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On July 16 2011 07:58 PeterHuynh wrote:
how many players were better than forgg at bw when he switched or currently today?
It's hard to say exactly. You could just look up his kespa rank at time of retirement, but this is not the most accurate measure of skill. The thing is, BW players can be split into s, a, b, etc. the same as sc2 (not coincidentally). However, BW, having been around so much longer, had a long time to develop and allow differentiation. The code B players in sc2 are often very strong and can easily take games off gsl champions. This really isn't the case in BW. The difference between the B team and S class starleague winners is huge. Along these lines, forgg's performance in BW was around the level of say clide. He was a consistent player that could take games off anyone and would be favored against many. Unlike clide, forgg won his one starleague with a phenomenal run through jaedong and flash. The general opinion was that forgg had a terrific sense of timing and was able to prepare for specific opponents very well, but he did not have the raw skill of the S class players.
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For anyone wondering about calling Nada an a-teamer, here are the relevant stats:
Nada TLDP
The merit of the last games depend on the playoff situation, but anyway he won his last three. But note that he didnt get to play in the playoffs against MBC and SKT.
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Papua New Guinea1054 Posts
fOrGG's switch isn't exactly news. Ret(he was in Korea at that time) said a few months ago he switched on State Of The Game. About wether it is Raptor or not - no idea.
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On July 16 2011 08:10 phyren wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 07:58 PeterHuynh wrote:
how many players were better than forgg at bw when he switched or currently today? It's hard to say exactly. You could just look up his kespa rank at time of retirement, but this is not the most accurate measure of skill. The thing is, BW players can be split into s, a, b, etc. the same as sc2 (not coincidentally). However, BW, having been around so much longer, had a long time to develop and allow differentiation. The code B players in sc2 are often very strong and can easily take games off gsl champions. This really isn't the case in BW. The difference between the B team and S class starleague winners is huge. Along these lines, forgg's performance in BW was around the level of say clide. He was a consistent player that could take games off anyone and would be favored against many. Unlike clide, forgg won his one starleague with a phenomenal run through jaedong and flash. The general opinion was that forgg had a terrific sense of timing and was able to prepare for specific opponents very well, but he did not have the raw skill of the S class players.
Edit: oh, I misunderstood.
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Lol. He's like. Eh I'm not taking this seriously... I'll just be KR GM.
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Bottom line is if forgg is actually gonna switch to pro sc2, he'll be the most raw skilled bw player to transition over since immvp. It's exciting to see a teamers transition.
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I can just imagine this guy. GM = ezpz.
Hard to believe he originally got into gold... maybe he just went for bw strats that weren't relevant anymore.
But if he starts to play, I will be very interested. Should be a solid player.
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Wow, from the little I know of him if this is actually him then he will crush the gsl so hard.
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well the fact that he's playing terran should make his rise to the top a lot easier
User was warned for this post
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On July 16 2011 08:28 blabber wrote:
well the fact that he's playing terran should make his rise to the top a lot easier
Seriously, I thought we were passed this kind of BS?
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To help settle the matter of "who was the most skilled bw player to switch to SC2" here's the Kespa ranking of several notable players at the time of their last played bw match.
forgg - 16
MVP - 45
Puma - 60
Sangho - 67
July - 73
Nada - 75
Boxer - 106
It must be said that Kespa is a flawed ranking because of the disproportionate weight it puts on individual league success and gives points for games played up to a year ago, which is an eternity in progaming. At the end of his career forgg was in no way the 16th best brood war player. Nonetheless since there is no monthly ELO list Kespa ranking is the best indicator available for people who don't actively follow brood war.
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At the present time, and throughout the past year (at least, probably even 2 years), ForGG would be considered the highest skill level BW player out of anyone who has switched to SC2 so far, just to clarify for people who don't know, or are downplaying how good he actually was at BW.
Players like Nada and July were definitely better during their prime, but when considering the past couple years of BW, ForGG was most definitely the best of any player to switch so far.
