based on looks or something. -_-
final edit -- and you are insulting females as a gender and your own player by making it seem they are inherently worse than males at SC2. they aren't, they are just less interested in it (in GENERAL) so they either never play it or don't play it much. however, the small minority that DO try to get good do indeed get very good.
It isn't sexist. It isn't about innate ability, it is about cultural and social barriers. That is what they are working against. Recruiting Eve is also not about "peacocking" or some nonsense. It is about developing SC2 and esports and promoting females in these arenas. SlayerS didn't recruit Eve to help SlayerS, they recruited her to help Eve and to help females in esports.
expectations of behavior? if anything it's 10x more taboo for a girl to game in america than it is in korea, where it is a TELEVISED SPORT with FANGIRL clubs of tens of thousands of females, so i don't buy that argument at all.
she could help girls by hiring a TALENTED sc2 female player, showing that YES, if you get good and try to be your best as a female you _will_ make it to a pro team and will NOT be selected to just be a pretty face that gets no game time and is just used to "sex sells" your company. that's what eve is -- selected on looks and not skills (assuming she is not master league).
multiple people know several master league girls in this thread, it's not a stretch to assume they exist in korea too.
I would very much disagree with your first assertion. I would argue it's the opposite. 10x less taboo because women have much less social pressure in what they do. Just because it's on television doesn't mean that girls are an accepted group of players in Korea. Yes, there are groupies for everything popular in Korea; but that fangirl doesn't equate to player. I don't know how else to make my argument because it comes from a general understanding of Korean culture. I think we'll just agree to disagree because without me going into pages and pages of detail about life as a female in Korea (via studies, surveys, annecdotes, and papers), it'd be impossible to show the real difference. But I respect that without showing you that difference, it'd be quite a stretch for you to believe me just on my word alone.
As to the second point, perhaps she could have chosen a better player. She didn't. Was it a mistake? Perhaps but I haven't seen one game with Eve yet so I'm going to withhold judgement till then. If she's terrible then believe me, I'll join you in criticizing her play because I respect her as a professional gamer and if she doesnt' live up to those expectations then I will voice my opposition.
WOW WHAT A DRAMA QUEEN. I did not know how serious the internet was before this incident. Well that being said CAN I JOIN SLAYERS TEAM? I'm in diamond league too ^^ O wait... I probably cant join the team BECAUSE I DONT HAVE A VAGINA (please don't file a lawsuit against me Jessica^^)
PS. she is not actually in diamond league ^^ some1 else played on that to reach diamond. If you wanna see her play you can go check it out by clicking this link Link where she barely beats a silver league player + If you actually check her recent ladder games she loses to silver players with her GOLD LEAGUE account ^^
All and all Slayers_Jessica i don't care if you are filing lawsuits to internet trolls BUT PLEASE at least stop making BULLSHIT excuses about Slayers_Eve joining the team
On July 22 2011 07:51 Kush6974 wrote: WOW WHAT A DRAMA QUEEN. I did not know how serious the internet was before this incident. Well that being said CAN I JOIN SLAYERS TEAM? I'm in diamond league too ^^ O wait... I probably cant join the team BECAUSE I DONT HAVE A VAGINA (please don't file a lawsuit against me Jessica^^)
PS. she is not actually in diamond league ^^ some1 else played on that to reach diamond. If you wanna see her play you can go check it out by clicking this link Link where she barely beats a silver league player + If you actually check her recent ladder games she loses to silver players with her GOLD LEAGUE account ^^
All and all Slayers_Jessica i don't care if you are filing lawsuits to internet trolls BUT PLEASE at least stop making BULLSHIT excuses about Slayers_Eve joining the team
Your first post might be the worst I've seen of anyone yet. Anyway I'll not bother to read in any of these threads anymore. The SC2 community has turned absolutely shit thanks to pathetic (horrifically misogynistic) losers like yourself.
EPT
