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Good lord. It always amazes me how deliberately blind people can be. It seems like every thread is plagued with people who continue to argue and rant and raveand make idiotic assertions and assumptions about things for 20+ pages after all questions have already been answered.
While I do find the rule curious (there are definitely good arguments to be made both for it and against it), the fact that people are saying NASL should ignore it and is horrible for enforcing it are hilarious. Criticism for letting Strelok in at all, given the rule regarding that, however, I think is entirely justified. NASL wouldn't be in this position if they hadn't made the exception in the first place, and I think it's turned out poorly for everyone - Not just Strelok and the NASL, but also the fans and other competitors who were in the same position as Strelok, but WEREN'T given an exception to compete.
And while I feel like it probably clouded the issue somewhat (since people here apparently have no reading comprehension skills)I also fully support Xeris' first comment to Naniwa about there being repercussions for publically bashing the league you're competing in. Naniwa saying what he did when he thought he was out, and then complaining when he thoughy he had another chance at the money, is also pretty classy.
In regards to the comparisons to IdrA, has he ever publically bashed, say, the TSL? I haven't been here a long time, so I actually don't know. I know he has a history of butting heads with mods here, but I think if he were to go on record saying he thought the TSL was trash, he might not get an invite back. But then again, he might, I don't know.
Anyway, I personally don't like anyone from the open bracket getting into the finals, because as someone already said, it would be SUPREMELY disappointing to watch players compete for two months, and invest yourself in them, and then see someone come in out of the open bracket to win it all, so I do hope that changes for season two. In the meantime, however, good luck to everyone still in it.
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On July 03 2011 01:11 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2011 01:08 tsuxiit wrote:
That blows. I thought a requirement to entering the tournament was actually having a valid visa? As we said at the start of the season, Strelok was the 'risk' player we accepted, because his team Mouz assured us that he could get a VISA on time. Obviously, this is exactly the reason we had this rule, so now all the people complaining why we didn't invite certain players know why >_>! It's obviously very frustrating for us because we put about 30 hours of work preparing material for Strelok and now it's gone to waste, and we might not have time to prepare stuff for aLive. It's really frustrating for Strelok as well because he tried everything he could to get the VISA. Also sucks for DarkForcE for obvious reasons. It just sucks for everyone except aLive, great for him! =D
I distinctly remember Nightend declaring that he could get a Visa on time without any problem but that you demanded proof of a visa at the time of signing of the contract which was too short a time for him. What part am I not understanding?
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On July 04 2011 06:12 amiGoZoR wrote:thanks for what? causing troubles? i still cant understand why NightEnd couldnt play and Strelok could ...
How many more times does xeris have to state it.
THey only wanted to take ONE at risk player, they determined they wanted strelok over Nightend, both were risk players, so only one was given an invite.
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On July 06 2011 11:14 SMD wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2011 06:12 amiGoZoR wrote:thanks for what? causing troubles? i still cant understand why NightEnd couldnt play and Strelok could ... How many more times does xeris have to state it. THey only wanted to take ONE at risk player, they determined they wanted strelok over Nightend, both were risk players, so only one was given an invite.
I dont remember him ever saying in the original application thread that he only wanted to take one "at risk" player please show me because the discussion in that went on for pages too. What he said was that all the other players had proven that they could get a visa Nightend hadnt.
Also Xeris is Nighends manager is he not? Although after all this happened to my memory
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I would guess the LA timezone (whatever that is PDT or something like that..) since the finals are there
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On July 03 2011 01:15 GTR wrote:
is there a reason why white-ra manages to enter america and not brat_ok/strelok? D:
SPECIAL TAKTIKS!!! xD
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Poor strelok 
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On July 03 2011 20:06 BurningSera wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote:
why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me. this +1, or whoever in the league as the righteous replacement. i cant believe that NASL gave a free pass for an outsider directly into the grand finals matches. i am sure NASL can give us a nice (made up) reason but i feel sorry for the players who have spent so many hours participated in NASL so far. would love to hear the 'real' reason tho 
I hope you are trolling.
