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On July 17 2011 03:55 Thrombozyt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2011 03:33 Dental Floss wrote:On July 17 2011 01:30 romanov wrote:
@Incontrol
I think people are most offended because you respect TB (Someone who do's a lot for the community besides ofcourse making a living out of SC/and other games) less then 'A blond bimbo' (Lack of interest in the community and bad overall gameknowledge). This just looks like a small personal stab at TB. A blond bimbo? Jesus Christ; the misogyny in this thread is ridiculous. I think I figured out why people are mad at Incontrol; he said that he respected a woman. This is clearly unacceptable to the community. While 'A blond bimbo' is an unfair exaggeration of he complete lack of SC knowledge, I feel it describes the label well under which many people filed her away. Lindsay has her qualities, no doubt, but SC2 (and most likely computer games in in general) are apparently not among those. I also feel that many SC2 fans are nerds and the 'beauty queen' to nerd relationship is rarely harmonic. Some users have bias against pretty girls that get paid for theirs looks despite their lack of needed knowledge.
Well said. The bimbo comment was definitely way over the line.... but your explanation likely sums it all up nicely.
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On July 17 2011 03:33 Dental Floss wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2011 01:30 romanov wrote:
@Incontrol
I think people are most offended because you respect TB (Someone who do's a lot for the community besides ofcourse making a living out of SC/and other games) less then 'A blond bimbo' (Lack of interest in the community and bad overall gameknowledge). This just looks like a small personal stab at TB. A blond bimbo? Jesus Christ; the misogyny in this thread is ridiculous. I think I figured out why people are mad at Incontrol; he said that he respected a woman. This is clearly unacceptable to the community.
Ahh Dental Floss, your responses are what makes this thread so entertaining to read. You always desperately try to find some irrelevant topic, and argue on the easy side to win just so you can be right about your own point of view. I can see the next one already...
Random TL Member 1: @Random TL Member 2, People like you are the cancer of TL.
Dental Floss: @ Random TL Member 1, Oh wow the people in this thread are so ridiculous. You guys think that cancer is just something you can easily ignore like an internet troll? Yeah... cancer isn't a big deal at all...
So just in case you still aren't seeing it... he said "a blond bimbo" which has nothing to do with her being female. A bimbo is simply someone who is inept... not someone who is female. So your argument is that he is a misogynist simply because he called a girl inept at starcraft 2 (when it's TRUE)? Hahahaha.
All you did was essentially say "It is ridiculous that people don't treat women with respect" which is so obviously "right" except for the fact that no one (or at least nearly no one as I haven't seen it) has been disrespectful to women. At the same time you get to be proud of yourself for being "right" and for making a reasonable argument.
While he obviously could have said it in a more polite way, I'm sure anyone would agree that it is true that Lindsey doesn't know much about starcraft 2. I'm not even going to try to comprehend how this entire thread is misogynistic.
BTW this has nothing to do with iNc or TB.
Edit: Oh... and it also has nothing to do with Lindsey either. I'm fine with her doing interviews if it matters.
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On July 17 2011 04:06 Chicane wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2011 03:33 Dental Floss wrote:On July 17 2011 01:30 romanov wrote:
@Incontrol
I think people are most offended because you respect TB (Someone who do's a lot for the community besides ofcourse making a living out of SC/and other games) less then 'A blond bimbo' (Lack of interest in the community and bad overall gameknowledge). This just looks like a small personal stab at TB. A blond bimbo? Jesus Christ; the misogyny in this thread is ridiculous. I think I figured out why people are mad at Incontrol; he said that he respected a woman. This is clearly unacceptable to the community. Ahh Dental Floss, your responses are what makes this thread so entertaining to read. You always desperately try to find some irrelevant topic, and argue on the easy side to win just so you can be right about your own point of view. I can see the next one already... Random TL Member 1: @Random TL Member 2, People like you are the cancer of TL. Dental Floss: @ Random TL Member 1, Oh wow the people in this thread are so ridiculous. You guys think that cancer is just something you can easily ignore like an internet troll? Yeah... cancer isn't a big deal at all... So just in case you still aren't seeing it... he said "a blond bimbo" which has nothing to do with her being female. A bimbo is simply someone who is inept... not someone who is female. So your argument is that he is a misogynist simply because he called a girl inept at starcraft 2 (when it's TRUE)? Hahahaha. All you did was essentially say "It is ridiculous that people don't treat women with respect" which is so obviously "right" except for the fact that no one (or at least nearly no one as I haven't seen it) has been disrespectful to women. At the same time you get to be proud of yourself for being "right" and for making a reasonable argument. While he obviously could have said it in a more polite way, I'm sure anyone would agree that it is true that Lindsey doesn't know much about starcraft 2. I'm not even going to try to comprehend how this entire thread is misogynistic. BTW this has nothing to do with iNc or TB. Edit: Oh... and it also has nothing to do with Lindsey either. I'm fine with her doing interviews if it matters.
