On July 09 2011 23:09 Butigroove wrote: When did teamliquid become a huge bitchfest?
I remember when we DIDN'T EVEN HAVE STREAMS, JUST LIVE REPORTS. and people are raging about the sound quality of a fucking epic live event that obviously did their best to accommodate the tens of thousands of viewers?
At one point I would brag about the superiority of the Starcraft community to my friends. We used to be a bastion of excellence... now all I see is the immaturity and false sense of entitlement of spoiled children who grew up with silver spoons under their metaphorical tongues.
I'm sorry if this doesn't belong in this thread, but honestly the thing that brought down the level of this event the most for me, were the hordes of kiddies complaining about minor annoyances. It isn't just this event either. MLG, TSL, and GSL are all plagued in one way or another by this bullshit.
I really really hate this "argument". "Because 2000 years ago there were no computers and people were starving you should really be happy about anything today!"... Critism is legit. And in this thread there is very very constructive and reasonable critics like from jibba and kmh. And if you advertise the shit out of a league and hype those finals through the roof and want attract more viewers the expectations are naturally growing. They are trying to deliver a product that obbviously was 1-2 steppes above their capability. If they would have said beforehand that they are unsure if they can set up something big like this and we all should see this as a test run for their first big event there would be way less bitching but then they would have had a problem to charge money for this.
I love everything they did ! awesome event, and awesome casters all around. for sure some small issues, but still got to watch some awesome starcraft, and i could eat my dinner and tug in the wife without missing a beat, didnt have to sit tight for 5 hours strait while they flash names games and stuff into my head, awesome event. Had me a bit conserned as to the 2 hours i missed at start that cut off games like boxer mc, and so on, but my hd pass was worth it, and i can just watch later on anyways.
On July 09 2011 23:09 Butigroove wrote: When did teamliquid become a huge bitchfest?
I remember when we DIDN'T EVEN HAVE STREAMS, JUST LIVE REPORTS. and people are raging about the sound quality of a fucking epic live event that obviously did their best to accommodate the tens of thousands of viewers?
At one point I would brag about the superiority of the Starcraft community to my friends. We used to be a bastion of excellence... now all I see is the immaturity and false sense of entitlement of spoiled children who grew up with silver spoons under their metaphorical tongues.
I'm sorry if this doesn't belong in this thread, but honestly the thing that brought down the level of this event the most for me, were the hordes of kiddies complaining about minor annoyances. It isn't just this event either. MLG, TSL, and GSL are all plagued in one way or another by this bullshit.
I really really hate this "argument". "Because 2000 years ago there were no computers and people were starving you should really be happy about anything today!"... Critism is legit. And in this thread there is very very constructive and reasonable critics like from jibba and kmh. And if you advertise the shit out of a league and hype those finals through the roof and want attract more viewers the expectations are naturally growing. They are trying to deliver a product that obbviously was 1-2 steppes above their capability. If they would have said beforehand that they are unsure if they can set up something big like this and we all should see this as a test run for their first big event there would be way less bitching but then they would have had a problem to charge money for this.
I don't know why I was thinking about this as I slept...
Lower the Lights. Really.
Makes it more of a performance... lights on stage is okay. Think of SPL... of MLG... or hell, of any theatrical performance. You have to lower the lights.
Looked like you guys were playing in a fuckin' hospital. It's overly sterile and destroys the ambiance I think... makes it look like you are at work.
First of all I think that NASL started as a league that wanted to make everything better than all the other leagues, for instance by having those divisions so that consistent play got rewarded instead of preparing snipe builds to make it out of the group stage and then prepare for a BoX.
NASL to me seemed like a huge experiment in the name of esports - with a lot of dedication and love for SC2 and I appreciate that a lot.
That sad thing is just that with so much money on the line and those huge names playing, people just expected more, especially after MLG, DH and HSC3 which were all great events.
Most things that need improvement have already been mentioned. I would like to talk a bit about the format.