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On July 16 2011 08:44 red4ce wrote:
To help settle the matter of "who was the most skilled bw player to switch to SC2" here's the Kespa ranking of several notable players at the time of their last played bw match.
forgg - 16
MVP - 45
Puma - 60
Sangho - 67
July - 73
Nada - 75
Boxer - 106
It must be said that Kespa is a flawed ranking because of the disproportionate weight it puts on individual league success and gives points for games played up to a year ago, which is an eternity in progaming. At the end of his career forgg was in no way the 16th best brood war player. Nonetheless since there is no monthly ELO list Kespa ranking is the best indicator available.
Compared to the others that switched from BW, he is definitely the most skilled player to switch. Though his performance at the end weren't that good. ><"
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Well, 1500 games is a lot. I've been playing since release and I have around 1000 games, teams included. He probably didn't start at release did he
But then he is used to awesome Korean practice schedules
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On July 16 2011 08:52 K3Nyy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 08:44 red4ce wrote:
To help settle the matter of "who was the most skilled bw player to switch to SC2" here's the Kespa ranking of several notable players at the time of their last played bw match.
forgg - 16
MVP - 45
Puma - 60
Sangho - 67
July - 73
Nada - 75
Boxer - 106
It must be said that Kespa is a flawed ranking because of the disproportionate weight it puts on individual league success and gives points for games played up to a year ago, which is an eternity in progaming. At the end of his career forgg was in no way the 16th best brood war player. Nonetheless since there is no monthly ELO list Kespa ranking is the best indicator available.
Compared to the others that switched from BW, he is definitely the most skilled player to switch. Though his performance at the end weren't that good. ><"
That's how it always is and always will be, BW players at their prime winning a lot will not switch because the money is better if you're winning.
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On July 16 2011 08:10 phyren wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 07:58 PeterHuynh wrote:
how many players were better than forgg at bw when he switched or currently today? It's hard to say exactly. You could just look up his kespa rank at time of retirement, but this is not the most accurate measure of skill. The thing is, BW players can be split into s, a, b, etc. the same as sc2 (not coincidentally). However, BW, having been around so much longer, had a long time to develop and allow differentiation. The code B players in sc2 are often very strong and can easily take games off gsl champions. This really isn't the case in BW. The difference between the B team and S class starleague winners is huge. Along these lines, forgg's performance in BW was around the level of say clide. He was a consistent player that could take games off anyone and would be favored against many. Unlike clide, forgg won his one starleague with a phenomenal run through jaedong and flash. The general opinion was that forgg had a terrific sense of timing and was able to prepare for specific opponents very well, but he did not have the raw skill of the S class players.
To my own understanding:
The only S-class players in the past two years are TBLS: Flash, Jaedong, Bisu and Stork.
There are some almost S-class players during that time including Fantasy, Kal, Calm, and possibly Luxury, Jangbi, Sea and Leta.
S-class in BW is literally the very top. The BW equivalent of the "Code S" of SC2 would be S-Class, A-Class and even B-Class (e.g. Tester, Fruitdealer, and other anomalies). In BW, Forgg would have been considered A-Class when not in a slump. MVP, MC, PuMa would be considered low B-Class, and SangHo would be considered high B-Class.
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On July 16 2011 08:43 gillon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 08:28 blabber wrote:
well the fact that he's playing terran should make his rise to the top a lot easier Seriously, I thought we were passed this kind of BS?
forGG can play random can be a top level SC2 player, people are underestimating how good BW A-teamers are.
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Wait, Puma is the same Puma from BW? If I remember right, he was the one that knocked out Nal_rA on his last SL attempt before military service right? Hope he loses every match now xD
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On July 16 2011 09:55 Toadily wrote:
Wait, Puma is the same Puma from BW? If I remember right, he was the one that knocked out Nal_rA on his last SL attempt before military service right? Hope he loses every match now xD
It's the same Puma that helped Flash, Stork, and some of the other pros train
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I just know his TvZ was boss in BW
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EPT