10/10
Perfect!
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Oh come on, get over the commentator girl (lindsay?) thing. She was filling time with interviewing irrelevant people, the interviews would have been pointless no matter did them. I mean, does anyone honestly care how random NASL attendee X feels about game balance or whatever?
Even when it comes to interviewing players after a game, hardly anything worthwhile ever gets said, and that's true for pretty much any sport. It doesn't take any special skills to ask someone how he feels after a game, how he feels about his next opponent, what he's going to do with the prizemoney or what he's going to do in the future. Professional sporters just aren't very interesting, due to the fact that sport X/game X is their life. I/we played well is about all you're going to get out of them. Exception being the french dude with his motorcycle helmet, but that would have been entertaining no matter who interviewed him.
The best post-game interviewer so far is probably 2GD (dreamhack invitational), and he's basicly a male version of the NASL girls. Not an abundance of game knowledge, good looking, and entertaining.
On July 17 2011 00:58 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2011 00:02 Carnagath wrote:
Both TB and Incontrol annoy me, honestly.
Boo-bloody-hoo, poor TB, so unfairly trashed by iNc, when he has said so much about both iNc and Idra in the recent past, even going so far as to create whole Reddit threads about what terrible shitty casters they both are. Well, what did you expect, of course iNc is going to take jabs at him every chance he gets. TB, for such a recent addition to the SC community, certainly wasted no time in attempting to enthrone himself as an almighty drama king and flame veterans all over. He really should stfu and produce more content, he is in no position yet to speak against anyone.
As for iNc, he is a clever guy, he explores every opportunity that he can in order to live off E-Sports, and that's fine, that's the dream, but Sporrer (which was obviously suggested by him, directly or indirectly, even though he doesn't admit it, but he's not fooling anyone) was the final straw, I'm tired of seeing his girlfriend, his gilfriend's friends and his general social circle being pushed into anything he dabbles in. There are many talented, enthusiastic, knowledgeable people in the scene that never get a chance to show their stuff because every position of wide broadcast has been capped by the iNc brigade. Enough is enough. I'm glad to see him practicing full time again, because that means less of his fellowship on air. He is so sly and mercilessly efficient with his connections that it ends up, in my opinion, hurting the scene. At least Anna cares enough to at least attempt to educate herself on the subject, which is commendable, but still sigh-worthy. Sporrer though? Just no. Go away. I didn't have anything to do with hiring sporrer or any of the other girls... save for Anna. Call me biased that we hired a professional interview coach and a girl who has been involved/around SC/SC2 since before 99% of you ever came to this community. She is only going to get more involved btw so keep the "inc hired her" shit away. She is doing this on her own merit.
Emphasis mine, but that's a rather special definition of on your own merit.
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All I'm saying is that calling a successful and well-educated woman "a blonde bimbo" because she is trying to learn about e-sports is misogynistic. She has a BS which makes her more educated than 90%+ of this very forum, myself included.
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I'm honestly starting to believe people like IdrA and iNcontroL purposely say stuff like this just to troll the community.
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I wonder,
Why do some many people think NASL Grand Finals was such a big succes? Watching the stream from home was horrific. I think that if the NASL wants to try to compete with MLG or Dreamhack or GSL or anyother online or offline tournament they REALLY need to get someone compitant to observer, cast, and produce the stream.
I was blown away by NASL flying Tastosis in, and then having the obviously sub-par Gretorp/iNcontroL duo cast the Final Match?!? Seems like NASL just wasted a ton of Tastosis's time and effort to cast a few games.