A lot of people critisized that the goal to reward consistent play got screwed by that single elimination format and I agree with those people. But I would like to start a bit earlier and talk about the play-offs. So if I am not mistaken, the first ranked player of each division was automatically qualified for the Grand Finals. That is totally alright. But to me it seems that the play off format was again another chance for those who didnt perform well enough in the league to still get to the finals.
Take HasuObs for instance. I really like this guy a lot and I always cheer for him and I was happy for him to make it to Ontario. But if you look at his path to the finals, you will notice that he fnished 5th in his division. The one player he won against to get a seed in the finals was ACE, who played very well and consistent throughout the league just to get eliminated in a Bo3 against HasuObs. And guess what: ACE finished 3rd in Hasu's group. He was more consistent over those 9 weeks and probably the overall better player. But HasuObs advanced. Is that fair? Does it reward consistence? I don't think it does. Naniwa lost to Darkforce and didn't make it to the finals, basically a 3rd placed player lost against a 5th placed player in a Bo3. And there are some more examples of this. I mean it is okay, but why do you actually let those players play for 9 weeks to see who is best in their division and then let everybody from rank 2 to rank 6 get a shot at the finals?
The single elimination in the finals kills the intention to figure out the overall best - agreed, but the play offs already played their part in this too.
Format - Some of the arguments made on this subject here are plain ridiculous. Players flew in from Europe and Korea, after besting dozens of other pros, just to be knocked out in the first round? Inconvenient, if nothing else. Some are arguing they played their best and it wasn't good enough. That is probably true. "3 rounds is enough to determine which player is better". I'm not denying that. But that's not what eSports is about. It really isn't. "People are just complaining because their favourite player lost". They should be complaining. Their favourite player flies thousands of kilometers to the grand finals of this huge tournament, just to be knocked out instantly. Fans are the people who enable these kinds of events. Fans are the reason big companies show growing interest to eSports events. Fans are the people buying the high quality stream tickets. Thinking that this tournament is just about deciding who to give the prize money to ... well it makes no sense.
Audio - Obviously a huge let down. If there was anything positive, I loved the audience screaming and applauding, especially when there were so many banelings. Day[9] likes shouting, to get himself and the audience pumped up, and there's nothing wrong with that, but the lack of sound level limiters did kill my ears. Not gonna delve any deeper than that.
Interviews - As most of them were with Korean players with a translator they weren't exactly fluid. The questions asked by the interviewers were kinda ok, though they could definitely be improved. If the interviewers have to be pretty faces (I'm not saying that's a bad thing), there should at least be someone to prepare the questions for them.
Time wasting - I'd watch hype videos twice that long if the players could get their booths and settings all done during them, not after them. Seriously though, even LosirA could get his stuff ready during one of those videos. Also, playing Nerd Alert songs or just any other entertaining and Starcraft related from Youtube during technical difficulties or major breaks IS COOL. Dreamhack did it. Do it.
Casters and observer - Observing was sloppy. Gretorp and Incontrol are yelling their lungs out when a Command Center is almost about to go down, but the viewers can't see the HP bar? It's almost as if it's exciting, but then again, it isn't. I think all the casters are very good at their job. BUT. Tastosis flew out from Korea, and Day[9] is there too, being his own awesome self, why not have them do more casting? The FANS go crazy for Dan, Nick and Sean. The fans.
On July 09 2011 22:59 GhostKorean wrote: Does anyone know what the "Musical Act and Entertainment" on Sunday will be?
I would guess...
after listening to some of the music during breaks.
If you don't recognize the music, you might wanna replay Starcraft and Broodwar campaigns. I loved it - very appropriate for the event. Far better than some licensed radio pop that you would expect from these kind of tournaments.
That said, there's obviously a lot NASL needs to do to improve, but I won't repeat what everyone before me has said, even though their points are spot on. I would like to balance in that all the negativity here is because the fans are passionate about NASL and want it to succeed - if we didn't, we wouldn't care enough to flame.
But yea. Keep some backup solutions in the future in case things go tits-up. Keep the crowd and viewers entertained while you get the bugs ironed out.
On July 09 2011 23:09 Butigroove wrote: When did teamliquid become a huge bitchfest?