It has been repeated many MANY times that they just followed the already existing rules. That's the ''real'' reason.
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Just so it is clear, here's what Xeris said about Strelok and his VISA in March:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=203988¤tpage=207#4122
As for NightEnd -- once again: Romania is a "high risk" country, as are Russia, Ukraine, and Poland (just because Romania is in the EU doesn't mean they have a VISA waiver program... which they don't, which makes it automatically more difficult to get a VISA to the US). We didn't want to have multiple "high risk" players in the league due to obvious reasons. What if more than 1 of them qualifies for the finals, can't get a VISA, and don't show up? That ruins our live event completely.
White-Ra has demonstrated an ability to come to the US, BRAT_OK showed us his VISA, as did Strelok. So we were really left with two players (MaNa and NightEnd) from "high risk" countries. We only wanted to select 1; we chose MaNa. As I said multiple times before -- I should have explicitly stated the need for a VISA. I mistakenly thought it was obvious that people outside the US would ask about it considering the contract states that you must guarantee your ability to enter the US. It was my fault for not explicitly stating that they needed a VISA.
So my question for Xeris, how could you have seen Strelok's VISA when he hadn't even applied for it?
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On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote:
why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
You dissed NASL on NASL's stream if I recall correctly. I'd rather have Alive as a fan.
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On July 06 2011 22:47 MisterFred wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote:
why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me. You dissed NASL on NASL's stream if I recall correctly. I'd rather have Alive as a fan.
Uhm, if that diss in any way affected the decision then NASL is a joke organization. Either you follow the rules or disquilify Naniwa (which they haven't) for breaking some kind of rule. You don't arbitrarily pick a replacement player based on preference by the people in charge. That said, as I've understood it alive is the correct backup player so I don't have a problem with that but Naniwa's comments regarding the NASL should have nothing to do with it.
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On July 03 2011 01:11 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2011 01:08 tsuxiit wrote:
That blows. I thought a requirement to entering the tournament was actually having a valid visa? As we said at the start of the season, Strelok was the 'risk' player we accepted, because his team Mouz assured us that he could get a VISA on time. Obviously, this is exactly the reason we had this rule, so now all the people complaining why we didn't invite certain players know why >_>! It's obviously very frustrating for us because we put about 30 hours of work preparing material for Strelok and now it's gone to waste, and we might not have time to prepare stuff for aLive. It's really frustrating for Strelok as well because he tried everything he could to get the VISA. Also sucks for DarkForcE for obvious reasons. It just sucks for everyone except aLive, great for him! =D
This is the problem that bothers me. You deliberately broke your own rules to allow strelok in, so you've proven your "flexibility" with the rule system already - it seems odd to me that you're now suddenly deciding to use "THESE ARE THE RULES" as the blanket excuse for everything. Don't get me wrong - I highly advocate following the set rules and I feel NASL has dealt with this current issue well, but since strelok's presence was a breach in the first place, the entire chain of event's gotten corrupt. The argument about following the rules is flawed, as the rules were broken originally in this chain.
Realise that this is a breach of trust from NASL. Either you treat the rules as vague guidelines, or you follow the rules without exeption. Anything in between, and the entire organization is far too unreliable to be taken seriously or professionally.
This is of course not the end of the world or the end of NASL, but please bear in mind that if you want to use rule-thumping as an argument for descision making, then make sure to actually follow those rules. I know strelok is an excellent player and a respected, long-standing member of the BW and SC2 community, but that doesn't make breaking the rules on his behalf acceptable.
As for the case of naniwa..
Show no respect, and you'll get none in return. NASL participation is not a FSM-given right - it's a privilege. If you cannot stay professional, then you have no room in a professional league. I completely agree with xeris' comment about him.
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On July 06 2011 22:54 nihlon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 22:47 MisterFred wrote:On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote:
why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me. You dissed NASL on NASL's stream if I recall correctly. I'd rather have Alive as a fan. Uhm, if that diss in any way affected the decision then NASL is a joke organization. Either you follow the rules or disquilify Naniwa (which they haven't) for breaking some kind of rule. You don't arbitrarily pick a replacement player based on preference by the people in charge. That said, as I've understood it alive is the correct backup player so I don't have a problem with that but Naniwa's comments regarding the NASL should have nothing to do with it.