The other issue is the production quality. Seriously? You pay over 50k in prize money, but can't afford a legit Pro-Caster machine? Seriously? You have to let TheGunRun (an audience member) try to fix the shit show that was the audio and streaming room... Just wow.
All I can say is : I told you so. I called this from the beginning, even with that first promo showmatch, the production levels were no better than the Grand Finals, doesn't that say something about work ethic and professionalism? I think it does. It tells me that the NASL brand doesn't give two shits about my experience as long as I paid them.
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8751 Posts
On July 17 2011 04:19 Dental Floss wrote:
All I'm saying is that calling a successful and well-educated woman "a blonde bimbo" because she is trying to learn about e-sports is misogynistic. She has a BS which makes her more educated than 90%+ of this very forum, myself included.
60% is closer. 90% is definitely incorrect.
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I would be surprised if 60% of the current TL demographic is old enough to have had an opportunity to get a 4-year degree.
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Canada11519 Posts
There is a decent number of us early to mid-20's people on TL that got into SC via BW.
Most of those polls place 22-23 as being the most numerous and sliding off on either side. Mind you they're not scientific, but it's a pretty good indicator.
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This is true, there are a lot of us here who got into TL during Brood War and just don't like to post much - because of some other posters.
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On July 17 2011 04:06 Chicane wrote:
Ahh Dental Floss, your responses are what makes this thread so entertaining to read. You always desperately try to find some irrelevant topic, and argue on the easy side to win just so you can be right about your own point of view. I can see the next one already...
Yep, here it is. Education, age and intelligence. 
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On July 17 2011 04:19 Dental Floss wrote:
All I'm saying is that calling a successful and well-educated woman "a blonde bimbo" because she is trying to learn about e-sports is misogynistic. She has a BS which makes her more educated than 90%+ of this very forum, myself included.
Actually he was calling he 'a blonde bimbo' because she was NOT trying to learn about e-sports prior to her interviews. Also only a minority is questioning her general education and probably not seriously.
On a side not: Having visited a US-university, I know that a BS without knowledge of her major/minor is not the greatest certificate of general education.
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On July 17 2011 04:27 Chronald wrote:
I wonder,
Why do some many people think NASL Grand Finals was such a big succes? Watching the stream from home was horrific. I think that if the NASL wants to try to compete with MLG or Dreamhack or GSL or anyother online or offline tournament they REALLY need to get someone compitant to observer, cast, and produce the stream.
people are quick to forgive
Day 1 was bad
Day 2 improved but still had some mistakes
Day 3 improved over Day 2 but also had some mistakes
MLG Dallas 2011 was horrific. MLG Columbus 2011 was fantastic.
people primarily want to see good high quality SC2 matches first and foremost. as long as the tournament organizer can make the focus on SC2 matches and not on themselves, the viewers will probably be happy.
matches like Darkforce vs Alive, Sen vs MC, and MC vs Puma softened people's bad impressions of NASL's 3 day finals tournament and turned the focus to SC2 and away from NASL's mistakes.
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On July 17 2011 04:19 Dental Floss wrote:
All I'm saying is that calling a successful and well-educated woman "a blonde bimbo" because she is trying to learn about e-sports is misogynistic. She has a BS which makes her more educated than 90%+ of this very forum, myself included.
What does having an education and a degree to do with starcraft knowledge?
Next time lets fly a famous rocket sciencetist in to interview players, it would be so much better then obviously.
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On July 17 2011 05:04 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2011 04:19 Dental Floss wrote:
All I'm saying is that calling a successful and well-educated woman "a blonde bimbo" because she is trying to learn about e-sports is misogynistic. She has a BS which makes her more educated than 90%+ of this very forum, myself included. What does having an education and a degree to do with starcraft knowledge? Next time lets fly a famous rocket sciencetist in to interview players, it would be so much better then obviously.
So if you had your way only people who are already experts would be allowed to participate in SC2? You know for a thread obsessed with defending TB's right to enter the community without being an expert this seems contradictory.
I think TB and Lindsay should be allowed to contribute even if they don't have grandmaster level knowledge of the game.