I remember when we DIDN'T EVEN HAVE STREAMS, JUST LIVE REPORTS. and people are raging about the sound quality of a fucking epic live event that obviously did their best to accommodate the tens of thousands of viewers?
At one point I would brag about the superiority of the Starcraft community to my friends. We used to be a bastion of excellence... now all I see is the immaturity and false sense of entitlement of spoiled children who grew up with silver spoons under their metaphorical tongues.
I'm sorry if this doesn't belong in this thread, but honestly the thing that brought down the level of this event the most for me, were the hordes of kiddies complaining about minor annoyances. It isn't just this event either. MLG, TSL, and GSL are all plagued in one way or another by this bullshit.
I really really hate this "argument". "Because 2000 years ago there were no computers and people were starving you should really be happy about anything today!"... Critism is legit. And in this thread there is very very constructive and reasonable critics like from jibba and kmh. And if you advertise the shit out of a league and hype those finals through the roof and want attract more viewers the expectations are naturally growing. They are trying to deliver a product that obbviously was 1-2 steppes above their capability. If they would have said beforehand that they are unsure if they can set up something big like this and we all should see this as a test run for their first big event there would be way less bitching but then they would have had a problem to charge money for this.
the stream [beyond the audio issue] was fine for me at all times i streamed it from 11pm uk time, to when the last gg of mc/boxer i thought that it was nicely done, in terms of how it was setup atleast
a best of 5 would have been nicer though, and take up more time rather than the fillers the fillers were my main gripe, i think there was more filler than gameplay, or it felt like it the booths did kind of look like prison cells though
also why did each player come in and setup after their videos? so we get 20 min of filler video then we wait for them to get comfortable? it would be better to introduce them in person, then show their road to the finals as they get settled in
On July 09 2011 23:09 Butigroove wrote: When did teamliquid become a huge bitchfest?
I remember when we DIDN'T EVEN HAVE STREAMS, JUST LIVE REPORTS. and people are raging about the sound quality of a fucking epic live event that obviously did their best to accommodate the tens of thousands of viewers?
At one point I would brag about the superiority of the Starcraft community to my friends. We used to be a bastion of excellence... now all I see is the immaturity and false sense of entitlement of spoiled children who grew up with silver spoons under their metaphorical tongues.
I'm sorry if this doesn't belong in this thread, but honestly the thing that brought down the level of this event the most for me, were the hordes of kiddies complaining about minor annoyances. It isn't just this event either. MLG, TSL, and GSL are all plagued in one way or another by this bullshit.
I really really hate this "argument". "Because 2000 years ago there were no computers and people were starving you should really be happy about anything today!"... Critism is legit. And in this thread there is very very constructive and reasonable critics like from jibba and kmh. And if you advertise the shit out of a league and hype those finals through the roof and want attract more viewers the expectations are naturally growing. They are trying to deliver a product that obbviously was 1-2 steppes above their capability. If they would have said beforehand that they are unsure if they can set up something big like this and we all should see this as a test run for their first big event there would be way less bitching but then they would have had a problem to charge money for this.
@tooPrime - wow great video. That video is amazingly relevant. I really wonder how many of these criticizers have ever organized (or accomplished) anything in their life. If I had to guess, 99% of negative nancies here have 0 experience in the matter. For those that do, they know that with events anything can/will happen. NASL did a solid job here and apart from the small hiccup with the sound during MC's interview, I really did not have any complaints for Day1.
Have more than two booths so that the next set of players can set up while the other game is going on. The main reason for the downtime was waiting for the booth to be empty, new player set it up, doing the intros, etc. etc. etc. If you want a tournament to be run smoothly you need ample computers. 4 Booths! (Make them bigger)
On July 10 2011 00:05 PrimeTimey wrote: Have more than two booths so that the next set of players can set up while the other game is going on. The main reason for the downtime was waiting for the booth to be empty, new player set it up, doing the intros, etc. etc. etc. If you want a tournament to be run smoothly you need ample computers. 4 Booths! (Make them bigger)
On July 10 2011 00:05 PrimeTimey wrote: Have more than two booths so that the next set of players can set up while the other game is going on. The main reason for the downtime was waiting for the booth to be empty, new player set it up, doing the intros, etc. etc. etc. If you want a tournament to be run smoothly you need ample computers. 4 Booths! (Make them bigger)
We have 2 warmup areas for players.