Never said it does (although I can see the mistake). Obviously, I have no knowledge of NASL's decision making. All my info about this comes from this thread, and seems on the up and up. I'm just happy with the result as a fan.
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In my experience, even getting a Visa in America can be a problem. It took me nearly 2 months just to get an appointment for a Visa to go to Spain.
I imagine that procuring a Visa is even more difficult for him given the tension between the two countries, as someone pointed out. Also, if he was unable to make an earlier appointment or the staff themselves canceled and postponed his Visa appointment, this very well may not have been his fault.
My regards to Strelok on this issue, because obtaining a Visa sucks wherever you are and I'm betting he and the NASL did everything they could. I don't think this is a matter of poor planning (on his part anyway).
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I feel like it would be unprofessional for NASL to discriminate somehow against Naniwa just because he said unfavorable things about it. But I don't really know much about the issue so I could have a completely uninformed opinion on the matter. There's probably (hopefully) more to it, as I'd like to think that NASL is more professional and reasonable than that.
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On July 06 2011 22:41 Hammurabio wrote:Just so it is clear, here's what Xeris said about Strelok and his VISA in March: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=203988¤tpage=207#4122As for NightEnd -- once again: Romania is a "high risk" country, as are Russia, Ukraine, and Poland (just because Romania is in the EU doesn't mean they have a VISA waiver program... which they don't, which makes it automatically more difficult to get a VISA to the US). We didn't want to have multiple "high risk" players in the league due to obvious reasons. What if more than 1 of them qualifies for the finals, can't get a VISA, and don't show up? That ruins our live event completely.
White-Ra has demonstrated an ability to come to the US, BRAT_OK showed us his VISA, as did Strelok. So we were really left with two players (MaNa and NightEnd) from "high risk" countries. We only wanted to select 1; we chose MaNa. As I said multiple times before -- I should have explicitly stated the need for a VISA. I mistakenly thought it was obvious that people outside the US would ask about it considering the contract states that you must guarantee your ability to enter the US. It was my fault for not explicitly stating that they needed a VISA. So my question for Xeris, how could you have seen Strelok's VISA when he hadn't even applied for it?
Yeah, that's a good question. the logic here doesn't make much sense
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On July 10 2011 02:28 HolyArrow wrote:
I feel like it would be unprofessional for NASL to discriminate somehow against Naniwa just because he said unfavorable things about it. But I don't really know much about the issue so I could have a completely uninformed opinion on the matter. There's probably (hopefully) more to it, as I'd like to think that NASL is more professional and reasonable than that.
They didn't. They followed what they had outlined in their rules from the beginning. However, if they had done it the other way, as in take someone from the regular season as replacement, the spot would go to Ace, not Naniwa first.
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Naniwa about there being repercussions for publically bashing the league you're competing in. Naniwa saying what he did when he thought he was out, and then complaining when he thoughy he had another chance at the money, is also pretty classy.
I dont like to respond to comments because of the large amount of people who despise me for old reasons.. but i will try to clear this up, I simply had no idea whether i was out or not. and my comment was FAR before i was 100% to be out of the playoff. FAR. I will always stand for what i say, and if i make mistakes i will try to make it good again.
My reason for not being in NASL the next season is mainly the defloss against strelok, where i was here the entire time but the NASL still giving me defloss . the NASL realised their mistake and thereafter gave me +-0 As in the match was never played, but strelok got still +2. which changed the entire outcome of the group. I said what i did to make the NASL better themselves, that its not ok just beacuse you have a insane prizepool to treat the players however they please. I never meant anything bad or trashtalk anyone, i simply want all tournaments to improve and make amends for their mistakes. Also i am going to korea and i will focus on a new step in my career there,in which i think would be very bad to include NASL because its played at such late times.
my point being : I dont mean to be hostile towards the NASL. i just want them to improve. might be a bit hazy in the story but i am very tired right now. will correct if there is any mistakes.
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EPT