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On July 17 2011 05:06 Dental Floss wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2011 05:04 Assirra wrote:On July 17 2011 04:19 Dental Floss wrote:
All I'm saying is that calling a successful and well-educated woman "a blonde bimbo" because she is trying to learn about e-sports is misogynistic. She has a BS which makes her more educated than 90%+ of this very forum, myself included. What does having an education and a degree to do with starcraft knowledge? Next time lets fly a famous rocket sciencetist in to interview players, it would be so much better then obviously. So if you had your way only people who are already experts would be allowed to participate in SC2? You know for a thread obsessed with defending TB's right to enter the community without being an expert this seems contradictory. I think TB and Lindsay should be allowed to contribute even if they don't have grandmaster level knowledge of the game.
There is a difference between 'participating in SC2' and 'participating in NASL'. When i watch NASL i expect somebody with at least a descent amount of game knowledge
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On July 17 2011 05:06 Dental Floss wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2011 05:04 Assirra wrote:On July 17 2011 04:19 Dental Floss wrote:
All I'm saying is that calling a successful and well-educated woman "a blonde bimbo" because she is trying to learn about e-sports is misogynistic. She has a BS which makes her more educated than 90%+ of this very forum, myself included. What does having an education and a degree to do with starcraft knowledge? Next time lets fly a famous rocket sciencetist in to interview players, it would be so much better then obviously. So if you had your way only people who are already experts would be allowed to participate in SC2? You know for a thread obsessed with defending TB's right to enter the community without being an expert this seems contradictory. I think TB and Lindsay should be allowed to contribute even if they don't have grandmaster level knowledge of the game.
Where did i said that? you are just putting words in my mouth.
You kept talking about her education and degree when ppl said her starcraft knowledge was not good (the blonde bimbo) thing.
Do you think 90% of the nerds who watch it will care what kind of education she had if her starcraft knowledge sucks? no they wont because that is not why they are watching.
Don't get me wrong, its great she wants to learn about it but things like this should have been done BEFORE not after.
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On July 17 2011 05:10 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2011 05:06 Dental Floss wrote:On July 17 2011 05:04 Assirra wrote:On July 17 2011 04:19 Dental Floss wrote:
All I'm saying is that calling a successful and well-educated woman "a blonde bimbo" because she is trying to learn about e-sports is misogynistic. She has a BS which makes her more educated than 90%+ of this very forum, myself included. What does having an education and a degree to do with starcraft knowledge? Next time lets fly a famous rocket sciencetist in to interview players, it would be so much better then obviously. So if you had your way only people who are already experts would be allowed to participate in SC2? You know for a thread obsessed with defending TB's right to enter the community without being an expert this seems contradictory. I think TB and Lindsay should be allowed to contribute even if they don't have grandmaster level knowledge of the game. Where did i said that? you are just putting words in my mouth. You kept talking about her education and degree when ppl said her starcraft knowledge was not good (the blonde bimbo) thing. Do you think 90% of the nerds who watch it will care what kind of education she had if her starcraft knowledge sucks? no they wont because that is not why they are watching. Don't get me wrong, its great she wants to learn about it but things like this should have been done BEFORE not after.
Do you or do you not think its okay to call someone "a dumb bimbo" because they're ignorant about a video game?
I would say that it is not okay.
I just cannot wrap my head around how people could be so mad at Incontrol for this interview while simultaneously being so callous towards others.
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I honestly don't understand how you can be defending Incontrol, if you understood what we're arguing here.
i'll even preface this by saying that I think Incontrol is a better cast, player, , starcraft person overall. I've probably watched ten times as many VODs of incontrol casting than I have of TB casting. I sometimes watch Incontrol's stream despite the fact that I play zerg, and I stopped listening to heavy metal.
That being said, what Incontrol said in that interview is just wrong. Like actually wrong. like, in binary, that would be a 0.
He sure is allowed to have an opinion of TB, and if he just said that he disliked TB, that would've been fine (though unprofessional in an interview, so it might've garnered some attention though not this much).
But, he can't say something that's completely off-base, furthermore he hasn't really apologized for it, well an apology is a bit too far, but he's never admitted that what he said about TB in that Interview is incorrect.
It's like when Kanye West said George Bush doesn't care about black people. A lot of other people had already spoke about their disdain for Bush's presidency. but you can't just say something like that.
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EPT