That's not what he said, though. He is talking about the time it takes for every player to set up in the booth. If they could do that while the first match is still going on, there would be much less downtime.
Though I'm not sure that's why you had so much downtime. Honestly, I have no idea why.
On July 10 2011 00:05 PrimeTimey wrote: Have more than two booths so that the next set of players can set up while the other game is going on. The main reason for the downtime was waiting for the booth to be empty, new player set it up, doing the intros, etc. etc. etc. If you want a tournament to be run smoothly you need ample computers. 4 Booths! (Make them bigger)
We have 2 warmup areas for players.
That's not what he said, though. He is talking about the time it takes for every player to set up in the booth. If they could do that while the first match is still going on, there would be much less downtime.
Though I'm not sure that's why you had so much downtime. Honestly, I have no idea why.
The only real solution to that is having dedicated computers for each player. They tried that at Blizzcon and still got a lot of downtime. There's always downtime. There's downtime at MLG too.
I swear there are people on the internet who exist solely to post this tired video
lol. First time I ever post that video in my life and I get this guy but I also get another guy who hasn't seen it before and loves it.
I willing to give NASL the benefit of the doubt by the way. I think people forget you couldn't even watch Dallas and half of the best games weren't even shown. Even the GSTL takes FOREVER if you watch it live. Some of the qq is legit but others (booth isn't pretty enough! Tastosis can't live with me and be my best friend) not so much.
On July 09 2011 23:09 Butigroove wrote: When did teamliquid become a huge bitchfest?
I remember when we DIDN'T EVEN HAVE STREAMS, JUST LIVE REPORTS. and people are raging about the sound quality of a fucking epic live event that obviously did their best to accommodate the tens of thousands of viewers?
At one point I would brag about the superiority of the Starcraft community to my friends. We used to be a bastion of excellence... now all I see is the immaturity and false sense of entitlement of spoiled children who grew up with silver spoons under their metaphorical tongues.
I'm sorry if this doesn't belong in this thread, but honestly the thing that brought down the level of this event the most for me, were the hordes of kiddies complaining about minor annoyances. It isn't just this event either. MLG, TSL, and GSL are all plagued in one way or another by this bullshit.
I really really hate this "argument". "Because 2000 years ago there were no computers and people were starving you should really be happy about anything today!"... Critism is legit. And in this thread there is very very constructive and reasonable critics like from jibba and kmh. And if you advertise the shit out of a league and hype those finals through the roof and want attract more viewers the expectations are naturally growing. They are trying to deliver a product that obbviously was 1-2 steppes above their capability. If they would have said beforehand that they are unsure if they can set up something big like this and we all should see this as a test run for their first big event there would be way less bitching but then they would have had a problem to charge money for this.
I swear there are people on the internet who exist solely to post this tired video
Humanity does not progress by being "happy" with what you've got. On the contrary. By being critical you force progress. ^^
I will not bash to much on the NASL and most of my complaints have been comprehensively covered in this here thread.
I will quote this paragraph because i have had the same impression ever since the league was announced:
On July 09 2011 21:11 Gurblechev wrote:The problem here is that NASL is concerned only with giving their friends employment, rather than actually hiring people who can do the job. In the regular season they even turned down offers from skilled people who were willing to do these jobs for free.
I do not doubt the good intentions of the people involved, i question their quality and the managements objectivity in employing the staff.
NASL needs (i know, i'm an internet know it all^^) to make drastic changes in it's staff and i do not think that will happen.
What does the tree icon (or w/e it is) the OP has mean? o0
ontopic: yeh it wasn't the best first day ever, but atleast they are trying it. They don't have as much employees as MLG and Dreamhack and it's their first time. I will still support them and I'm season 2 and the rest of the finals will be awesome.
EPT
